Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[GoodMan32]

Why, yes, it is. Just as it's the general consensus to get a lot of money and status symbols to woo women. And to go to the gym and get shredded. And to build a successful business so you can reel in the babes with your business acumen.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but I'm a bit of an outlier, so I don't care about the 'general consensus' on a board of people who in general don't know a vagina from a hole in the ground.


In my experience, they do, but most men are too ignorant or lack the subtlety to notice. I had to take initiative when I was younger, especially when my work required me to 'blend in'. I don't need to do that anymore and I don't need to 'take initiative' with women, but I live in abundance whereas you... don't.


Taking the initiative fails for most beginners. Doesn't mean you shouldn't take the initiative. It means you should take more initiative and turn the tide, but for that you need to improve on your approaches with experience.
Experience you never gained because you threw in the towel the moment you got punched.


Talk about that with your shrink. If you keep hiding why you're such an incel, nobody will be able to help you.

Many a woman will drop hints they're into a man, I agree.

As you pointed out though, the man fails to pick up on it in many cases.

That being said, the female behavior you're describing (dropping hints that she wants us to make the move) isn't the same as her making the move on us.

I've dropped hints with broads before. That doesn't mean I made a move. Or does it?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

It's a fact the most I've ever gotten from making a move on a woman in person is a sexless date from an extremely strange college classmate.

How does pointing out this fact make me a delusional excuse maker?

It's also a fact that you haven't made near enough approaches to even contemplate that.

Until you've done 1000 approaches get gone and stop posting and start approaching.

You obviously aren't here for help you are only here to spew nonsense and look for someone to agree with you.

Honestly I'm starting to feel like this is some next level trolling

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

No surprise. I read somewhere that back in caveman days, only 1 out of 17 men were able to reproduce (simply because the cavewomen weren't into the vast majority of men).

Then society structured itself so that a woman needed a man financially, thus enabling the average Joe to get a woman. Eastern cultures still do this to some degree (arranged marriage).

Western culture, on the other hand, is gradually reverting back to caveman times (where a woman can be more choosy).

As a man on another forum told me "The average man will never be sexually exciting to a woman."

yup, found these:

8,000 Years Ago, 17 Women Reproduced for Every One Man

An analysis of modern DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture.

psmag.com

More women than men have added their DNA to the human gene pool

Counterintuitive effect may be the result of relatively few men mating with multiple women

www.theguardian.com

.

 

[BaronOfHair]

yup, found these:

8,000 Years Ago, 17 Women Reproduced for Every One Man

An analysis of modern DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture.

psmag.com

More women than men have added their DNA to the human gene pool

Counterintuitive effect may be the result of relatively few men mating with multiple women

www.theguardian.com

.

Don't provide him with even more grist for his rationalizations

 

[BaronOfHair]

The fertility thing is definitely a large part of why I go for older women

Delve into this with your shrink also. Start writing out the thoughts, images, and stories that flash through your mind, when you imagine impregnating a chick, and the emotions those generate. Ex. "I envision being in the delivery room with her 9 months after she tells me she's pregnant, and the birth ending like so

I then have the thought: "Mom was right all along... I'm defective and cursed". The emotions this thought generates are: Terror, Self-Disgust, Apprehension, Helplessness, Rage, Fury, Defeatedness, Degradation, Shame, Hopelessness, Despair".

After becoming adept at recognizing your surface level thoughts, you can start identifying and deconstructing the core beliefs https://www.therapistaid.com/therapy-worksheet/core-beliefs-info-sheet from which those surface level thoughts and stories you tell yourself stem* Seriously, OP: As scathing as some of our replies to you may seem, we're all pulling for you, and want you to succeed. It's now incumbent on you to uphold your end of the bargain, by engaging in the sometimes uncomfortable work of self-reflection and altering your behaviors




*Note: I'm not a shrink myself nor do I portray one on TV, so nobody mistake this for the equivalent of or a replacement for, psychotherapy. I'm just a guy who's read a bit on the subject + Undergone his fair share of headshrinking

 

[BaronOfHair]

It's also a fact that you haven't made near enough approaches to even contemplate that

OP's not that much different from someone who was bit by a dog ONCE, and is now terrified to walk down the street. Such maladies aren't easy to remedy by any means, nonetheless getting past them IS highly achievable, and there's no shortage of technology out there to aid this process

The onus is on him to start taking action now, instead of remaining addicted to intellectualizing his difficulties

 

[BaronOfHair]

I'm sure your big head could handle some shrinkage

I won't turn down the opportunity to enlarge my Little Head, once the technology for doing so becomes reliable

 

[BaronOfHair]

The gynocentric social order in Western nations does give older men a rough time for dating substantially younger women.

Yet another Red Pill canard that collapses under mild scrutiny: Kat McPhee is married to/having babies with a man in his 70s, and 30something Lizzy Winstead and Alexandra Daddario are doing likewise with guys in their 50s. The public at large at worst has a little giggle over this, then wishes them all well. By contrast, pair-ups like Aaron and Sam Taylor Johnson or Olivia Wilde and Harry Styles are openly reviled

If OP thinks he won't be subject to these same social dynamics, when not even our glitterati could escape them, he's in for a rude awakening

 

[GoodMan32]

Yet another Red Pill canard that collapses under mild scrutiny: Kat McPhee is married to/having babies with a man in his 70s, and 30something Lizzy Winstead and Alexandra Daddario are doing likewise with guys in their 50s. The public at large at worst has a little giggle over this, then wishes them all well. By contrast, pair-ups like Aaron and Sam Taylor Johnson or Olivia Wilde and Harry Styles are openly reviled

If OP thinks he won't be subject to these same social dynamics, when not even our glitterati could escape them, he's in for a rude awakening

What about Madonna and her younger men? I don't hear her getting much flack.

Besides, I really don't give a damn if society judges me for being into older women.

Speaking of older women, I ran the idea by my therapist that my mom's hurtful comments during my teen years could have contributed to my age preference.

 

[BaronOfHair]

What about Madonna and her younger men? I don't hear her getting much flack

Madonna had already degenerated into self-parody by time she started pulling that crap. The story would've been different had she done so during the late 80s-early 90s, when her career was going gang busters

Besides, I really don't give a damn if society judges me for being into older women

You wouldn't be on this site if you didn't care about influencing the rest of humanity's perception of you, so that they in turn will be more amenable to conceding to your wishes. I commend you for this. Most supposed men today are too pu-sy to be that honest with themselves

Speaking of older women, I ran the idea by my therapist that my mom's hurtful comments during my teen years could have contributed to my age preference.

Kings to you for doing so. What did he say in reply?

 

[GoodMan32]

Madonna had already degenerated into self-parody by time she started pulling that crap. The story would've been different had she done so during the late 80s-early 90s, when her career was going gang busters






You wouldn't be on this site if you didn't care about influencing the rest of humanity's perception of you, so that they in turn will be more amenable to conceding to your wishes. I commend you for this. Most supposed men today are too pu-sy to be that honest with themselves




Kings to you for doing so. What did he say in reply?

In the late 80s to early 90s, Madonna was only in her early 30s. There wouldn't have been a stigma about a 30 year old woman getting with a, say, 22 year old guy.

I'd like to do better with the ladies, yeah (which is the main reason I'm on here). That being said, my age preference is a hard line (in other words, I'm not looking to change my age preference).

As for my therapist, we're covering all sorts of topics in the course of my therapy. I didn't have a chance to mention the mom thing until the final 10 minutes. He pretty much just said, yeah, it's possible that could play a role in why I prefer older women (and he said we'll discuss the mom topic in more depth at our next session)

 

[GoodMan32]

Some other stuff my therapist said during the session (about other topics):

He said even though it's more common today for a woman to make a move on a man (compared to several decades ago), the difference is minimal. He said he'd estimate at least 85% of women still prefer the man to make the move. Which wasn't what I wanted to hear (but I acknowledge the fact the truth unfortunately won't always be what I want to hear).

He went on to say many a woman will drop hints that they want you to make a move on her, however. The bad news though: He said even non-spectrum men have a hard enough time deciphering her hints.

 

[corrector]

He went on to say many a woman will drop hints that they want you to make a move on her, however. The bad news though: He said even non-spectrum men have a hard enough time deciphering her hints.

What hints are you aware of?

 

[GoodMan32]

What hints are you aware of?

Some examples:

A woman commented to me once that she found some dresses in the back of her closet that she hardly ever wears. Then she said maybe she'll finally get a chance to wear one of her dresses if she ever gets asked out again (this same woman has told me I have good looks before).

A woman at the gym started a discussion with me. Then she continued the discussion while she stretched (obviously I had no choice but to continue looking in her direction, as we were in the middle of a discussion). There's more I could say about this woman; feel free to DM me if you want to hear more (for privacy reasons).

Female customer rubbed my back at work.

Another female customer asked where my accent comes from (and said she liked my accent).

On another thread, I mentioned my female next door neighbor (who has approximately 20 years on me) saying "nothing wrong with an older woman" (upon finding out I'm into older women)

Female coworker at a past job commented on my eyes and flawless skin.

Female coworker back in 2020 would act handsy with me.

Female coworker back in 2023, when I asked her about her nails, told me she treated herself for Valentine's Day (in other words, basically advertising that she was single)

Female coworker back in 2019 or 2020 drew a picture of me holding a bouquet of flowers (and gave me the picture). She also asked me once whether I have a girlfriend/wife.

 

[GoodMan32]

I am going to add, @corrector , that I'm not 100% sure if any of these hints mean they wanted me to make a move.

All I'm saying is they could have been clues that I was supposed to make a move.

 

[BaronOfHair]

In the late 80s to early 90s, Madonna was only in her early 30s. There wouldn't have been a stigma about a 30 year old woman getting with a, say, 22 year old guy

Yeah, there would have, thus she didn't do so. Same way Olivia Wilde didn't run around with Drake or Josh back in the late 2000s-early 10s, when she was just on the rise

I'd like to do better with the ladies, yeah (which is the main reason I'm on here). That being said...

And we all want to see you succeed, GM, thus we're frustrated to no end when you "That being said..."every last ounce of (extremely sage)counsel you're provided here. Stop making excuses, and start replacing your self-defeating behaviors with adaptative ones, TODAY. Because tomorrow ain't promised for any of us. Ask Anton Yelchin, next time you attend a seance. You're spending an ungodly amount of time and effort fantasizing about bedding a demographic of women who, by and large, have no desire to pair up with men young enough to be their sons. Despite being surrounded by a sea of beauties who are at the peak of their desirability, and eager for a real-life Christian Gray to carry them off to The Red Room

As for my therapist, we're covering all sorts of topics in the course of my therapy. I didn't have a chance to mention the mom thing until the final 10 minutes

The onus is on you to come in with a subject to work on, hoss. You're going to spend therapy nibbling around the edges of your troubles(I.E. Not getting to the good stuff until the end of every session, when there's no time to dig deep into it), if you expect any shrink to miracously heal you, without meeting them halfway

 

[corrector]

Some examples:

A woman commented to me once that she found some dresses in the back of her closet that she hardly ever wears. Then she said maybe she'll finally get a chance to wear one of her dresses if she ever gets asked out again (this same woman has told me I have good looks before).

Hard to say, would need more information about your relationship with this woman. It could be that you are her friend/good friend and this might be a friendzone. The comment itself is interesting but I wouldn't necessarily interpret it to mean she is expecting me to ask her out. 50/50 at best. However, it is a good quality of friendship for her to disclose that with you, even if you don't make a move.

A woman at the gym started a discussion with me. Then she continued the discussion while she stretched (obviously I had no choice but to continue looking in her direction, as we were in the middle of a discussion). There's more I could say about this woman; feel free to DM me if you want to hear more (for privacy reasons).

This is 100%...she started a discussion with you. What more of an obvious hint do you need there?

Female customer rubbed my back at work.

This is again another 100% because she is touching you like that. You can even remember this to write it down?
See you don't have to use the excuse of being on spectrum not to see interest there.

Did you rub her back too? Would she let you hug her like a doll or pull her hair? How far could you go with her?

Another female customer asked where my accent comes from (and said she liked my accent).

That does not mean anything.

On another thread, I mentioned my female next door neighbor (who has approximately 20 years on me) saying "nothing wrong with an older woman" (upon finding out I'm into older women)

Very hard to read this one....very 50/50.

Female coworker at a past job commented on my eyes and flawless skin.

This could be a hint.

Female coworker back in 2020 would act handsy with me.

This is like 100% -- obviously you can act handsy on her too....where would she let you touch?

Female coworker back in 2023, when I asked her about her nails, told me she treated herself for Valentine's Day (in other words, basically advertising that she was single)

May not mean anything.

Female coworker back in 2019 or 2020 drew a picture of me holding a bouquet of flowers (and gave me the picture). She also asked me once whether I have a girlfriend/wife.

Very strong interest...she took the time to draw that picture and made that question. You would have to be blind to even question that.

 

[corrector]

I am going to add, @corrector , that I'm not 100% sure if any of these hints mean they wanted me to make a move.

All I'm saying is they could have been clues that I was supposed to make a move.

What is wrong with you? You have some amazing IOI's from your co-workers and yet you have a policy of not crapping where you eat.
You have clear niche interest through work and if you didn't put up mental barriers you could be successful on here like @Hamurabimbi who actually does get action through work and never gets into any trouble with it.

I don't have great experiences or IOIs like you do. You are now coming across like a type of quiet bragger.

What type of traction do I get at work? At best I might get a breadcrumb here or there from a taken girl on the team, or a crystal friendship bracelet from a fat married woman that I have no romantic interest in......just barely enough to not consistently log-into ASMR video fantasies because real life sucks like crap with it comes to women. You on the other hand HAVE NO EXCUSE.

Can we trade places? I would love to get the IOIs and attention you are getting so I could actually make moves with the women there at work and not see opportunities wasted down the toilet like that. Not to crap where you work, only goes so far in my books....I'm sorry.

I did an analysis of every single thing you brought up and offered my opinion. Come on @GoodMan32. What is wrong with you?

 

[BaronOfHair]

He said even though it's more common today for a woman to make a move on a man (compared to several decades ago), the difference is minimal. He said he'd estimate at least 85% of women still prefer the man to make the move...

Sounds like you've found a shrink who's got both feet firmly on the ground, and who hasn't Gone Woke, which is increasingly rare at present. Don't squander this gift from Fortuna now. Make a conscious effort to be the ideal client described here 3:12-3:50

So that you can maximum benefits

 

[Hamurabimbi]

What is wrong with you? You have some amazing IOI's from your co-workers and yet you have a policy of not crapping where you eat.
You have clear niche interest through work and if you didn't put up mental barriers you could be successful on here like @Hamurabimbi who actually does get action through work and never gets into any trouble with it.

The ‘IOI’s I get at work are unambiguous. Which is one reason I never get in trouble.
e.g. a coworker hopping on my desk, wiggling her a$$ and asking if I ,need a sexratatary?’. Or being offered a BJ by a coworker in a company vehicle.