Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[BaronOfHair]

A woman already has it easier to begin with when getting laid, even if on the spectrum. The fact a woman is way less likely to be on the spectrum in the first place is yet another way they have it easier.

Easier BY COMPARISON. Either way we slice it though, both sexes have to learn how to spark, and then maintain attraction. Ruminating on how much easier someone else's life must be is another recipe for stagnation

 

[corrector]

Kissing was sometimes a peck; sometimes tongue.

As for oral, let's just say she lived up to the "fat girls give good head" stereotype.

She is fat? Now I see why you both stayed in contact.

 

[GoodMan32]

She is fat? Now I see why you both stayed in contact.

Yeah. She's fat.

Interestingly, she ended up dating yet another skinny white man after we broke up (she's Latina)

 

[BackInTheGame78]

My point is: Why should men in general bother with trying to become good at picking up a woman, when we could get the ladies to start throwing themselves at us if only we made one small sacrifice (a temporary protest against making moves on women)? Again, if every straight available man did this, the ladies would start throwing themselves at us within 9 months.

That's pretty empowering to think the male population could reverse such an ingrained part of western culture in less than a year with one tiny step. As an analogy, imagine if NFL players were offered to make their 7 figure salaries to simply sit in the stands watching football. Why would they want to put in the effort to play the game when they could get the same salary to sit in the stands?

As for being stuck, even though I've had some successes, I'm still (for the most part) stuck exactly where I was at 15 (despite being 33). In fact, sometimes I have flashbacks to my 15 year old self (and realize just how little I've changed)

You might as well ask yourself why should a man act like a man and not just act like a woman.

That's essentially what you are wanting to do, act like a woman.

Because your role as a man is to make things happen and lead. Not sit around wondering what is happening and following whoever is the first person that shows any interest like a puppy dog.

You really are lost man. I don't know where you come up with these nonsensical ideas but they need to stop.

I mean what's next, are you going to wonder why people live on land and don't live underneath the water too? Essentially you are taking something that is the essence of being a man and asking why you have to have it.

You don't. Go be a woman if you choose.

Haven't changed since you were 15...there is a shocker. I could have told you that just by the way you think and your mindset. Guess what? When you are 80 you can say the same thing unless you choose to do something about it.

And assuredly that isn't trying to figure out how to not be a man.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

No surprise. I read somewhere that back in caveman days, only 1 out of 17 men were able to reproduce (simply because the cavewomen weren't into the vast majority of men).

Then society structured itself so that a woman needed a man financially, thus enabling the average Joe to get a woman. Eastern cultures still do this to some degree (arranged marriage).

Western culture, on the other hand, is gradually reverting back to caveman times (where a woman can be more choosy).

As a man on another forum told me "The average man will never be sexually exciting to a woman."

That's because the average man chooses to be average. Women view that as pathetic.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

My point is: Why should men in general bother with trying to become good at picking up a woman, when we could get the ladies to start throwing themselves at us if only we made one small sacrifice (a temporary protest against making moves on women)?

Because there are too many wimps that would never have the backbone for such an endeavour and they would only support that idea to get all their 'competition' out of the way so they could foist their attentions on the confused womenfolk.

However, it's not necessary for all men to act aloof in order to help women make better decisions in what men to choose.

Women will choose and pursue the man worthy of their favours, the man whose attention they crave, whose validation they hunger for.

They already know what they like.

And you're not it.

 

[BaronOfHair]

You really are lost man. I don't know where you come up with these nonsensical ideas but they need to stop

Earlier in this thread, I pointed out to OP that him showing up on a forum dedicated to self-development, asking for aid, then "Yes, but..."ing every last ounce of counsel he receives is, quite frankly, disrespectful to those of us he shares cyberspace with. The message hasn't taken

 

[BaronOfHair]

No surprise. I read somewhere that back in caveman days, only 1 out of 17 men were able to reproduce (simply because the cavewomen weren't into the vast majority of men).

Then society structured itself so that a woman needed a man financially, thus enabling the average Joe to get a woman. Eastern cultures still do this to some degree (arranged marriage).

Western culture, on the other hand, is gradually reverting back to caveman times (where a woman can be more choosy).

As a man on another forum told me "The average man will never be sexually exciting to a woman."

As we discussed here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...u-get-a-longer-term-girlfriend.275835/page-11

Settling for a life of banality was a viable(If unhappy) option for our forefathers, who lived in eras where upward mobility was far more uncommon. 'Dem days are gone now. The modern man has to either ascend the food chain, or be devoured by the carnivores among us

 

[GoodMan32]

You might as well ask yourself why should a man act like a man and not just act like a woman.

That's essentially what you are wanting to do, act like a woman.

Because your role as a man is to make things happen and lead. Not sit around wondering what is happening and following whoever is the first person that shows any interest like a puppy dog.

You really are lost man. I don't know where you come up with these nonsensical ideas but they need to stop.

I mean what's next, are you going to wonder why people live on land and don't live underneath the water too? Essentially you are taking something that is the essence of being a man and asking why you have to have it.

You don't. Go be a woman if you choose.

Haven't changed since you were 15...there is a shocker. I could have told you that just by the way you think and your mindset. Guess what? When you are 80 you can say the same thing unless you choose to do something about it.

And assuredly that isn't trying to figure out how to not be a man.

From a logical standpoint, it makes more sense for a woman to pursue a man (than vice versa).

Any given woman is far more likely to get a "yeah" when asking out any given man than any given man is to get a "yeah" when asking out any given woman.

Put another way: A basketball coach who wins a majority of games is better than a basketball coach who loses the vast majority of games.

Having the man make the move on the woman (rather than vice versa) is like saying the coach who loses way more often is somehow better than the winning coach.

I've mentioned on this forum that there's a male coworker who's talked to me a bit about the ladies. An analogy I gave him: "If a basketball coach loses more than 90% of games, the coach won't have a job next season. In fact, couldn't you say the coach picked the wrong line of work?"

(I get turned down more than 90% of the time; that's where I got the numbers for the analogy I gave the coworker)

The coworker said "Yeah, I suppose a coach who loses more than 90% of games picked the wrong line of work."

 

[BackInTheGame78]

From a logical standpoint, it makes more sense for a woman to pursue a man (than vice versa).

Any given woman is far more likely to get a "yeah" when asking out any given man than any given man is to get a "yeah" when asking out any given woman.

Put another way: A basketball coach who wins a majority of games is better than a basketball coach who loses the vast majority of games.

Having the man make the move on the woman (rather than vice versa) is like saying the coach who loses way more often is somehow better than the winning coach.

I've mentioned on this forum that there's a male coworker who's talked to me a bit about the ladies. An analogy I gave him: "If a basketball coach loses more than 90% of games, the coach won't have a job next season. In fact, couldn't you say the coach picked the wrong line of work?"

(I get turned down more than 90% of the time; that's where I got the numbers for the analogy I gave the coworker)

The coworker said "Yeah, I suppose a coach who loses more than 90% of games picked the wrong line of work."

Just stop. Enough with this dumb ass logic.

Human evolution and instincts doesn't give a crap about what you "think" should happen. And trust me if you have that little confidence in yourself you would show it in your body language and they wouldn't pursue you anyway.

Throughout the entire animal kingdom males are the ones who put on displays and fight for females. Why do you think humans would be different? We aren't.

Either choose to play by the rules of nature or don't. No loss to me, one less thing to worry about...one less thing to worry about.

 

[GoodMan32]

You might as well ask yourself why should a man act like a man and not just act like a woman.

That's essentially what you are wanting to do, act like a woman.

Because your role as a man is to make things happen and lead. Not sit around wondering what is happening and following whoever is the first person that shows any interest like a puppy dog.

You really are lost man. I don't know where you come up with these nonsensical ideas but they need to stop.

I mean what's next, are you going to wonder why people live on land and don't live underneath the water too? Essentially you are taking something that is the essence of being a man and asking why you have to have it.

You don't. Go be a woman if you choose.

Haven't changed since you were 15...there is a shocker. I could have told you that just by the way you think and your mindset. Guess what? When you are 80 you can say the same thing unless you choose to do something about it.

And assuredly that isn't trying to figure out how to not be a man.

We wouldn't have to pick the first woman that comes our way under my proposed plan by the way (as there will undoubtedly be more women who come our way).

One more thing I should point out: Certain cultures (particularly India) are set up so that a man gets an arranged wife, thus removing the need for him to chase a woman.

Does that mean men in India aren't real men? Using your logic, yeah (I, on the other hand, obviously think Indian men are real men)

 

[BackInTheGame78]

We wouldn't have to pick the first woman that comes our way under my proposed plan by the way (as there will undoubtedly be more women who come our way).

One more thing I should point out: Certain cultures (particularly India) are set up so that a man gets an arranged wife, thus removing the need for him to chase a woman.

Does that mean men in India aren't real men? Using your logic, yeah (I, on the other hand, obviously think Indian men are real men)

Your proposed plan will not ever come to fruition.

Why would a woman pick someone who is afraid to be a man and afraid to be rejected by women so they didn't even try?

Women love men with confidence. You have near zero confidence. You can attempt to trick women any way you want to but eventually they find out sooner rather than later.

The fact you somehow don't realize is utterly mind boggling.

Yes... there is the solution. Start forcing people to marry someone they have no desire to due to wealth or power.

That's really worked out well in the past...I mean if you want her to be cheating on you left and right,then sure...go for it.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

From a logical standpoint, it makes more sense for a woman to pursue a man (than vice versa).

From an autistic logical standpoint, that would make sense. However, dating is about feelings and those supersede your 'logic', so you will just have to roll up your sleeves and start taking initiative.

We wouldn't have to pick the first woman that comes our way under my proposed plan

Your proposed autistic plan that nobody in their right mind would follow because AGAIN the woman's feelings supersede your notions of how things 'should be', and your 'proposed plan' is centred around convenience, insecurity and fear of failure that is giving you crippling anxiety that will make delusional wish fulfilment look 'logical'.

One more thing I should point out: Certain cultures (particularly India) are set up so that a man gets an arranged wife, thus removing the need for him to chase a woman.

You don't 'get' an arranged wife. Your father will have to buy you one.
And let's be reasonable here, for another father to make his daughter marry someone like you, you might have to settle for some warthog or your father must have deep, deep pockets.

I think maybe we need an 'Autistic Don Juan Discussion' subforum where we patiently explain to our autistic members that although their mothers claimed that the world will adapt itself to their autism, the cruel and unjust universe doesn't give an airborne copulation about the mentally divergent, who will just have to adapt or die.

 

[BaronOfHair]

One more thing I should point out: Certain cultures (particularly India) are set up so that a man gets an arranged wife, thus removing the need for him to chase a woman

The grass, as is so often the case, ain't much greener on the opposite side of the septic tank

There's no getting around the rigorous, and sometimes frustrating, work of getting one's own house in order, GM. Even if you decide to move, you're going to have to remodel and then keep up your new home. It'll behoove you to stop manufacturing excuses, and getting to work, ASAP. There's no more ideal time than the present

 

[BaronOfHair]

I think maybe we need an 'Autistic Don Juan Discussion' subforum where we patiently explain to our autistic members that although their mothers claimed that the world will adapt itself to their autism, the cruel and unjust universe doesn't give an airborne copulation about the mentally divergent, who will just have to adapt or die.

The activist mindset("We need to overhaul The Racist/Sexist/Homophobic/Ableist/Gynocentric/Classist/Globalist System, then replace it with a utopia free of all prejudice and bias, where everyone enjoys perfect social equality". This is very different from "Here are some pragmatic measures we can pursue, so as to uplift those who are in need")has poisoned every nook and cranny of our civilization

It's very unusual to NOT encounter someone who harbors a mentality similar to that of The OP on a daily basis

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

It's very unusual to NOT encounter someone who harbors a mentality similar to that of The OP on a daily basis

Here they are still quite rare, but the spoiled and entitled are on the rise.

 

[SW15]

the cavewomen weren't into the vast majority of men).

Western culture, on the other hand, is gradually reverting back to caveman times (where a woman can be more choosy).

Yes. This sounds like recent times to me.

Then society structured itself so that a woman needed a man financially, thus enabling the average Joe to get a woman. Eastern cultures still do this to some degree (arranged marriage).

The middle of the bell curve males do better in this type of environment.

 

[GoodMan32]

Because there are too many wimps that would never have the backbone for such an endeavour and they would only support that idea to get all their 'competition' out of the way so they could foist their attentions on the confused womenfolk.

However, it's not necessary for all men to act aloof in order to help women make better decisions in what men to choose.

Women will choose and pursue the man worthy of their favours, the man whose attention they crave, whose validation they hunger for.

They already know what they like.

And you're not it.

Umm, women generally don't pursue. Even if a woman is into a man, she'll (in most cases) throw clues at him that she wants him to make a move on her. It's rare for her to make the move.

My proposed society (where men stop making moves entirely) would lead to women making moves on any man she's into. And yeah, I guarantee this would lead to women making moves on me (Even with the current status quo, I'm confident there are women who throw clues at me, in the hopes I act on the clues. I just fail to read the clues)

 

[GoodMan32]

Your proposed plan will not ever come to fruition.

Why would a woman pick someone who is afraid to be a man and afraid to be rejected by women so they didn't even try?

Women love men with confidence. You have near zero confidence. You can attempt to trick women any way you want to but eventually they find out sooner rather than later.

The fact you somehow don't realize is utterly mind boggling.

Yes... there is the solution. Start forcing people to marry someone they have no desire to due to wealth or power.

That's really worked out well in the past...I mean if you want her to be cheating on you left and right,then sure...go for it.

I'm not sure if "afraid" is the right word. A better word to describe me is "realist."

Making a move on a woman in person has only ever gotten me one success: A sexless date with an extremely strange classmate during college (Calling her "strange" is an understatement. She carried around a blanket and stuffed animal).

Every other woman I've expressed interest in the traditional way (in person) has been repulsed by me.

Why should I bother with a method that's never gotten me anything more than a sexless date with a fat college girl who carried around a blanket and a stuffed animal?

My goal isn't to trick a woman into thinking I'm confident. My goal is to trick a woman into thinking I'm neurotypical (Which I can only do for so long. My spectrum mannerisms came out within 4 days after my last date)

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

It's rare for her to make the move.

No, for you it's rare that women make a move.

My proposed society (where men stop making moves entirely) would lead to

You have to stop living in your imaginary utopia. You can write a fiction novel about it, like The Handmaid's Tale, to get that out of your head, but you have to understand the difference between fantasy and reality.