Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[corrector]

Yeah. She's fat.

Interestingly, she ended up dating yet another skinny white man after we broke up (she's Latina)

That must have stung how they move on so quickly.

 

[GoodMan32]

From an autistic logical standpoint, that would make sense. However, dating is about feelings and those supersede your 'logic', so you will just have to roll up your sleeves and start taking initiative.


Your proposed autistic plan that nobody in their right mind would follow because AGAIN the woman's feelings supersede your notions of how things 'should be', and your 'proposed plan' is centred around convenience, insecurity and fear of failure that is giving you crippling anxiety that will make delusional wish fulfilment look 'logical'.


You don't 'get' an arranged wife. Your father will have to buy you one.
And let's be reasonable here, for another father to make his daughter marry someone like you, you might have to settle for some warthog or your father must have deep, deep pockets.

I think maybe we need an 'Autistic Don Juan Discussion' subforum where we patiently explain to our autistic members that although their mothers claimed that the world will adapt itself to their autism, the cruel and unjust universe doesn't give an airborne copulation about the mentally divergent, who will just have to adapt or die.

Again, I'm simply a realist. Taking the initiative fails for me nearly 100% of the time.

As for my mom, don't get me started. My mom never told me the world would cater to my ASD. Quite the opposite. In fact, my mom made some hurtful comments about my struggles with the ladies during my teen years:

"You'll probably never get kissed."

"When you were born, I thought I'd be fighting the girls off you at this age."

Then here's the icing on the cake: The summer between high school and college, a middle-aged man shot up his gym because he was upset at his celibacy. My mom said he sounded like an older version of me (And for the record, no, I would never go on a shooting)

 

[GoodMan32]

No, for you it's rare that women make a move.


You have to stop living in your imaginary utopia. You can write a fiction novel about it, like The Handmaid's Tale, to get that out of your head, but you have to understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

Umm, isn't the general consensus on here that the man has to make the move on the woman?

Yet here you are telling me women make a move on plenty of men.

 

[GoodMan32]

That must have stung how they move on so quickly.

The breakup was my decision. So it didn't really sting for me.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I'm not sure if "afraid" is the right word. A better word to describe me is "realist."

Making a move on a woman in person has only ever gotten me one success: A sexless date with an extremely strange classmate during college (Calling her "strange" is an understatement. She carried around a blanket and stuffed animal).

Every other woman I've expressed interest in the traditional way (in person) has been repulsed by me.

Why should I bother with a method that's never gotten me anything more than a sexless date with a fat college girl who carried around a blanket and a stuffed animal?

My goal isn't to trick a woman into thinking I'm confident. My goal is to trick a woman into thinking I'm neurotypical (Which I can only do for so long. My spectrum mannerisms came out within 4 days after my last date)

A better word to use is "delusional excuse maker".

Well, that's 3 words but much more apropo.

 

[corrector]

The breakup was my decision. So it didn't really sting for me.

The first break up was also my decision, but it did not make a difference with me in terms of impact. It stung for a solid year.

If it didn't sting, then it means you weren't that into her, when you broke up. Or it was not a "logical break-up" with someone you love.

 

[BaronOfHair]

As for my mom, don't get me started. My mom never told me the world would cater to my ASD. Quite the opposite. In fact, my mom made some hurtful comments about my struggles with the ladies during my teen years:

"You'll probably never get kissed."

"When you were born, I thought I'd be fighting the girls off you at this age."

Then here's the icing on the cake: The summer between high school and college, a middle-aged man shot up his gym because he was upset at his celibacy. My mom said he sounded like an older version of me (And for the record, no, I would never go on a shooting)

We may have just discovered the origins of your fixation on pursuing older women ("I'll express my rage at Mummy, by bedding women who are old enough to be my own mother... I'll f-ck her over metaphorically in the present, since I can't go back in time and smack her in the mouth for real, as punishment for disrespecting me"), and you're determination to continue manufacturing excuses for not pursuing beautiful young women... You've been re-indoctrinating yourself with the messages you received in childhood

It's imperative to run all of this by your shrink, next time you see him

 

[BaronOfHair]

Here they are still quite rare, but the spoiled and entitled are on the rise.

The rot which had already overrun our universities decades ago

(Note the date that episode aired*)has been spreading over the culture at large http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/Movies/9807/16/review.something.about.mary/index.html (Note the date that was written and published)for much longer than most pundits and commentators realize. It was inevitable that the rest of the world would eventually be infected also. The advent of social media just accelerated the process in ways which were almost impossible to forsee

*Bonus points to all those who can identify the future 90s icon who guest stars in this ep

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Umm, isn't the general consensus on here that the man has to make the move on the woman?

Why, yes, it is. Just as it's the general consensus to get a lot of money and status symbols to woo women. And to go to the gym and get shredded. And to build a successful business so you can reel in the babes with your business acumen.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but I'm a bit of an outlier, so I don't care about the 'general consensus' on a board of people who in general don't know a vagina from a hole in the ground.

Yet here you are telling me women make a move on plenty of men.

In my experience, they do, but most men are too ignorant or lack the subtlety to notice. I had to take initiative when I was younger, especially when my work required me to 'blend in'. I don't need to do that anymore and I don't need to 'take initiative' with women, but I live in abundance whereas you... don't.

Again, I'm simply a realist. Taking the initiative fails for me nearly 100% of the time.

Taking the initiative fails for most beginners. Doesn't mean you shouldn't take the initiative. It means you should take more initiative and turn the tide, but for that you need to improve on your approaches with experience.
Experience you never gained because you threw in the towel the moment you got punched.

As for my mom, don't get me started. My mom never told me the world would cater to my ASD. Quite the opposite. In fact, my mom made some hurtful comments about my struggles with the ladies during my teen years:

Talk about that with your shrink. If you keep hiding why you're such an incel, nobody will be able to help you.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Taking the initiative fails for most beginners.

And as was discussed here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...ach-a-girl-paradox.282275/page-2#post-3119869 Viewing reality in dichotomous terms like "Failure or Success" is what really hinders many men, not just in dating and mating, but in life more generally. OP will benefit immensely from training himself to think in more specific, nuanced terms such as:

"I'm disappointed that that sultry college girl I approached at Star Bucks threw her Pink Drink in my face, then stormed out of the joint, instead of slipping her thong down her legs and inviting me to go to town right there in the middle of the shop. That said, I DID also take action out in reality(Instead of reciting my tale of woe on social media) AND achieve FIVE of the goals I'd set...

1. Spend less time online/bingewatching Doogie Howser re-runs, and more time out in the sunlight and fresh air
2. Spend less time ruminating on my psychiatric diagnosis, and more time pursuing my desires
3. Saying, at the very least, the word "Yo" to one real live woman in person
4. Strengthening my frustration/distress tolerance... I didn't have a massive coronary after that college girl threw her Pink Drink in my face, nor did the cosmos implode as a result of her doing so. This was merely embarrassing for me. Hell, several folks at Starbucks openly expressed compassion for me, by saying "Don't sweat it man... Kiki is a haughty b-tch, who does dumb sh-t like that alot". The manager even gave me a free latte, on account of what happened"
5. Gather field intelligence on what seems to turn not only women, but my fellow humans, on or off more generally. Upon further reflection, I suspect I'll likely be able to sustain future conversations(Especially with a woman)a bit longer, IF I refrain from following that "Yo" up by leaning in, and then whispering into her ear words to the effect of: "Wanna hear about that time I rubbed my penis on a girl's thigh until I ejaculated, because I'm terrified of sticking it into the poonany of a young, fertile piece of ass?"

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

And as was discussed here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...ach-a-girl-paradox.282275/page-2#post-3119869 Viewing reality in dichotomous terms like "Failure or Success" is what really hinders many men, not just in dating and mating, but in life more generally

Of course, and everyone is terribly afraid of failing, not realising you learn more from failures than successes.

 

[BaronOfHair]

My point is: Why should men in general bother with trying to become good at picking up a woman, when we could get the ladies to start throwing themselves at us if only we made one small sacrifice (a temporary protest against making moves on women)? Again, if every straight available man did this, the ladies would start throwing themselves at us within 9 months.

As mentioned sometime ago https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...-is-a-form-of-p0rn.282014/page-2#post-3114528 , the assertion that women don't also have to cultivate sexual attractiveness(An assertion rampant in The Manosphere)collapses, once we dig into a bit. Sydney Sweeney's ascendancy from one of a billion aspiring starlets to It Girl of The 2020s is but one example... She isn't/wasn't conventionally beautiful in the mold of a young Grace Kelly, and was competing with sh-tloads of actresses who were. Thus, she had some tough decisions to make:

-Smooth out her rough edges, via plastic surgery
-Learn to work what she's got (T&A galore)
-Take roles that required lots of nudity and graphic sex scenes. Exploit the fact that most rookie actresses in an industry still reeling from MeToo were, at the time, wussing out when offered these "edgy" roles
-Participate in ad campaigns for brands like Parade, when her first instinct was probably to make excuses for declining these offers, such as: "I work too hard on Euphoria. I'm entitled to spend every minute of the months we're not filming at home, Netflixing and chilling. Even though this photoshoot only requires that I fly out to New York for a couple of days, then lounge around in lingerie for a few hours"
-Spend a fair amount of her off hours working with "charisma coaches", reading up on the subject, etc etc. Rather than devoting most of her spare time to clubbing, boozing, and putting her paycheck up her nose

Or

-Not do any of the above. Hang around a dingy coffee shop in Arcadia, with lots of other chicks who'd come to Hollywood from towns like Spokane. Gals who weren't even booking commercials, and engaging in remarkable feats of intellectual contortion to explain away their lack of success... "If God would've just made me 5'10 instead of 5'3, I'd land a recurring role on Chicago DMV tomorrow. Sounding as if I'm reading my lines off a f-cking teleprompter isn't disadvantaging me at all" "If I were just dark skinned and ugly, like Viola Davis(Instead of fair-brown skinned and beautiful)I'd be headlining a TV series now. The era of The Hot Girl being venerated in Hollywood is over... Actresses like Elisha Cuthbert and Lindsay Lohan had it so easy in The 2000s"

You've got similarly tough decisions to make now, OP. Do what's required in order to achieve your goal, or do what often FEELS good temporarily(Grousing over all the lucky breaks Fortuna didn't give you), yet doesn't benefit you in any way materially

 

[GoodMan32]

A better word to use is "delusional excuse maker".

Well, that's 3 words but much more apropo.

It's a fact the most I've ever gotten from making a move on a woman in person is a sexless date from an extremely strange college classmate.

How does pointing out this fact make me a delusional excuse maker?

 

[GoodMan32]

We may have just discovered the origins of your fixation on pursuing older women ("I'll express my rage at Mummy, by bedding women who are old enough to be my own mother... I'll f-ck her over metaphorically in the present, since I can't go back in time and smack her in the mouth for real, as punishment for disrespecting me"), and you're determination to continue manufacturing excuses for not pursuing beautiful young women... You've been re-indoctrinating yourself with the messages you received in childhood

It's imperative to run all of this by your shrink, next time you see him

As a matter of fact, I have an appointment today. I will try to remember to mention this to him.

The fertility thing is definitely a large part of why I go for older women. That being said, I'm willing to acknowledge the possibility my relationship with my mom during my teen years is another part of why I go for older women.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

As a matter of fact, I have an appointment today. I will try to remember to mention this to him.

The fertility thing is definitely a large part of why I go for older women. That being said, I'm willing to acknowledge the possibility my relationship with my mom during my teen years is another part of why I go for older women.

Wow, no sh!t.

Now tell your shrink.

 

[GoodMan32]

Why, yes, it is. Just as it's the general consensus to get a lot of money and status symbols to woo women. And to go to the gym and get shredded. And to build a successful business so you can reel in the babes with your business acumen.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but I'm a bit of an outlier, so I don't care about the 'general consensus' on a board of people who in general don't know a vagina from a hole in the ground.


In my experience, they do, but most men are too ignorant or lack the subtlety to notice. I had to take initiative when I was younger, especially when my work required me to 'blend in'. I don't need to do that anymore and I don't need to 'take initiative' with women, but I live in abundance whereas you... don't.


Taking the initiative fails for most beginners. Doesn't mean you shouldn't take the initiative. It means you should take more initiative and turn the tide, but for that you need to improve on your approaches with experience.
Experience you never gained because you threw in the towel the moment you got punched.


Talk about that with your shrink. If you keep hiding why you're such an incel, nobody will be able to help you.

Many a woman will drop hints they're into a man, I agree.

As you pointed out though, the man fails to pick up on it in many cases.

That being said, the female behavior you're describing (dropping hints that she wants us to make the move) isn't the same as her making the move on us.

I've dropped hints with broads before. That doesn't mean I made a move. Or does it?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

It's a fact the most I've ever gotten from making a move on a woman in person is a sexless date from an extremely strange college classmate.

How does pointing out this fact make me a delusional excuse maker?

It's also a fact that you haven't made near enough approaches to even contemplate that.

Until you've done 1000 approaches get gone and stop posting and start approaching.

You obviously aren't here for help you are only here to spew nonsense and look for someone to agree with you.

Honestly I'm starting to feel like this is some next level trolling

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

No surprise. I read somewhere that back in caveman days, only 1 out of 17 men were able to reproduce (simply because the cavewomen weren't into the vast majority of men).

Then society structured itself so that a woman needed a man financially, thus enabling the average Joe to get a woman. Eastern cultures still do this to some degree (arranged marriage).

Western culture, on the other hand, is gradually reverting back to caveman times (where a woman can be more choosy).

As a man on another forum told me "The average man will never be sexually exciting to a woman."

yup, found these:

8,000 Years Ago, 17 Women Reproduced for Every One Man

An analysis of modern DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture.

psmag.com

More women than men have added their DNA to the human gene pool

Counterintuitive effect may be the result of relatively few men mating with multiple women

www.theguardian.com

.

 

[BaronOfHair]

yup, found these:

8,000 Years Ago, 17 Women Reproduced for Every One Man

An analysis of modern DNA uncovers a rough dating scene after the advent of agriculture.

psmag.com

More women than men have added their DNA to the human gene pool

Counterintuitive effect may be the result of relatively few men mating with multiple women

www.theguardian.com

.

Don't provide him with even more grist for his rationalizations

 

[BaronOfHair]

The fertility thing is definitely a large part of why I go for older women

Delve into this with your shrink also. Start writing out the thoughts, images, and stories that flash through your mind, when you imagine impregnating a chick, and the emotions those generate. Ex. "I envision being in the delivery room with her 9 months after she tells me she's pregnant, and the birth ending like so

I then have the thought: "Mom was right all along... I'm defective and cursed". The emotions this thought generates are: Terror, Self-Disgust, Apprehension, Helplessness, Rage, Fury, Defeatedness, Degradation, Shame, Hopelessness, Despair".

After becoming adept at recognizing your surface level thoughts, you can start identifying and deconstructing the core beliefs https://www.therapistaid.com/therapy-worksheet/core-beliefs-info-sheet from which those surface level thoughts and stories you tell yourself stem* Seriously, OP: As scathing as some of our replies to you may seem, we're all pulling for you, and want you to succeed. It's now incumbent on you to uphold your end of the bargain, by engaging in the sometimes uncomfortable work of self-reflection and altering your behaviors




*Note: I'm not a shrink myself nor do I portray one on TV, so nobody mistake this for the equivalent of or a replacement for, psychotherapy. I'm just a guy who's read a bit on the subject + Undergone his fair share of headshrinking