Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[corrector]

That would make it easy, wouldn't it?

I was never so lucky. I had to work for it.

I forced myself to talk to women

Heartiste said that game is learned charisma

You learn through practice

Start small. "Hey, what kind of yogurt is that?"

As you do it more, it gets easier.

Talking to people is fun if you view it in the right way

Ok, point taken.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

What a shame to hear a lot of men are prone to misreading a woman's clues.

After some humiliations of mistaking niceness for interest, I ended up overcorrecting in the opposite direction (to where I now convince myself a woman isn't really into me, no matter how obvious the woman appears to be acting).

As for the one easy change that would drastically alter the dating/hookup landscape (but only if every available straight man did this in unison): If we stop making moves on women entirely.

When I shared this strategy with the coworker, he said "So you expect men to stop making moves on women? Sounds gay."

He failed to see the bigger picture. Yeah, in the short-term, I'm aware this strategy would lead to dry spells for lots of men. But as time goes on, if all available straight men continue to refrain from making moves on women, women would start propositioning men for dates/sex (because otherwise, no single woman would ever get a date or sex again)

That's not how it works. Your role as a male is to be a man and take a risk and be OK with it not working out. That's what Testosterone does for you. Or should.

Expecting women to play a male role would be like asking men to get pregnant. Why?

Accept the world as it is and accept your role in it. You can't lead when you can't even demonstrate to a woman why she should follow you and that you are worthy of leading to begin with.

Again...your poisoned mindset is what needs work here, and that has nothing to do with autism.

 

[HaleyBaron]

The key to women is through their mind. The key to getting in their mind is to be personable, confident and *slightly* ****y. The key to pulling that off successfully is practice. The key to practicing well is to learn the right material. The right material is book of pook.

What I did here is build you a success pyramid. When you start at the bottom of this period you build a foundation. As you advance into the phases above one by one you will reach the top. At the top is the person you want to be, who coincidentally attracts high value women because he has become a high value man.

The key is actually to master puberty that took over every boy's mind at the age of 12-13. Our minds literally get hijacked to start procreating with women. Before that, everyone boy was an alpha. Unfortunately, some boys don't get past the puberty hump women mindset cause the hormones are that strong. We really are suppose to grow out of during those years, but due to the western world, boys are kept from sex until they are 16-21 depending on the culture standards. That's a very long time being abstinent. This isn't discussed enough in the medical or psychological field due to said feminist standards. Meanwhile, women can start having sex as soon as they want. Society doesnt even punish them that much for it. It's pretty messed up.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I was never so lucky. I had to work for it.
I forced myself to talk to women

Oh, the suffering. Please stop, my eyes are getting misty.

 

[BaronOfHair]

He failed to see the bigger picture. Yeah, in the short-term, I'm aware this strategy would lead to dry spells for lots of men. But as time goes on, if all available straight men continue to refrain from making moves on women, women would start propositioning men for dates/sex (because otherwise, no single woman would ever get a date or sex again)

Alternate explanation:

He realized: "What GoodMan is proposing is similar to Feminists saying "We could get more young women to take their schoolwork seriously, become engineers, IF only shi-tloads of other folks in our civilization weren't offering them a lot of instantaneous money to take off their clothes on camera". Such fantasies aren't even worth being written off as pipe dreams"

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

OP needs therapy. Choose a therapist who has experience helping ASD folks navigate social environments. OP also has a crippling self defeating attitude that he conveniently hangs on the ASD label, and I'm sure a fair bit of that is legit, but it is ALL defeatist and rate limiting.

The purpose of therapy is to understand yourself better, become better equipped with tools and behavioral strategies to get better adjusted to the world around you, and to quit reciting your conquests like a score card and expecting human interactions to be formulaic.

That is NOT reality.

Therapy will help you understand yourself better and understand the inherent messy illogical way humans relate to each other, something which must be ACCEPTED at the same time you seek better understanding of it.

Nobody here is qualified as a therapist to deal with your ASD compounded by other issues and faulty belief system.

Find someone who specializes in nuerodiverse/ASD people. This is much deeper seated than the scorecard of who you have and haven't had sex with and who you have and haven't paid for sex.

And yes. You need to openly discuss all this in therapy so the therapist understands your issues and how to help you navigate them.

This is out of our collective league.

 

[BaronOfHair]

So if you could do that as a little kid and you knew the best way to improve at something is to keep working at and working at it, why are adults unable to simply get out of their own way with their negativity, self doubt and terrible self talk that basically ensures they will never improve and just give up?

'Tis the downside of acquiring more information, which we inevitably do, the longer we're alive. It's easy to then become like ol' Dale here

By making talking AROUND topics we find uncomfortable, rather than about them, our forte. That's where membership in a men's group (Even a de facto one which exists entirely online, like SS)comes in handy... We ALL need a Taber in our life, to occasionally remind us to knock off the bullsh-t, and get to the central point. In The OP's case, this might look like

-Finally fessing up having Mommy issues(Who among us doesn't, to a degree)which have gotten way out of hand, and that he's seeking a replacement for what he wishes he received in early childhood. Despite the fact that he ain't a child anymore(Physically, at least), and no sane woman is going to be remotely eager to be his substitute mommy, who also takes him into her bed on a regular basis

-Admitting that Mommy issues aren't his problem... He's just terrified of pursuing a woman his own age or a decade younger, possibly falling for her, because intellectually he knows this(Like everything else in life)will be impermanent. So to avoid the pain which will accompany such a loss, he seeks out women he knows are either highly unlikely to desire him, or who might agree to a very brief fling. So brief, that no emotional connection forms, and he can go through life unscathed and less than fulfilled

 

[GoodMan32]

Alternate explanation:

He realized: "What GoodMan is proposing is similar to Feminists saying "We could get more young women to take their schoolwork seriously, become engineers, IF only shi-tloads of other folks in our civilization weren't offering them a lot of instantaneous money to take off their clothes on camera". Such fantasies aren't even worth being written off as pipe dreams"

I had a high school teacher who struggled a lot financially as a kid/young adult. During young adulthood, he did a lot of stuff the average person wouldn't want to do...but in the end, he managed to get himself into a decent place financially (teachers, at least in the state I went to high school in, are comfortably middle class).

I remember him saying once (about the sacrifices he made during young adulthood) "If I could do it, why couldn't everyone?"

There's somewhere I'm going with this story. For the past 9 years or so, I've barely made a move on any woman. If I can do it, couldn't every man?

It wouldn't take anywhere near 9 years to notice a difference if every man did this by the way. Within 9 months, we'd start to notice a drastic difference (in terms of broads becoming more bold with coming onto us)

 

[GoodMan32]

Advice from the old lady:

OP needs therapy. Choose a therapist who has experience helping ASD folks navigate social environments. OP also has a crippling self defeating attitude that he conveniently hangs on the ASD label, and I'm sure a fair bit of that is legit, but it is ALL defeatist and rate limiting.

The purpose of therapy is to understand yourself better, become better equipped with tools and behavioral strategies to get better adjusted to the world around you, and to quit reciting your conquests like a score card and expecting human interactions to be formulaic.

That is NOT reality.

Therapy will help you understand yourself better and understand the inherent messy illogical way humans relate to each other, something which must be ACCEPTED at the same time you seek better understanding of it.

Nobody here is qualified as a therapist to deal with your ASD compounded by other issues and faulty belief system.

Find someone who specializes in nuerodiverse/ASD people. This is much deeper seated than the scorecard of who you have and haven't had sex with and who you have and haven't paid for sex.

And yes. You need to openly discuss all this in therapy so the therapist understands your issues and how to help you navigate them.

This is out of our collective league.

As a matter of fact, I've been going to therapy. My therapist knows I'm on the spectrum (he also knows a lot of my backstory as far as my history with the ladies).

He said he's worked with others on the spectrum too. I've only been going to this therapy practice since the beginning of June. I'm confident he'll help as time goes on (it's too early to tell right now)

 

[BaronOfHair]

Advice from the old lady:

OP needs therapy. Choose a therapist who has experience helping ASD folks navigate social environments. OP also has a crippling self defeating attitude that he conveniently hangs on the ASD label, and I'm sure a fair bit of that is legit, but it is ALL defeatist and rate limiting.

The purpose of therapy is to understand yourself better, become better equipped with tools and behavioral strategies to get better adjusted to the world around you, and to quit reciting your conquests like a score card and expecting human interactions to be formulaic.

That is NOT reality.

Therapy will help you understand yourself better and understand the inherent messy illogical way humans relate to each other, something which must be ACCEPTED at the same time you seek better understanding of it.

Nobody here is qualified as a therapist to deal with your ASD compounded by other issues and faulty belief system.

Find someone who specializes in nuerodiverse/ASD people. This is much deeper seated than the scorecard of who you have and haven't had sex with and who you have and haven't paid for sex.

And yes. You need to openly discuss all this in therapy so the therapist understands your issues and how to help you navigate them.

This is out of our collective league.

You've hardly been the first who's urged OP to seek out a skillful shrink. His verbatim response, earlier in this very thread: "No amount of therapy will change the fact condoms can break or slip off. All therapy could do is try to convince me to accept the risk. I have no interest in accepting the risk"

Dude's current mindset makes it very unlikely that he'll be especially receptive to even the most sophisticated psychotherapy. I say this as someone who himself was once similarly unreachable

 

[BeExcellent]

You've hardly been the first who's urged OP to seek out a skillful shrink. His verbatim response, earlier in this very thread: "No amount of therapy will change the fact condoms can break or slip off. All therapy could do is try to convince me to accept the risk. I have no interest in accepting the risk"

Dude's current mindset makes it very unlikely that he'll be especially receptive to even the most sophisticated psychotherapy. I say this as someone who himself was once similarly unreachable

Both you and @TheCanadian have stated this. It's a process and will need time to work. My husband is very high functioning ASD as well. It introduces challenges in the relationship but we see a good therapist who helps us learn productive ways to communicate & relate better. There is no shame in openly IDing and dealing with these kinds of things. Part of the reason I am so frank with OP is that my husband could have used it as an excuse.....but he never has had issues attracting girls & starting relationships. Maintaining has been a different story until now, but that is multifactorial.

So I know ASD isn't so much the issue here. Contributing factor? You bet. But it's been OP's excuse.

My husband was only recently diagnosed, and struggles with the label or his perception of the label.....but it explains very thoroughly his pervasive communication and social dynamic issues at work, with family, in his sport and in his relationships. So the struggle to accept being wired differently is very real. I have a front row seat. I am well aware.

 

[GoodMan32]

You've hardly been the first who's urged OP to seek out a skillful shrink. His verbatim response, earlier in this very thread: "No amount of therapy will change the fact condoms can break or slip off. All therapy could do is try to convince me to accept the risk. I have no interest in accepting the risk"

Dude's current mindset makes it very unlikely that he'll be especially receptive to even the most sophisticated psychotherapy. I say this as someone who himself was once similarly unreachable

Umm, I'm pretty sure the poster you're quoting was urging me to go to therapy because of various other issues (not the condom/pregnancy thing)

 

[BaronOfHair]

Both you and @TheCanadian have stated this. It's a process and will need time to work. My husband is very high functioning ASD as well. It introduces challenges in the relationship but we see a good therapist who helps us learn productive ways to communicate & relate better. There is no shame in openly IDing and dealing with these kinds of things. Part of the reason I am so frank with OP is that my husband could have used it as an excuse.....but he never has had issues attracting girls & starting relationships. Maintaining has been a different story until now, but that is multifactorial.

So I know ASD isn't so much the issue here. Contributing factor? You bet. But it's been OP's excuse.

My husband was only recently diagnosed, and struggles with the label or his perception of the label.....but it explains very thoroughly his pervasive communication and social dynamic issues at work, with family, in his sport and in his relationships. So the struggle to accept being wired differently is very real. I have a front row seat. I am well aware.

I'll expand on a few of The Canadian's prior words ("I wouldn't be surprised if I could be diagnosed as having "high functioning" autism as well"), by re-iterating a running joke: "Just as most women are Borderline to some degree, most men are somewhere on the autism spectrum". While I don't deny that ailments like BPD and Autism exist, the advent of Therapy Speak has cursed us with a culture where things like run of the mill poor emotional control, social awkwardness, and the perfectly human inclination to justify these annoying habits are now being diagnosed as full-blown disorders. Same way the criteria for receiving a diagnosis of clinical depression has been growing increasingly elastic over the past few decades

OP has can easily start engaging in bibliotherapy today, by listening to that audiobook linked in two prior posts, taking notes, and practicing what he learns. All he has to do is stop making excuses, and get to work

 

[GoodMan32]

Both you and @TheCanadian have stated this. It's a process and will need time to work. My husband is very high functioning ASD as well. It introduces challenges in the relationship but we see a good therapist who helps us learn productive ways to communicate & relate better. There is no shame in openly IDing and dealing with these kinds of things. Part of the reason I am so frank with OP is that my husband could have used it as an excuse.....but he never has had issues attracting girls & starting relationships. Maintaining has been a different story until now, but that is multifactorial.

So I know ASD isn't so much the issue here. Contributing factor? You bet. But it's been OP's excuse.

My husband was only recently diagnosed, and struggles with the label or his perception of the label.....but it explains very thoroughly his pervasive communication and social dynamic issues at work, with family, in his sport and in his relationships. So the struggle to accept being wired differently is very real. I have a front row seat. I am well aware.

Like your husband, maintaining relationships has been a challenge for me. Longest relationship was 8 months. Every other relationship has been much shorter.

It's inteteresting though that you mention your husband never had a hard time attracting the ladies. That's where we differ (Or let's put it this way: I rarely pick up on interest from the ladies. It's possible there have been a lot of gals attracted to me, without me realizing).

One thing I should point out: I found out I was on the spectrum in middle school. When I was in college, I convinced myself I had outgrown being on the spectrum (I've since learned being on the spectrum is something you never outgrow).

Even with convincing myself I wasn't on the spectrum during college, I still struggled with the ladies. My point? Whether I use the spectrum thing as an excuse (like I do now) or not (like during college), I struggle.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Both you and @TheCanadian have stated this. It's a process and will need time to work. My husband is very high functioning ASD as well. It introduces challenges in the relationship but we see a good therapist who helps us learn productive ways to communicate & relate better. There is no shame in openly IDing and dealing with these kinds of things. Part of the reason I am so frank with OP is that my husband could have used it as an excuse.....but he never has had issues attracting girls & starting relationships. Maintaining has been a different story until now, but that is multifactorial.

So I know ASD isn't so much the issue here. Contributing factor? You bet. But it's been OP's excuse.

My husband was only recently diagnosed, and struggles with the label or his perception of the label.....but it explains very thoroughly his pervasive communication and social dynamic issues at work, with family, in his sport and in his relationships. So the struggle to accept being wired differently is very real. I have a front row seat. I am well aware.

a woman who joined this forum? how did you and your husband meet each other? i assume you and him both started dating each other wile in your 20s?

 

[BaronOfHair]

It wouldn't take anywhere near 9 years to notice a difference if every man did this by the way. Within 9 months, we'd start to notice a drastic difference (in terms of broads becoming more bold with coming onto us)

If a large cross-section of America went along with the recommendations("Drop out of civilization completely... If you need cash, beg for just enough to survive on Patreon")of every MGTOW content creator on YouTube(Most of whom are themselves married men, leading upper-middle class lives as Z list celebrities), we'd notice a drastic difference within a week. Everything from the financial sector, to the tech industry, to the medical field, to public services like fire and sanitation departments would cease to operate

How likely is it that anything more than a small sliver of the world's population will ultimately do what MGTOWs are urging though? Probabilities Vs Possibilities

 

[BaronOfHair]

Umm, I'm pretty sure the poster you're quoting was urging me to go to therapy because of various other issues (not the condom/pregnancy thing)

I AM the poster who was urging you to seek out a solid Cognitive Behavioral shrink. Preferably one who's had a fair-exhaustive amount of formal training post-university, from somewhere like The Beck or Ellis Institute, and who regularly updates and refreshes his or her education. These fixations on a condom breaking/a girl getting pregnant, are clearly a symptom of a much deeper psychopathology

If nothing else, listen to that previously linked audiobook, take notes, and practice everything that's being gifted to you, FREE of charge. Clogging up cyberspace with hairbrained rationalizations and excuses for NOT accepting the aid so many have provided you with is, quite frankly, disrespectful

 

[corrector]

Like your husband, maintaining relationships has been a challenge for me. Longest relationship was 8 months. Every other relationship has been much shorter.

Mines have been 9 months, so it's longer than your by one month. What was the quality of the 8 month relationship? Did you both exchange I love yous and planned a future but something go wrong and it abruptly came apart or was it more casual than that?

 

[GoodMan32]

If a large cross-section of America went along with the recommendations("Drop out of civilization completely... If you need cash, beg for just enough to survive on Patreon")of every MGTOW content creator on YouTube(Most of whom are themselves married men, leading upper-middle class lives as Z list celebrities), we'd notice a drastic difference within a week. Everything from the financial sector, to the tech industry, to the medical field, to public services like fire and sanitation departments would cease to operate

How likely is it that anything more than a small sliver of the world's population will ultimately do what MGTOWs are urging though? Probabilities Vs Possibilities

Dropping out of civilization entirely is a lot more drastic than taking a break from making moves on the ladies.

Here's what I really don't get: Even if you're totally willing to make a move on a woman, wouldn't you still be ecstatic if we had a society where women threw themselves at men?

That's what my idea would lead to: A society where they throw themselves at us.

 

[GoodMan32]

I AM the poster who was urging you to seek out a solid Cognitive Behavioral shrink. Preferably one who's had a fair-exhaustive amount of formal training post-university, from somewhere like The Beck or Ellis Institute, and who regularly updates and refreshes his or her education. These fixations on a condom breaking/a girl getting pregnant, are clearly a symptom of a much deeper psychopathology

If nothing else, listen to that previously linked audiobook, take notes, and practice everything that's being gifted to you, FREE of charge. Clogging up cyberspace with hairbrained rationalizations and excuses for NOT accepting the aid so many have provided you with is, quite frankly, disrespectful

I know you recommended therapy.

The one female poster on here recommended therapy too (to which I let her know I'm in therapy).

I'm willing to listen to the input of posters. I just draw a hard line on 2 things.