Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[BackInTheGame78]

From a logical standpoint, it makes more sense for a woman to pursue a man (than vice versa).

Any given woman is far more likely to get a "yeah" when asking out any given man than any given man is to get a "yeah" when asking out any given woman.

Put another way: A basketball coach who wins a majority of games is better than a basketball coach who loses the vast majority of games.

Having the man make the move on the woman (rather than vice versa) is like saying the coach who loses way more often is somehow better than the winning coach.

I've mentioned on this forum that there's a male coworker who's talked to me a bit about the ladies. An analogy I gave him: "If a basketball coach loses more than 90% of games, the coach won't have a job next season. In fact, couldn't you say the coach picked the wrong line of work?"

(I get turned down more than 90% of the time; that's where I got the numbers for the analogy I gave the coworker)

The coworker said "Yeah, I suppose a coach who loses more than 90% of games picked the wrong line of work."

Just stop. Enough with this dumb ass logic.

Human evolution and instincts doesn't give a crap about what you "think" should happen. And trust me if you have that little confidence in yourself you would show it in your body language and they wouldn't pursue you anyway.

Throughout the entire animal kingdom males are the ones who put on displays and fight for females. Why do you think humans would be different? We aren't.

Either choose to play by the rules of nature or don't. No loss to me, one less thing to worry about...one less thing to worry about.

 

[GoodMan32]

You might as well ask yourself why should a man act like a man and not just act like a woman.

That's essentially what you are wanting to do, act like a woman.

Because your role as a man is to make things happen and lead. Not sit around wondering what is happening and following whoever is the first person that shows any interest like a puppy dog.

You really are lost man. I don't know where you come up with these nonsensical ideas but they need to stop.

I mean what's next, are you going to wonder why people live on land and don't live underneath the water too? Essentially you are taking something that is the essence of being a man and asking why you have to have it.

You don't. Go be a woman if you choose.

Haven't changed since you were 15...there is a shocker. I could have told you that just by the way you think and your mindset. Guess what? When you are 80 you can say the same thing unless you choose to do something about it.

And assuredly that isn't trying to figure out how to not be a man.

We wouldn't have to pick the first woman that comes our way under my proposed plan by the way (as there will undoubtedly be more women who come our way).

One more thing I should point out: Certain cultures (particularly India) are set up so that a man gets an arranged wife, thus removing the need for him to chase a woman.

Does that mean men in India aren't real men? Using your logic, yeah (I, on the other hand, obviously think Indian men are real men)

 

[BackInTheGame78]

We wouldn't have to pick the first woman that comes our way under my proposed plan by the way (as there will undoubtedly be more women who come our way).

One more thing I should point out: Certain cultures (particularly India) are set up so that a man gets an arranged wife, thus removing the need for him to chase a woman.

Does that mean men in India aren't real men? Using your logic, yeah (I, on the other hand, obviously think Indian men are real men)

Your proposed plan will not ever come to fruition.

Why would a woman pick someone who is afraid to be a man and afraid to be rejected by women so they didn't even try?

Women love men with confidence. You have near zero confidence. You can attempt to trick women any way you want to but eventually they find out sooner rather than later.

The fact you somehow don't realize is utterly mind boggling.

Yes... there is the solution. Start forcing people to marry someone they have no desire to due to wealth or power.

That's really worked out well in the past...I mean if you want her to be cheating on you left and right,then sure...go for it.

 

[BaronOfHair]

One more thing I should point out: Certain cultures (particularly India) are set up so that a man gets an arranged wife, thus removing the need for him to chase a woman

The grass, as is so often the case, ain't much greener on the opposite side of the septic tank

There's no getting around the rigorous, and sometimes frustrating, work of getting one's own house in order, GM. Even if you decide to move, you're going to have to remodel and then keep up your new home. It'll behoove you to stop manufacturing excuses, and getting to work, ASAP. There's no more ideal time than the present

 

[BaronOfHair]

I think maybe we need an 'Autistic Don Juan Discussion' subforum where we patiently explain to our autistic members that although their mothers claimed that the world will adapt itself to their autism, the cruel and unjust universe doesn't give an airborne copulation about the mentally divergent, who will just have to adapt or die.

The activist mindset("We need to overhaul The Racist/Sexist/Homophobic/Ableist/Gynocentric/Classist/Globalist System, then replace it with a utopia free of all prejudice and bias, where everyone enjoys perfect social equality". This is very different from "Here are some pragmatic measures we can pursue, so as to uplift those who are in need")has poisoned every nook and cranny of our civilization

It's very unusual to NOT encounter someone who harbors a mentality similar to that of The OP on a daily basis

 

[SW15]

the cavewomen weren't into the vast majority of men).

Western culture, on the other hand, is gradually reverting back to caveman times (where a woman can be more choosy).

Yes. This sounds like recent times to me.

Then society structured itself so that a woman needed a man financially, thus enabling the average Joe to get a woman. Eastern cultures still do this to some degree (arranged marriage).

The middle of the bell curve males do better in this type of environment.

 

[GoodMan32]

Because there are too many wimps that would never have the backbone for such an endeavour and they would only support that idea to get all their 'competition' out of the way so they could foist their attentions on the confused womenfolk.

However, it's not necessary for all men to act aloof in order to help women make better decisions in what men to choose.

Women will choose and pursue the man worthy of their favours, the man whose attention they crave, whose validation they hunger for.

They already know what they like.

And you're not it.

Umm, women generally don't pursue. Even if a woman is into a man, she'll (in most cases) throw clues at him that she wants him to make a move on her. It's rare for her to make the move.

My proposed society (where men stop making moves entirely) would lead to women making moves on any man she's into. And yeah, I guarantee this would lead to women making moves on me (Even with the current status quo, I'm confident there are women who throw clues at me, in the hopes I act on the clues. I just fail to read the clues)

 

[GoodMan32]

Your proposed plan will not ever come to fruition.

Why would a woman pick someone who is afraid to be a man and afraid to be rejected by women so they didn't even try?

Women love men with confidence. You have near zero confidence. You can attempt to trick women any way you want to but eventually they find out sooner rather than later.

The fact you somehow don't realize is utterly mind boggling.

Yes... there is the solution. Start forcing people to marry someone they have no desire to due to wealth or power.

That's really worked out well in the past...I mean if you want her to be cheating on you left and right,then sure...go for it.

I'm not sure if "afraid" is the right word. A better word to describe me is "realist."

Making a move on a woman in person has only ever gotten me one success: A sexless date with an extremely strange classmate during college (Calling her "strange" is an understatement. She carried around a blanket and stuffed animal).

Every other woman I've expressed interest in the traditional way (in person) has been repulsed by me.

Why should I bother with a method that's never gotten me anything more than a sexless date with a fat college girl who carried around a blanket and a stuffed animal?

My goal isn't to trick a woman into thinking I'm confident. My goal is to trick a woman into thinking I'm neurotypical (Which I can only do for so long. My spectrum mannerisms came out within 4 days after my last date)

 

[corrector]

Yeah. She's fat.

Interestingly, she ended up dating yet another skinny white man after we broke up (she's Latina)

That must have stung how they move on so quickly.

 

[GoodMan32]

From an autistic logical standpoint, that would make sense. However, dating is about feelings and those supersede your 'logic', so you will just have to roll up your sleeves and start taking initiative.


Your proposed autistic plan that nobody in their right mind would follow because AGAIN the woman's feelings supersede your notions of how things 'should be', and your 'proposed plan' is centred around convenience, insecurity and fear of failure that is giving you crippling anxiety that will make delusional wish fulfilment look 'logical'.


You don't 'get' an arranged wife. Your father will have to buy you one.
And let's be reasonable here, for another father to make his daughter marry someone like you, you might have to settle for some warthog or your father must have deep, deep pockets.

I think maybe we need an 'Autistic Don Juan Discussion' subforum where we patiently explain to our autistic members that although their mothers claimed that the world will adapt itself to their autism, the cruel and unjust universe doesn't give an airborne copulation about the mentally divergent, who will just have to adapt or die.

Again, I'm simply a realist. Taking the initiative fails for me nearly 100% of the time.

As for my mom, don't get me started. My mom never told me the world would cater to my ASD. Quite the opposite. In fact, my mom made some hurtful comments about my struggles with the ladies during my teen years:

"You'll probably never get kissed."

"When you were born, I thought I'd be fighting the girls off you at this age."

Then here's the icing on the cake: The summer between high school and college, a middle-aged man shot up his gym because he was upset at his celibacy. My mom said he sounded like an older version of me (And for the record, no, I would never go on a shooting)

 

[GoodMan32]

No, for you it's rare that women make a move.


You have to stop living in your imaginary utopia. You can write a fiction novel about it, like The Handmaid's Tale, to get that out of your head, but you have to understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

Umm, isn't the general consensus on here that the man has to make the move on the woman?

Yet here you are telling me women make a move on plenty of men.

 

[GoodMan32]

That must have stung how they move on so quickly.

The breakup was my decision. So it didn't really sting for me.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I'm not sure if "afraid" is the right word. A better word to describe me is "realist."

Making a move on a woman in person has only ever gotten me one success: A sexless date with an extremely strange classmate during college (Calling her "strange" is an understatement. She carried around a blanket and stuffed animal).

Every other woman I've expressed interest in the traditional way (in person) has been repulsed by me.

Why should I bother with a method that's never gotten me anything more than a sexless date with a fat college girl who carried around a blanket and a stuffed animal?

My goal isn't to trick a woman into thinking I'm confident. My goal is to trick a woman into thinking I'm neurotypical (Which I can only do for so long. My spectrum mannerisms came out within 4 days after my last date)

A better word to use is "delusional excuse maker".

Well, that's 3 words but much more apropo.

 

[corrector]

The breakup was my decision. So it didn't really sting for me.

The first break up was also my decision, but it did not make a difference with me in terms of impact. It stung for a solid year.

If it didn't sting, then it means you weren't that into her, when you broke up. Or it was not a "logical break-up" with someone you love.

 

[BaronOfHair]

As for my mom, don't get me started. My mom never told me the world would cater to my ASD. Quite the opposite. In fact, my mom made some hurtful comments about my struggles with the ladies during my teen years:

"You'll probably never get kissed."

"When you were born, I thought I'd be fighting the girls off you at this age."

Then here's the icing on the cake: The summer between high school and college, a middle-aged man shot up his gym because he was upset at his celibacy. My mom said he sounded like an older version of me (And for the record, no, I would never go on a shooting)

We may have just discovered the origins of your fixation on pursuing older women ("I'll express my rage at Mummy, by bedding women who are old enough to be my own mother... I'll f-ck her over metaphorically in the present, since I can't go back in time and smack her in the mouth for real, as punishment for disrespecting me"), and you're determination to continue manufacturing excuses for not pursuing beautiful young women... You've been re-indoctrinating yourself with the messages you received in childhood

It's imperative to run all of this by your shrink, next time you see him

 

[BaronOfHair]

Here they are still quite rare, but the spoiled and entitled are on the rise.

The rot which had already overrun our universities decades ago

(Note the date that episode aired*)has been spreading over the culture at large http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/Movies/9807/16/review.something.about.mary/index.html (Note the date that was written and published)for much longer than most pundits and commentators realize. It was inevitable that the rest of the world would eventually be infected also. The advent of social media just accelerated the process in ways which were almost impossible to forsee

*Bonus points to all those who can identify the future 90s icon who guest stars in this ep

 

[BaronOfHair]

Taking the initiative fails for most beginners.

And as was discussed here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...ach-a-girl-paradox.282275/page-2#post-3119869 Viewing reality in dichotomous terms like "Failure or Success" is what really hinders many men, not just in dating and mating, but in life more generally. OP will benefit immensely from training himself to think in more specific, nuanced terms such as:

"I'm disappointed that that sultry college girl I approached at Star Bucks threw her Pink Drink in my face, then stormed out of the joint, instead of slipping her thong down her legs and inviting me to go to town right there in the middle of the shop. That said, I DID also take action out in reality(Instead of reciting my tale of woe on social media) AND achieve FIVE of the goals I'd set...

1. Spend less time online/bingewatching Doogie Howser re-runs, and more time out in the sunlight and fresh air
2. Spend less time ruminating on my psychiatric diagnosis, and more time pursuing my desires
3. Saying, at the very least, the word "Yo" to one real live woman in person
4. Strengthening my frustration/distress tolerance... I didn't have a massive coronary after that college girl threw her Pink Drink in my face, nor did the cosmos implode as a result of her doing so. This was merely embarrassing for me. Hell, several folks at Starbucks openly expressed compassion for me, by saying "Don't sweat it man... Kiki is a haughty b-tch, who does dumb sh-t like that alot". The manager even gave me a free latte, on account of what happened"
5. Gather field intelligence on what seems to turn not only women, but my fellow humans, on or off more generally. Upon further reflection, I suspect I'll likely be able to sustain future conversations(Especially with a woman)a bit longer, IF I refrain from following that "Yo" up by leaning in, and then whispering into her ear words to the effect of: "Wanna hear about that time I rubbed my penis on a girl's thigh until I ejaculated, because I'm terrified of sticking it into the poonany of a young, fertile piece of ass?"

 

[BaronOfHair]

My point is: Why should men in general bother with trying to become good at picking up a woman, when we could get the ladies to start throwing themselves at us if only we made one small sacrifice (a temporary protest against making moves on women)? Again, if every straight available man did this, the ladies would start throwing themselves at us within 9 months.

As mentioned sometime ago https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...-is-a-form-of-p0rn.282014/page-2#post-3114528 , the assertion that women don't also have to cultivate sexual attractiveness(An assertion rampant in The Manosphere)collapses, once we dig into a bit. Sydney Sweeney's ascendancy from one of a billion aspiring starlets to It Girl of The 2020s is but one example... She isn't/wasn't conventionally beautiful in the mold of a young Grace Kelly, and was competing with sh-tloads of actresses who were. Thus, she had some tough decisions to make:

-Smooth out her rough edges, via plastic surgery
-Learn to work what she's got (T&A galore)
-Take roles that required lots of nudity and graphic sex scenes. Exploit the fact that most rookie actresses in an industry still reeling from MeToo were, at the time, wussing out when offered these "edgy" roles
-Participate in ad campaigns for brands like Parade, when her first instinct was probably to make excuses for declining these offers, such as: "I work too hard on Euphoria. I'm entitled to spend every minute of the months we're not filming at home, Netflixing and chilling. Even though this photoshoot only requires that I fly out to New York for a couple of days, then lounge around in lingerie for a few hours"
-Spend a fair amount of her off hours working with "charisma coaches", reading up on the subject, etc etc. Rather than devoting most of her spare time to clubbing, boozing, and putting her paycheck up her nose

Or

-Not do any of the above. Hang around a dingy coffee shop in Arcadia, with lots of other chicks who'd come to Hollywood from towns like Spokane. Gals who weren't even booking commercials, and engaging in remarkable feats of intellectual contortion to explain away their lack of success... "If God would've just made me 5'10 instead of 5'3, I'd land a recurring role on Chicago DMV tomorrow. Sounding as if I'm reading my lines off a f-cking teleprompter isn't disadvantaging me at all" "If I were just dark skinned and ugly, like Viola Davis(Instead of fair-brown skinned and beautiful)I'd be headlining a TV series now. The era of The Hot Girl being venerated in Hollywood is over... Actresses like Elisha Cuthbert and Lindsay Lohan had it so easy in The 2000s"

You've got similarly tough decisions to make now, OP. Do what's required in order to achieve your goal, or do what often FEELS good temporarily(Grousing over all the lucky breaks Fortuna didn't give you), yet doesn't benefit you in any way materially

 

[GoodMan32]

A better word to use is "delusional excuse maker".

Well, that's 3 words but much more apropo.

It's a fact the most I've ever gotten from making a move on a woman in person is a sexless date from an extremely strange college classmate.

How does pointing out this fact make me a delusional excuse maker?

 

[GoodMan32]

We may have just discovered the origins of your fixation on pursuing older women ("I'll express my rage at Mummy, by bedding women who are old enough to be my own mother... I'll f-ck her over metaphorically in the present, since I can't go back in time and smack her in the mouth for real, as punishment for disrespecting me"), and you're determination to continue manufacturing excuses for not pursuing beautiful young women... You've been re-indoctrinating yourself with the messages you received in childhood

It's imperative to run all of this by your shrink, next time you see him

As a matter of fact, I have an appointment today. I will try to remember to mention this to him.

The fertility thing is definitely a large part of why I go for older women. That being said, I'm willing to acknowledge the possibility my relationship with my mom during my teen years is another part of why I go for older women.