Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[BeExcellent]

a woman who joined this forum? how did you and your husband meet each other? i assume you and him both started dating each other wile in your 20s?

Yeah. But no. Second husband. We met at a crowded live music venue several years ago. He is tall at 6'3" and trim athletic, was in the music industry for a while so long hair, dresses like an LA rocker and very handsome. He comes across aloof & arrogant. Women do approach him because of his looks and his style. He also is an elite/pro level athlete in an extreme sport.

I was the only woman at the venue that night he had eyes for. And it's quite cute when he tells the story of how we met & how he arranged for proximity to me so we could meet.

But he's ASD for sure. In the 80s as a teen secondary to emotional outbursts and behavioral difficulties he was diagnosed as ADHD (as many people on the spectrum were incorrectly labeled ADHD before "Asperger's" entered the clinical lexicon.) Since then the clinical manuals recognize that Aspergers is actually a high functioning form of autism and so Aspergers is no longer the correct term, its now ASD, or autism spectrum disorder, because it diverse and wide ranging.

The hallmark of "high functioning" ASD is typically high IQ coupled with low EQ. If that is the case it will be pervasive across all interactions with others. This is true with my husband. It affects his work relationships (as a software engineer), in his family of origin, in his sport community, and in his romantic relationships. He takes things literally (concrete, rigid, black/white thinking) and does not "get" idioms or figures of speech if he doesn't already have a particular idiom committed to memory and is awkward in small talk. On our first meet this was apparent to me, and our first date was conversationally very difficult until I probed enough to get him talking about his sport, and then he talked endlessly about that.

I found SS almost ten years ago. At that time I was relatively recently divorced from first husband & dating a man whose ex wife was fully BPD crazy, and researching that led me here.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Yeah. But no. Second husband. We met at a crowded live music venue several years ago. He is tall at 6'3" and trim athletic, was in the music industry for a while so long hair, dresses like an LA rocker and very handsome. He comes across aloof & arrogant. Women do approach him because of his looks and his style. He also is an elite/pro level athlete in an extreme sport.

I was the only woman at the venue that night he had eyes for. And it's quite cute when he tells the story of how we met & how he arranged for proximity to me so we could meet.

But he's ASD for sure. In the 80s as a teen secondary to emotional outbursts and behavioral difficulties he was diagnosed as ADHD (as many people on the spectrum were incorrectly labeled ADHD before "Asperger's" entered the clinical lexicon.) Since then the clinical manuals recognize that Aspergers is actually a high functioning form of autism and so Aspergers is no longer the correct term, its now ASD, or autism spectrum disorder, because it diverse and wide ranging.

The hallmark of "high functioning" ASD is typically high IQ coupled with low EQ. If that is the case it will be pervasive across all interactions with others. This is true with my husband. It affects his work relationships (as a software engineer), in his family of origin, in his sport community, and in his romantic relationships. He takes things literally (concrete, rigid, black/white thinking) and does not "get" idioms or figures of speech if he doesn't already have a particular idiom committed to memory and is awkward in small talk. On our first meet this was apparent to me, and our first date was conversationally very difficult until I probed enough to get him talking about his sport, and then he talked endlessly about that.

I found SS almost ten years ago. At that time I was relatively recently divorced from first husband & dating a man whose ex wife was fully BPD crazy, and researching that led me here.

You’re brutally honest an I appreciate that from you.

 

[GoodMan32]

9 months is the "run-time" from the time I started dating my ex-wife (ie taking her out with me), to the time we stopped talking to each other.

The marriage, wedding, was within that 9 month frame. The marriage itself lasted only about 2-3 months.

Similarly, I had an ex-gf in 2012 where the run-time (ie time we met from online dating site to abrupt and total break-up / no contact - was 9 months as well).

With me it's like 9 months movies because it's very foreign with me to have a relationship or be with a woman for extended time like that and seems out of joint with the rest of my life. Like it is in another dimension almost.



Why would you be embarassed to admit that.

Did she send you a special song that would highlight the height of the relationship?

My ex-gf send me this song to express her love towards me:

My ex-wife's song is this (ie she choose it for the wedding and I heard it on the radio when she popped back into the store):

Did your "ex" have a song to highlight her love for you within the 8 month relationship?




Did you go on hard no-contact afterwards or did you remain friends?



I understand what you mean by "right next to each other". That was referenced in my now locked thread about Cringe Lunch/Social Experiment. I sat next to her a couple of times. This was someone at work. It is like I had to ask her if I could just sit next to her because I got jealous of another guy who did and I wanted to try it too. Well, I tried at least, even if it didn't work out or go anywhere.

In terms of my real exes, we had allot of close time together (ie ex wife, we were in the same bed together and were intimate, etc... backseat of car or whatever we did we were next to each other a bit to observe that "next to each other" like in your case, or even my ex-gf, as allot of time was spent together in the backseat of my car.

However, after being in a decade dry spell, yeah, that did sting this year with the "sitting next to a woman" thing when I tried that this year.
It helps if you are in a relationship with someone when you do that. Not the manager of a different division of the company. Now things have got awkard with that manager to the nth degree. Like you said, don't crap where you eat.



It doesn't sound like your relationship came apart because something went wrong and the bottom just came off, like both of mine has. It sounds like it drifted apart. That could be bad too in its own right, but at least it does not feel like a plane crash.

Sometimes we don't count allot of things. I have a "relationship" with a Haitian girl since 2008/2009-2020 where she believes I"m her boyfriend and I'm not giving her strong enough messages that we are not in a relationship but she's like obsessed with thinking that there is something (ie last time I was physically with her was in 2013, which is a lenght of time since 2020). There was a penpal like relationship with someone I had in Guyana since 2008-2015 where we met in NYC. Again, it's not something I "count".

The things that usually "count" is if you really like the girl and plan to marry her and she's presentable enough to be feel proud that you have her. Since 2020 forward, I'd say I'm more in a hard dry-spell since there is no girl secretly in the background like it was the case in the 2010s.

Yikes. I had heard you discuss your marriage before, yet I never had any idea your marriage was that short-lived.

The fact I'm pretty sure (in retrospect) I didn't mean it is why I'm embarrassed to admit I used the L word with the young woman I dated for 8 months. There are certain things you do for those you love, that I wouldn't do for anyone (which makes me question if I've ever loved anyone, even my own family).

To answer your question, no, the young woman I dated for 8 months never had a special song for me. We didn't have any overlap in our musical tastes (because English is her 2nd language).

For that matter, the girl I had the 10 month online relationship with also had English as a 2nd language (I say girl because she was 18-19 at the time). I got her into some English-language music though. We had a song for each other: Harbor by Cute Is What We Aim For

Guess who else had English as a 2nd language? The last woman I had free sex with.

I'm noticing a pattern. I tend to do better with those whose 2nd language is English. I'm pretty sure some of my socially awkward comments get lost in translation (so they don't realize how socially awkward I am).

As for your question of what my contact level was like after the breakup with the 8 monther, we spoke sporadically for the next 18 months or so.

Quite the story you have about the Haitian girl.

 

[GoodMan32]

Yeah. But no. Second husband. We met at a crowded live music venue several years ago. He is tall at 6'3" and trim athletic, was in the music industry for a while so long hair, dresses like an LA rocker and very handsome. He comes across aloof & arrogant. Women do approach him because of his looks and his style. He also is an elite/pro level athlete in an extreme sport.

I was the only woman at the venue that night he had eyes for. And it's quite cute when he tells the story of how we met & how he arranged for proximity to me so we could meet.

But he's ASD for sure. In the 80s as a teen secondary to emotional outbursts and behavioral difficulties he was diagnosed as ADHD (as many people on the spectrum were incorrectly labeled ADHD before "Asperger's" entered the clinical lexicon.) Since then the clinical manuals recognize that Aspergers is actually a high functioning form of autism and so Aspergers is no longer the correct term, its now ASD, or autism spectrum disorder, because it diverse and wide ranging.

The hallmark of "high functioning" ASD is typically high IQ coupled with low EQ. If that is the case it will be pervasive across all interactions with others. This is true with my husband. It affects his work relationships (as a software engineer), in his family of origin, in his sport community, and in his romantic relationships. He takes things literally (concrete, rigid, black/white thinking) and does not "get" idioms or figures of speech if he doesn't already have a particular idiom committed to memory and is awkward in small talk. On our first meet this was apparent to me, and our first date was conversationally very difficult until I probed enough to get him talking about his sport, and then he talked endlessly about that.

I found SS almost ten years ago. At that time I was relatively recently divorced from first husband & dating a man whose ex wife was fully BPD crazy, and researching that led me here.

You're one of the few posters on here that's seen what I look like. After seeing some images of me, I think I recall you saying a decent amount of gals might be into my style.

And here's the thing: There have been a decent amount of instances where I think a woman might have been into me (but I wasn't 100% sure). I guess what I'm saying is it's possible I'm like your husband (where I attract the ladies despite being on the spectrum).

Personally, I think lumping Asperger's in with autism was a step in the wrong direction. Just like there's a difference between HIV and full-blown AIDS, there's a difference between Asperger's and full-blown autism.

I am as you described (high IQ, low EQ). One interesting thing, however: Even though I generally have a hard time socially, there are times when I find myself getting frustrated with others' inability to read my social cues.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Did she send you a special song that would highlight the height of the relationship?

My ex-gf send me this song to express her love towards me:

My ex-wife's song is this (ie she choose it for the wedding and I heard it on the radio when she popped back into the store):

Did your "ex" have a song to highlight her love for you within the 8 month relationship?

We had a song for each other: Harbor by Cute Is What We Aim For

At long last, what's really obstructing both of your prospects for success hath been identified... God fell asleep at the wheel, and put you both in male bodies. Fork over the cash for a sex change, C and GM. All of your ills will be cured instantaneously

 

[BeExcellent]

You're one of the few posters on here that's seen what I look like. After seeing some images of me, I think I recall you saying a decent amount of gals might be into my style.

And here's the thing: There have been a decent amount of instances where I think a woman might have been into me (but I wasn't 100% sure). I guess what I'm saying is it's possible I'm like your husband (where I attract the ladies despite being on the spectrum).

Personally, I think lumping Asperger's in with autism was a step in the wrong direction. Just like there's a difference between HIV and full-blown AIDS, there's a difference between Asperger's and full-blown autism.

I am as you described (high IQ, low EQ). One interesting thing, however: Even though I generally have a hard time socially, there are times when I find myself getting frustrated with others' inability to read my social cues.

Yes. My husband experiences similar frustration at times & often with me as I'm his day in day out life partner. He also became, along the way, accustomed to digging in his heels within his rigid perceptions and taking a "my way or the highway" approach. This I attribute to two things. 1. Placating behavior by his mother to head off the melt downs (rather than establishing firm behavioral boundaries to avoid it in the first place)....and 2. Women go from placating him to blowing up at him/escalating things/fear losing him. This has taught him that being an ass hole is an effective way to navigate life.....except that acting like an ass hole ends up isolating you from others.

I am NOT afraid to lose him, I do not placate, and I am as brutally honest with him as I am about him. And he remains in denial about the ASD, because that means (in his mind) that there is something "wrong" with him, and that was not acceptable to him or his family (mom has been very acridly resistant to the ASD label because she finds ADHD a more normative label -but she is coming to understand better I think over time because she is very well aware of the actual behaviors he exhibits.)

If he digs in or fixates or starts up with a melt down, I often remove myself to de escalate or let him go if he removes himself. We regroup once he/we have calmed down & can discuss rationally. He knows I love him but will not tolerate BS, and he knows other men would jump at the chance to get close to me. The ass hole behavior is Ok but only to a point and I do not put up with bully behavior. He knows that & also knows that I love him irrespective of the ASD. I chose him knowing what I was dealing with.

Here's the thing. ASD people are just dandy with the isolation and so if someone else is "too much drama", (and normal human interactions are regularly considered "drama"), then they isolate themselves and alienate others through their behavior....often this is subconscious because it reflects nuerodverse brain function. And that's just fine with ASD people unless/until they realize that the isolation & alienation robs them of another human need, which is for meanimgful relationship & connection.

Quite the irony, right? That struggle is at the core what OP struggles with. And he finds the messiness of human relationships bewildering & disconcerting.

This is why therapy is so important. To create greater self awareness, other awareness, and to understand perspectives other than one's own.

 

[GoodMan32]

Yes. My husband experiences similar frustration at times & often with me as I'm his day in day out life partner. He also became, along the way, accustomed to digging in his heels within his rigid perceptions and taking a "my way or the highway" approach. This I attribute to two things. 1. Placating behavior by his mother to head off the melt downs (rather than establishing firm behavioral boundaries to avoid it in the first place)....and 2. Women go from placating him to blowing up at him/escalating things/fear losing him. This has taught him that being an ass hole is an effective way to navigate life.....except that acting like an ass hole ends up isolating you from others.

I am NOT afraid to lose him, I do not placate, and I am as brutally honest with him as I am about him. And he remains in denial about the ASD, because that means (in his mind) that there is something "wrong" with him, and that was not acceptable to him or his family (mom has been very acridly resistant to the ASD label because she finds ADHD a more normative label -but she is coming to understand better I think over time because she is very well aware of the actual behaviors he exhibits.)

If he digs in or fixates or starts up with a melt down, I often remove myself to de escalate or let him go if he removes himself. We regroup once he/we have calmed down & can discuss rationally. He knows I love him but will not tolerate BS, and he knows other men would jump at the chance to get close to me. The ass hole behavior is Ok but only to a point and I do not put up with bully behavior. He knows that & also knows that I love him irrespective of the ASD. I chose him knowing what I was dealing with.

Here's the thing. ASD people are just dandy with the isolation and so if someone else is "too much drama", (and normal human interactions are regularly considered "drama"), then they isolate themselves and alienate others through their behavior....often this is subconscious because it reflects nuerodverse brain function. And that's just fine with ASD people unless/until they realize that the isolation & alienation robs them of another human need, which is for meanimgful relationship & connection.

Quite the irony, right? That struggle is at the core what OP struggles with. And he finds the messiness of human relationships bewildering & disconcerting.

This is why therapy is so important. To create greater self awareness, other awareness, and to understand perspectives other than one's own.

Here are some of the instances where I've found myself frustrated with others failing to read my social cues.

-This woman who works in the building where I live will go on long political soapboxes, even after I give her a social cue that I don't want to listen to her soapbox. I've seen her do the same thing with another resident too (even after the resident gave a social cue).

-A woman I trained at work back in 2020 would do certain behaviors I would tell her not to do. When I shared the full story on some other internet communities, it was suggested the trainee was into me, thought the whole thing was in good fun (in a flirtatious way), and wasn't aware I was genuinely upset (and genuinely wanted her to stop).

It sounds like your husband feels forced to mask his ASD mannerisms (so he doesn't lose you). That sounds exhausting to me. It's exhausting enough having to mask at work/in public. Having to mask at home would push me over the edge.

Incidentally (to build upon your point about how a lot of men would jump at the opportunity to get close to you), the longest in-person relationship I had (the 8 month relationship I mentioned on a prior post) was with a 4/10 fattie (even though I myself am a 7/10). Keeping a woman with comparable looks to me interested for an extended amount of time is next to impossible (as there's no reason for her to tolerate a 7/10 ASD man when she'd easily be able to get a 7/10 normal man). It's no surprise the woman I had the longest success with was a woman with hardly any other options.

You're 100% correct when you say those of us on the spectrum are totally fine with isolation. In high school, I remember a popular guy mocking the fact I barely associated with any classmates outside of school. What he failed to realize, however, was: I preferred the isolation (I even turned down a potential chance to go to prom with a girl twice, different girl each year).

Even as an adult, with the woman I had my last date with (nearly a year ago), it took all of four days after our date to reach the point where continuing to talk to her was too much stress to be worth it (so I recommended we stop speaking).

As you point out, the isolation robs us of meaningful relationships.

One thing I find surprising regarding your husband is the fact he was in the music industry. The music industry sounds miserable for the typical man on the spectrum (partying, late night shows, etc)

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Yeah. But no. Second husband. We met at a crowded live music venue several years ago. He is tall at 6'3" and trim athletic, was in the music industry for a while so long hair, dresses like an LA rocker and very handsome. He comes across aloof & arrogant. Women do approach him because of his looks and his style. He also is an elite/pro level athlete in an extreme sport.

I was the only woman at the venue that night he had eyes for. And it's quite cute when he tells the story of how we met & how he arranged for proximity to me so we could meet.

But he's ASD for sure. In the 80s as a teen secondary to emotional outbursts and behavioral difficulties he was diagnosed as ADHD (as many people on the spectrum were incorrectly labeled ADHD before "Asperger's" entered the clinical lexicon.) Since then the clinical manuals recognize that Aspergers is actually a high functioning form of autism and so Aspergers is no longer the correct term, its now ASD, or autism spectrum disorder, because it diverse and wide ranging.

The hallmark of "high functioning" ASD is typically high IQ coupled with low EQ. If that is the case it will be pervasive across all interactions with others. This is true with my husband. It affects his work relationships (as a software engineer), in his family of origin, in his sport community, and in his romantic relationships. He takes things literally (concrete, rigid, black/white thinking) and does not "get" idioms or figures of speech if he doesn't already have a particular idiom committed to memory and is awkward in small talk. On our first meet this was apparent to me, and our first date was conversationally very difficult until I probed enough to get him talking about his sport, and then he talked endlessly about that.

I found SS almost ten years ago. At that time I was relatively recently divorced from first husband & dating a man whose ex wife was fully BPD crazy, and researching that led me here.

yeah, nevertheless, i assume the relationship started like how they normally do

 

[BeExcellent]

Here are some of the instances where I've found myself frustrated with others failing to read my social cues.

-This woman who works in the building where I live will go on long political soapboxes, even after I give her a social cue that I don't want to listen to her soapbox. I've seen her do the same thing with another resident too (even after the resident gave a social cue).

-A woman I trained at work back in 2020 would do certain behaviors I would tell her not to do. When I shared the full story on some other internet communities, it was suggested the trainee was into me, thought the whole thing was in good fun (in a flirtatious way), and wasn't aware I was genuinely upset (and genuinely wanted her to stop).

It sounds like your husband feels forced to mask his ASD mannerisms (so he doesn't lose you). That sounds exhausting to me. It's exhausting enough having to mask at work/in public. Having to mask at home would push me over the edge.

Incidentally (to build upon your point about how a lot of men would jump at the opportunity to get close to you), the longest in-person relationship I had (the 8 month relationship I mentioned on a prior post) was with a 4/10 fattie (even though I myself am a 7/10). Keeping a woman with comparable looks to me interested for an extended amount of time is next to impossible (as there's no reason for her to tolerate a 7/10 ASD man when she'd easily be able to get a 7/10 normal man). It's no surprise the woman I had the longest success with was a woman with hardly any other options.

You're 100% correct when you say those of us on the spectrum are totally fine with isolation. In high school, I remember a popular guy mocking the fact I barely associated with any classmates outside of school. What he failed to realize, however, was: I preferred the isolation (I even turned down a potential chance to go to prom with a girl twice, different girl each year).

Even as an adult, with the woman I had my last date with (nearly a year ago), it took all of four days after our date to reach the point where continuing to talk to her was too much stress to be worth it (so I recommended we stop speaking).

As you point out, the isolation robs us of meaningful relationships.

One thing I find surprising regarding your husband is the fact he was in the music industry. The music industry sounds miserable for the typical man on the spectrum (partying, late night shows, etc)

Well my husband used alcohol and drugs to deal with his social anxiety and help him mask. Early on when he attended social functions with me he drank to adjust....then he at times would drink too much. That is much better now. He also liked being the center of attention when he was performing and then would be naturally aloof and difficult to approach away from the stage. I didn't know him then & would have blown him off had I met him during that phase. I didn't date substance users.

I actually really love the "real" him. He's a very funny, silly, kinda goofy dude that I adore. He's thoughtful often. He loves me deeply. He is incredibly smart & musically gifted (sax & vocals) but he got disappointed/disillusioned navigating the music business. He was alternatively too much of a d ick and too naieve about the business at the same time.

He masks constantly to cope with life and always has from a very young age. He knows he's different but hates the reality of the condition and its label. He is learning that the marriage is a safe environment where he doesn't have to constantly hide behind his sunglasses (to avoid eye contact) or be Joe Cool ass hole. That its Ok to express deep emotion (ASD people feel deeply & intensely - but they may not always know what to do or how to deal with that emotion.....) he's been in tears before in the dark in a heated conversation, but that's weak and unmanly in his programming so he tries hard to hide that degree of emotive expression from me. To not show how much he cares. Baby steps.

We are both objectively attractive people no doubt. I could attract a nuerotypical man certainly at an 8 or 9, which is where many men rate me, even at my age. I have in the past attracted desirable men, no problem. I require a certain edge and I am naturally aloof myself. I am also very smart & find many men b o r i n g.

I am cerebral and find many men banal and without finesse. My husband appeals to me where it counts and yes he's complicated. I like complicated and I'm aware of my own pathos.

You, OP must stop having analysis paralysis and simply ask out the women that interest you. My husband did not bother with chit chat over text. His first text he asked me out to brunch on a Sunday. Straight up. I liked that. It came across as decisive. I knew he liked me and I liked that because I was curious about him.

Get out of your logical interior of your mind and ask women out. The action will help you reset your foregone conclusions. That is one thing my husband did because he had learned to do it. Shoot your shot & see what happens.

 

[BeExcellent]

yeah, nevertheless, i assume the relationship started like how they normally do

We met. He asked for my social media contacts. Both left with our respective friend groups that night.

Next day he texted and asked me out for that day. I said yes. Had a first date, he kept asking & I'd say yes.

Two months in he asked me to be his exclusive GF. Two years after that we married.

So yeah. Pretty normal.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

We met. He asked for my social media contacts. Both left with our respective friend groups that night.

Next day he texted and asked me out for that day. I said yes. Had a first date, he kept asking & I'd say yes.

Two months in he asked me to be his exclusive GF. Two years after that we married.

So yeah. Pretty normal.

yup why am i not surprised, yeah, i know that i've spoken to at least 2 men with autism, they said they sadly never had a girlfriend until one his early 30s, and one his mid-30s, so yeah, its a lonely journey for many men in the world, especially men with autism. Obviously, women have the luxury because they are normally never at risk of being chronically alone and single like that.

 

[GoodMan32]

Well my husband used alcohol and drugs to deal with his social anxiety and help him mask. Early on when he attended social functions with me he drank to adjust....then he at times would drink too much. That is much better now. He also liked being the center of attention when he was performing and then would be naturally aloof and difficult to approach away from the stage. I didn't know him then & would have blown him off had I met him during that phase. I didn't date substance users.

I actually really love the "real" him. He's a very funny, silly, kinda goofy dude that I adore. He's thoughtful often. He loves me deeply. He is incredibly smart & musically gifted (sax & vocals) but he got disappointed/disillusioned navigating the music business. He was alternatively too much of a d ick and too naieve about the business at the same time.

He masks constantly to cope with life and always has from a very young age. He knows he's different but hates the reality of the condition and its label. He is learning that the marriage is a safe environment where he doesn't have to constantly hide behind his sunglasses (to avoid eye contact) or be Joe Cool ass hole. That its Ok to express deep emotion (ASD people feel deeply & intensely - but they may not always know what to do or how to deal with that emotion.....) he's been in tears before in the dark in a heated conversation, but that's weak and unmanly in his programming so he tries hard to hide that degree of emotive expression from me. To not show how much he cares. Baby steps.

We are both objectively attractive people no doubt. I could attract a nuerotypical man certainly at an 8 or 9, which is where many men rate me, even at my age. I have in the past attracted desirable men, no problem. I require a certain edge and I am naturally aloof myself. I am also very smart & find many men b o r i n g.

I am cerebral and find many men banal and without finesse. My husband appeals to me where it counts and yes he's complicated. I like complicated and I'm aware of my own pathos.

You, OP must stop having analysis paralysis and simply ask out the women that interest you. My husband did not bother with chit chat over text. His first text he asked me out to brunch on a Sunday. Straight up. I liked that. It came across as decisive. I knew he liked me and I liked that because I was curious about him.

Get out of your logical interior of your mind and ask women out. The action will help you reset your foregone conclusions. That is one thing my husband did because he had learned to do it. Shoot your shot & see what happens.

Getting drunk to cope is out of the question for me. I go out of my way to stop myself before I get drunk. I like to be in control. That being said, your husband isn't the first instance where I've heard of a socially awkward man using alcohol to cope.

I am like your husband where I like to hide behind sunglasses. Eye contact is difficult for me. A recent post on this forum suggested that ASD has become over-diagnosed. Which is possibly true. In my case though, my struggle with eye contact is a surefire clue that I really am on the spectrum (and not simply garden variety socially awkward).

Unfortunately, my struggle with eye contact has gotten me viewed as an easy target at times (as it's viewed as a sign of weakness). But that's another story.

On the topic of asking women out, after thinking on it, I made an interesting breakthrough: It isn't the rejection itself I fear. The idiocy feeling of being wrong about a woman's interest is what I fear.

Incidentally, that's why I'd be more likely to ask out a woman I don't know (and am highly unlikely to ever run into again) vs a woman I know (and regularly come into contact with). With the woman I don't know, I have no reason to believe she's into me (thus no reason to feel like an idiot if it turns out I'm not her type).

In fact, I've noticed the more convinced I am a woman is into me, the less likely I am to make a move on her (Because the more convinced I am she's into me, the more of an idiot I'd feel like if it turns out she's not into me. Plus, if I regularly cross paths with her, I'd then be reminded of what an idiot I am every time we cross paths).

This is one area where I draw a hard line. No matter how much anyone tells me I shouldn't feel like an idiot, I can't help but feel like an idiot if I turn out to be wrong about a woman being into me.

 

[GoodMan32]

yup why am i not surprised, yeah, i know that i've spoken to at least 2 men with autism, they said they sadly never had a girlfriend until one his early 30s, and one his mid-30s, so yeah, its a lonely journey for many men in the world, especially men with autism. Obviously, women have the luxury because they are normally never at risk of being chronically alone and single like that.

Well-said. I belong to a spectrum forum where we're prohibited from pointing out the fact a woman on the spectrum has it a lot easier than men on the spectrum (Why are we prohibited from pointing out this fact? Because a few female whiners on that forum get triggered when we point out the fact they have it easy)

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Well-said. I belong to a spectrum forum where we're prohibited from pointing out the fact a woman on the spectrum has it a lot easier than men on the spectrum (Why are we prohibited from pointing out this fact? Because a few female whiners on that forum get triggered when we point out the fact they have it easy)

yup, even a woman who i spoke to, she told me she has been a member of autism forums, sites for years, and she said, the number of lonely men being single and wanting a girlfriend always outweighed by a huge margin, the number of lonely women being single and wanting a boyfriend, should be obvious.

However, it possible that the users on those sites are male-dominated.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I am like your husband where I like to hide behind sunglasses. Eye contact is difficult for me

Don't switch the blade on the guy in shades, oh no. Were we still in '84

Such a quirk might have appeared really badass

 

[BaronOfHair]

I belong to a spectrum forum...

Get off that forum. Heavy immersion in a milieu where reinforcing and cheering on each other's dysfunction is prioritized has clearly devastated your capacity to reason like a sane person

 

[corrector]

Yikes. I had heard you discuss your marriage before, yet I never had any idea your marriage was that short-lived.

Excuse me if I'm a bit cynical on here. When you go through a 9 yard effort, see that $ 20K was spent on a wedding, and see someone turn viciously on you then it sort of gives the idea that nobody is really safe to deal with.

The fact I'm pretty sure (in retrospect) I didn't mean it is why I'm embarrassed to admit I used the L word with the young woman I dated for 8 months. There are certain things you do for those you love, that I wouldn't do for anyone (which makes me question if I've ever loved anyone, even my own family).

At least you dated someone for 8 months that you felt confident enough to say that you loved her, which means you must have achieved some sort of state of mental health and connection dealing her to be confident enough to say that in the first place and be willing to take that risk.

Everyone can say that they don't mean it once a relationship is over. That's convenient to say as you are all exes.

To answer your question, no, the young woman I dated for 8 months never had a special song for me. We didn't have any overlap in our musical tastes (because English is her 2nd language).

For that matter, the girl I had the 10 month online relationship with also had English as a 2nd language (I say girl because she was 18-19 at the time). I got her into some English-language music though. We had a song for each other: Harbor by Cute Is What We Aim For

Guess who else had English as a 2nd language? The last woman I had free sex with.

I'm noticing a pattern. I tend to do better with those whose 2nd language is English. I'm pretty sure some of my socially awkward comments get lost in translation (so they don't realize how socially awkward I am).

Okay, that is your niche then. I guess this must be the most productive exchange since it might go somewhere and help you.

You need to focus on your niche and focus on women who don't know how to speak English then, or speak English as a second language.
If this is the case, then you have one up ahead of me since I don't even have a niche per see that I'm aware of.

As for your question of what my contact level was like after the breakup with the 8 monther, we spoke sporadically for the next 18 months or so.

That wasn't so bad. With my break-ups the girl is gone. My ex-wife did follow up concerning aspects of the divorce process. However, beyond that there was no other meaningful contact. Guess you are doing better in that department. How did speaking sporadically help you? Did it make a softer landing for the break-up rather than it being an ugly and nasty thing?

Quite the story you have about the Haitian girl.

Ironically one of the most stable of relationships. If I committed with her properly, she would have been with me through thick and think. However she's on meds and is a Schiophrenia and has paranoid delusional thoughts that I'm cheating on her or something like that. I did end things nasty with her because she would not move on (ie change number, refuse to respond to texts or letters from her, etc....).

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Excuse me if I'm a bit cynical on here. When you go through a 9 yard effort, see that $ 20K was spent on a wedding, and see someone turn viciously on you then it sort of gives the idea that nobody is really safe to deal with.



At least you dated someone for 8 months that you felt confident enough to say that you loved her, which means you must have achieved some sort of state of mental health and connection dealing her to be confident enough to say that in the first place and be willing to take that risk.

Everyone can say that they don't mean it once a relationship is over. That's convenient to say as you are all exes.



Okay, that is your niche then. I guess this must be the most productive exchange since it might go somewhere and help you.

You need to focus on your niche and focus on women who don't know how to speak English then, or speak English as a second language.
If this is the case, then you have one up ahead of me since I don't even have a niche per see that I'm aware of.



That wasn't so bad. With my break-ups the girl is gone. My ex-wife did follow up concerning aspects of the divorce process. However, beyond that there was no other meaningful contact. Guess you are doing better in that department. How did speaking sporadically help you? Did it make a softer landing for the break-up rather than it being an ugly and nasty thing?



Ironically one of the most stable of relationships. If I committed with her properly, she would have been with me through thick and think. However she's on meds and is a Schiophrenia and has paranoid delusional thoughts that I'm cheating on her or something like that. I did end things nasty with her because she would not move on (ie change number, refuse to respond to texts or letters from her, etc....).

he feels reluctant to call that woman he dated for 8 months because it was a sexless relationship, yeah to me and lots of people, a relationship without sex is just a friendship.

 

[corrector]

he feels reluctant to call that woman he dated for 8 months because it was a sexless relationship, yeah to me and lots of people, a relationship without sex is just a friendship.

But I don't think sex is the only form of expression of intimacy within a relationship, especially if it is a Christian (ie as in devout Christians) relationship. You have french kissing, making out, petting, dry humping. Honestly, some of the most intimate experiences were aggressively making out with an ex-gf, in contrast to say having sex with ex-wife. Even hugging a woman with me is intimate (ie holding a woman close and hugging for a lenght of time until you feel warmth filling in your guts), or a lady touching my elbow and then hand after a nice hug, etc... none of these things are related to sex. Sex, just sticking it into an orifice (vag/mouth/whatever), can become glorified masturbation.

That being said, even if we assume an argument of friendship, how do you have an 8 month friendship? Do you hear people saying they have a xyz year friendship? Friends are normally friends for a very long time and stay in contact. What about the escorts he is having sex with who are also his friend? That's definitely not a relationship.

 

[Chow Mein]

The key is actually to master puberty that took over every boy's mind at the age of 12-13. Our minds literally get hijacked to start procreating with women. Before that, everyone boy was an alpha. Unfortunately, some boys don't get past the puberty hump women mindset cause the hormones are that strong. We really are suppose to grow out of during those years, but due to the western world, boys are kept from sex until they are 16-21 depending on the culture standards. That's a very long time being abstinent. This isn't discussed enough in the medical or psychological field due to said feminist standards. Meanwhile, women can start having sex as soon as they want. Society doesnt even punish them that much for it. It's pretty messed up.

I guess everyone may have different experiences. I’ve learned the word S|ut before pimp…