Mixed Signals But Consistent Lays. High IL or Low IL?

[jamesfromhouston]

Spot on. Also I agree with the insecurities had her come running bit. I don’t know why OP cannot answer the question about his dating investment or lack thereof but I suppose at this point we can intimate an answer from him on this.

Sure, I can share it for the sake of this thread and future readers.

My dating investment with her:

1) I don't message her much because I am not on my phone much. But sometimes I will provide witty responses when she hits me up with casual messages.

2) I take her out to drinks, dinners, axe throwing, other fun activities and the movies since meeting her besides sex.

3) We hook up regularly in between our normal dates.

4) At this stage, I am not planning to LTR her because once again I don't really know her very well. LTR for is a serious step. At this stage of my life, I am just spinning plates.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

I'm curious about this. She clearly noticed your withdrawal and asked you a direct question.

Instead of being honest and forthright telling her you were bothered by the lack of consistency, you chose to play games and replied "no" and continued your withdrawal.

You didn't have to admit to being "mad" which is a bit extreme but why not tell her you were disappointed in how the interaction was playing out and rethinking things?

You know, have a genuine conversation? I mean the truth IS you were bothered and you did seem to really like her.

That's an interesting point.

Initially I was confused rather than mad, by the point of my withdrawal, I think I sort of just gave up. Just moved on to another plate and just other things.

I guess I could have declared that but saying "Hey, I've decided your mixed signals are off putting and I've given up on you." Sounds too extreme. I guess I believe in being a bit more tactful. If things were to go truly south and she never came back, I wouldn't have said a single thing. Just let it be.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

I don't mean to cause you grief, but I don't think that was the right play. Lot's of men here and men in general have cultivated this psuedo indifference/unreactive passivity mindset where they pretend they don't care even though they all do. If a women reverts to overt communication and asks you if you're upset, don't respond with the sort of covert/indirect feminine horseshvt communication that they typically do. It punishes them for being honest. If a women asks you if you're upset, and you are, tell her why. This would have been the perfect time to bring up her actions, rather than doing it reactively in the moment since it will be seen as weakness/neediness.

I'd be wary with her, just keep on eye on her behavior more.

I'm gonna say it again, but I think mind games are childish and disrespectful, and any manipulation from women (plate or not) is unacceptable in my book. High quality women won't play mind games because they know it may cause the man to walk away from her. That said, I am starting to increasingly suspect that most women nowadays don't even know how self-respecting men act, because they never encounter it. They may never encounter a man who tells them "no", or meet a man has boundaries, so their knee-jerk response is to call them "controlling" or "narcissistic", which means there may be an element of needing to train them to think properly.

Or, she wanted the power and didn't get it so now she's appeasing you again because her other options haven't crystalized yet. I'm not saying that IS what she's doing, but that's an alternative explaination. Don't overanalyze her or anything but just watch her behaviors and don't let her off the hook just yet or let your guard down. I think it's rare for a high quality women to go hot to cold then stay hot indefinitely...generally speaking, in healthy, stable relationships, there are few, if any, "hot" and cold" moments its all just "normal".

I get what you're saying but if a women likes a man she has to chase him at some point and the man has to allow her the opportunity to do so. I do agree that even some high quality women need to be chased, but it cannot be too one-sided or it ruins balance of power and she gains all the leverage.

You suggest that being indifferent and unreactive is feminine but wouldn't you agree getting upset or exuding a reaction to her aloofness is more feminine?

Wise words @FlexpertHamilton, I agree women nowadays are increasingly strange and I think it comes down to the culture of beta men who have pedestalized them and allowed them to get away with unacceptable behaviors.

On the note of this topic, are there any particular behaviors or behaviorial cues that I should be looking out for?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

"There's this broad I've been doing a couple of times every other week"

Are you channelling @GoodMan32?

On the note of this topic, are there any particular behaviors or behaviorial cues that I should be looking out for?

Entitlement.

 

[SW15]

The 2nd option is not as good looking as the 1st. Id' say the 2nd is about a solid 7 in my eyes.

That's a good option. I can see why a solid 7 would look less good compared to an elite 9-10.

The 1st is a hottie. I met the 1st at a sports bar. The night I met her she was being pulled by another guy but I ended up successfully pulling her away. Hypergamy was in action right before my eyes there and then. And a few times we've been out, I've seen guys attempting to make moves on her as well.

This is an interesting story.

First, I have had not good experiences in "sports bars". I have often considered televised sports to be a cocckblocker. I tend to avoid sports bars and alumni events centered around college football or college basketball.

How was she being pulled by another guy at the sports bar that first night?

I think many men will always try to make moves on her. She is in demand and she knows she is in demand.

What sort of expectations do you set at the commencement of something new? Do you verbalize or imply that you are a non-monogamous male running a rotation and you intend to stay that way?

about 2 years ago, I had another plate who was a solid 9. An influencer. We had a good thing going. Initially, she met up with me, we would always have great sex. We would hangout and have fun on dates. She would hit me up, drop regular bread crumbs but sometimes go cold. We had a good run. Had sex many times, then at one point, she politely dropped the "what are we" bomb, I politely told her friends. She still continued to see me for awhile, had sex a few more times before gradually fizzling out and then outright ignores and flakes on my attempts to ask her out. She is now married to a rich beta guy and they have a kid.

That's also a good story to share.

The way in which it all happened seems typical.

Why do you think she went hot and cold on you?

You seem to have a pattern of attractive women pulling hot and cold behavior on you.

Why didn't you give her girlfriend status when she did the "what are we" DTR conversation?

There were plenty of betas who would give her girlfriend status quickly. There are even alphas and sigmas who would be willing to give girlfriend status at a minimum to a 9 who is a social media influencer.

She did marry a rich beta but part of her is bored with a rich beta. Her SMV has dropped now with a kid (maybe she'll have a 2nd kid) so she's somewhat trapped in that. She likely isn't fulfilled with a rich beta and eventually she'll get bored. Straying and/or filing for divorce are realistic at some point in the future (probably multiple years away at this point). You won't be her affair partner though.

 

[Dr.Suave]

@SW15 you're almost clairvoyant!
But the reason why I say you're clairvoyant is because prior to this plate, about 2 years ago, I had another plate who was a solid 9. An influencer. We had a good thing going. But what you described happened. Initially, she met up with me, we would always have great sex. We would hangout and have fun on dates. She would hit me up, drop regular bread crumbs but sometimes go cold. We had a good run. Had sex many times, then at one point, she politely dropped the "what are we" bomb, I politely told her friends. She still continued to see me for awhile, had sex a few more times before gradually fizzling out and then outright ignores and flakes on my attempts to ask her out. She is now married to a rich beta guy and they have a kid.

Good for her, I guess. Good for you for having lots of sex with her in the meantime. I do feel a little bit bad for the poor sap that paid full price for used goods but that´s the world we live in.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

You suggest that being indifferent and unreactive is feminine but wouldn't you agree getting upset or exuding a reaction to her aloofness is more feminine?

Wise words @FlexpertHamilton, I agree women nowadays are increasingly strange and I think it comes down to the culture of beta men who have pedestalized them and allowed them to get away with unacceptable behaviors.

On the note of this topic, are there any particular behaviors or behaviorial cues that I should be looking out for?

Being *genuinely* indifferent/unreactive isn't feminine, but if a women literally asks you if you're upset, and are or had been, I'd say that's feminine to pretend you're not...they do that shvt all the time and it's insufferable. Guys might think they're hiding it when they do such things, but the mere fact she was asking you if you were upset means you weren't hiding it.

 

[BeExcellent]

Appreciate the additional info @jamesfromhouston.

Like @Sega Genesis I think that the aloof chick knew she was being gamey (otherwise she would not have asked if you were mad x 2), and your non detailed response of "No" did indeed trigger anxiety/insecurity so she came over, got freaky & tried to drug you back into submission via her body/sex.

Here is what you now know about aloof chick:
1. Insecure
2. Anxious
3. Thinks her box is made of solid gold
4. Trying to hook you through sex.

= A woman who while beautiful does not have much beyond looks to offer, knows it deep down, and is trying to lasso the best aggregate deal she can find in a guy. My guess is she sees relationships in a transactional way & she is weighing her options (including you), but she is insecure/anxious and probably some variety of jealous/crazy that would not weather well in a relationship. Beautiful + insecure = cuckoo. Not in a good or sustainable way.

Casual use only; have sex at your own risk of getting attached via her use of intermittent reinforcement. It works and you need to be mindful & tread carefully.

As far as the stage 5 clinger chick, yikes. I agree that woman is desperate and this indicates insecurity too, but in a different presentation. The clinger is prey that lies down (takes away the masculine need to pursue and win), and is like getting a participation trophy instead of a gold medal. You know she super likes you & you are like -Yawn-. Her strategy is different but your interest level, if we are being honest here is indifferent.

This is a gal you could end up in a placeholder relationship with, but you're selecting her mostly out of laziness and you'll seriously hurt her in the long run when you run into a woman you really are enthralled with. So keep it casual with the clinger to keep from hurting her & to keep from being smothered.

Neither of these plates is LTR material.

As far a a quality LTR worthy woman I agree with @FlexpertHamilton. Organically both people will invest, although in the early stages the man should do most of the initiating; with the woman responding positively.

When dating my husband I had other desirable men showing interest in me & requesting my time. Because of that abundance as well as my own long term mindset I had the luxury of taking some time to get to know my husband as a person & evaluating long term compatibility. My husband is a very handsome man, but what I love him for most is his endearing heart & his silly sense of humor, as well as his intelligence (I can't do dum b men) but his physical appearance & (Ahem) attributes certainly don't hurt. Over the first 2 months or so he pursued but while he initiated 100% of interactions at first (2-3 weeks), I would go to him, stay at his or call/text on occassion. I wanted him to know and feel consistent interest from me, but I was never running a full court press like clinger chick above.

I wanted to gauge HIS interest in me, and that isn't possible if I'm doing the male role of initiation.

Things move more toward equivalence over time but should never reach 50/50 and should never have the woman doing more than 50%.

Why? The man needs to continue in the masculine energy; the woman needs to remain in her feminine energy. Equality or greater effort on the woman's part is bad because it emasculates the man, it takes away his natural role. It can also lead to complacency, which is also bad.

LTRs are a delicate balance of sexual tension juxtaposed with intimacy & comfort. If the gender roles get out of balance it upsets this equation.

But neither of these plates is a solid LTR option for James IMHO.

 

[SW15]

I do feel a little bit bad for the poor sap that paid full price for used goods but that´s the world we live in.

Most men who marry end up paying full price for very used goods.

Plenty of men would marry an influencer who is physically attractive and not be too concerned about paying full price on it.

Good for you for having lots of sex with her in the meantime.

@jamesfromhouston did do well getting short term sex from a hot influencer.

The man needs to continue in the masculine energy; the woman needs to remain in her feminine energy. Equality or greater effort on the woman's part is bad because it emasculates the man, it takes away his natural role. It can also lead to complacency, which is also bad

I agree with this. There are a few people who go too far overemphasizing polarity though. I've seen examples of women being too submissive in the name of polarity.

Here is what you now know about aloof chick:
1. Insecure
2. Anxious
3. Thinks her box is made of solid gold
4. Trying to hook you through sex.

A woman who while beautiful does not have much beyond looks to offer, knows it deep down, and is trying to lasso the best aggregate deal she can find in a guy. My guess is she sees relationships in a transactional way & she is weighing her options (including you), but she is insecure/anxious and probably some variety of jealous/crazy that would not weather well in a relationship. Beautiful + insecure = cuckoo. Not in a good or sustainable way.

The aloof woman who is the subject of this post has done enough to disqualify herself as an LTR option.

I think her end game is exactly what you say it is. She sees relationships transactionally. She will be able to rope a beta with that mindset. She is looking for the best deal she can get. She does offer really good looks and that's something that a lot of men will find appealing.

As far as the stage 5 clinger chick, yikes. I agree that woman is desperate and this indicates insecurity too, but in a different presentation. The clinger is prey that lies down (takes away the masculine need to pursue and win), and is like getting a participation trophy instead of a gold medal. You know she super likes you & you are like -Yawn-. Her strategy is different but your interest level, if we are being honest here is indifferent.

This is a gal you could end up in a placeholder relationship with, but you're selecting her mostly out of laziness and you'll seriously hurt her in the long run when you run into a woman you really are enthralled with. So keep it casual with the clinger to keep from hurting her & to keep from being smothered.

There could be debate on whether she is high interest or an actual clinger. I find the 'clingy' reputation of women a bit overstated in the current era. Most women have enough abundance that they don't need to act clingy. Nevertheless, it can still happen.

@jamesfromhouston does say that she bombards him with text messages.

There is a reason why he might be feeling indifferent towards her. While she is a solid 7 in looks, @jamesfromhouston has dealt with even better looking women. A borderline cute/hot woman isn't as appealing compared to the elite level women in looks.

This needs a little bit more time.

Neither of these plates is LTR material.

Likely true, but I'd want some more detail on the 2nd, 'high IL' plate before saying she isn't. Also, I don't think @jamesfromhouston is prioritizing LTRs either.