The Great Irony of the SMV theory

[disgustipated]

Its cuz us older guys grew up in times where there were semblences of MEN. It's testosterone that's throwing these beeches off because they're surrounded by femmy douche girly boys ....that's their norm...the difference is offputting.

 

[hockeyfreak79]

The irony is that men value love and women love value. No matter the age of women, women still will be doing the choosing.

Women in their later years have bitter baggage, but they still have no problems getting dates. Since a woman, regardless of age, only has to make it known she's available to have a line-up of suitors, that's why they can make the dating game tough for men, and social media glorifying women really isn't helping men. I've noticed that older guys struggle with younger women, and a lot of men struggle with women of all ages. So many men have lowered their standards it's inflating the value of women highly! Even a woman past 70 and a fatass woman have more options than men in their 20s!

Women look at men's overall value.

YES YES YES

I'll admit it after my divorce I lowered my standards for a 27yr(spicy Latina) tons of fun all around. She treated me like a king. Way more enjoyable than the 35yr bitter as hell, insecurities of the charts. All liked to party a lot. The 30yr old the same, but she was a bore beside the strip club visits.

I'm an introvert and have no issues finding dates, but it's the quality that sucks more than anything. No one said it would be easy at this age, but with age comes wisdom.

NO DOUBT I will stick to chicks below 30, anything beyond that the bitterness is not worth it at all. Thanks to SS I have finally learned that lesson.

 

[Mike32ct]

I agree with BB on this topic. Spot on.

<I joined this thread late.>

 

[Zunder]

Well, are they looking to get laid a bit, or are they looking for a wifey?
Big difference.

You guys are in America right? It can't be hard to pick up a few bar skanks, ball them, spin them.

I get the feeling these mates of yours are looking for something more serious. With American women? Good luck with that!

 

[backbreaker]

I'm 70% sure bb is just AWing but here's my take anyway. There is no irony. It completely depends on how much value you've amassed from my own observations.

All other things being equal the guy in his twenties will probably win, but so many of the things that chicks dig - money, power, status - are acquired through age. Fact.

My senior manager at 34, just got engaged to one of the hottest girls I've ever seen, which he brought with him to one of our firm's Gala dinners. Of course he spent his twenties working his ass off in our firm, learnt 2 languages to near fluency before 30 and is well traveled - all round a pretty interesting guy.

In fact at that Gala dinner a good 30-40% of senior management were bringing women approaching amateur model territory. Of course these guys are all making 6 figures so maybe they're all gold diggers, but the point still stands.

Invest in yourself early and your options will thrive with you.

you spend so much time trying to AMOG me that you didn't bother to read my post. maybe that's why you should stop posting in the MM section since you aren't 25

i 'm not talking about senior managers, or guys with money or guys that are absolutely jacked. i'm talking about normal ass guys. normal ass, 35k a year, 6-7 on the looks scale, guys. Contrary to internet personas, this is most guys. just about.. well at least 80% of the men i know make about 30-45k a year, aren't ugly but aren't hot, aren't in ****ty shape but aren't in great shape. don't have alot of real negatives but don't have a lot of real positives. This is most guys. i'm speaking for these guys. I'm the only guy I know that makes over 100k a year. I'm the only guy I know personally outside of my mother that even sniffs 100k a year. some years she makes a little bit more some a little bit less but 100k is about what she avgs now. and it took her 15 years to get to that point she's almost 50. most guys aren't pushing luxury cars. I know 2 guys that personally drive cars that are worth over 60k outside of myself. one is my wife's best friends fiancee who drives a bmw 5 series and the ohter is my dad who just bought a new Mercedes. my wife doesn't even drive a car that expensive she drives a used mercedes convertable. so most guys whip game in real life isn't ballarffiic.

I mean, yeah the way out of the rat race is to becomel... lol.. me rotfl... but for everyone.

you know what a good analogy is here.. the 2012 presidental election. I mean, I've made something of myself and i'm proud of myself and i honestly believe that anyone can do things they want to do if they are willing to work for it and be patient. but let's be realistic. not everyone is going to be a 1% er. yes of course being a 1%er is going to get you hot women but what about the other 99%? i'm talking about the 95%-98% of guys who aren't managers who aren't jacked with 10 packs, who weren't blessed with stupidly good looks. how does the SMV theory work for them?

in a way, and please let's not turn this into a political thing i dont' want to talk politics, but guys who buy into to the SMV theory are really no different than republicans who want to cut taxes on the rich because they are going to be 1%ers one day.

i'm not convinced their value goes up simply because they get older which flys in the face of the SMV theory.


no one is ****ing telling you that if you don't improve yourself you won't get laid, but **** that is not exclusive to being over 30 lol. you can improve yourself and get laid in your teens, or your 20's. the actual act of getting older in itself is not going to get you more women.


as i stated in my post to synergy

for the theory to work a regular ass guy should be having an easier time getting quality ***** than he had in his 20's and i am not seeing that. that's ALL i am saying. nothing more nothing less.

 

[Zarky]

My personal experience is that 30-something guys have no problems pulling. 40-something guys have even less problem.

However, you can't do it in the way that 20-something guys do it.

If you're 35 or older.....

NO:
-Clubs
-Bars (iffy)
-"Day Game"
-"Mall Game"

YES:
-Tennis/golf clubs
-Crossfit (if you like ripped chicks)
-Yoga
-Community college classes
-Special interest clubs
-Wine tasting
-Dance classes

Basically you've got to step it up in sophistication level. And why wouldn't you want to, anyway? You're a full-fledged adult, you're not going to be standing around in clubs and hitting on women with dozens of other chodes wearing Ed Hardy, music blaring so loud you can't hear your own words, and bouncers giving you stink-eye.

That stuff is for kids. And the kids know it. That's why you, as a 30-50 year old, look like a douche in those venues. Because those venues suck. You're better than that.

 

[Alvafe]

so BB lets just gather more info, how your friends are showing they interest? what they are looking? serious if they want a wife they will need to work more and will not find it on they first date, also how they dress? I had friend who was younger then me but looked like they was 10 years old, just the way they dressed, maybe if they can try to dress a little better they can not look like creep? pretty much like someone said before a guy is only creepy if he is not atractive, maybe is that what is lacking?

 

[Boilermaker]

So basically you’re stating the obvious. Give me a link to any credible poster here or manosphere writer who says that being old in an of itself is advantageous.



No. It flies in the face of your juvenile understanding of SMV theory. You did the same thing when you criticized the neg. You have little understanding of the things you speak. Allow me to educate you.

Manosphere Class 101.

http://therationalmale.com/2012/06/04/final-exam-navigating-the-smp/



Work on yourself and your value will rise. Women do not have this luxury. That is SMV theory. Only an idiot who can think in binary terms would interpret this to mean old = better.

Wow. First of all relax, you didn't even start this thread. As I always remind you, you are not even 25, and you are flaming threads you didn't even start in MM?... Don't do it, calm down.

Secondly, when you say " Give me a link to any credible poster here or manosphere writer who says that being old in an of itself is advantageous."

and then you give it yourself
"https://rationalmale.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/smv_curve1.jpg"

If I know how to read a plot or two, that shows clearly that getting old is an advantage almost in and of itself. There's lots of correlation for a man to get old and to succeed in life. I see no reason to nitpick this into sub-categories.

And thirdly, the "theory of SMV" isn't like the "theory of Matrices", or the theory of "electron transport" ... So I don't think there can be a "juvenile" understanding of it.

It's all partially opinion at the end of the day, so it's not like the OP is violating second law thermo here or anything.

Cheers,

 

[Stagger Lee]

As men age you can see that their SMV tends to level off during their 20′s with a gradual rise up to age 30. This represents men’s slow build SMV as they become more valuable by metrics of physical prowess, social gravity, status, maturity, affluence, influence, and hopefully dominance. It’s a slow process and unfortunately, of a man’s significant maturing to his SMV, most of it occurs while women are reaching their own SMV peak. At age 23, while a girl is enjoying her prime SMP value, a man is just beginning to make his own gradual ascent.

And unless you're saying the bolded part happens because the guy becomes to earn top percentage income or a high status postion, then this is crap. Men's sexual value or physical prowess, social gravity, status, influence etc doesn't just increase higher than their early 20's just because time goes by and he gets older.

Being older than mid 20's adds no status in the US. If anything the closer you get to 30 and beyond the more it lowers your sexual value. Men's SMV generally peaks by mid to late 20's and declines from that point.

Let's cut the crap. SMV here really means money or outstanding looks or both. Having either is just as rare, only that you have a little more control over earning money than looks. And I know a few older guys that are tall and not bad looking who make over $100k and it doesn't help them attract women much. It takes a lot of money and status to make up for not being a good looking 20 year old guy.

 

[backbreaker]

that's a good post zarky. but i will throw you a hypothetical curveball

what if i were single instead of married? where would i as a black male go to fit in to try to get women?

i mean, it's hard enough being black trying to talk to women outside your race in a club or abar, but it's doable. i did it for quite a while. but ****... yoga? what my black ass look like in a yoga class lol? i went there to pick up my wife once a while back and even then i got "WTF" looks let alone trying to actually pick up a chick there. golf? no. tennis? no. anything that i could do that is special interest.. is going to look like i am trying too hard to fit in.

i know what i would personally do and that's just go to my bread and butter, and that's horse racing. i fit in there and there are plenty of chicks in the horse racing scene. but just, in general what is a black guy who doesn't want to date overweight women or date referemed black christian chicks who have found god after years of whoring to do zarky !



PS- i just had a thought. wouldn't those things you posted be harder to do? the entire premise of the SMV is that he game gets easier for avg guys. so instead of going to bars and clubs and **** to get laid at 24 shouldn't it be that at 34 i should be at work and a cute hb7 is flirting with me without me doing anything or i see some chick at Starbucks and she keeps looking at me or the girl that works at the apartment i live in keeps trying to hook up with me? That's my definition of easier.

the things you posted just show that it's DOABLE but not easier.
e
when i lost weight and got really in shape hte game got way easier. girls were making it obvious that they were looking at me and wanted me to see them looking. i don't see that same correlation with guys who are just in their 30's or 40's.

 

[Boilermaker]

BB,
the coolest Salsa dancer I ever knew was a giant Black dude who was scoring chicks left and right; never seen him with the same girl for more than a month.

Just saying.

 

[evan12]

I turned 30 , and I think you need to change the way you were pickup women , and take in account the social part .
at 30 you should look more confidant and have some value , also your pickup field should not be random , try to register in University or club to not look like a creep who is hitting on girls in the street ,which can be perfectly acceptable if a 19 year old boy is doing that .
Another example i,t is normal to approach a girl and being shy until the age of 23 , after that you will look so creepy and unmanly.

every age has its acceptable ways in approaching women and the best bid for older men is to have a social circle , that this seriously.

but again if you want to end with a hot wife it is better to lock it while you are young , when you become 30 and want 20 hottie , every year it become like you are shooting a target in longer distance , you may hit it but still harder.

i am seeing that it's socially unaccecptable for a single .. 34 year old guy to go around trying to pick up women

that is correct , you cant at the age of 34 to stand in the mall door and ask every girl the routine "who lie more men or women "

the theory of 30 is better is only correct if you are good in shape and have some value and planning to be a serious dater with average women (or less )

 

[Mike32ct]

There are some nuggets of gold in this otherwise controversial thread.

Zarky - Great post. Since so many "young activities" can seem creepy/inappropriate for older guys, I'm glad to see a constructive list of some things a 30s/40s CAN do. I was thinking along these lines when I started dance classes a year ago.

Samspade - I fully agree about the Renaissance Man thing.

Other random thoughts:

Zunder: I think dating AND hookups are a challenge for many (not all) AVERAGE (or even slightly above average) 30s guys in the US. I think the Community, in general, focuses on the EXCEPTIONS, not the rules.

Others: Yes, no doubt an EXCEPTIONAL i.e. high value 30s guy will do well. BB is just talking about a typical guy. Not a loser. A guy with an ok job and a house, but not a 1%er. A guy who isn't an aggressive go-getter, but a decent, middle of the road sort of guy.

 

[yyc12]

BB,
the coolest Salsa dancer I ever knew was a giant Black dude who was scoring chicks left and right; never seen him with the same girl for more than a month.

Just saying.

Dude, I'm not that big, :crackup: .

 

[backbreaker]

my wife and i tried to do tango lessons earlier this year but it's not going to work because 1. she's taller than i am and 2. she has the coronation of 1 legged ostrich on acid. good lord babe i love you and all but damn you can't dance lol.


i want to get back to zarky's post because it was in fact golden. I have found that in my 8 and a half years of being clean of drugs, of the 100s of people i've tried to help being clean, out of all the **** i have done.. given people places to stay, helped find jobs, taken them to meetings, working the steps, all that.. without question the most effective thing that I do is simply, showing them how to fit in.

see if you haven't used drugs your entire life, you take **** for granted. like, ordering off a menu in a restaurant or buying clothes at real department stores and not goodwill (though i love me some goodwill), or being able to talk to someone about **** other than meth and how many times you've been to prison. i mean for me getting clean once i decided i had had enough, was relatively compared to others, pretty easy for me to do. not because i am better but because i was not raised around drugs. i was not raised in the drug game. i was raised in the regular ass dude game. i wanted to be a regular ass dude again and i knew how to be a regular dude that goes to the movies and buys popcorn and go to the sports bar and can order off a menu and **** like that.

i have found that most guys who stay clean past 3 or so months they realaspe simply because they don't fit in anywhere else. If you show them how to fit in the urge to go around old stooping grounds where they USED to fit in at greatly diminishes.


i say this because this really ties into what he is saying, and issue that frankely i can't speak at in depth on because i've been married since i was 28 so i've never HAD to go out and try to game women in my 30's or even upper 20's ive been in a LTR relationship since i was 25.

so if i were to get single tomorrow and i would go out my initial actions would be the **** i did when i was 24.. i never was a big club guy but i'd go out to bars and i'd do alot of cold approaches, and i'm good looking and in shape so it would work to a degree but i probably would not have the success i had 6 years ago.

so we really have 2 topics rolled into 1. the first being what stagger lee stated in that SMV is really your looks and how much you make. you can be over 30 and have those things no doubt but being 30 in itself does not give you those things.

the second being, well **** if we establish that, now what lol? how do you go out and get hb's like you did when you were 24 and they were all trying to get ****ed and have fun? now you have to weed through the women who demand commitment, the women who don't drink or go out, etc.

you have to learn how to re fit in so to speak. the **** i did at 24 is not going to work to the extent it worked back then. in my early 20's i used to go to clockers corner at santa anita and all the little track girls that worked there would be eyeing me and **** it was fish in a barrel. i dated 2, ****ed one, and married one lol. now at 30 while i'm not OLD, i'm not that good looking kid at the track either. i mean i don't look 30. but i don't look 20 either lol. i look like an adult now.



edit - i just had another thought. this very thought is probably what keeps men in marriages that they don't want to be in. The fear of going out and trying to start over

 

[yyc12]

i mean, it's hard enough being black trying to talk to women outside your race in a club or abar, but it's doable. i did it for quite a while. but ****... yoga? what my black ass look like in a yoga class lol? i went there to pick up my wife once a while back and even then i got "WTF" looks let alone trying to actually pick up a chick there. golf? no. tennis? no. anything that i could do that is special interest.. is going to look like i am trying too hard to fit in.

Haha, it's funny becaus I did all of those things and fit in just fine. If there was a horse racing scene in my city I wouldn't fit in there at all. Fitting in has nothing to do with race and everything to do with what your GENUINE interests are. I'll say this about yoga class: I don't know about other cities but in my city, at the many studios I've been to, the people don't really talk to each other and basically leave as quickly as possible after class so I'd find hooking up tough under those circumstances. It would be hard picking up here without looking like a creep.

I'm in my city's salsa scene and fit in just fine as the token black guy (other black dudes have come and gone over the yrs). I've hooked up with women from that scene as well. It's all about doing what really interested you. YOU did that and it worked with your horse racing so to answer you question, the regular black dude will just have to do the same thing.

But BB, weren't you the guy saying that race doesn't matter? LOL. You tore into those cats starting threads about how tough it is to get white girls saying they were low value now all of a sudden race matters? lol!

 

[yyc12]

my wife and i tried to do tango lessons earlier this year but it's not going to work because 1. she's taller than i am and 2. she has the coronation of 1 legged ostrich on acid. good lord babe i love you and all but damn you can't dance lol.

How tall are you?

 

[backbreaker]

But BB, weren't you the guy saying that race doesn't matter? LOL. You tore into those cats starting threads about how tough it is to get white girls saying they were low value now all of a sudden race matters? lol!

i never said race doesn't matter. i said that it's something you can't do anything about and if you want women outside your race you simply have to try harder.

i haven't dated a black girl since amber when i was 21-22 years old. so i can sit here and say yes i have had some success with women outside my race. but i'm also above avg looking and i'm in great shape. i'm not BLACK black per say i'm about ... will simths complexion. I'm not tall (5'8, wife is 5'11) nor do i have a big ****. i have a lot of features that work well for me and are what you would call "non black". I have small lips, i have small eyes and high cheekbones, and i don't have coarse thick hair like most black people, i look like i have an S curl all the time lol. i also dress like a pretty boy and I'm pretty well spoken in real life.

so when i am in shape and i decide to go out i catch eyes. how can i sit here and tell a dude that is like 5 shades darker than i am that race doesn't matter **** i really wouldn't know in that regard, i've never had the dark black skin trying to date a white girl problem.

but regardless, my entire point being that the only option if the guy who is 5 shades darker than i am wants to date a white woman, or wants to date outside his race, is roll up his sleeves and keep trying. that' s all you can do.

but i never said it doesn't matter.

like, amber, amber the black chick, is a dime. one of the prettiest black women i've ever seen, coke bottle body, pretty face, 5'7 or so and about 105-110 soak and wet. and when she first saw me she was instantly just like "okay .. humm".. a solid 8.5/9. my wife is very sexy and very pretty but part of what makes her hot is she's tall and she's got that British accent.. once you get past that she's very pretty but not exotic like amber is. she knows all this i'm not saying anything she hasn't said her self. my wife thinks she's a 9 lol i give her a solid 8. and i had to work my ass off to get her instested in me to take me seriously and i have more money than just about everyone on this forum and i'm above avg looking. now, i eventually got her where i got amber but i had to work, much harder.

 

[yyc12]

how can i sit here and tell a dude that is like 5 shades darker than i am that race doesn't matter **** i really wouldn't know in that regard, i've never had the dark black skin trying to date a white girl problem.

but regardless, my entire point being that the only option if the guy who is 5 shades darker than i am wants to date a white woman, or wants to date outside his race, is roll up his sleeves and keep trying. that' s all you can do.

Your description is pretty similar to mine so I wouldn't know about the 5 shades darker either, lol, but to date outside your race as a black requires you to be smart about it; you have to know where to find the ones open to it; its more than a numbers game.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear B Squared,
Thanks for letting me in on the Secret....Having been through all this and perhaps more valuably having a great relationship with two daughters in their mid twenties,I can see the point of your thread...Just love Sams contributions here,he is right on the Money....
So the posters are generally right,Men come into their own at about 35,then never look back....I can honestly say that for me things just get better and better,it is of course all relative....I think A Woman in her early fourties fit and been around the block is the epitomy of Female Splendour....As Benjamin Franklin observed,Women are like Peaches,they age from the outside,stay sweet in the middle LOL.....Being a good Dancer,I can actually pull quite young Women,I no longer bother,though looking at Sylvio Berlesconi playing with an 18 year old Montenegran Beauty I can see the benefits....No these days I prefer Women to be like my slippers,comfy and warm to slide into...
Back Breaker asks where he would be popular with Caucasion Women,why Australia!Here they fall over backward for Somalis and Nigerians,not far removed from the Stone Age,a sophisticated bloke like you could pick and chose....Pity about your Dancing but you had the right idea...Salsa is best for young blokes,then as you age the Argentine Tango....Very difficult for the Male,but the fishing is very good...Dancing is a wonderfully bonding activity for couples...Sure a good Fvuck is a great attraction,but a good Dance Partner though difficult to find,you will never leave....To have both attributes in one Woman,is Winter with Wine!