The Great Irony of the SMV theory

[zekko]

Zekko - true dat but its also realistic and mature to accept that past say 35 with each year all else equal our pulling power is less, that's just life.

Maybe you're right, I don't know. But I don't feel affected by it. Then again, I'm not trying to live a player lifestyle either, so maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[SteR]

Zekko - true dat but its also realistic and mature to accept that past say 35 with each year all else equal our pulling power is less, that's just life.

But how can you say that? I honestly don't see how moving from say age 35 to 36 is going to make any difference to your value whatsoever. If your value is dropping then it's more than likely something to do with letting yourself go physically or in your career or whatever. I don't see how a minor change in the time you've been on this planet can make you less valuable until you hit a stage where you can't fight the aging process and you look unattractive.

 

[Scormus]

I stay in great shape. And true 35 to 36 is little different. But 35 to 60 is huge. It is like a pro athlete aging - one year to the next is imperceptible but before you know it you are 60 and those little differences add up to a lot.

Its not even your looks per se but how for example online women more than 10 years younger almost never respond.

 

[Zarky]

Recently I took a look through facebook and it dawned on my how horribly all of the girls I used to pine over have turned out.

Ha! I was doing that just yesterday. I was like "Damn, I had a huuuuge crush on that girl and now she looks like somebody's mom." And in fact she was

At this stage it just feels like 'why bother?'.

That's why I make a sport of boning as many new girls as possible. It's fun and a worthy pastime.

 

[SteR]

That's why I make a sport of boning as many new girls as possible. It's fun and a worthy pastime.

Part of me wishes I could do that. The problem is it weighs too heavily on my conscience

 

[synergy1]

The times I went out west and even back to Texas I've had better results with women than here. But BB and his friends are in southern California and his friends are still struggling there. Isn't there lots of good looking women in southern california even in their 30's and older?

There are hordes of good looking women there, and its a gold mine. His friends have to be doing really poorly with the game if they are striking out there. I literally cleaned it up there - 100 times easier than where I live without a question. Everyone I know that goes out there for work says the exact same thing. However, it could be a foreign/ exotic spin that makes new england guys do well there. I was told by several women that I met that I was more aggressive and hustled more than most guys down there so maybe that played into it?


Hyper-competiton is not good and is stressful. Only men have to compete and not women anyway. If women were actually competiting for men then men wouldn't be facing hyper-competition in the first place.

Women more or less compete with other women. If your body is on display 365 days of the year and everyone looks good, this creates competition. This is completely polarized from where I live and women look AWFUL. I have seen ( and ****ed) 40 year old women from So Cal that look better than most 28 year olds here. If a women has a kid, forget it. Women here are ugly and control the dating scene...they know it.

I went on a date when I was in cali and asked why the women were so nice. My date said that most women find it hard to get dates. She also said most men aren't as aggressive and that there is a lot of competition to look good. Again this is one sample, and also I know we can't listen to what women say. But if she is saying she feels competition to look hot, than I am not sure why she would lie or embellish this.


I'm not entirely discounting what you're saying. Some parts of the country have less attractive women and the women are more difficult. But the only time women had to actually compete for men is back when there was monogamy. Women, had to be youthful, pure, thin, attractive, feminine etc to get a man to commit. When it's just hook ups, women don't have to compete to get guys they find attractive.

Maybe you are right and that women really feel no sense of urgency. This is 100% accurate for where I live now. Maybe this isn't the case in the other places I have been too. I'll give you that I have not been to said places too often so my opinions are not as formulated as someone who is from the areas. Further, the opinions from others are still subject to bias as well.

Here is all I know based on the topic of this thread: While most men never really create much currency in the sexual marketplace - I feel that those who do can reap favorable results with women into their 30s. Are we going to get that smokeshow that only wants to **** pro athletes? probably not. But we probably weren't either. There is a scale to these things and people date in their leagues. Odds are age isn't keeping out of those leagues. I am okay with that. Work with what you got...go out there hustle...have fun. Good things will happen.

 

[nismo-4]

Synergy, women control the dating game. As in the men have to put in their bids and the woman + her friends + her hamster will decide whether to accept or reject you. And if you reject a woman, she might act hurt, but there's a legion of beta males in her phone she can call up and replace your ass in a new york second.

If only more men would make women more replaceable. But being the male penis really has little sexual value in the marketplace, there's a reason why sperm is cheap and eggs are expensive, and women do the choosing.

What would the dating game be like if there were no beta males in it?

 

[backbreaker]

The times I went out west and even back to Texas I've had better results with women than here. But BB and his friends are in southern California and his friends are still struggling there. Isn't there lots of good looking women in southern california even in their 30's and older?

There are hordes of good looking women there, and its a gold mine. His friends have to be doing really poorly with the game if they are striking out there. I literally cleaned it up there - 100 times easier than where I live without a question. Everyone I know that goes out there for work says the exact same thing. However, it could be a foreign/ exotic spin that makes new england guys do well there. I was told by several women that I met that I was more aggressive and hustled more than most guys down there so maybe that played into it?


Hyper-competiton is not good and is stressful. Only men have to compete and not women anyway. If women were actually competiting for men then men wouldn't be facing hyper-competition in the first place.

Women more or less compete with other women. If your body is on display 365 days of the year and everyone looks good, this creates competition. This is completely polarized from where I live and women look AWFUL. I have seen ( and ****ed) 40 year old women from So Cal that look better than most 28 year olds here. If a women has a kid, forget it. Women here are ugly and control the dating scene...they know it.

I went on a date when I was in cali and asked why the women were so nice. My date said that most women find it hard to get dates. She also said most men aren't as aggressive and that there is a lot of competition to look good. Again this is one sample, and also I know we can't listen to what women say. But if she is saying she feels competition to look hot, than I am not sure why she would lie or embellish this.


I'm not entirely discounting what you're saying. Some parts of the country have less attractive women and the women are more difficult. But the only time women had to actually compete for men is back when there was monogamy. Women, had to be youthful, pure, thin, attractive, feminine etc to get a man to commit. When it's just hook ups, women don't have to compete to get guys they find attractive.

Maybe you are right and that women really feel no sense of urgency. This is 100% accurate for where I live now. Maybe this isn't the case in the other places I have been too. I'll give you that I have not been to said places too often so my opinions are not as formulated as someone who is from the areas. Further, the opinions from others are still subject to bias as well.

Here is all I know based on the topic of this thread: While most men never really create much currency in the sexual marketplace - I feel that those who do can reap favorable results with women into their 30s. Are we going to get that smokeshow that only wants to **** pro athletes? probably not. But we probably weren't either. There is a scale to these things and people date in their leagues. Odds are age isn't keeping out of those leagues. I am okay with that. Work with what you got...go out there hustle...have fun. Good things will happen.

This is what gets me. you take a normal dude that he will never drive a bentley and he is fine with it lol. you tell a normal dude that he will nver have a house on the beach / ocean front with the patio overlooking the ocean.. he's fine with that he finds comfort in his middle class 150k house.

you tell a dude he will never stay in a 1000 a night hotel and he's fine with the marriot


but tell that same guy that he will never date that 9.5HB that is working at the gym and dammit that's the last straw lol. that's it. now the world is ****ed up and he can't take it anymore. Now the world is wrong and is an injustice and it has to be fixed or else!

IF that same dude can just learn to find comfort in what he can get, then dammit it is what it is.

some times really need to just work on yourself but ****.. there comes a time when you have to sit down and give an honest assessment of what you can and can't pull. it doesn't mean you should not be trying to improve but i mean, if you never pulled a HB9 in your life, don't get pissy when they keep rejecting you lol

 

[Zarky]

Synergy, women control the dating game.

As I've said time and again, anyone who actually looks around at the outside world of human interactions realizes that this isn't the case.

Who controls the sale of the car on an automobile lot? The salesman or the buyer? Answer is: neither one. It's a negotiation. Both sides have roughly equal control. In individual cases the power balance may shift -- a salesman needs to make a sale to hit quota or a buyer just ran his previous car into a tree -- but overall the dynamic is balanced.

Market forces determine whether or not you get any p*ssy and how much you pay for it. Understand how to maximize your bargaining power and you win. Fail to do so, and you lose. Simple as that.

 

[Stagger Lee]

There is roughly the same number of men and women in the 20s to 30s age range (there are slightly more women than men overall). At least some women must be dating at or below their level. Either that, or the vast majority of women are single at any given time. If females are fvcking a small percentage of guys (presumably young, good looking guys), then demand for these guys must vastly exceed supply. But there's now a surplus of these dudes in clubs?

If every male paired off with one female, you would get mostly matched looks couples. But women HB1-7 especially are hesistant to get sexual with males under an 8. As far as hook ups go it works like this:

At any and every given moment of time, only about 5-15% of females are willing to get sexual with 5-15% of the 80-95% of sexually available men. So the top 5-15% of men take all the available sex. And so it goes 24/7 throughout the year. You might rarely/ocassionally be a 5-15% guy but you have to be better than average and it often requires you to date down.

This is the whole sexual market in a nutshell. All the females HB1-10 are only available sexually at any given time to the male population at maybe 15% rate, while all males are sexually available to females 80-95%.

 

[evan12]

This is the whole sexual market in a nutshell. All the females HB1-10 are only available sexually at any given time to the male population at maybe 15% rate, while all males are sexually available to females 80-95%.

put movie starts aside , can you show me some pics of some of these 15% males that 85% of females are available for them ?

 

[Stagger Lee]

put movie starts aside , can you show me some pics of some of these 15% males that 85% of females are available for them ?

My point wasn't that just the same 15% of males have 85% of women available. Although the very top looking guys probably could juggle many of the women (10% of the men could juggle 40% of the women, the next 10% could juggle maybe another 20% for instance) but are not necessarily having sex with them at the same time. My point is at any given time only about 15% of the women are sexually available to all the sexually available men which is essentially all men. Although I would say women are only actually available ever to about 50% of the men about 10% of the time.

Of that 15% of sexually available women there could be HB1-4 hooking up with male 5-7s for instance.

The point is men are always over whelmingly more sexually available than women are so women can pick and choose to date up looks wise and men tend to have to date down, or stand on their heads, try different game tactics etc.

Let me put it this way, even if you had a bar full of typical women and all the men were models, the women might be attracted to most of the men but due to natural forces and nature still I wouldn't be surprised if less than 20% of the guys would get laid that night. Women will create and imagine reason to not fvck-not because they're not slvts or not attracted, but by nature. Men are competing for sex because they have too high demand, or women deliver to low of supply.

 

[Mike32ct]

I've gone out plenty of nights where women outnumbered men. It was not a paradise for the men. I've stayed until closing time and witnessed probably 5 percent (generous) or less of the guys leave with somebody. B@tch shields weren't really any lower due to oversupply of females.

There are many reasons for this. A lot of women are taken or already have FWBs so they don't need the club guys. But most of all, women generally will avoid sex rather than hook up with a guy she thinks is sub-par. Women generally won't "take one for the team" lol. Plus large groups of females are mostly AW sessions like birthday or bachelorette parties.

Anyway, even more favorable ratios don't help the average looking guy.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I've gone out plenty of nights where women outnumbered men. It was not a paradise for the men. I've stayed until closing time and witnessed probably 5 percent (generous) or less of the guys leave with somebody. B@tch shields weren't really any lower due to oversupply of females.

There are many reasons for this. A lot of women are taken or already have FWBs so they don't need the club guys. But most of all, women generally will avoid sex rather than hook up with a guy she thinks is sub-par. Women generally won't "take one for the team" lol.

Most the time when I roll into a bar usual late there are about 2-3x as many men than women. And sometime around 1-1:30 am most of the girls disappear and there are more and more men (many decent looking) and less women (and less attractive) in relation.

But sometimes usually at a college type bar on an off night I will see many more women there than men. Here's what I see happening in those cases. The girls are in huge groups and maybe with a guy or two. Usually the girls start leaving because there's not enough male attention from hot guys, because there aren't enough hot guys there. They get on their phones typing in their big groups, and then soon men start showing up out of the wood work lol. Before I know it through a combination of females leaving and males that appear to be mutual acquantances getting the notice, all the girls soon have a decent looking guy talking to her.

Even if that doesn't happen and there remains more women than men, like you said the b!tch shield still are not significantly any lower. The girls just sit together chatting away in their big groups with their one or two males and act just as hard to get when approached.

 

[Boilermaker]

This is what gets me. you take a normal dude that he will never drive a bentley and he is fine with it lol. you tell a normal dude that he will nver have a house on the beach / ocean front with the patio overlooking the ocean.. he's fine with that he finds comfort in his middle class 150k house.

you tell a dude he will never stay in a 1000 a night hotel and he's fine with the marriot


but tell that same guy that he will never date that 9.5HB that is working at the gym and dammit that's the last straw lol. that's it. now the world is ****ed up and he can't take it anymore. Now the world is wrong and is an injustice and it has to be fixed or else!

IF that same dude can just learn to find comfort in what he can get, then dammit it is what it is.

some times really need to just work on yourself but ****.. there comes a time when you have to sit down and give an honest assessment of what you can and can't pull. it doesn't mean you should not be trying to improve but i mean, if you never pulled a HB9 in your life, don't get pissy when they keep rejecting you lol

best post of your life.

something hit you on the head. seriously. last 6 months, think about it.

 

[Stagger Lee]

but tell that same guy that he will never date that 9.5HB that is working at the gym and dammit that's the last straw lol. that's it. now the world is ****ed up and he can't take it anymore. Now the world is wrong and is an injustice and it has to be fixed or else!

IF that same dude can just learn to find comfort in what he can get, then dammit it is what it is.

some times really need to just work on yourself but ****.. there comes a time when you have to sit down and give an honest assessment of what you can and can't pull. it doesn't mean you should not be trying to improve but i mean, if you never pulled a HB9 in your life, don't get pissy when they keep rejecting you lol

There's some truth to that but I think putting HB ratings aside most average to slightly above average men are mad that they can't pull anything regularly that isn't fat, ageing and borderline hideous.

Really most women have nothing to offer besides their looks. Women are naturally suppose to be good looking and personable. Besides men are naturally attracted to women and women naturally tend to have features that make most women attractive to men.

Most women are average. The average woman is pretty fat and has a crappy attitude and personality. The average woman could be a lot more desirable if she tried but women don't have to try. And really a lot of guys' rate females 8's and 9's who are really nothing more than average to slightly above average girls dolled up only that they don't let themselves get fat and unattractive.

I don't think men are the unreasonable ones about looks and are only happy with dating someone out of their league. Women are. Women rate as much as 80% of men below average in some studies. It's just ridiculous.

 

[backbreaker]

without seeing my two friends in action yet, that's coming somewhat tonight, i would venture to say that the number 1 cause of avg looking guys not being able to pull avg looking women is because the avg looking guys, are giving themselves too much credit in the looks department.


i can only speak from my experience, but when i am single and i am in shape i have had absolutely no problem at all pulling decent looking women no matter where i lived or how much money i made. i got access to women i did not have access to as i improved myself but just, to be able to pull a decent looking woman or get one to look at me that has never been a problem as long as i've been in shape.


also keep in mind how dating in the real world works. sosuave would have you think that you go to the dating store and some dude checks your status level and then assigns you to the HB pile that you belong in lol. the real world does not work like that. IN the real world a guy is only able to date what he can meet or what he knows, and his options are limited to what he can see. I'm sure if you put my 2 friends in a room full of 100 single HB6's or 7's a few of them would bite but that's not fiesable.

And they aren't at my level looks wise / in the shape i'm in to where they are "head turning"good looking

 

[Scormus]

BB - you must have the height and not to be politically incorrect but I am guessing you are white.

I am ethnic Asian and not to make excuses but it is an empirical fact that Asian men do worse with white women (response rates 75% lower online).

I can't complain about the action I do get and have been out with some solid 8s but god it still shocks me how some 6s can read delete my messages so ruthlessly and how many girls I have to write to get dates.

Even then I am very westernised - fit/toned body, 5'11" in lifts and list myself as such.

I don't think I overrate my looks but to some women, Asian = ugly.

I would even go so far as to say/admit that maybe its not any explicit race card at work but perhaps Asian men are simply less physically attractive to women on average. Some of us are hunks and some are ugly just like white guys, but on average we are shorter and less muscular.

Height and muscularity are objectively things that women value very highly when it comes to physical attraction.

It sucks for me but thats life.

6'2 jacked guy vs. 5'9 toned guy all else equal the former wins every time.

 

[zekko]

I honestly don't see how moving from say age 35 to 36 is going to make any difference to your value whatsoever. If your value is dropping then it's more than likely something to do with letting yourself go physically or in your career or whatever.

Generally speaking, a man's career and finances improve with age, while his physique drops gradually. Looks-wise, men age gracefully, which is a plus.

I stay in great shape. And true 35 to 36 is little different. But 35 to 60 is huge. It is like a pro athlete aging - one year to the next is imperceptible but before you know it you are 60 and those little differences add up to a lot.

Roger Federer is 32, and his prime as a tennis player is now well behind him. To look at him, he looks like he is in as good a shape as he has ever been. But there are imperceptible changes that have occurred that do not allow his body to respond as quickly or as well as they used to.

So for athletes in certain sports, the end can come quickly. But dating value is something that can last a good deal longer.

but tell that same guy that he will never date that 9.5HB that is working at the gym and dammit that's the last straw lol. that's it. now the world is ****ed up and he can't take it anymore. Now the world is wrong and is an injustice and it has to be fixed or else!

That's quite profound, lol. It just goes to show that men desire attractive women, moreso than luxury cars. Maybe it's wrong, but men take this sort of thing very personally. Maybe it's "taking validation", but there's a suggestion that the level of beauty in the women you attract says something about the value of the man himself.

 

[backbreaker]

BB - you must have the height and not to be politically incorrect but I am guessing you are white.

lol I'm 5'8 and i'm black. my wife is white and 5'11.