Mixed Signals But Consistent Lays. High IL or Low IL?

[jamesfromhouston]

Spot on. Also I agree with the insecurities had her come running bit. I don’t know why OP cannot answer the question about his dating investment or lack thereof but I suppose at this point we can intimate an answer from him on this.

Sure, I can share it for the sake of this thread and future readers.

My dating investment with her:

1) I don't message her much because I am not on my phone much. But sometimes I will provide witty responses when she hits me up with casual messages.

2) I take her out to drinks, dinners, axe throwing, other fun activities and the movies since meeting her besides sex.

3) We hook up regularly in between our normal dates.

4) At this stage, I am not planning to LTR her because once again I don't really know her very well. LTR for is a serious step. At this stage of my life, I am just spinning plates.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

I'm curious about this. She clearly noticed your withdrawal and asked you a direct question.

Instead of being honest and forthright telling her you were bothered by the lack of consistency, you chose to play games and replied "no" and continued your withdrawal.

You didn't have to admit to being "mad" which is a bit extreme but why not tell her you were disappointed in how the interaction was playing out and rethinking things?

You know, have a genuine conversation? I mean the truth IS you were bothered and you did seem to really like her.

That's an interesting point.

Initially I was confused rather than mad, by the point of my withdrawal, I think I sort of just gave up. Just moved on to another plate and just other things.

I guess I could have declared that but saying "Hey, I've decided your mixed signals are off putting and I've given up on you." Sounds too extreme. I guess I believe in being a bit more tactful. If things were to go truly south and she never came back, I wouldn't have said a single thing. Just let it be.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

I don't mean to cause you grief, but I don't think that was the right play. Lot's of men here and men in general have cultivated this psuedo indifference/unreactive passivity mindset where they pretend they don't care even though they all do. If a women reverts to overt communication and asks you if you're upset, don't respond with the sort of covert/indirect feminine horseshvt communication that they typically do. It punishes them for being honest. If a women asks you if you're upset, and you are, tell her why. This would have been the perfect time to bring up her actions, rather than doing it reactively in the moment since it will be seen as weakness/neediness.

I'd be wary with her, just keep on eye on her behavior more.

I'm gonna say it again, but I think mind games are childish and disrespectful, and any manipulation from women (plate or not) is unacceptable in my book. High quality women won't play mind games because they know it may cause the man to walk away from her. That said, I am starting to increasingly suspect that most women nowadays don't even know how self-respecting men act, because they never encounter it. They may never encounter a man who tells them "no", or meet a man has boundaries, so their knee-jerk response is to call them "controlling" or "narcissistic", which means there may be an element of needing to train them to think properly.

Or, she wanted the power and didn't get it so now she's appeasing you again because her other options haven't crystalized yet. I'm not saying that IS what she's doing, but that's an alternative explaination. Don't overanalyze her or anything but just watch her behaviors and don't let her off the hook just yet or let your guard down. I think it's rare for a high quality women to go hot to cold then stay hot indefinitely...generally speaking, in healthy, stable relationships, there are few, if any, "hot" and cold" moments its all just "normal".

I get what you're saying but if a women likes a man she has to chase him at some point and the man has to allow her the opportunity to do so. I do agree that even some high quality women need to be chased, but it cannot be too one-sided or it ruins balance of power and she gains all the leverage.

You suggest that being indifferent and unreactive is feminine but wouldn't you agree getting upset or exuding a reaction to her aloofness is more feminine?

Wise words @FlexpertHamilton, I agree women nowadays are increasingly strange and I think it comes down to the culture of beta men who have pedestalized them and allowed them to get away with unacceptable behaviors.

On the note of this topic, are there any particular behaviors or behaviorial cues that I should be looking out for?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

"There's this broad I've been doing a couple of times every other week"

Are you channelling @GoodMan32?

On the note of this topic, are there any particular behaviors or behaviorial cues that I should be looking out for?

Entitlement.

 

[SW15]

The 2nd option is not as good looking as the 1st. Id' say the 2nd is about a solid 7 in my eyes.

That's a good option. I can see why a solid 7 would look less good compared to an elite 9-10.

The 1st is a hottie. I met the 1st at a sports bar. The night I met her she was being pulled by another guy but I ended up successfully pulling her away. Hypergamy was in action right before my eyes there and then. And a few times we've been out, I've seen guys attempting to make moves on her as well.

This is an interesting story.

First, I have had not good experiences in "sports bars". I have often considered televised sports to be a cocckblocker. I tend to avoid sports bars and alumni events centered around college football or college basketball.

How was she being pulled by another guy at the sports bar that first night?

I think many men will always try to make moves on her. She is in demand and she knows she is in demand.

What sort of expectations do you set at the commencement of something new? Do you verbalize or imply that you are a non-monogamous male running a rotation and you intend to stay that way?

about 2 years ago, I had another plate who was a solid 9. An influencer. We had a good thing going. Initially, she met up with me, we would always have great sex. We would hangout and have fun on dates. She would hit me up, drop regular bread crumbs but sometimes go cold. We had a good run. Had sex many times, then at one point, she politely dropped the "what are we" bomb, I politely told her friends. She still continued to see me for awhile, had sex a few more times before gradually fizzling out and then outright ignores and flakes on my attempts to ask her out. She is now married to a rich beta guy and they have a kid.

That's also a good story to share.

The way in which it all happened seems typical.

Why do you think she went hot and cold on you?

You seem to have a pattern of attractive women pulling hot and cold behavior on you.

Why didn't you give her girlfriend status when she did the "what are we" DTR conversation?

There were plenty of betas who would give her girlfriend status quickly. There are even alphas and sigmas who would be willing to give girlfriend status at a minimum to a 9 who is a social media influencer.

She did marry a rich beta but part of her is bored with a rich beta. Her SMV has dropped now with a kid (maybe she'll have a 2nd kid) so she's somewhat trapped in that. She likely isn't fulfilled with a rich beta and eventually she'll get bored. Straying and/or filing for divorce are realistic at some point in the future (probably multiple years away at this point). You won't be her affair partner though.

 

[Dr.Suave]

@SW15 you're almost clairvoyant!
But the reason why I say you're clairvoyant is because prior to this plate, about 2 years ago, I had another plate who was a solid 9. An influencer. We had a good thing going. But what you described happened. Initially, she met up with me, we would always have great sex. We would hangout and have fun on dates. She would hit me up, drop regular bread crumbs but sometimes go cold. We had a good run. Had sex many times, then at one point, she politely dropped the "what are we" bomb, I politely told her friends. She still continued to see me for awhile, had sex a few more times before gradually fizzling out and then outright ignores and flakes on my attempts to ask her out. She is now married to a rich beta guy and they have a kid.

Good for her, I guess. Good for you for having lots of sex with her in the meantime. I do feel a little bit bad for the poor sap that paid full price for used goods but that´s the world we live in.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

You suggest that being indifferent and unreactive is feminine but wouldn't you agree getting upset or exuding a reaction to her aloofness is more feminine?

Wise words @FlexpertHamilton, I agree women nowadays are increasingly strange and I think it comes down to the culture of beta men who have pedestalized them and allowed them to get away with unacceptable behaviors.

On the note of this topic, are there any particular behaviors or behaviorial cues that I should be looking out for?

Being *genuinely* indifferent/unreactive isn't feminine, but if a women literally asks you if you're upset, and are or had been, I'd say that's feminine to pretend you're not...they do that shvt all the time and it's insufferable. Guys might think they're hiding it when they do such things, but the mere fact she was asking you if you were upset means you weren't hiding it.

 

[BeExcellent]

Appreciate the additional info @jamesfromhouston.

Like @Sega Genesis I think that the aloof chick knew she was being gamey (otherwise she would not have asked if you were mad x 2), and your non detailed response of "No" did indeed trigger anxiety/insecurity so she came over, got freaky & tried to drug you back into submission via her body/sex.

Here is what you now know about aloof chick:
1. Insecure
2. Anxious
3. Thinks her box is made of solid gold
4. Trying to hook you through sex.

= A woman who while beautiful does not have much beyond looks to offer, knows it deep down, and is trying to lasso the best aggregate deal she can find in a guy. My guess is she sees relationships in a transactional way & she is weighing her options (including you), but she is insecure/anxious and probably some variety of jealous/crazy that would not weather well in a relationship. Beautiful + insecure = cuckoo. Not in a good or sustainable way.

Casual use only; have sex at your own risk of getting attached via her use of intermittent reinforcement. It works and you need to be mindful & tread carefully.

As far as the stage 5 clinger chick, yikes. I agree that woman is desperate and this indicates insecurity too, but in a different presentation. The clinger is prey that lies down (takes away the masculine need to pursue and win), and is like getting a participation trophy instead of a gold medal. You know she super likes you & you are like -Yawn-. Her strategy is different but your interest level, if we are being honest here is indifferent.

This is a gal you could end up in a placeholder relationship with, but you're selecting her mostly out of laziness and you'll seriously hurt her in the long run when you run into a woman you really are enthralled with. So keep it casual with the clinger to keep from hurting her & to keep from being smothered.

Neither of these plates is LTR material.

As far a a quality LTR worthy woman I agree with @FlexpertHamilton. Organically both people will invest, although in the early stages the man should do most of the initiating; with the woman responding positively.

When dating my husband I had other desirable men showing interest in me & requesting my time. Because of that abundance as well as my own long term mindset I had the luxury of taking some time to get to know my husband as a person & evaluating long term compatibility. My husband is a very handsome man, but what I love him for most is his endearing heart & his silly sense of humor, as well as his intelligence (I can't do dum b men) but his physical appearance & (Ahem) attributes certainly don't hurt. Over the first 2 months or so he pursued but while he initiated 100% of interactions at first (2-3 weeks), I would go to him, stay at his or call/text on occassion. I wanted him to know and feel consistent interest from me, but I was never running a full court press like clinger chick above.

I wanted to gauge HIS interest in me, and that isn't possible if I'm doing the male role of initiation.

Things move more toward equivalence over time but should never reach 50/50 and should never have the woman doing more than 50%.

Why? The man needs to continue in the masculine energy; the woman needs to remain in her feminine energy. Equality or greater effort on the woman's part is bad because it emasculates the man, it takes away his natural role. It can also lead to complacency, which is also bad.

LTRs are a delicate balance of sexual tension juxtaposed with intimacy & comfort. If the gender roles get out of balance it upsets this equation.

But neither of these plates is a solid LTR option for James IMHO.

 

[SW15]

I do feel a little bit bad for the poor sap that paid full price for used goods but that´s the world we live in.

Most men who marry end up paying full price for very used goods.

Plenty of men would marry an influencer who is physically attractive and not be too concerned about paying full price on it.

Good for you for having lots of sex with her in the meantime.

@jamesfromhouston did do well getting short term sex from a hot influencer.

The man needs to continue in the masculine energy; the woman needs to remain in her feminine energy. Equality or greater effort on the woman's part is bad because it emasculates the man, it takes away his natural role. It can also lead to complacency, which is also bad

I agree with this. There are a few people who go too far overemphasizing polarity though. I've seen examples of women being too submissive in the name of polarity.

Here is what you now know about aloof chick:
1. Insecure
2. Anxious
3. Thinks her box is made of solid gold
4. Trying to hook you through sex.

A woman who while beautiful does not have much beyond looks to offer, knows it deep down, and is trying to lasso the best aggregate deal she can find in a guy. My guess is she sees relationships in a transactional way & she is weighing her options (including you), but she is insecure/anxious and probably some variety of jealous/crazy that would not weather well in a relationship. Beautiful + insecure = cuckoo. Not in a good or sustainable way.

The aloof woman who is the subject of this post has done enough to disqualify herself as an LTR option.

I think her end game is exactly what you say it is. She sees relationships transactionally. She will be able to rope a beta with that mindset. She is looking for the best deal she can get. She does offer really good looks and that's something that a lot of men will find appealing.

As far as the stage 5 clinger chick, yikes. I agree that woman is desperate and this indicates insecurity too, but in a different presentation. The clinger is prey that lies down (takes away the masculine need to pursue and win), and is like getting a participation trophy instead of a gold medal. You know she super likes you & you are like -Yawn-. Her strategy is different but your interest level, if we are being honest here is indifferent.

This is a gal you could end up in a placeholder relationship with, but you're selecting her mostly out of laziness and you'll seriously hurt her in the long run when you run into a woman you really are enthralled with. So keep it casual with the clinger to keep from hurting her & to keep from being smothered.

There could be debate on whether she is high interest or an actual clinger. I find the 'clingy' reputation of women a bit overstated in the current era. Most women have enough abundance that they don't need to act clingy. Nevertheless, it can still happen.

@jamesfromhouston does say that she bombards him with text messages.

There is a reason why he might be feeling indifferent towards her. While she is a solid 7 in looks, @jamesfromhouston has dealt with even better looking women. A borderline cute/hot woman isn't as appealing compared to the elite level women in looks.

This needs a little bit more time.

Neither of these plates is LTR material.

Likely true, but I'd want some more detail on the 2nd, 'high IL' plate before saying she isn't. Also, I don't think @jamesfromhouston is prioritizing LTRs either.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

This is an interesting story.

First, I have had not good experiences in "sports bars". I have often considered televised sports to be a cocckblocker. I tend to avoid sports bars and alumni events centered around college football or college basketball.

How was she being pulled by another guy at the sports bar that first night?

I think many men will always try to make moves on her. She is in demand and she knows she is in demand.

What sort of expectations do you set at the commencement of something new? Do you verbalize or imply that you are a non-monogamous male running a rotation and you intend to stay that way?

She was out with her friends and there were a bunch of guys orbiting them. Their group was in close proximity to mine and I could overhear one guy in particular who was just trying to DHV his life to her. And he was buying and plying her with drinks. I could see she was amused but not attracted to that guy.

Yes she is quite attractive and gets the attention of men very easily. Who knows how many are currently orbiting and simping for her in her life, at this very moment.

I have always taken things casually without declaring intent up front. I don't verbalize anything. More of a go with the flow kind of person. But I am also quite open about my dating life and dating stories when meeting a new woman, so they insinuate very quickly that I am non-monogamous upfront and "spinning plates" (interesting how some on SS don't like this term nowadays). I give off a playboy vibe but I am fine with it because it isn't untrue if their definition of what constitutes a play boy is someone who does not date exclusively upfront and dates around.

My current dating philosophy is to enjoy myself, enjoy life, enjoy the process, get to know the person and not be in a rush to establish something monogamous or committed with anyone. The reason being as some on SS might recall (from my extensive NC & Breakup journey in the NC mega thread), I find it is very easy to get into a relationship with someone but very hard to get out of one (the breakup, baggage, pain, etc). And not all women are deserving of exclusive relationship, commitment and investment. This is the advice I would give my younger self.

So I don't delude women I meet up front or promise them monogamy or commitment, I just try to have fun with them.

Since joining SS, having dated extensively and spun plates, I realized that most women expect monogamy at some point. So naturally plates break over some duration of casual dating. This has been my experience.

Do I intend to stay this way? For now, yes. At least until I meet someone who truly gets my heart going but these people are far and few.

That's also a good story to share.

The way in which it all happened seems typical.

Why do you think she went hot and cold on you?

You seem to have a pattern of attractive women pulling hot and cold behavior on you.

Why didn't you give her girlfriend status when she did the "what are we" DTR conversation?

There were plenty of betas who would give her girlfriend status quickly. There are even alphas and sigmas who would be willing to give girlfriend status at a minimum to a 9 who is a social media influencer.

She did marry a rich beta but part of her is bored with a rich beta. Her SMV has dropped now with a kid (maybe she'll have a 2nd kid) so she's somewhat trapped in that. She likely isn't fulfilled with a rich beta and eventually she'll get bored. Straying and/or filing for divorce are realistic at some point in the future (probably multiple years away at this point). You won't be her affair partner though.

Thanks.

Yes this girl and I have been like planets in a way. She has orbited and bounced back and forth with me since I met her.

I think the hot and cold is easily explainable. I give off "fxkboi" vibes to her and actually to many of the women I meet.

Why?

Well my belief is, I always have a rotation. I am not needy or beta like most of the people they meet. We have sex over a duration of time but I never move things into exclusive LTR territory by default. And I've been told that I have a reputation as well among some social circles which I have also debated here on SS whether it is a good thing or not.

Like the above, from my perspective, I don't see a rush to LTR anyone I meet. I promise only a good time, good company and fun experience.

I didn't LTR her because although I enjoyed dating and ****ing her, I don't enjoy spending time with her without the frills. That's a bad sign. Imagine being stuck in a road trip with her.

I think after a long duration of me seeing, dating and ****ing this girl. She eventually got tired of it.

But you're right, it is very eye opening. Much on the manosphere is very true. As a man who only got RP awakened a few years ago, I've seen it in action.

For example, this influencer had gotten into another LTR before the marriage and even during then she would come out with me and often I dropped her back to her bf's place after our night out. I am sure her ex was totally unaware. Nothing happened but clearly she was keen to spend time with me and I guess debating whether to do more.

That's what I think about sometimes as well. It's crazy how there is a fairytale version of courtship with women. You wife them up. Put them up the pedestal. Walk them down the aisle. Give them everything. But that dream woman of yours has probably done a bunch of nasty things, unspeakable things that you would see in hardcore porn with alpha men who have not done half the stuff but just because the woman was simply attracted to them. The conditions that some of the women have set on BP men, did not exist for some others in their life. A double standard. It doesn't necessarily devalue women any less but it definitely destroys the idealistic conceptions of courtship that we men have.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

Good for her, I guess. Good for you for having lots of sex with her in the meantime. I do feel a little bit bad for the poor sap that paid full price for used goods but that´s the world we live in.

That's an interesting point about feeling bad for him. I mean I would not feel bad for him if he is happy. After all he got himself a trophy wife and they've even started a family. If he is happy about it, good for him. If she treats him sincerely and lovingly, that's the best.

On the other hand, sometimes I don't know how to feel, like I mentioned in the previous reply to @SW15, if the guy has this romanticized notion of how things unfolded. I.e. this girl is pure, saved herself for me and married me out of love rather than any other extenuating circumstances like perhaps she feels the pressure to settle down after being a carousel for too long. Then I would feel bad because it might not reflect reality. I also wonder, if a woman truly settles for a BP guy conditionally or circumstantially, how long would that kind of relationship last? What sort of conflicts would occur over time?

Who is to say whether it is ultimately a good thing or a bad thing though. It's just life I guess. The guy looks like a nice guy overall just overweight.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

A woman who while beautiful does not have much beyond looks to offer, knows it deep down, and is trying to lasso the best aggregate deal she can find in a guy. My guess is she sees relationships in a transactional way & she is weighing her options (including you), but she is insecure/anxious and probably some variety of jealous/crazy that would not weather well in a relationship. Beautiful + insecure = cuckoo. Not in a good or sustainable way.

Casual use only; have sex at your own risk of getting attached via her use of intermittent reinforcement. It works and you need to be mindful & tread carefully.

As far as the stage 5 clinger chick, yikes. I agree that woman is desperate and this indicates insecurity too, but in a different presentation. The clinger is prey that lies down (takes away the masculine need to pursue and win), and is like getting a participation trophy instead of a gold medal. You know she super likes you & you are like -Yawn-. Her strategy is different but your interest level, if we are being honest here is indifferent.

So keep it casual with the clinger to keep from hurting her & to keep from being smothered.

Neither of these plates is LTR material.

As far a a quality LTR worthy woman I agree with @FlexpertHamilton. Organically both people will invest, although in the early stages the man should do most of the initiating; with the woman responding positively.

When dating my husband I had other desirable men showing interest in me & requesting my time. Because of that abundance as well as my own long term mindset I had the luxury of taking some time to get to know my husband as a person & evaluating long term compatibility. My husband is a very handsome man, but what I love him for most is his endearing heart & his silly sense of humor, as well as his intelligence (I can't do dum b men) but his physical appearance & (Ahem) attributes certainly don't hurt. Over the first 2 months or so he pursued but while he initiated 100% of interactions at first (2-3 weeks), I would go to him, stay at his or call/text on occassion. I wanted him to know and feel consistent interest from me, but I was never running a full court press like clinger chick above.

I wanted to gauge HIS interest in me, and that isn't possible if I'm doing the male role of initiation.

Things move more toward equivalence over time but should never reach 50/50 and should never have the woman doing more than 50%.

Why? The man needs to continue in the masculine energy; the woman needs to remain in her feminine energy. Equality or greater effort on the woman's part is bad because it emasculates the man, it takes away his natural role. It can also lead to complacency, which is also bad.

LTRs are a delicate balance of sexual tension juxtaposed with intimacy & comfort. If the gender roles get out of balance it upsets this equation.

But neither of these plates is a solid LTR option for James IMHO.

@BeExcellent I've always appreciated your posts and contributions on SS. As a woman you offer incredible perspective.

Thanks for your advice.

Some follow ups for your female perspective:

1) How we one tell if a woman is approaching the relationship transactionally? And how can we tell if we are one of their options?

2) Not specifically on the clinger chick but overall what is the best way to put a girl down/end an interaction with a girl without hurting them? I've always found this very interesting. Women are really indirect in going about it, they start fading away, replying less, agreeing less, going out less with you. I've done the same but inevitably most of them get really butthurt about it. Yet I think being direct "hey I don't think I want to see you anymore" feels very harsh to them as well.

3) You mentioned your husband pursued and initiated 100% when you first met him. Was the abundance of attention from him a turn off? Or is it because you were already attracted to him therefore it was not. You mentioned you expected him to initiate, why is that? Is it because of the gender expectations you had? And if he did not initiate as he did in the beginning, would you have initiated instead or would you have wrote him off?

4) In your female opinion, what constitutes good LTR qualities?

 

[Learning Curve]

There's a plate of mine that has been giving a lot of mixed signals as of late.

We have hooked up several times. In person, she's all kino ( touching me, intimate, etc.), very receptive.

But after our hangouts, she does a 180, disappears and acts distant.

Often when I ask her out, she will even outright ignore me or give me the dreaded "I'll let you know" (sometimes replying me 24 hours later with a yes or no).

I've been trying to determine her IL. I've always believed a girl with high IL will not make things confusing for you.

But at the same time, we have consistently hooked up.

What are your thoughts?

How do you deal with a plate with mixed signals? (Or one that potentially is playing games.)

Adapt man.

There is nothing you can do.

This is the new reality of things unfortunately, the more abundance you have the more respect you will get from women and the less you will think and analyze things.

One text, that's it. No reply, then asta la vista.

No reason to follow up, message her ever again especially if you just hooked up a few times.

In my personal experience they always come around, once they hook up with a few more guys who are needy, insecure and can't control their emotions and become a doormat.

In this new era or modern world what ever you want to call it, it's a tough game. Women have become in their minds "selective" because of social media and the wiring that's happening.

 

[BeExcellent]

Well crap. I just made a whole reply to James & it vanished via system log off. Currently on vacation with the man so will try to respond in depth a bit later.

 

[SW15]

I don't delude women I meet up front or promise them monogamy or commitment, I just try to have fun with them.

Your Early Frame Announcement is that you seek shorter term sex and aren't seeking longer term monogamy.

The majority of women who seek longer term relationships and/or monogamy will often disappear quickly. They may disappear after a sexless first date or in 10-30 minutes of talking to you on an approach in real life. Once they sense the goals aren't the same, they are gone.

What happens is that you tend to attract women who aren't worthy of LTRs and many of them exhibit behaviors that are frustrating. Hot/cold and other inhumane treatment.

 

[Bokanovsky]

There's a plate of mine that has been giving a lot of mixed signals as of late.

We have hooked up several times. In person, she's all kino ( touching me, intimate, etc.), very receptive.

But after our hangouts, she does a 180, disappears and acts distant.

Often when I ask her out, she will even outright ignore me or give me the dreaded "I'll let you know" (sometimes replying me 24 hours later with a yes or no).

I've been trying to determine her IL. I've always believed a girl with high IL will not make things confusing for you.

But at the same time, we have consistently hooked up.

What are your thoughts?

How do you deal with a plate with mixed signals? (Or one that potentially is playing games.)

Low interest but she can't help being a slut.

 

[BeExcellent]

@BeExcellent I've always appreciated your posts and contributions on SS. As a woman you offer incredible perspective.

Thanks for your advice.

Some follow ups for your female perspective:

1) How we one tell if a woman is approaching the relationship transactionally? And how can we tell if we are one of their options?

2) Not specifically on the clinger chick but overall what is the best way to put a girl down/end an interaction with a girl without hurting them? I've always found this very interesting. Women are really indirect in going about it, they start fading away, replying less, agreeing less, going out less with you. I've done the same but inevitably most of them get really butthurt about it. Yet I think being direct "hey I don't think I want to see you anymore" feels very harsh to them as well.

3) You mentioned your husband pursued and initiated 100% when you first met him. Was the abundance of attention from him a turn off? Or is it because you were already attracted to him therefore it was not. You mentioned you expected him to initiate, why is that? Is it because of the gender expectations you had? And if he did not initiate as he did in the beginning, would you have initiated instead or would you have wrote him off?

4) In your female opinion, what constitutes good LTR qualities?

Let's start with number 4 and get that out of the way. Rather than type a whole dissertation I'm going to refer you to an old thread I started years ago called "How to Spot a Unicorn". Read the first few posts & you'll find my thoughts. Use the site's search function and type that in the thread title with me as the poster. It should pop right up.

I happen to agree strongly with @SW15 in what he said above, namely that you are screening out the LTR worthy girls right away & so by default selecting for the insecure/anxious/damaged/more crazy women.

The way @Glassguy navigates the player reputation is by saying a variation of "I'm not looking for anything serious right now, but I'm open to it if the right woman comes along....."

Perhaps he can offer his input to your thread. He leaves the door open so as not to immediately run off the good women.....

Ok. Let's address 1, 2 and 3 (I'm going to break it up so as not to lose everything again, lol....

 

[BeExcellent]

Next lets tackle 3.

I met my husband out on the town at a live music show. He was with his posse and I was also with my friends. After we got to chatting he asked for my social media info rather than my phone number (he was being suave in his mind). We left the venue with our respective friend groups....but I woke up the next morning to a message from him straight away asking me out for that day, within a few hours.

I thought he was attractive and had unique/cool style so I was curious about him. Translation: interested enough to give him part of my day to get to know him.

He came to a brunch place near me & looked amazing & he picked up the check. He was interesting to get to know. As we left he asked what I was up to that afternoon & did I feel like going out to wine country to hang out/spend more time together.

I said sure, and offered to take my car (a convertible). So we did that. He picked up the tab as we went here & there & we had a ball. We were too much wine in for the drive back to town so he got us a nice hotel for the night. We went back to town & work the next day. He'd call or text, I'd respond. He'd ask me to lunch or dinner near him & I'd meet him there. Other times he'd come pick me up from my place like a proper date.

He is a desirable guy, very handsome. I knew he liked me from the moment he sent the first message but I appreciated him asking me out straight away without a bunch of back and forth. I appreciated that he was bold and unapologetic about his interest. This gave me something concrete to respond to. So I remained receptive & agreeable as my curiosity grew into genuine interest. I knew too that he needed to feel consistency from me and I consciously rewarded his efforts to get together by getting together when I could (I travel for work so had to accomodate that).

Early dating especially is like dancing. One person must lead and one person must follow for the dance to be coordinated and harmonious. It is the male's role to lead the dance. If he didn't initiate he would have never heard from me. I would have assumed he wasn't interested and I'd have moved on without a second thought. I had too many other options. Seriously.

When both people have abundant options it means there has to be an effort to demonstrate interest from both people, otherwise it's too easy to blow off a game player/flakey person in favor of another option.

But the roles are comlimentary, not the same. Man lead; woman follow. Repeat again & again until a connection develops.

Because of my belief system I feel it is very important for the woman to be receptive but passive (not initiating contact or asking the man out). Why?

Because if the woman assumes the male/leadership role she can never observe whether the man would have reached out without her prompting. She can never see him make an effort/investment in her and therefore she robs herself of the comfort and security of knowing he sees her as worthy of his effort/investment. Read that again. This is what girls worth having will do, even in today's day & age.

And men should be doing the majority of the leading or the man will start to feel weird/smothered/emasculated soon enough. Not good.

I may be the old lady but not only has this philosophy served me well, it works for my 21 yo daughter-in-law (with my son 5+ years) and for my 20 yo oldest daughter (with her LTR 4 years).

 

[BeExcellent]

Number 2 is pretty straightforward. Be honest about where you're at. Don't be so lazy that you end up in a placeholder relationship because some woman has pushed her way into your life. Meanwhile you keep scanning for a better woman & looking to monkey branch.

Be non committal if that's where you are at and never allow yourself to be coerced or guilt tripped into a relationship you didn't chose. Cut her loose and do it bluntly. Be brutally honest & unapologetic about it.

By honest I mean tell her you are NOT sexually exclusive or that yup as a matter of fact you are banging other women. That way she has the necessary information to chose whether or not to keep interacting with you, and it's on her if she accepts that arrangement. Here's the interesting thing: If you have the balls to be that honest and you don't lie or decieve, you'll accomplish 2 things. A.) The woman will
see that she does not have a golden snatch and she will understand that to win your heart is going to require more than just sex, because for a player sex is easily obtainable; a commodity, but real connection is rare. B.) The transparency builds trust because you are being honest. You might get honesty from her too, which could make you uneasy.... but honesty is best.

Aloof chick thinks her p ussy is gold and that she's the only game in town. She's completely delusional. A girl like me, who may not be quite as gorgeous or quite as freaky but is a genuine fun sweet person to spend time with (and still is plenty attractive and sexy) will beat out girls like aloof chick all day. Why?

Looks and sex only get you so far. The hottest girl (if that's all she's got) will always lose out to the BEST girl. And desirable men get burned once or twice by hot/crazies & select for the best girl. This is why I had so much self confidence no matter how pretty the competition might be. I knew I was the total package, I knew that's what men really want & so I ddn't need to worry or be insecure or anxious. I KNEW the players would fall for me because they can't find connection with a total package girl very often. And girls like me know it too.

So if a girl isn't cutting the mustard? Cut her loose. Be an ass hole about it. Burn the bridge. Do not lead people on. It's mean. Rip off the band-aid quickly and decisively. Then block her on everything. That way she knows she has no chance and that's more kind in the long run.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

@BeExcellent thank you for taking the time in sharing. These are amazing!