Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[BaronOfHair]

He failed to see the bigger picture. Yeah, in the short-term, I'm aware this strategy would lead to dry spells for lots of men. But as time goes on, if all available straight men continue to refrain from making moves on women, women would start propositioning men for dates/sex (because otherwise, no single woman would ever get a date or sex again)

Alternate explanation:

He realized: "What GoodMan is proposing is similar to Feminists saying "We could get more young women to take their schoolwork seriously, become engineers, IF only shi-tloads of other folks in our civilization weren't offering them a lot of instantaneous money to take off their clothes on camera". Such fantasies aren't even worth being written off as pipe dreams"

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

OP needs therapy. Choose a therapist who has experience helping ASD folks navigate social environments. OP also has a crippling self defeating attitude that he conveniently hangs on the ASD label, and I'm sure a fair bit of that is legit, but it is ALL defeatist and rate limiting.

The purpose of therapy is to understand yourself better, become better equipped with tools and behavioral strategies to get better adjusted to the world around you, and to quit reciting your conquests like a score card and expecting human interactions to be formulaic.

That is NOT reality.

Therapy will help you understand yourself better and understand the inherent messy illogical way humans relate to each other, something which must be ACCEPTED at the same time you seek better understanding of it.

Nobody here is qualified as a therapist to deal with your ASD compounded by other issues and faulty belief system.

Find someone who specializes in nuerodiverse/ASD people. This is much deeper seated than the scorecard of who you have and haven't had sex with and who you have and haven't paid for sex.

And yes. You need to openly discuss all this in therapy so the therapist understands your issues and how to help you navigate them.

This is out of our collective league.

 

[BaronOfHair]

So if you could do that as a little kid and you knew the best way to improve at something is to keep working at and working at it, why are adults unable to simply get out of their own way with their negativity, self doubt and terrible self talk that basically ensures they will never improve and just give up?

'Tis the downside of acquiring more information, which we inevitably do, the longer we're alive. It's easy to then become like ol' Dale here

By making talking AROUND topics we find uncomfortable, rather than about them, our forte. That's where membership in a men's group (Even a de facto one which exists entirely online, like SS)comes in handy... We ALL need a Taber in our life, to occasionally remind us to knock off the bullsh-t, and get to the central point. In The OP's case, this might look like

-Finally fessing up having Mommy issues(Who among us doesn't, to a degree)which have gotten way out of hand, and that he's seeking a replacement for what he wishes he received in early childhood. Despite the fact that he ain't a child anymore(Physically, at least), and no sane woman is going to be remotely eager to be his substitute mommy, who also takes him into her bed on a regular basis

-Admitting that Mommy issues aren't his problem... He's just terrified of pursuing a woman his own age or a decade younger, possibly falling for her, because intellectually he knows this(Like everything else in life)will be impermanent. So to avoid the pain which will accompany such a loss, he seeks out women he knows are either highly unlikely to desire him, or who might agree to a very brief fling. So brief, that no emotional connection forms, and he can go through life unscathed and less than fulfilled

 

[GoodMan32]

Alternate explanation:

He realized: "What GoodMan is proposing is similar to Feminists saying "We could get more young women to take their schoolwork seriously, become engineers, IF only shi-tloads of other folks in our civilization weren't offering them a lot of instantaneous money to take off their clothes on camera". Such fantasies aren't even worth being written off as pipe dreams"

I had a high school teacher who struggled a lot financially as a kid/young adult. During young adulthood, he did a lot of stuff the average person wouldn't want to do...but in the end, he managed to get himself into a decent place financially (teachers, at least in the state I went to high school in, are comfortably middle class).

I remember him saying once (about the sacrifices he made during young adulthood) "If I could do it, why couldn't everyone?"

There's somewhere I'm going with this story. For the past 9 years or so, I've barely made a move on any woman. If I can do it, couldn't every man?

It wouldn't take anywhere near 9 years to notice a difference if every man did this by the way. Within 9 months, we'd start to notice a drastic difference (in terms of broads becoming more bold with coming onto us)

 

[GoodMan32]

Advice from the old lady:

OP needs therapy. Choose a therapist who has experience helping ASD folks navigate social environments. OP also has a crippling self defeating attitude that he conveniently hangs on the ASD label, and I'm sure a fair bit of that is legit, but it is ALL defeatist and rate limiting.

The purpose of therapy is to understand yourself better, become better equipped with tools and behavioral strategies to get better adjusted to the world around you, and to quit reciting your conquests like a score card and expecting human interactions to be formulaic.

That is NOT reality.

Therapy will help you understand yourself better and understand the inherent messy illogical way humans relate to each other, something which must be ACCEPTED at the same time you seek better understanding of it.

Nobody here is qualified as a therapist to deal with your ASD compounded by other issues and faulty belief system.

Find someone who specializes in nuerodiverse/ASD people. This is much deeper seated than the scorecard of who you have and haven't had sex with and who you have and haven't paid for sex.

And yes. You need to openly discuss all this in therapy so the therapist understands your issues and how to help you navigate them.

This is out of our collective league.

As a matter of fact, I've been going to therapy. My therapist knows I'm on the spectrum (he also knows a lot of my backstory as far as my history with the ladies).

He said he's worked with others on the spectrum too. I've only been going to this therapy practice since the beginning of June. I'm confident he'll help as time goes on (it's too early to tell right now)

 

[BaronOfHair]

Advice from the old lady:

OP needs therapy. Choose a therapist who has experience helping ASD folks navigate social environments. OP also has a crippling self defeating attitude that he conveniently hangs on the ASD label, and I'm sure a fair bit of that is legit, but it is ALL defeatist and rate limiting.

The purpose of therapy is to understand yourself better, become better equipped with tools and behavioral strategies to get better adjusted to the world around you, and to quit reciting your conquests like a score card and expecting human interactions to be formulaic.

That is NOT reality.

Therapy will help you understand yourself better and understand the inherent messy illogical way humans relate to each other, something which must be ACCEPTED at the same time you seek better understanding of it.

Nobody here is qualified as a therapist to deal with your ASD compounded by other issues and faulty belief system.

Find someone who specializes in nuerodiverse/ASD people. This is much deeper seated than the scorecard of who you have and haven't had sex with and who you have and haven't paid for sex.

And yes. You need to openly discuss all this in therapy so the therapist understands your issues and how to help you navigate them.

This is out of our collective league.

You've hardly been the first who's urged OP to seek out a skillful shrink. His verbatim response, earlier in this very thread: "No amount of therapy will change the fact condoms can break or slip off. All therapy could do is try to convince me to accept the risk. I have no interest in accepting the risk"

Dude's current mindset makes it very unlikely that he'll be especially receptive to even the most sophisticated psychotherapy. I say this as someone who himself was once similarly unreachable

 

[BeExcellent]

You've hardly been the first who's urged OP to seek out a skillful shrink. His verbatim response, earlier in this very thread: "No amount of therapy will change the fact condoms can break or slip off. All therapy could do is try to convince me to accept the risk. I have no interest in accepting the risk"

Dude's current mindset makes it very unlikely that he'll be especially receptive to even the most sophisticated psychotherapy. I say this as someone who himself was once similarly unreachable

Both you and @TheCanadian have stated this. It's a process and will need time to work. My husband is very high functioning ASD as well. It introduces challenges in the relationship but we see a good therapist who helps us learn productive ways to communicate & relate better. There is no shame in openly IDing and dealing with these kinds of things. Part of the reason I am so frank with OP is that my husband could have used it as an excuse.....but he never has had issues attracting girls & starting relationships. Maintaining has been a different story until now, but that is multifactorial.

So I know ASD isn't so much the issue here. Contributing factor? You bet. But it's been OP's excuse.

My husband was only recently diagnosed, and struggles with the label or his perception of the label.....but it explains very thoroughly his pervasive communication and social dynamic issues at work, with family, in his sport and in his relationships. So the struggle to accept being wired differently is very real. I have a front row seat. I am well aware.

 

[GoodMan32]

You've hardly been the first who's urged OP to seek out a skillful shrink. His verbatim response, earlier in this very thread: "No amount of therapy will change the fact condoms can break or slip off. All therapy could do is try to convince me to accept the risk. I have no interest in accepting the risk"

Dude's current mindset makes it very unlikely that he'll be especially receptive to even the most sophisticated psychotherapy. I say this as someone who himself was once similarly unreachable

Umm, I'm pretty sure the poster you're quoting was urging me to go to therapy because of various other issues (not the condom/pregnancy thing)

 

[BaronOfHair]

Both you and @TheCanadian have stated this. It's a process and will need time to work. My husband is very high functioning ASD as well. It introduces challenges in the relationship but we see a good therapist who helps us learn productive ways to communicate & relate better. There is no shame in openly IDing and dealing with these kinds of things. Part of the reason I am so frank with OP is that my husband could have used it as an excuse.....but he never has had issues attracting girls & starting relationships. Maintaining has been a different story until now, but that is multifactorial.

So I know ASD isn't so much the issue here. Contributing factor? You bet. But it's been OP's excuse.

My husband was only recently diagnosed, and struggles with the label or his perception of the label.....but it explains very thoroughly his pervasive communication and social dynamic issues at work, with family, in his sport and in his relationships. So the struggle to accept being wired differently is very real. I have a front row seat. I am well aware.

I'll expand on a few of The Canadian's prior words ("I wouldn't be surprised if I could be diagnosed as having "high functioning" autism as well"), by re-iterating a running joke: "Just as most women are Borderline to some degree, most men are somewhere on the autism spectrum". While I don't deny that ailments like BPD and Autism exist, the advent of Therapy Speak has cursed us with a culture where things like run of the mill poor emotional control, social awkwardness, and the perfectly human inclination to justify these annoying habits are now being diagnosed as full-blown disorders. Same way the criteria for receiving a diagnosis of clinical depression has been growing increasingly elastic over the past few decades

OP has can easily start engaging in bibliotherapy today, by listening to that audiobook linked in two prior posts, taking notes, and practicing what he learns. All he has to do is stop making excuses, and get to work

 

[GoodMan32]

Both you and @TheCanadian have stated this. It's a process and will need time to work. My husband is very high functioning ASD as well. It introduces challenges in the relationship but we see a good therapist who helps us learn productive ways to communicate & relate better. There is no shame in openly IDing and dealing with these kinds of things. Part of the reason I am so frank with OP is that my husband could have used it as an excuse.....but he never has had issues attracting girls & starting relationships. Maintaining has been a different story until now, but that is multifactorial.

So I know ASD isn't so much the issue here. Contributing factor? You bet. But it's been OP's excuse.

My husband was only recently diagnosed, and struggles with the label or his perception of the label.....but it explains very thoroughly his pervasive communication and social dynamic issues at work, with family, in his sport and in his relationships. So the struggle to accept being wired differently is very real. I have a front row seat. I am well aware.

Like your husband, maintaining relationships has been a challenge for me. Longest relationship was 8 months. Every other relationship has been much shorter.

It's inteteresting though that you mention your husband never had a hard time attracting the ladies. That's where we differ (Or let's put it this way: I rarely pick up on interest from the ladies. It's possible there have been a lot of gals attracted to me, without me realizing).

One thing I should point out: I found out I was on the spectrum in middle school. When I was in college, I convinced myself I had outgrown being on the spectrum (I've since learned being on the spectrum is something you never outgrow).

Even with convincing myself I wasn't on the spectrum during college, I still struggled with the ladies. My point? Whether I use the spectrum thing as an excuse (like I do now) or not (like during college), I struggle.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Both you and @TheCanadian have stated this. It's a process and will need time to work. My husband is very high functioning ASD as well. It introduces challenges in the relationship but we see a good therapist who helps us learn productive ways to communicate & relate better. There is no shame in openly IDing and dealing with these kinds of things. Part of the reason I am so frank with OP is that my husband could have used it as an excuse.....but he never has had issues attracting girls & starting relationships. Maintaining has been a different story until now, but that is multifactorial.

So I know ASD isn't so much the issue here. Contributing factor? You bet. But it's been OP's excuse.

My husband was only recently diagnosed, and struggles with the label or his perception of the label.....but it explains very thoroughly his pervasive communication and social dynamic issues at work, with family, in his sport and in his relationships. So the struggle to accept being wired differently is very real. I have a front row seat. I am well aware.

a woman who joined this forum? how did you and your husband meet each other? i assume you and him both started dating each other wile in your 20s?

 

[BaronOfHair]

It wouldn't take anywhere near 9 years to notice a difference if every man did this by the way. Within 9 months, we'd start to notice a drastic difference (in terms of broads becoming more bold with coming onto us)

If a large cross-section of America went along with the recommendations("Drop out of civilization completely... If you need cash, beg for just enough to survive on Patreon")of every MGTOW content creator on YouTube(Most of whom are themselves married men, leading upper-middle class lives as Z list celebrities), we'd notice a drastic difference within a week. Everything from the financial sector, to the tech industry, to the medical field, to public services like fire and sanitation departments would cease to operate

How likely is it that anything more than a small sliver of the world's population will ultimately do what MGTOWs are urging though? Probabilities Vs Possibilities

 

[BaronOfHair]

Umm, I'm pretty sure the poster you're quoting was urging me to go to therapy because of various other issues (not the condom/pregnancy thing)

I AM the poster who was urging you to seek out a solid Cognitive Behavioral shrink. Preferably one who's had a fair-exhaustive amount of formal training post-university, from somewhere like The Beck or Ellis Institute, and who regularly updates and refreshes his or her education. These fixations on a condom breaking/a girl getting pregnant, are clearly a symptom of a much deeper psychopathology

If nothing else, listen to that previously linked audiobook, take notes, and practice everything that's being gifted to you, FREE of charge. Clogging up cyberspace with hairbrained rationalizations and excuses for NOT accepting the aid so many have provided you with is, quite frankly, disrespectful

 

[corrector]

Like your husband, maintaining relationships has been a challenge for me. Longest relationship was 8 months. Every other relationship has been much shorter.

Mines have been 9 months, so it's longer than your by one month. What was the quality of the 8 month relationship? Did you both exchange I love yous and planned a future but something go wrong and it abruptly came apart or was it more casual than that?

 

[GoodMan32]

If a large cross-section of America went along with the recommendations("Drop out of civilization completely... If you need cash, beg for just enough to survive on Patreon")of every MGTOW content creator on YouTube(Most of whom are themselves married men, leading upper-middle class lives as Z list celebrities), we'd notice a drastic difference within a week. Everything from the financial sector, to the tech industry, to the medical field, to public services like fire and sanitation departments would cease to operate

How likely is it that anything more than a small sliver of the world's population will ultimately do what MGTOWs are urging though? Probabilities Vs Possibilities

Dropping out of civilization entirely is a lot more drastic than taking a break from making moves on the ladies.

Here's what I really don't get: Even if you're totally willing to make a move on a woman, wouldn't you still be ecstatic if we had a society where women threw themselves at men?

That's what my idea would lead to: A society where they throw themselves at us.

 

[GoodMan32]

I AM the poster who was urging you to seek out a solid Cognitive Behavioral shrink. Preferably one who's had a fair-exhaustive amount of formal training post-university, from somewhere like The Beck or Ellis Institute, and who regularly updates and refreshes his or her education. These fixations on a condom breaking/a girl getting pregnant, are clearly a symptom of a much deeper psychopathology

If nothing else, listen to that previously linked audiobook, take notes, and practice everything that's being gifted to you, FREE of charge. Clogging up cyberspace with hairbrained rationalizations and excuses for NOT accepting the aid so many have provided you with is, quite frankly, disrespectful

I know you recommended therapy.

The one female poster on here recommended therapy too (to which I let her know I'm in therapy).

I'm willing to listen to the input of posters. I just draw a hard line on 2 things.

 

[GoodMan32]

Mines have been 9 months, so it's longer than your by one month. What was the quality of the 8 month relationship? Did you both exchange I love yous and planned a future but something go wrong and it abruptly came apart or was it more casual than that?

Your marriage only lasted 9 months?

As for the 8 month relationship, as embarrassed as I am to admit it, we said the L word (in retrospect, I don't think I meant it).

We had a planned future, yeah.

It's hard to pinpoint where exactly we fell apart. I remember on our last date, however, we were sitting a few feet away from each other (in the past, we had always been right next to each other). And you know what? Sitting a few feet away felt natural. At that point, I knew our relationship was finished.

Different ideas, as well as cultural differences, both played a role in the dissolution of our relationship. Another factor was that it became harder and harder for us to meet up as time went on (I was working 2 jobs, she shared a car with her parents and sister, etc).

I also had a 10 month online relationship with a long-distance girl at one point (we never met in person). But I don't count that one (because it solely existed online)

 

[BaronOfHair]

Here's what I really don't get: Even if you're totally willing to make a move on a woman, wouldn't you still be ecstatic if we had a society where women threw themselves at men?

We'd all be ecstatic if we lived in an alternate reality, where we could alleviate our personal frustrations by flogging toddlers with a bullwhip on a daily basis, WITHOUT that sort of maltreatment having an extremely detrimental effect(both physical and psychological)on the very kids we're kicking the sh-t out of

When we all recognize that such fever dreams aren't likely to become reality, it raises questions as to how beneficial us continuing to wish that they'd come to fruition is

 

[BaronOfHair]

I'm willing to listen to the input of posters. I just...

Yeah, you're still not hearing

 

[corrector]

Your marriage only lasted 9 months?

9 months is the "run-time" from the time I started dating my ex-wife (ie taking her out with me), to the time we stopped talking to each other.

The marriage, wedding, was within that 9 month frame. The marriage itself lasted only about 2-3 months.

Similarly, I had an ex-gf in 2012 where the run-time (ie time we met from online dating site to abrupt and total break-up / no contact - was 9 months as well).

With me it's like 9 months movies because it's very foreign with me to have a relationship or be with a woman for extended time like that and seems out of joint with the rest of my life. Like it is in another dimension almost.

As for the 8 month relationship, as embarrassed as I am to admit it, we said the L word (in retrospect, I don't think I meant it).

Why would you be embarassed to admit that.

Did she send you a special song that would highlight the height of the relationship?

My ex-gf send me this song to express her love towards me:

My ex-wife's song is this (ie she choose it for the wedding and I heard it on the radio when she popped back into the store):

Did your "ex" have a song to highlight her love for you within the 8 month relationship?

We had a planned future, yeah.

Did you go on hard no-contact afterwards or did you remain friends?

It's hard to pinpoint where exactly we fell apart. I remember on our last date, however, we were sitting a few feet away from each other (in the past, we had always been right next to each other). And you know what? Sitting a few feet away felt natural. At that point, I knew our relationship was finished.

I understand what you mean by "right next to each other". That was referenced in my now locked thread about Cringe Lunch/Social Experiment. I sat next to her a couple of times. This was someone at work. It is like I had to ask her if I could just sit next to her because I got jealous of another guy who did and I wanted to try it too. Well, I tried at least, even if it didn't work out or go anywhere.

In terms of my real exes, we had allot of close time together (ie ex wife, we were in the same bed together and were intimate, etc... backseat of car or whatever we did we were next to each other a bit to observe that "next to each other" like in your case, or even my ex-gf, as allot of time was spent together in the backseat of my car.

However, after being in a decade dry spell, yeah, that did sting this year with the "sitting next to a woman" thing when I tried that this year.
It helps if you are in a relationship with someone when you do that. Not the manager of a different division of the company. Now things have got awkard with that manager to the nth degree. Like you said, don't crap where you eat.

Different ideas, as well as cultural differences, both played a role in the dissolution of our relationship. Another factor was that it became harder and harder for us to meet up as time went on (I was working 2 jobs, she shared a car with her parents and sister, etc).

I also had a 10 month online relationship with a long-distance girl at one point (we never met in person). But I don't count that one (because it solely existed online)

It doesn't sound like your relationship came apart because something went wrong and the bottom just came off, like both of mine has. It sounds like it drifted apart. That could be bad too in its own right, but at least it does not feel like a plane crash.

Sometimes we don't count allot of things. I have a "relationship" with a Haitian girl since 2008/2009-2020 where she believes I"m her boyfriend and I'm not giving her strong enough messages that we are not in a relationship but she's like obsessed with thinking that there is something (ie last time I was physically with her was in 2013, which is a lenght of time since 2020). There was a penpal like relationship with someone I had in Guyana since 2008-2015 where we met in NYC. Again, it's not something I "count".

The things that usually "count" is if you really like the girl and plan to marry her and she's presentable enough to be feel proud that you have her. Since 2020 forward, I'd say I'm more in a hard dry-spell since there is no girl secretly in the background like it was the case in the 2010s.