Yes, good girls DO cheat

Giovanni Casanova

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Originally posted by Survivor
Gio, about your analogy. It doesn't really fit STR8UP's scenario.

How does the store owner know what questions to ask each candidate? Does the store owner have the time and money necessary to do thorough background checks?
In STR8UP's case, he KNOW FOR SURE that one candidate stole, and he has no information or evidence that suggests that the other one ever has.

It applies to STR8UP's scenario because this girl cheated on her boyfriend WITH HIM. It's a certain fact that this girl has cheated in the past. He knows, because he was a witness to it (and actually a party to the transgression). If he finds a girl who is single, and starts seeing her, and she says that she's never cheated in the past, the odds that she has cheated in the past are smaller than the girl he's with now. How? Even if you believe that 99% of all girls cheat (I don't, BTW), there is still a 1% chance that this girl has never cheated. On the other hand, with the girl he's with now, there is a 100% chance that she has cheated in the past. 100% chance is bigger than 99% chance.

And a girl who has cheated in the past IS more likely to cheat in the future, just as an employee who has stolen from an employer in the past is more likely to do so in the future. If you've got two guys, one of whom has stolen in the past and the other who, to the best of your knowledge, has never stolen, the one who HAS stolen in the past is more likely to steal from you, so you don't hire him. And the girl who has cheated in the past is more likely to cheat on you, so you don't go out with her.
 

Giovanni Casanova

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Originally posted by Survivor
I also have a big problem with your belief of once a cheater always a cheater. If thats true, then Allen might as well shut the site down cause according to that line of thinking, we will always be "AFCs".
I didn't say "once a cheater always a cheater." I just thought I'd point out the "odds" since we're all about probability here all of a sudden.

People can change if they really, really want to. But a whole lot of people stay the same. I'm pointing out sheer odds... not some kind of "cheater determinism".
 

STR8UP

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You keep saying my posts aren't worth responding to, but could it be that you have no good response?

I have nothing to hide from, the answer was so simple I didn't see a need to answer. Only a fool would hire the guy that stole the money, all else being equal. The thing is life isn't that simple. I recently hired a guy for a manager position who had a theft on his record when he was 19. I could have chosen to not hire him for this, but my best instincts told me that it was merely a moment of indiscretion on his part and he wouldn't be any more of a problem than anyone else.

Your entire argument is based upon using one indicator to disqualify a candidate for a long term relationship. Is a woman who you know has cheated more likely to cheat? It certainly takes her out of the running for angel of the year, but it doesn't necessarly mean she is at the far other end of the spectrum. That's a judgement call that needs to be made on an individual basis. It isn't something that you can automatically use to lump her into the category of being undateable unless you don't mind limiting yourself down to the very small percentage of the female population who you can never be sure of pinpointing anyways.

Since we have dragged business into this discussion I'll share with you a little nugget of wisdom that has taken me a long time to realize.

I finally reached the point where I understand that everything in business has to be analyzed from the perspective of what will make me the most money. I learned to not take things so personally, and to let things slide. If I noticed one of my managers giving a couple of unauthorized discounts to friends, my pride says, "FIRE HIS ASS! If he is willing to steal from you in this way, he's bound to steal more!" But the reality of the situation is that almost ANYONE YOU HIRE would steal from you if given the opportunity. All I can do is keep a close eye on it, and make changes if it gets out of hand. If I fired him for a minor theft I could very likely end up in a worse situation than I was before. You don't have a crystal ball to have the luxury of predicting the lesser of the two evils.

The point is that both my business partner and myself (and anyone else I know who has had the pleasure of ownong a business) through years of experience realized that most people will steal if given the opportunity, and it is impossible to discern one from the other. You just have to count on the fact and deal with it in a manner that is best for you. I see women in the same light. My experience has shown me that all of the hoping or action in the world isn't going to prevent cheating from happening, all I can do is look at the odds and make my choices accordingly.

After i cheated for my first time it opened the flood gates, cheating became less of a big deal and more of a common thing. you figure ****, ive alrdy cheated why not do it again?
A guys POV doesn't have any weight here. You aren't a woman, and as such are not restrained by the same social mores.

In simpler terms- Society doesn't give a rats ass if a guy cheats, but if a woman does so it comes with a terrible social stigma that continues to restrain her from further infidelity.

What is it with your ego? Do you really think that you are some wise sensei or something, the only older adult male role model that anyone on this board has?
Take it or leave it, I don't know you and could care less if you are too stubborn to listen.

Lesson Learned is to not be a sucka, yet at the same time be somewhat open-minded as to the content of one's character before entering into a serious relationship.
Good observation. Open minded is exactly what I am shooting for here. To dump all women into a "good" bin or a "bad" bin without accounting for other factors is likely to keep you alone for a long time, and when you do finally find one YOU THINK is the right one it is likely to leave you devastated when things goes wrong.
 

Giovanni Casanova

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Originally posted by STR8UP
It isn't something that you can automatically use to lump her into the category of being undateable unless you don't mind limiting yourself down to the very small percentage of the female population who you can never be sure of pinpointing anyways.
I think I get the problem. See, if I know that a girl has cheated in the past, I do put her in the category of being undateable (for me). Here I have been wondering for many pages why you wouldn't do the same, but it is now clear to me. Your choices are more limited for some reason. Maybe it's where you pick up these winners of women. Out of curiosity, where are you finding these fine specimens? Bars? Clubs?

I've had three LTRs, and have dated many different women, some semi-exclusively. ONE time, I decided to date a girl who cheated on her boyfriend with me at the very beginning of our relationship. Her and her boyfriend later broke up and we were together. That was the only time I ended up with a known cheater, and I regret every minute of it. On the other hand, the other girls I have dated or had relationships with have been single. They had not cheated in the past to my knowledge, but I don't claim to be all-seeing. But we should definitely recognize the difference between KNOWING FOR SURE that a girl has cheated in the past and having no evidence whatsoever to suggest that a girl has cheated in the past. The only time I have ever been cheated on (to my knowledge) was with a girl I knew had cheated in the past.

Since then, I learned from my mistake, and have urged my friends and acquaintances from going after girls who they know have cheated in the past, and especially from going after girls with boyfriends and trying to get them to cheat on their boyfriends. Every time one of these friends has disregarded my advice regarding this topic, they've come to eventually regret it. Now, I realize that since you're 8 or 9 years older than me you are immune from ever screwing things up, which is lucky for you because otherwise I'd say you're heading for a serious f*cking-over.
 

STR8UP

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Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova
Maybe it's where you pick up these winners of women. Out of curiosity, where are you finding these fine specimens? Bars? Clubs?
Ahhh, you're one of those guys who thinks he has a better shot at finding a quality woman at church.....

Yes, the girl I am seeing right now I met at a club. I can't think of too many girls who don't like to go dancing from time to time. I don't hold that against them. To you it's just another red flag that she might be trouble? Funny.

ONE time, I decided to date a girl who cheated on her boyfriend with me at the very beginning of our relationship.
You got played by ONE ho and now you think all girls who have cheated at some point in their lives are the same way. This explains alot.
 
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STR8 UP IS DEAD ON!

GIO, PLEASE GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS.. HOW OLD ARE YOU 22?

I THOUGHT THE EXACT same thing you did 5 or 7 years ago...I dated 1 girl for 6 years, 1 Christian girl for 6 months...

both dumped me for loser guys, and they ****ed these guys behind me back, the second they dump you- (and they will)....

they have MANY MORE OPTIONS AND ***** POWER, and a line of guys waiting for you to **** up....

do not be so damn niave! I USED TO BE... your feelings for your girl are clogging your logical thought patterns... they do every guy!

STR8 UP is 100% right!

By the way, I am very smart, talented, funny, interesting, and good looking. I treated my ex's with respect and always thought I was doing the right things...I had great sex with these 2 women and I gave them their space, etc... did everything " right".... or so I thought...

I have nothing against women or having a serious relationship, youngun', but why you think there is a 55% DIVORCE RATE AND THE WOMAN dumps they guy 99% of the time!?

you cannot TRUST A WOMAN FULLY!!!
 

Giovanni Casanova

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Originally posted by STR8UP
Ahhh, you're one of those guys who thinks he has a better shot at finding a quality woman at church.....

Yes, the girl I am seeing right now I met at a club. I can't think of too many girls who don't like to go dancing from time to time. I don't hold that against them. To you it's just another red flag that she might be trouble? Funny.

No, it's not a red flag per se, but where you pick a girl up definitely is a factor in what kind of girl you pick up. But it explains a lot to me why you seem to think that all women are cheating wh*res when the girls you're picking up are from the meat market. On that same vein, I wouldn't pick up a girl from church, either, even if I went to church or even if I was religious in the slightest, which I'm not.

There are plenty of other places to meet women who are of a slightly higher caliber than you'll find in a bar; for example: colleges/college classes, volunteer organizations, political/special interest groups, libraries, pickup sports leagues (ie, local softball, volleyball, etc. teams). The list goes on, and you're more likely to find a higher quality girl than you are at a bar. I'm not saying that's what you should do, I'm saying that it explains a lot when you say "pretty much every woman in the world is a cheating ho, whether you want to believe it or not" that you're finding all of these fine examples of the female species in dark and smokey bars.

You got played by ONE ho and now you think all girls who have cheated at some point in their lives are the same way. This explains alot.
That's not what I said, and here you're putting words into my mouth. I said that the only time I've ever been cheated on to my knowledge was when I did exactly what you're doing now. I've known several people who also did what you're doing now and wish that they hadn't. However, it's only YOUR experience that everyone should pay attention to, because ONLY YOU experience things that other guys should avoid.
 

Giovanni Casanova

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Re: STR8 UP IS DEAD ON!

Originally posted by diditall4thenookie
GIO, PLEASE GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS.. HOW OLD ARE YOU 22?


JUST ME, er, I mean, diditall4... whatever. You're an idiot. I remember when you first came to this board, and I remember what I told you then. If you honestly think that my behavior in a relationship bears any resemblance to your behavior in relationships, you need to take a little more time and re-think.

I have nothing against women or having a serious relationship, youngun', but why you think there is a 55% DIVORCE RATE AND THE WOMAN dumps they guy 99% of the time!?

you cannot TRUST A WOMAN FULLY!!!
Did you know that 104 percent of all statistics are pulled directly out of your ass, including "the woman dumps the guy 99% of the time" that you just cited? I can tell that you pulled it out of your ass, because it's full of sh*t.

Additionally, anyone who looks at this site as an accurate portrayal of male/female interaction is going to be suffering from a major lapse in reality. A lot of guys are here because they had a major problem with women. That could mean that they have gotten brutally rejected, had their heart seemingly torn out by women, or even been cheated on in a way that would be fit for a Jerry Springer episode. Most of the guys here aren't here because, damn it, they just can't stop dumping girls, or because they're just constantly cheating on women. Most of the guys are here because they keep getting dumped, or they've been cheated on or whatever. Now, the problem is that some guys look around, and say, "Wow, out of all these guys here, probably 85% or more have been cheated on! That means that most guys get cheated on and that most women are evil sl*ts!" No, it doesn't.

Here's another way to look at it: Most of the people on this site are in their 20s or 30s. There have been polls asking how many people you've had sex with, or how many people here are virgins, etc. The consensus of these polls seems to be that around one out of every three guys on this site are virgins. Even correcting for the kids on this board, would you say that a third of all 20-39 year old guys are virgins? Of course not, and that's the thing. We're not dealing with reality or the population as a whole, we're dealing with extreme cases who have been f*cked over real nice. And the danger there lies in the attitude that then comes from this site that seems to indicate that women are an enemy to be feared and somehow dominated and subdued.

Bottom line: feel free to get tips, advice, ideas, etc. from this site, but certainly don't treat this site as representative of the population (male or female) as a whole.
 

sAxyguy83

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First: dititall4thenookie, if you're going to flame like a brain-dead troll, at least have the balls to do it under your real screen name. If that is your real screen name on these forums, you're off to a great start ;)

Playing devil's advocate against my normal views, I'd like to point out to G.C. that one or more of his previous gf's that he doesn't know if they cheated on him and/or previous guys could quite well have cheated on him and all her other bf's, and just been much better at hiding it.

Also, I agree w/ STR8UP that every woman needs to be evaluated on an individual basis, but at the same time I agree w/ G.C. that previous history of unfaithfulness is a point against a girl. I think we can all agree here that neither girls nor guys can be lumped into distinct categories like "good", "bad", etc.. I find it odd, however, that STR8UP, who always talks about not trusting women, is now urging ppl to give them the benefit of the doubt... Sounds like somebody's getting close:eek: . . . Just follow your own advice, man - keep an open mind, but be careful she doesn't burn you.

Just b/c we haven't heard of a woman cheating b4 doesn't mean she'll never cheat, and by the same token just b/c we know a girl has cheated b4 doesn't mean she'll do it again. However, past behavior is one of the best tools for predicting future behavior.
 

Giovanni Casanova

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Originally posted by sAxyguy83
Playing devil's advocate against my normal views, I'd like to point out to G.C. that one or more of his previous gf's that he doesn't know if they cheated on him and/or previous guys could quite well have cheated on him and all her other bf's, and just been much better at hiding it.
Which is exactly why I went to such painstaking lengths to say "that I know of". Of course there are no guarantees, and there is a small chance that she is a really good con-artist and I'm just oblivious to it (and so are all my friends and others who know her). However, I really have no reason to believe that she's been unfaithful to me or anyone else, whereas if you're the one she cheats with YOU KNOW that she has cheated... you were there!
 

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LOL look who is talking about blinders..

Yes i repeat STR8UP...You are full of crap.....and yes you are full of crap ...if you want to talk about blinders take yours off because the last time i read this post you are dating a"very fine specimen of young decent woman." (sarcatisc).Man let me just say it one more time ..you are full of crap...You are so blinded or should i said fustrated or ready to give up on finding a good woman that you make excuses for making cheating sluts actually a "good girl".

Man a woman who cheats on another man, i dont care who she is , she has no integrity as a person. My list is pretty strict,..i agree, and yes i know i may face dissapointment , but i am not with a cheating slut as a GF. We are all out there for the risk to face dissapointments but man the only way i am going to face it is if the girl is such a good actress that she passes through my list with flying colors...Maybe you didnt read the part where it says that do to 99 percent of woman being sluts, i dont live my life with the idea i might get marry one day.

But going back to your topic, you forget to realize morals. A woman after she turns 17 ...her mind is pretty much unchangable when dealing with what she finds wrong, right, a disrespect, or a just a simple fvked up such as forgetting to do the dishes or cheating.. LOL let me ask you one question .Why do good girl cheat....HAHAHA .. you have answered this...didnt you....women or man are measured by their integrity.If you are unhappy with the person to the point of cheating if you have integrity ,honor , and respect then you brake up. Your girl cheated on pass bf for lack of integrity...and maybe she is not cheating on you know, but what is your plan ...keep her happy all the time and be an AFC, or be a DJ get her piss one day and see her run out to fvck another dude.
Man a descent woman realizes that her respect comes before anything including the relationship, i met very few like that and they are not from the US , nor from this generation. Keep that girl , and maybe you think you are MR hotshot or the guy with the sweetest ****, but trust me you are as good as all her exes.

Casanovas problem is a different and i agree that he has very little knowledge of his woman, as he has only been with her for a year...i just hope she was as good of a con -artist as it will take to opass my list..

Tiburon
 
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quote by gio

"First of all, I don't need that "explained" to me. I've been cheated on in the past. I've also had experience with girls who have been "good" enough to break off a relationship before they begin the next one. "

this is so hilarious! How do YOU KNOW THIS? She was ****ing that guy 4 weeks before she dumped your ass.. Hurts your ego, but it is reality.
 

Giovanni Casanova

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Re: LOL look who is talking about blinders..

Originally posted by tiburon
Casanovas problem is a different and i agree that he has very little knowledge of his woman
Tiburon, STFU about things you know nothing about.
 
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quote "And as to the girls replacing u before your gone thing i'll MORE THAN VOUCHE for that. My gf and i dated for almost 2 years and like 2 weeks ago broke up, turns out shes already dating another guy.. when the relationship goes stale if theres another option there more then willing to take the risk."

See above, Mr. "my girl would never cheat on me, I am 23 and know it all".
:rolleyes:
 

Giovanni Casanova

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Originally posted by diditall4thenookie
quote by gio

"First of all, I don't need that "explained" to me. I've been cheated on in the past. I've also had experience with girls who have been "good" enough to break off a relationship before they begin the next one. "

this is so hilarious! How do YOU KNOW THIS? She was ****ing that guy 4 weeks before she dumped your ass.. Hurts your ego, but it is reality.
Two pieces of advice for you, JUST ME.

The first piece of advice is to read the message I just posted for tiburon and apply it doubly to yourself.

The second piece of advice is this. I know that you registered this username seven months ago but have only posted twice, within the last half hour, to go after things that I have said. Based on your writing style, your punctuation, and your unusual desire to emphasize every other word, I believe that you are the poster who is also known as JUST ME. If I'm correct, I'd recommend you stop hiding behind a second username on an already anonymous internet message board because it makes you look like a pathetic little b*tch. Either post as who you really are or stop posting.
 

tiburon

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Gio GIO GIO...

MAn relax ok ..its a free country and i havent direspected you but if you want to go that way ill be more than Happy to telll you a couple of things you will find really really nice to read..DONT YOU MESS WITH THE CUBAN ..and if you want to ...be a man atleast tell me to shut the FVCK UP in my face...

No wlisten to me , it aint my fault you are getting fustrated and you are going to pick on me, and i dont know jack about your woman and the a the fact is you know just a liitle bit more than i do.

I Cant believe you just disrespected me , because even tought i found you crazy for what your doing I tought you were more of a MAN. Nevertheless here it goes son:

What the heck do you know about your woman...?

LOL do you know if her ex fvcked her in the a$$?
In the year you were with her do you actually think you get to know a person?
Man, humans are complicated and you will never get to completely know another individual , but in one year.....you probably only know how charming she could be..you guys are probably so inlove you havent seen each of you for who you really are...
Nevertheless like you love to say..if thats what makes you sleep happy at night...

Dude i appeciate it if the next time you wrote directing comments towards me you kept your stupid mouth clean..or better yet dont ever respond to me if you cant be a MAn!!

TIBURON CUBANO

p.s who do you think you are..?
 
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no...

ummmm... no, sorry, son... I think you are incorrect.

Like STR8UP said, when you get your niave ass dumped a couple times, you'll be emailing him for advice on women, Mr. Holier than thou poster.

Stick to the topic, not flame wars, junior.:rolleyes:
 

sAxyguy83

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Look who's talking...

STR8UP, tiburon, G.C., I think you all need to step back, take a deep breath, and CHILL OUT. A short temper is a sure sign of insecurity, and the instant you raise your voice, you've lost the argument. Post with a clear mind while you're calm, and if you still want to flame you can come up with some really f**king vicious shyt.

To me, it seems like both STR8UP and G.C. are trying to maintain confidence in their current relationship. I have no problem with this (in fact it's a good idea), but you guys might be happier if you did so in a way other than arguing with each other, b/c right now all this argument is accomplishing is getting a bunch of ppl mad and giving them doubts about their relationships.

You may now proceed to begin flaming me... ;)
 

AmgineEX

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i just hope she was as good of a con -artist as it will take to opass my list..
Um, tiburon, why are you talking sh!t about someone you dont know? What do you mean conartist? I'm sure he knows more about his FIANCEE than you do.

I'm young, i'll admit it, but I must say I agree with Gio on this one 100% and i think he nailed it. Most people (including me) is on this site b/c they've faced relationship problems before and is seeking others help. However, people over adjust a lot and they do have a tendency to turn slightly, if not moderately misogynistic. I whole heartedly believe that there are women out there who won't cheat. Honestly, how hard is it to say "i feel like this isn't working out and i think we shouldn't see each other anymore." ? Here's the simple 1,2,3 steps.

1)Woman has no interest while dating you exclusively.
2)Woman tells you she has no interest and breaks up.
3)Woman dates another guy. (and for the people who say "but what's a "DATE"?!!!111") Well, a date is what the woman feels like is a date, an event she uses to find out if the guy's right for her.

Now if she skips from 1 to 3 without hitting two, it's cheating. SImple as that.
 

tiburon

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AmgineEx

I agree with your cheating standards of steps, but i aint talking ****...anyone who thinks they know a person in just one year is really blinded.. i mean do you think you really get to know someone in one year? Give me a break...Gio used to be a cool guy in my mind until the moment he acted like a kid..but he is arrogant ..maybe because of all his posts or those articles in the BIble which are good ill admit...but i was engaged too and many people were married for really long time and find out the person who they were with and had carefully tested had different features they didnt know about.!!

Gio response is going to be (as he already answer this once )something like:
"It aint my fault you werent as wise as me in looking at who you were really getting ready to marry "

Man the guy is smart but to0 arrogant to hear any advise, therfore let him be..but i tell you , that noo ne knows another person enough in one year, even if she is a virgin raised in Jerusalem in a catholic nun school, imagine a woman who had an ex who used drug , was an alcoholic, and very violent, ( i dont know if she used drugs in the past ), and she has a baby with him..!!

Just being realistic not talking ****

Tiburon
 
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