She LJBF me, I told her otherwise..

[Warrior74]

I'm kind of in this rut as well. I was about to ask about this until I read this thread.

The girl I really like just wont come around. And she has a boyfriend as well, so that's part of it I think.

But I work with her, and saw her Monday, and she asked about something and then goes... You seem mad at me. Then later she asked why I was being a jerk or apprehensive.

She goes...What's wrong? I said nothing, and she goes just tell me. Yes or No. I was like NO, NOTHING'S WRONG. Then she goes... I can tell when your lying, and walked off.

Today she said hi at work and I said hi, and went about my business. She said some dumb comment and then I fired back with a comment too, and then I hear....Someone switched a flip in your head or something, cause your being mean to me. Why are you being so rude? I asked how I was being rude, and then she goes... I thought we were friends and then walked away.

At that moment I wanted to say something about the "friend" deal, but instead I just stood there as she walked away.

My problem is that this girl thinks that if I dont talk to her and carry on a conversation with her, text her, compliment something about her, or do something nice or what not that i'm being an ass, or douchebag, or jerk.

I want to tell her... Why is it that I can not talk to 5 other people at work in a given night, and they dont call me names like you do? Why is it that you think that if I dont tell you to have a goodnight, that i'm an ass?

It's like if I dont cater to her, then i'm a jerk, and then she throws all of this at me like i'm the bad guy.

I dont owe her anything, I dont cater to her, and I dont have to say hi all the time and carry on a conversation with her.

I mean we'd text back a forth a handful of times in a day weeks ago, and I haven't said anything in almost a week, and now i'm rude. She didnt say that, but I know she is thinking that. Lat time I checked I didnt have to text her if I dont want too.

And I wasn't after this one to just fvck her. I wanted to have a relationship with her, and that didnt happen.

When she says the friends thing, it's not like we hang out, but I do see her at work, and yeah it sucks cause I really have feelings for this girl, but one thing I wont let her do, is try and make it seem like i'm the BAD GUY cause she isn't getting what she wants.

The trap guys fall into I think, is ok.... Let's be friends, even though they sure as hell dont want to be, but they do it thinking that if they are nice and show they can be friends, and be like they were when they liked her, that it will eventually work out. This is murder to one self, and i'm not one to do that to me, cause i've learned in the past what happens. YOU GET USED.

Anyway, i'm sure i'll either get a text from her one day, or hear from her at work that i'm rude to her, or mean to her.

And why? Cause she feels that if I dont jump when she says so, that I am rude. He hasn't complimented me in over a week, or texted me, or chatted it up with me. What an ass hole.

For some reason too, if I had a bad day or in a bad mood, she ALWAYS thinks it's about or because of her. My dog could have died, and I dont want to talk much in a day, but i'd hear... Why are you mad at me out of the blue.

So when ever I am not all cheery, according to her, I am mad at her.

My job is NOT to please her, and make her happy, and if she thinks that's the case, then she'll be my girlfriend. If not, too bad. I have other women to worry about.

I just hate when they turn it on you, and make you the bad guy for no damn reason.

Dood! She's just an attention hoor! **** what she wants. She calls you rude and jerk to break you down and make you her bytch! lol. She loves the emotions you stir up by ignoring her and her trying to put you back in your little friendzone box. Be the bad guy...what guy do girls like? The nice guy or the bad guy?

 

[Omen]

Dood! She's just an attention hoor! **** what she wants. She calls you rude and jerk to break you down and make you her bytch! lol. She loves the emotions you stir up by ignoring her and her trying to put you back in your little friendzone box. Be the bad guy...what guy do girls like? The nice guy or the bad guy?

And that's where she has it all wrong. I dont break down and I dont go... You know, i'm sorry, you're right, etc etc.

I think it's weird for her, cause most guys would do the AFC thing and come around, or after they had been broken down, but its not working.

I have done what Rollo said, and have done the ignoring thing and just walked away, but I was hoping he'd elaborate a little more on HOW to go about the walking away and what to do and not do.

She told me last night... I try to start a conversation with you, and you are being a jerk. Her conversation starter was.... There is a maxi pad on the floor and you should wipe your face with it. I then told her... How about I put you in the trash compactor. It wont hurt too much, and I wont have to listen to you anymore. She told me that was pretty harsh, and I was like well, you told me to wipe my face with a maxi pad, what did you expect.

It's like she can say what ever and its all good, but if I say something, i'm the *******.

My main thing i'll face with the ignoring deal, is that she'll ask WHY. Why dont you talk to me much anymore, or why this and why that. At that point i'll need a GOOD response. So far it hasn't happened, but it will get to that point the more I stay away and ignore her.

I've done my part I believe, but there will be more from her I am sure of. I just have to know what to do when that time comes.

She was a little down last night and I could tell she was upset, but that's the way it is. As I said...unless she is my gf, my goal is NOT to please her or make her happy, or any of that stuff.

I'll tell you that sometimes it gets hard to stick with what you are doing, and even though you really like someone, it makes MUCH MORE sense to WALK AWAY then to try and stay around and let her win.

And I am like WesCott. I'm not RUDE, and I dont call her names or yell at her, I just go about my own life and business. But if she isn't in the picture when I see her, or i'm not all chatty with her, I hear about it, and then she fires away with the name calling.

I sit there and think to myself... What ever, and just wait till she walks away. I dont say anything back when she calls me a jerk, *******, or any other name. I calmly do what I am doing, and eventually she gets sick of waiting for me to supposedly say something and she goes away.

And let me tell you why some girls say lets be friends. Do they TRULY have that interest? Maybe some, but what do you think their main thing is they want? I think they want to use you when they can.

What could be better then a female who KNOWS a guy really likes her, uses the LJBF bull crap, still gets what she wants, but doesn't have a relationship with him? I cant think of anything else.

She'll be all sorts of happy, and you'll be jumping when she says jump, and then you hope that if you keep being friends and keep trying the friend way, that she'll come around.

Ok you think.... I'll be friends, be really nice to her, call her on occasion, text her, tell her I like her hair, and MAYBE later she'll come around. NOT THE THING TO DO.

So I think when you take this away from them, it's the best thing. In my case, I think it is anyway. It's a trap too many fall into, and you'll never get out of it.

If she really likes you, or does have SOME feelings for you, she'll realize like Rollo said that YOU are the prize to be won, and it is HER fault if she cant see that. She'll realize that you have other options, and when she sees that, she'll wonder why the hell you aren't eating from her hand, cause that's what she thought you'd do.

Oh no... He liked me, and now he's moving on. I better decide what it is I really want. But that is a whole other topic

 

[Jeffst1980]

Assuming the girl doesn't really want to be friends and is just rejecting you, I think confronting a girl on an LJBF is foolish and a waste of time.
"No, I won't be your friend because in reality you don't even want my friendship, you're just rejecting me because you're not attracted to me."
That sounds a lot like telling girls, "You're just rejecting me because I'm ugly/short/fat/bald!"

Yes, it confounds their social programming, but not in a way that will attract them. The girl is trying to find a nice way to reject you without hurting your ego and you are subcommunicating that you see through it because it happens to you ALL THE TIME.

I'd prefer to give her a ****y grin and say, "Sure." Keep your dignity intact and just move on. If she calls asking why you aren't talking to her (and she won't, because she's not interested), say you've been busy and you promise you'll call her soon. Then....don't call her. This will give YOU the power (assuming she's interested---again, she's not). If you tell her you aren't talking to her because she won't sleep with you, you'll kill any attraction you've gained from disappearing (probably a negligible amount).

Confrontation is only a good thing when it comes to pushing the boundaries of respect. Imagine confronting a girl on LMR:
"Look, in reality you want to sleep with me, but you need me to take responsibility for it and make it look like you're not a slut to your friends, even though we only met 4 hours ago. So let's bone, and you can say 'it just happened,' ok?"

Or how about opening:

"Hey guys, I'm gonna engage you both in conversation, but in reality I'm only interested in the pretty one, so I'm just humoring you, fatty!"

That's obviously an extreme example, but it highlights why covert moves are better than direct confrontation.

 

[Maxtro]

Awesome post by Rollo Tomassi. Very good job at explaining the LJBF process.

Rollo I recommend that you repost that into the tips session as it is too good to be on page 5 of a thread that may be forgotten.

 

[dannyegg4575]

You've been the chick whose had the guy assert himself to you and you've played little games to try and get him back but he saw right through you didn't he?

It's almost like trying to fight with a bratty little sister who's not getting her ways. lol...

It doesn't matter if it's a guy or a girl, the point is that when one party goes LJBF, you walk. Put yourself in your own shoes. Have you ever fallen "out of love" with someone? do you let them down easy or do you outright be an ass and say, "I'm dumping you cause I found someone else?"

Well, the situation is exactly the same. Except us guys, we do it in a manner where we drop then pursue. The honorary thing to do. Where as women pursue, know it's safe, then drop.

So, put it in that context. If you are the one dropping, how does it look when you are needy and clingy? it's disgusting right? Well, visualize yourself as that person who got dropped. What would the reaction as a dumper want from you? Take it like a real person and give the dumper the room to go away. When the dumper realize, IF he/she realizes, that a mistake was made, then there is a chance to be back together. And all this is possible when you left in good terms and you do your own thing on your own time. Like Rollo mentioned.

You must also let her know that she has no control over your wellbeing just because she went away. She has to be stupid to think that. The role of a man is to provide and to love the woman... when she doesn't want it, why the hell would you want to still do it for her? see if some other bonehead can do the same things you did and gave her...

You shouldn't care if she thinks she is hot or not, she has no control over you because she knew that when she was with you, you knew how to treat a lady right. And she knew that you can get another one just as easy as you got her.

So, show her the door and be courteous of it.

 

[KontrollerX]

"I understand this much better now I think. So basically, you really do say ok when they ask to be friends, but three weeks later when they ask why you aren't fawning over them and hanging out with them anymore , you give the reply with something to the effect that you don't play "friends" with girls?"

No.

You never agree to the LJBF's question.

I was explaining to Iqqi that a man answers questions directly leaving as little room for re-interpretation for his intent as possible.

Anyway sometimes a girl directly asks you the LJBF question at the direct end of the relationship.

In this case you get to answer her immediately with "Thanks but I just don't keep female friends as for me women are for hooking up with, thats just how I live my life".

Alternatively to this you may be in a relationship with some chick and out of nowhere she says she's breaking up with you and leaves you without ever making the LJBF's offer.

She has made her choice so you see no reason at all to acknowledge her in public anymore.

And because of this lack of attention given to her she gets bothered by it and because she is as delusional and entitled as many modern women are she thinks she's entitled to your friendship despite breaking things off with you so then she will do the variant of LJBF's by asking you the question just in a very different way than by saying LJBF's ie "Why don't you talk to meeeeeeee anymoreeeeeeeeee?"

Then you give the answer...

"I don't keep female friends, women are for hooking up and thats it, thats how I've chosen to live my life".

And giving the answer correctly is all in your delivery which means give it in a smooth, cool, calm, confident self assured manner to do it right.

You can even use what you consider to be a better phrasing of words but get across this exact message with whatever words you use.

And remember there is no reason to be ashamed to let someone know how you choose to live your life.

And remember also that there are no shortage of vengeful women out there who will try to shame you and break you down for being so open and honest about it and not letting them dictate to you how you should run it.

Stand your ground though and continue to be your own man.

It is the process of trying to break you down after all that gets them so turned on for you anyway.

Edit: I second Maxtro. That post was so awesome it needs its own thread Rollo to do it proper justice.

 

[Al Moh.]

I haven't seen this thread so far so here is my oppinion:

First of, there is a difference what I would advice an AFC to do and what I think a DJ should do. You know, if you aren't an AFC you can't just do everything a DJ would do and be a DJ then. Sometimes there are stages you have to go through. LJBF is a good example:

Take the typical AFC who falls in love and thinks that through friendship, romance will eventually spring. I did make this mistake twice before I found this site so I can tell you what happens: You get more and more contact because the woman loves your attention and maybe humor in my case. You think you are advancing further but at some point you decide: Know it has to happen!

That is the sniper shot. But you miss, because the girl isn't interested in you. In fact, she'll most likely be confused because she thought you just wanted friednship (after all, this is what you went for on a full time basis).

Now she LJBF you because she loved tI haven't seen this thread so far so here is my opinion:

First of, there is a difference what I would advice an AFC to do and what I think a DJ should do. You know, if you aren't an AFC you can't just do everything a DJ would do and be a DJ then. Sometimes there are stages you have to go through. LJBF is a good example:

Take the typical AFC who falls in love and thinks that through friendship, romance will eventually spring. I did make this mistake twice before I found this site so I can tell you what happens: You get more and more contact because the woman loves your attention and maybe humour in my case. You think you are advancing further but at some point you decide: Know it has to happen!

That is the sniper shot. But you miss, because the girl isn't interested in you. In fact, she'll most likely be confused because she thought you just wanted friendship (after all, this is what you went for on a full time basis).

Now she LJBFed you because she loved this time. The right choice would to break down contact. Either tell her, you will not be friends with her, or agree but cut down contact anyways. I hear people arguing here, that you should be doing the first one or rather the second one because it will rather raise her interest level bla bla bla. But the point is that you have to get rid of any One-itis you have and then start to educate yourself, start spinning plates and so on. So what every AFC should do is next her, because sticking with her would be torture. Protect your heart! The only way is cutting contact. Then you can start becoming a...


...DJ!

So what would a DJ do? Here I have to strongly disagree with what a lot of you "master"-DJs said, especially KontrollerX.

First of all, the DJ is in a completely different situation. He DID NOT try to get into her pants using the friendship route. He asked her out right away. If he really is a DJ, he was spinning his plates anyways, so there will be no One-itis -> no need to protect his heart. So what ever he does, he could emotionally manage a friendship with a girl he went for romantically.

Now what should he do? Let's say he is on his third date, trying to escalate things further and suddenly the girl just LJBFs him!!! WTF???

There are four basic options as far as I've been following this thread.
a) I just don't have female friends, bye bye.
b) Yeah okay [but cuts contact after this].
c) Yeah okay [stays friends from now on]
d) Excuses himself from the situation.

Let's see. Now here is where I have to disagree with KontrollerX:

You say that you should next her and tell her that this is just like you live. Then you say that you should stand for your point of view. Certainly. But what if you don't have this point of view? I have a friend who is a natural and scores girls left and right. And if things don't turn out with a girl he just keeps her as a friends, expands his social circle through her and there'll be four new girls. Also, the girl that LJBFed him has to see how he gets lots of other girls. There were some that eventually fell for him later on when they saw what a catch he was.

But back to my point:

A DJ SHALL STAND FOR HIS CONVICTIONS!

So if it is your conviction to not have female friends, then next her. But don't tell the DJs that they have to do this because that's the only way to be a DJ. If a girl LBJFs me right now, so what? First of all, I DO NOT get angry. You just said that one should not show it. But on the other hand you are writing about how she thinks after this situation and so on in most of your posts. I got the impression that all you want to do is destroying here mood and self portray.

Well, I don't care about her opinion. I don't have to make her feel bad about herself to feel better. So be it. I can't see how not having a romantic interest in someone is a crime. No need to destroy her life because she told you.

So what would a DJ do? Here is the (my) answer (for I don't claim it to be universally right):

A DJ does what benefits himself and what is in line with his convictions.

So looking at the situation above, my first reaction would not to be affected by it. A DJ has enough girls after him so no need to make a big deal out of it and even care about what she is going to think of you, no matter how you react. So if I really just wanted sex, I am going to next her: Sorry, but friendship is something that really wouldn't work out between us.

If I think she is a fun person: Alright, I think this is a great idea. Stop dating her. Take any priorities of her (dateable girls come first, then female friends). So what, why shouldn't I stay friends with her if I like her character? She could invite me to some of her parties and I'll have fun there and meet new people.

And if I don't want to react: Well okay. Do what seems natural.

A DJ doesn't need a preset answer. He does what fits the situation.

I don't get how people can make a 5 page discussion out of this? We create our life, so do what you think is right. However, if you DO NOT know what is right (and that's the reason the question came up) you are still AFCish and I would recommend to next her to prevent yourself from emotional torture (because most likely you have one-itis).

And finally to the op:

Ask yourself what you want? Are you sorry you lost a friendship? Then you did the wrong thing. Do you feel relief of having said that and don't want to see her anymore? You did the right thing. Don't let people turn a LBJF situation into a "you always have to react that way" situation. It totally depends on what you want and what your convictions are.

That was it.

Al Moh. out (back to BC )

 

[The Bat]

As always, Rollo completely owned this thread.

I didn't realize the horse had been beaten to the death this badly. (94 posts without OP's response...so much for quality posts, folks)

 

[Smack]

So you don't think that a guy can get this same reaction if he remains friends... but really MOVES ON?

"handing her your balls" does not = accepting offer of friendship. DOES sound like FEAR and insecurity.

OH also by the way, most chicks who aren't interested in you... aren't going to CARE like you think they will if you decide not to be their friend. It really is not as serious as you hope it is. LMAO!

The real issue here are the AFC's of this thread who know they have no self control or self respect, and will doggedly lust after any woman they are near. And that is why they cannot concieve of "friendship" with a woman.

Her offer of friendship is false, though, she doesn't really want to be friends; only use you and tease you to feed her ego. We've already went over this. Learn.

 

[Reyaj]

Most guys get a LJBF rejection because of a process. These are the "friends first" mindset guys; the guys who put far too much emphasis on a solitary woman and wait her out until the perfect moment to attempt to escalate to intimacy, at which point her most comfortable rejection is to LJBF. This is made all the more easy for her because of the process the guy used to get to that point.

Most guys (not all) who get to the point of a LJBF rejection come to it because they fall in line with a Sniper mentality. They wait for their one target, constantly attempting to prove their merit in doing so - meaning they emphasize a comfort level and try to be friends before lovers. In essence they believe that desexualizing themselves will make them more attractive (by virtue of not being like "other guys") because they've bought into the idea that a woman must be comfortable with them first before they initiate intimacy. Once the AFC gets to a point where he's mustered enough courage to initiate, and he feels she 'should' be comfortable enough to appreciate him as BF material, the Sniper takes his shot.

The problem with this process is that it bypasses essential stages of attraction and the necessary discomfort and sexual tension necessary for intimacy and proceeds directly to a warm familiar, comfortable, rapport the exact opposite of arousal. If you think about this in terms of sex, this is the stage right after climax when she wants to cuddle, spoon and be wrapped up in her nice, secure oxytocin induced comfort. This the opposite of the testosterone fueled, sweaty, anxious and uncomfortable stage of arousal and intercourse before that release. So in terms of "friendship" and the Sniper mentality, you've skipped arousal and gone straight to comfort. You're perceived as a stuffed animal she can hug and then put back on the bed. Thus, when that previously platonic stuffed animal uncharacteristically gets a hard-on and says "I think we ought to be intimate" her reaction is to think that everything you've done for her up to that point has been a grand ruse. My God, all you wanted was sex this whole time?

Her most predictable response is then the LJBF rejection. The field has already been tilled by you, it's only one, very easy step for her to stay in that suspended comfort - "lets still be friends". And then the cycle repeats. The AFC believes the LJBF is a genuine offer (not a rejection) and then falls back into the Sniper mentality. He mustn't have been convincing enough to prove his worth to her and therefore returns to further proving himself as the perfect BF until he once again presses his intent of intimacy after another period. All this goes on apace until she becomes intimate with a BF and/or he acquires a new target after realizing his efforts with the LJBF girl aren't bearing fruit.

The problem with the "advice" IQQI offers here is that she would cast doubt on whether a LJBF rejection is in fact a rejection and not a genuine offer of friendship. To which I'll say that the only reason this is such a common issue among men & women for so long is because it's been repeated so regularly and the outcome so predictable as a rejection. A woman's behavior is always the only gauge of her intent, and thus when a rejection like LJBF has been so consistently met with the same outcome and behavior (as evidenced by thousands of identical stories on SS alone) it's only prudent for a Man to behave in kind.

A man's default response should always be to excuse him from the LJBF situation. The reason for this is because it serves his best interest whether she is testing him or is rejecting him. If he is confident enough in himself to walk away from the sexually tense environment, he proves himself as decisive enough to put himself above being 'played' like this. Ergo, he leaves her with the impression that he is the PRIZE, possibly has contacts with better prospective women and is confident enough to take away his attentions from her and thus passes her sh!t test while placing the responsibility of a re-connection on her (where it should be anyway). If she has in fact had a change of heart (her prerogative, remember?) and is using the LJBF as a means to reject him, he still benefits from all of the above and plants the 'seed of doubt' in her about her initial estimation of his acceptability for her intimacy. And even if she is truly not interested in the guy, he walks away on his feet and not his knees, by playing "friend" with her and wasting still more time that could be far better spent with more productive prospects.

It is really one of the few win-win situations for a guy to make a wholesale withdrawal of his attentions when he is confronted with an LJBF. Women know all too well how an LJBF places social pressure on a guy to accept what basically amounts to an ultimatum of negative social proof, and that's a hell of a sh!t test no matter what her real intent is. If the guy turns down her offer of friendship, he's the d!ickhed, not her. But the guy that can do what common sense and gut instinct points out to him will be the one to succeed, with her, other women and himself.

Human being's natural inclination is to avoid confrontation. When a man makes an approach to intimacy with a woman this becomes confrontational. If she is unsure of a man's sexual acceptability for her intimacy she must resort to psycho-social, learned behaviors to diffuse this confrontation. Preferably these techniques should be reinforced beforehand and proven to diffuse just such a confrontation, thus the LJBF response is acted out through generations of women across many different cultures - quite simply it works more often than not. You can also apply this to women who not-so-nonchalantly weave into their conversation that they have a boyfriend in an early effort to diffuse a potential suitor's interests. It's basically a proactive LJBF rejection.

It's the guy who is unwilling to accept these conventions that makes the most lasting impressions of confidence with women. It goes against what our common human heritage dictates for us - avoid conflict, don't make waves, be her friend, etc. By not accepting a LJBF you emphatically make known that you are good at confrontation, you have an understanding of her motives and you're confident enough in yourself to make it known. Not only does this impress her with potential for security provision it also implies future confidence. The problem for most guys is enacting this and making it a default behavior when our biology would have us move away from conflict rather than engage in an unacceptable social dynamic that is subtly damaging to his own interests.

I like your theories Rollo. I have a question though.. What is the best verbiage when you get the LJBF? For example what would you say and in what tone would you say it? I'm guessing you want to be calm cool and collected... right?

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

First off, I will add this to the Tips or Archive in a unique thread.

I have done what Rollo said, and have done the ignoring thing and just walked away, but I was hoping he'd elaborate a little more on HOW to go about the walking away and what to do and not do.

OMEN, my best advice for you is to cut this b!tch off. You need to be indifferent with her and right now all her crap is getting to you because you're allowing it to. Indifference is the key. If you agreed to "play friends" with her it's even worse now because she perceives you exactly as IQQI described - a sulky, spoiled kid who didn't get his way and is now pitching a fit. I'm not saying that's right, but when she's firing off insults inferring you're a pussie, it's time to eject wholesale. She's obviously figured out that you're trying to punish her because you did so overtly. All she's doing is pissing you off and all you want now is revenge. Revenge might feel good, but ultimately it's a waste of your most valuable resources - time and effort.

One of my best friends, Ray, had entertained a flirtatious "friendship" with a semi-attractive PR girl in our department for a while, unbeknownst to me. He knew what I'd said about LJBF rejections and "playing friends" with women, so he left me out of the loop on the whole affair. He had "dated" her on several occasions, took her out to a few concerts, but beyond the infrequent "kiss while drunk" she kept him at arms distance using the standard fillibuster techniques women classically use - "I'm not ready for a relationship", "I'm not looking for a BF", "We're good friends", etc. She did however keep him in her 'attention web' with little carrots of affection for him to pull her cart for about 3 or 4 months.

This all came to a head when one night she had to do some work with Aaron Lewis (yes, from Staind) while he was doing his solo acoustic act at the casino we worked for at the time. To make a long story short, the PR girl ended up buzzed on this night and ƒucked Aaron Lewis' manager in a classic situation of right-guy, right-environment, right-conditions. Her mistake was in confessing her actions to Ray who'd felt betrayed considering all the investment he'd put into doing what he thought was the right way to go about things. Here was one guy on one night who she ƒucked in a moment of chemical reaction desire because "he was hot, I was drunk and one thing led to another,.." versus his 3-4 month personal investment.

This of course was when he consulted me and informed me of everything leading up to it, only now he was at an impass. She appologized profusely to him and held out (once again) the olive branch of a LJBF rejection. He asked me what he should say, and it was at this point he took the initiative to tell her "no, we can't 'just be friends'." He did what I advised him to, called her bullsh!t for what it was and he walked away from a woman for the first time in his life. This is when all hell broke loose for her. She'd never been met with this response before and all the cards went straight into Ray's hands. She would consistently 'bump into him' at bars or events to "have another talk", she did a complete 180 in her attitude with him all in an effort to "be his friend." Of course she went through the predictable, "you're a Jerk!" phase, but this would swing back to her seeking absolution, but Ray stuck to his guns. It wasn't revenge motivated, it was simple indifference.

Now I'm exceptionally proud of Ray because, unlike most guys finding the true power of a takeaway, he stuck with it rather than being contented with her chasing him and then giving into the LJBF. He had actually learned a valuable tool that he still uses now - the power of the takeaway. In addition he also came to understand the principle of evaluating a woman, not by what she says, but by what she does - he learned the importance of reading behavior. He finally got it.

Of course after about 6 or 8 months she stopped pursuing him "to be friends" and he has talked to her in the interim years, but the frame of their discourse has changed. She has a respect for him that she never had when he was the pursuer and never would've had if he'd surrendered to another LJBF.

 

[Omen]

First off, I will add this to the Tips or Archive in a unique thread.



OMEN, my best advice for you is to cut this b!tch off. You need to be indifferent with her and right now all her crap is getting to you because you're allowing it to. Indifference is the key. If you agreed to "play friends" with her it's even worse now because she perceives you exactly as IQQI described - a sulky, spoiled kid who didn't get his way and is now pitching a fit. I'm not saying that's right, but when she's firing off insults inferring you're a pussie, it's time to eject wholesale. She's obviously figured out that you're trying to punish her because you did so overtly. All she's doing is pissing you off and all you want now is revenge. Revenge might feel good, but ultimately it's a waste of your most valuable resources - time and effort.
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Actually I have agreed to nothing at the moment. I wouldn't say her crap is getting to me, it's just stupid. I dont yell back at her when she says those things, and I think she is waiting for a reaction, or for me to go... Why am I am ass hole or jerk or douchebag? Or yell at her and say... What is your problem?

She hasn't called me a pussie, but she'll call me the above if I only say hi, and that is it in 6hrs. Or if I just dont happen to even say anything, i'll hear... Why are you so rude?

I mean I dont have to talk to everyone, and I work with 15 or 20 people at one time, and I dont chat with all of them, and I dont hear from other women... You're a jerk if I dont say anything to them.

It's not revenge I want, I just dont want to interact with her like I did before. I'm moving on, and I just dont want to waste anymore time and effort on her.

When I saw her Wed, she was standing with another girl, and they both said hi, and I acknowledged and said hi back. Then later that day she went off and started the name calling.

But like I said, I stood their calmly, kind of nodded my head, looked at her, and she walked away.

It was the same thing on Monday.

Anway, I just go about my business, and what ever she says she says, and I dont worry about it. It sounds like i'm pissed, but i'm just upset a little she has to act like this.

I said hi, and that doesn't seem to be enough. I guess some women are like that. She isn't getting her way and that's why she is mad too. She thought she had me all wrapped around her finger I guess, but she was mistaken. And now when she doesn't get the interaction, she gets moodier.

But i'm sticking to my guns, and that's that. And her actions prove its not worth my time to be friends anyway cause of the way she acts for no apparent reason.

She should eventually calm down I hope. lol

 

[Reyaj]

First off, I will add this to the Tips or Archive in a unique thread.



OMEN, my best advice for you is to cut this b!tch off. You need to be indifferent with her and right now all her crap is getting to you because you're allowing it to. Indifference is the key. If you agreed to "play friends" with her it's even worse now because she perceives you exactly as IQQI described - a sulky, spoiled kid who didn't get his way and is now pitching a fit. I'm not saying that's right, but when she's firing off insults inferring you're a pussie, it's time to eject wholesale. She's obviously figured out that you're trying to punish her because you did so overtly. All she's doing is pissing you off and all you want now is revenge. Revenge might feel good, but ultimately it's a waste of your most valuable resources - time and effort.

One of my best friends, Ray, had entertained a flirtatious "friendship" with a semi-attractive PR girl in our department for a while, unbeknownst to me. He knew what I'd said about LJBF rejections and "playing friends" with women, so he left me out of the loop on the whole affair. He had "dated" her on several occasions, took her out to a few concerts, but beyond the infrequent "kiss while drunk" she kept him at arms distance using the standard fillibuster techniques women classically use - "I'm not ready for a relationship", "I'm not looking for a BF", "We're good friends", etc. She did however keep him in her 'attention web' with little carrots of affection for him to pull her cart for about 3 or 4 months.

This all came to a head when one night she had to do some work with Aaron Lewis (yes, from Staind) while he was doing his solo acoustic act at the casino we worked for at the time. To make a long story short, the PR girl ended up buzzed on this night and ƒucked Aaron Lewis' manager in a classic situation of right-guy, right-environment, right-conditions. Her mistake was in confessing her actions to Ray who'd felt betrayed considering all the investment he'd put into doing what he thought was the right way to go about things. Here was one guy on one night who she ƒucked in a moment of chemical reaction desire because "he was hot, I was drunk and one thing led to another,.." versus his 3-4 month personal investment.

This of course was when he consulted me and informed me of everything leading up to it, only now he was at an impass. She appologized profusely to him and held out (once again) the olive branch of a LJBF rejection. He asked me what he should say, and it was at this point he took the initiative to tell her "no, we can't 'just be friends'." He did what I advised him to, called her bullsh!t for what it was and he walked away from a woman for the first time in his life. This is when all hell broke loose for her. She'd never been met with this response before and all the cards went straight into Ray's hands. She would consistently 'bump into him' at bars or events to "have another talk", she did a complete 180 in her attitude with him all in an effort to "be his friend." Of course she went through the predictable, "you're a Jerk!" phase, but this would swing back to her seeking absolution, but Ray stuck to his guns. It wasn't revenge motivated, it was simple indifference.

Now I'm exceptionally proud of Ray because, unlike most guys finding the true power of a takeaway, he stuck with it rather than being contented with her chasing him and then giving into the LJBF. He had actually learned a valuable tool that he still uses now - the power of the takeaway. In addition he also came to understand the principle of evaluating a woman, not by what she says, but by what she does - he learned the importance of reading behavior. He finally got it.

Of course after about 6 or 8 months she stopped pursuing him "to be friends" and he has talked to her in the interim years, but the frame of their discourse has changed. She has a respect for him that she never had when he was the pursuer and never would've had if he'd surrendered to another LJBF.

But he didn't get laid did he? I mean I follow the same mentality and DHV but it doesn't get you laid. I think its come down to this.... if you don't need her and she's not worth it.... play that card... but I know firsthand that if you want ***** you have to be patient and bend a little... and yes this includes some AFC ****...

 

[Maxtro]

After reading this thread, I've come to the conclusion that actually telling a girl that you don't want to be her friend is a bad move. The social backlash from that it leads to can be annoying and damaging to your reputation. That's what Omen is going through right now.

It basically makes the girl an enemy and nothing good can come of that. As somebody else said, I think the best course of action is to just tell her, "Sure thats a great idea." Of course you don't actually have to be her friend, she just thinks you settled for being her friend.

The trick to making that work is to be able to control your feelings and not fawn over her. If you can stay cool, there are several benefits that can come from having a female friend. The best one is the possibility of hooking up with her friends. If you can't keep your feelings in check then you really should break all contact.

In the end I think it's better to have a lot of females in your corner versus not having any female friends.

 

[Omen]

What I am going through is just an upset female I think.

In fact, i've never told this one... I dont want to be friends. I've never come across that yet.

I had realized a week ago she just wasn't going to budge at the moment. Could she? She may, cause she gives mixed signals all of the time. Regardless, what happened to me on Wed, was after she said... "You're being rude to me, I thought we were friends", she walked away.

She's never approached me in person and said anything of the friend deal. She did in a text over a month ago, but then she went the opposite, and then got real flirty, and more interested.

I think she's confused, and that is fine, but i'm not waiting around. I made my decision to move on. I gave it some time, and she cant seem to make up her mind, so I made up my mind. I'm not waiting anymore, and wasting anymore time and effort on her.

For me, I have stopped going after her, and she is realizing that. But she is turning it into the RUDE deal, and making it my fault.

Anyway, sooner or later, she'll say something, and I will have to respond. At the moment she hasn't actually said... Are we friends or what, or something similar and then waited for a response.

She just said the... I thought we were friends (hoping guilt trip) and walked away.

I know she is thinking... What happened to the other person that was after me and flirty with me, and blah blah.

What happened is, he was tired of waiting for you to make up your damn mind, so he moved on.

It's what i've done, and I dont think she likes the fact she isn't getting attention anymore from me like she was. It's not making her happy, but so what.

 

[Jeffst1980]

Rollo, in the case of your friend, I think it was the withdrawing of affections rather than the verbalizing of "no, we can't be friends" that made her respect him more (but still not lay him). However, in that situation, he had a right to call her out b/c she was clearly stringing him along and confessed her fling knowing full well that it would upset him. She did not treat him like a friend, and he had every right to let her know.

However, if the "LJBF" occurred in a different context, calling her out on it would be silly. If he had just met her and asked her on a date and she let him know she wasn't interested, she did everything right--why should she be "punished?" (which, incidentally, such confrontation and withdrawing of attention amounts to, whether or not WE choose to view it as such). Or, if they had been friends for a while and he never made his interest known, she again did nothing wrong.

I will say that in the case of a breakup, Rollo's post is worth following. I don't stay friends with ex's, I only treat them with civility. It's clearly not a real friendship in that situation, and it only sets you up for further complications down the road when either one of you gets involved with someone else.

Maxtro is correct about the social backlash--the LAST thing you want to look like is a bitter guy. The OP's girl (obv an attention wh0re) is pushing all of his buttons in search of reactions because he slipped up initially and pouted. Now she is judging his actions as (correctly) incongruent. Time to stop talking to her and never tell her why.

 

[DMSR76]

Great thread, guys.


Omen,

I really feel for you, man. Must be hell dealing with that type bullisht on a daily basis.

However, this is a prime example of why office relationships are a BIG no-no. A wise man once said, "Never isht where you eat."



Anyway, I would calmly tell her that I'm not indulging in office banter nowadays because I'm focusing on other avenues/priorites in my life.... It's nothing personal. The beauty of that statement is that it would be a TRUE one-- you're moving on. You wouldn't be compromising anything, and you'd be sufficiently direct and to the point. If the girl continues to whine and act an AW, it's her issue, not yours. You've said your peace.

 

[dannyegg4575]

"nah... see you around. **smile on face**"

walk away

 

[KontrollerX]

This is the mindset I'm seeing from the AFC's in this thread...

Pvssy at all costs.

Pvssy above self respect.

If you are fine with that, I'm fine with it too.

Just don't ever call yourself a DJ.

Like the guy who in a few posts earlier was telling me his friend is a natural at attracting women and how he accepts the LJBF insult and then hook's up with his ex's girl friends.

What DJ, what man of worth needs a woman's help in generating fresh options for himself?

The answer is no DJ.

AFC's will take table scraps, take what they can get, grovel and beg and put pvssy above all other concerns.

Many here still do not understand or care that a man doesn't beg, a man doesn't settle, and a man doesn't put a pvssy on a pedastal and do anything in the world to attain it.

You hear this sh!t constantly on the discussion forum...

"What does it matter as long as I/he/whoever gets laid? lol"

And the answer is its fine, make a fool of yourself, degrade yourself to get pvssy if you want but you'll never be a man or a DJ.

You'll always be an AFC, a boy and a beggar.

And beggers can't be choosers.

They take what they can get anyway they can get it.

My cousin is what I would call a natural as well, he is very good at getting new chicks all the time and many of them lust after him but you know what? He falls in oneitis with each and every single new girlfriend that he gets and cries about her and obsesses about the relationship nonstop. He may be a natural at getting with women but he is no DJ. A DJ doesn't fall into oneitis, a DJ loves himself enough and has his own life so as to not become completely obsessed with his love interest to the point of crying over every little thing like my cousin does.

So yeah a guy that is a natural at attracting women can still be very much an AFC, a guy can get laid all the time and still be an AFC, we had a new member come on the board not long ago who told us just this that his success at getting laid so often was because of his looks but he could never hold a relationship together because he was such a pathetic AFC at heart.

The guy in Al Moh's post is an AFC too and I mentioned him earlier in this post.

Victory Unlimited had a giant thread about fallen soldiers which was a thread about guys who just would never accept or realize their own worth as human beings so always pedastalized women and the pvssy and because of this would allow themselves to be destroyed over the attainment of it.

This is what a lot of you discussion forum guys are not getting.

Your life and personal integrity should be worth more than shaming yourself just to get into a woman's pants.

Being a DJ is about becoming such a man of worth that the pvssy chases you.

That you become the one who chooses who he gets with.

Not going through life and then taking the first girl who is responsive to your advances just because she's hot without even qualifying her first and filtering her out for red flags.

"LOLZ, KontrollerX I don't care to be a DJ I'm just getting laid lolzzzzzz"

Yeah, good for you. Thats the most important thing isn't it?

You'd be a good attraction for the circus considering all the hoops you jumped through and all the dedication you put into getting in your oneitis's pants finally. How long was it again before you finally got to nail her? Oh whats that 8 months and she was emotionally vulnerable at the time? Very nice. Very nice. You big pimp you.

Yep we've got guys like this all over the discussion forum and before one of these AFC winners makes a response post to this I'll save them the trouble.

Yes I know that that particular scenario I just posted may not apply to you, yours probably looks more like this...

The first girl you meet that shows any interest in you, you take, no qualifying, no filtering out for red flags, she's hot, she's got a pvssy, you want it and thats all that matters. Things go great for a while but eventually she disrespects you in some major way. Then you make a post here. "Guys what should I do, is this disrespect?" We answer. You don't listen. Girl cheats on you. Then you make the post "Fvck this site, it doesn't help anyone" then we reply "you are angry because you never listened to us, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out".

So yeah be the prize guys.

Stop pedastalizing pvssy, accepting any scraps that are thrown your way and putting yourself through a tremendous amount of effort just to attain it.

Work instead on making yourself awesome and it will come to you.

 

[DMSR76]

"nah... see you around. **smile on face**"

walk away

Excellent response. The aura you should project should say "My day will be great regardless of your proposal. We're not on the same wavelength. Hey, it happens."