Yes, good girls DO cheat

[Survivor]

I think Gio's point is that irregardless of how nature has programmed us, human beings still have the right to choose. And its only just that adult human beings be held accountable for the choices they make.

While I agree with Gio in principle, my concern is that people don't know the difference between a character judgement and a stereotype.

 

[Ronin I]

Originally posted by Quick
Psychologists...statistics??

It's not statistically impossible. Two people are in a relationship. The girl cheats with a guy who's single. That's one more female that cheated than males. If that happens over several relationships, the gap grows bigger. Nothing impossible about that, without the inclusion of homosexual relationships.

Thanks Quick - Psychologists do have to know and understand some statistics (those that do research anyway) but the rest of your argument is spot on.

 

[Quick]

Originally posted by Giovanni Casanova

In an anonymous survey or questionaire, most people will be honest about this sort of thing. These surveys are conducted in such a way as to produce the most honest results possible.


EVERYONE is capable of cheating. But not everyone WILL cheat. Just because you've never murdered someone in cold blood before doesn't mean that you won't if the right circumstances come along... you know, someone you really hate, they make you mad, you just happen to have a gun in your hand, and you kill them.

Basically, you're a murderer. [/B]

I didn't say that all girls cheat. I just said that your survey results don't disprove that statement. You seem to take it for granted that those other 48% won't cheat. We know nothing about that 48% except that they don't admit to cheating in the past. For the purpose of disproving that "even good girls will cheat" those statistics are meaningless.

You also ignored my other points. Who was surveyed? What did they define as cheating?

 

[Ronin I]

Originally posted by Survivor
I think Gio's point is that irregardless of how nature has programmed us, human beings still have the right to choose. And its only just that adult human beings be held accountable for the choices they make.

Accountability - this is where in my opinion ot all falls apart on the woman's side. Lately all I seem to encounter are women that refuse to be held accountable for their actions. It's sickening.

We as men have to be acountable for the things we do and as MEN we do not shy, or at least shouldn't shy away from the consequences of our actions. Lately all I run into are spoiled little girls that DO NOT take responsibility for their actions NOR are they held accountable by the wussfied men in their lives. (I have been guilty of this myself in the past).

No accountability!

Isn't it in the Muslim religion where if the woman commits adultery the man can punish her by burning her alive? Now that's accountability!

Seriously though these days we often dismiss such "old skool"/traditional views but there is some wisdom in them. Women are to be handled - not coddled.

 

[MysteryWoman]

Lets go back to basics and take the evolution theory, men must fcuk around to spread their seeds and women must be selective (as they have only a limited amount of eggs). That must mean that men are promisicous and women aren't. Wrong for these men who have managed to fcuk around, it is because a lot of women let them and there are lots of women about who are willing to get laid by many different men. Thus many men have the privillge to be promiscious. If there are men who don't get laid much and keep getting rejected, it is because they are not meeting the women on the whole who are prepared to put out.

Therefore on the whole men and women are equally promiscious on the whole, of course it is possible in a relationship for one partner to have had more partners than the other. When things balance out both genders wind up equal

 

[Quick]

Originally posted by DJjazzyJeff
So what if your girlfriend cheats on you with another girl? Is that not cheating? So much for simple.

I wasn't trying to prove anything. I was just disproving the assertion that it's statistically impossible for one gender to cheat more than another. All I need to disprove that was to show how it is possible. Your example doesn't add anything to that argument. Yes, it's simple.

Ronin: I know that psychologists need to know statistics, I was just wondering why that part was added as if that meant something.

 

[Survivor]

Originally posted by MysteryWoman
Lets go back to basics and take the evolution theory, men must fcuk around to spread their seeds and women must be selective (as they have only a limited amount of eggs). That must mean that men are promisicous and women aren't. Wrong for these men who have managed to fcuk around, it is because a lot of women let them and there are lots of women about who are willing to get laid by many different men. Thus many men have the privillge to be promiscious. If there are men who don't get laid much and keep getting rejected, it is because they are not meeting the women on the whole who are prepared to put out.

Therefore on the whole men and women are equally promiscious on the whole, of course it is possible in a relationship for one partner to have had more partners than the other. When things balance out both genders wind up equal

Nice try, but no cigar.

Gio can spout statistics, MysteryWoman can spout evolutionary theories; it all still doesn't refute the simple fact.

Sex and sexuality are choices. You can chose to cheat. You can chose not to. And with all choices, comes RESPONSIBILITY.

 

[AmgineEX]

Quick wrote:

It's not statistically impossible. Two people are in a relationship. The girl cheats with a guy who's single. That's one more female that cheated than males. If that happens over several relationships, the gap grows bigger. Nothing impossible about that, without the inclusion of homosexual relationships.

Quick, i think what mystery's trying to say is similar to flipping a perfectly balanced coin. The chance of heads/tails are 50/50 (now lets disregard hormones etc jus to prove my point). Sure, the first few times you flip the coin, it's not going to be 50/50. But the MORE you flip the coin (larger sampling pool in statistics) the closer it gets to 50/50. Sure, maybe right as this second, 3 women cheated and 0 men did, but the next second 5 men may cheat and not a single women did. In the long run, if everything's equal, the chance will always hover at 50/50.

I didn't say that all girls cheat. I just said that your survey results don't disprove that statement. You seem to take it for granted that those other 48% won't cheat. We know nothing about that 48% except that they don't admit to cheating in the past. For the purpose of disproving that "even good girls will cheat" those statistics are meaningless.

You also ignored my other points. Who was surveyed? What did they define as cheating?

You are being narrow minded. I'll play the devil's advocate here. Sure, out of those 48% women, some might have cheated but what makes you certain that the other 52% did, for CERTAIN, cheated? You can't be sure, you can only take their words for it. Some of the women who say they cheated might just be saying it b/c they want to skew the statistics. Now I know you're goin to say but AMGINE!!!111 you're being so UNREALISTIC!!!?!?!!11... Well, you know what, so are you, b/c there's always a margin of error in statistics. Just because one side favors you doesnt mean the margin of error doesnt affect it.

How do i define cheating? Well, there's a gray area on that to some people. I think cheating is when a woman knows what she's doing is unscrupulous yet she continues to do it for personal satisfaction or when a woman reaches the stage of making out with the other man. While i agree the surveyed population plays a huge role in the statistics, i doubt they will be asking women well out of the dating pool who's cheated and who has not because it would be irrelevant to the readers. I mean, how many people's interested in whether some grandma cheated on grandpa 50 years ago?

 

[AmgineEX]

Nice try, but no cigar.

Gio can spout statistics, MysteryWoman can spout evolutionary theories; it all still doesn't refute the simple fact.

Sex and sexuality are choices. You can chose to cheat. You can chose not to. And with all choices, comes RESPONSIBILITY.

And you're spouting none sense . I really don't get what you're trying to say. Are you saying women arent as responsible? *boggle* No one was refuting those facts and I'm sure people understand that people choose to cheat/no to cheat.

 

[Quick]

Originally posted by Survivor
Nice try, but no cigar.

Gio can spout statistics, MysteryWoman can spout evolutionary theories; it all still doesn't refute the simple fact.

Sex and sexuality are choices. You can chose to cheat. You can chose not to. And with all choices, comes RESPONSIBILITY.

True. Personally, I know that there are girls that won't cheat, because I know that there are guys that won't cheat (namely, me). Once I commit to a girl, I will not try to get with other girls unless I've ended it with my current one. A female has just as much ability to choose as I do. The problem is knowing what she will or won't do when I meet her, which is impossible. So many of the girls I meet are non-introspective, and don't even know themselves what they are capable of.

I just argued against the statistics because one of my pet peeves is seeing them misused, which they are, 97.836% of the time.

 

[Quick]

Originally posted by AmgineEX
Quick wrote:


Quick, i think what mystery's trying to say is similar to flipping a perfectly balanced coin. The chance of heads/tails are 50/50 (now lets disregard hormones etc jus to prove my point). Sure, the first few times you flip the coin, it's not going to be 50/50. But the MORE you flip the coin (larger sampling pool in statistics) the closer it gets to 50/50. Sure, maybe right as this second, 3 women cheated and 0 men did, but the next second 5 men may cheat and not a single women did. In the long run, if everything's equal, the chance will always hover at 50/50.

Human beings are not coins, and everything doesn't always come out equal between the genders. There are genetic or societal forces that influence how men and women act. Most divorces are filed by women by a wide margin. If you add more divorces, most will still have been filed by women. Human beings don't live in a vacuum, everything isn't equal, and you can't predict a 50/50 split in human behavior.

You are being narrow minded. I'll play the devil's advocate here. Sure, out of those 48% women, some might have cheated but what makes you certain that the other 52% did, for CERTAIN, cheated? You can't be sure, you can only take their words for it. Some of the women who say they cheated might just be saying it b/c they want to skew the statistics. Now I know you're goin to say but AMGINE!!!111 you're being so UNREALISTIC!!!?!?!!11... Well, you know what, so are you, b/c there's always a margin of error in statistics. Just because one side favors you doesnt mean the margin of error doesnt affect it.

How do i define cheating? Well, there's a gray area on that to some people. I think cheating is when a woman knows what she's doing is unscrupulous yet she continues to do it for personal satisfaction or when a woman reaches the stage of making out with the other man. While i agree the surveyed population plays a huge role in the statistics, i doubt they will be asking women well out of the dating pool who's cheated and who has not because it would be irrelevant to the readers. I mean, how many people's interested in whether some grandma cheated on grandpa 50 years ago?

You would have to assume that as many people on the other side simply wanted to skew the statistics as on the first side. There's a social stigma against cheating, however there is none against being faithful. That motivation is not balanced on both sides. Regardless, that wasn't my biggest objection, and i'm willing to assume that a relatively small number of people flat out lied.

I'll ignore the "narrow minded" statement. I don't know why people think insults make their point stronger. It doesn't.

I wasn't asking how you define cheating, I was asking how the survey defined cheating. The original poster included emotional cheating in his definition. Did the survey? You make a good point about the 50 year olds, but at least you know that if they were ever going to cheat, they probably already did it. A 20 year old guy or girl may not have cheated, but they still have most of their dating lives ahead of them, and may do so in the future.

 

[Ronin I]

Originally posted by AmgineEX



Quick, i think what mystery's trying to say is similar to flipping a perfectly balanced coin. The chance of heads/tails are 50/50 (now lets disregard hormones etc jus to prove my point). Sure, the first few times you flip the coin, it's not going to be 50/50. But the MORE you flip the coin (larger sampling pool in statistics) the closer it gets to 50/50. Sure, maybe right as this second, 3 women cheated and 0 men did, but the next second 5 men may cheat and not a single women did. In the long run, if everything's equal, the chance will always hover at 50/50.

This is wrong on many fronts.

Perfectly balanced coin = every relationship is exactly the same (obviously no where near the truth).

50/50 chance of heads or tails = 50/50 chance that in these identical relationships (which do not exist in the first place) that either the woman will cheat or the man will cheat (what about the possibility that neither will cheat?)

A coin flip is an i.i.d. event - independent and identically distributed event. You can flip a coin one hundred times in a row and get heads every time but when you flip it the 101st time your chance of getting tails is still only 50%.

The behavior across human beings is NOT i.i.d. - it is very dependent on a myriad of factors (culture, evolution(genetics), the circumstances we are in at the time, etc, etc but probably most importantly in making my point - our PAST experiences).

 

[Giovanni Casanova]

Originally posted by Quick
The original poster included emotional cheating in his definition.

"Emotionally cheating" is such a lame-ass Oprah-term that I can't believe it's being batted around on this board of all places. Obviously it's cheating if someone in a committed relationship has sex with a person who isn't their partner. But is it still cheating if someone just THINKS about having sex with someone who isn't their partner? But where do you draw the line? Is it cheating if you TALK to someone of the opposite sex? What about if you just LOOK at someone of the opposite sex? WTF is "emotionally cheating" supposed to BE, anyway?

If I come up to you and put a gun to your head and spray your brain into a fine mist on the wall, I have obviously murdered you. But what if I just THINK about doing it, without actually doing it? Am I guilty of "emotionally murdering" you, or some other similarly lame-termed crime?

And how can you tell if someone is "emotionally cheating" on you anyway? Thought control? That's a little too Orwellian for my tastes, thanks.

 

[RazzleDazzle]

I see this post is now just about flaming. with some side track thoughts on cheating. The post started with "even good girls cheat". It's true. Everyone has a price. The same goes with cheating. Line up the circumstances, emotions, alcohol, whatever and everyone of us would cheat. Can any of you deny this?

No, you can't. Bill was right when he said there is no such thing as a good girl. It's a myth. There are just girls. Each one different.

I still say this is such a heated discussion is because some of us have girls who would "never cheat on us". And most of us have been burned by women who have cheated on us. It hurts so let's beatch about it.

I also don't put much faith in this 54% guys cheat 50% girls cheat thing. Any study done where human beings have to answer honestly then you're going to have a big error. What some consider cheating others do not. There are just too many variables in a study/questionair that asks for an honest answer.

 

[tiburon]

Geo i am tired of your arrogance

Dear Casanova want to be: who made you God to tell people not to put their opinions outthere..I AM SORRY MR KNOWS IT ALL( but really is a huge AFC).

Man read a bit ..my point was i dont know anything about your woman but the fact is you know just a bit more..if you are going to quote be a man and dont quote a part to your advantage.

Second i am not being a kid because i am ten times the man you are ...no need to prove it. If you dont want to hear opinions responding to your posts then DONT POST!

Third. my point was you dont know shyt about your woman to say if she is more likely or less likely to cheat on you....Nevertheless to make such a huge decision.

Finally all those post and all those bible articles you can stick them up you arrogont a$$ because in my mind you are a nerd who think he knows, think he is mature ,and calls himself a DJ when he really is an Arrogant AFC who is to good to ever take anyone elses opinion....because GOD FORBID FOR YOU TO CONTRADICT THE GREAT GIOVANI CASANOVA...HE IS NEVER WRONG..Dude in my mind you are worse than a poor AFC who has gotten his heart broken and joins sosuave for the first time.
The new member atleast is willing to listen and realizes his mistakes..you are so arrogant you dont learn from anything nor anybody..

"More knows a jackass asquing question than a wise man responding"

Farewell in your marriage and be a man..would ya?

Tiburon

 

[sAxyguy83]

Some guys are actually pretty good judges of character. It helps to look at her face instead of her chest from time to time. GC knows WORLDS more about his girl than anyone else on this forum. He's spent a lot of time with the specific intent of getting to know her. Are you saying that he can spend a year with this girl and not know her much better than you, who have no information about her whatsoever, know her? BS!

And BTW, tiburon, looking at the way you conduct yourself and the way you expect any future wife of yours to conduct herself, I'd say you're probably one of the biggest hypocrites I've ever encountered.

 

[tiburon]

saxy..you need to leanr alot son

Dear saxy:

Man first of all read the whole thread before just criticizing ...your question was anwered by a previous post i wrote. I am getting tired of guys like you who are so lazy to bother reading and just take an opinion on 10 percent of the info...but here it goes...so you learn a bit..

First if you have read before you would had seen that i mean he knows just a bit more of what i do compared to the amounts of stuff he doesnt know. Its like saying your house its a mansion and i live in a parking lot..you own just a bit more of land compare to all the land there is to own in the world if you could ever own it all. I hope this clarifies ....

Finally dont go calling people hypocrites without taking some time to write and say what makes them a hypocrit....Chances are you will find out you are fustrated, have misunderstood , or something else but realize there is no need for someone to be a hypocrite in a board where no one knows you and you are just helping people with advice and every now and day taken some back.....Maybe reading the definition of hypocrites might help..

Sincerely someone who has no beaf with you..

Tiburon

 

[DJ Logic]

I am a good guy. I don´t cheat. Never have.

Some girls might say good guys are myths. I am proof that we are quite real. To make such a sweeping generalization that all women will cheat is pure ignorance. Sure a vast majority may fall into this category, but it is foolish to assume everyone is a depraved slave to their own fleeting whims. Some of us have more self-control.

Have I ever thought of cheating? OF COURSE! Lusting for other women was often the fuel for many sexual escapades with my LTRs. I consider it to be a healthy relationship when I can point out an attractive woman to my LTR and say "Damn she is hot!".

Gio said it best. Thought and action are two different things. This is totally 1984 Thought-Crime sheeit you guys are talkin here. We can all argue statistics and scientific theories, but none of those things account for the anomaly of PERSONAL CHOICE. We all have the power to run our lives as we see fit. To condemn an entire gender for the possibility of infidelity reveals a disturbing trend on this board between bitter old fukks who will never trust/love again and foolish young pricks who talk out of their asses without any experience to back it up.

Funny thing about this issue is that from my experience, it is usually the suspicious and untrusting guys who get cheated on! In the final analysis, jealousy and mistrust are decidedly NOT SoSuave my friends. I am not saying we should blndly trust women not to cheat, but for the love of God, have some faith in your fellow man..er woman!

 

[tiburon]

Agree to a certain extent

Yeah i dont cheat also and i know there are good women outther who dont either ..yet they are harder and harder to find specially one that matches you, and in this game nothing is forsure.


"Thought and action are two different things" agree aswell, but man i have been inl ove in this live and when you love a woman, when you really love a woman you dont think of cheating on her, ibut there are defenetely different degrees of love ofcourse. You should had faith in a person and also agree in not being blindly believrs of her never cheating...but faith its is not something you give to a person from a day to the next..it takes actions and learning the person they are, how they have reacted when you were down , when you argued, did she go out with her friedns or did she try to work things out, and other little things that show you who is the person by your side. I TRUST ONLY THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE PROVEN THEMSELVES TRUSTWORTHY....and I expect for people not to trust me right of the bat..they dont know me well enough.

"Funny thing about this issue is that it is usually the suspicious and untrusting guys who get cheated on!"

I dont know about this because many get cheated and dont find out and you could be one of this. My final point is being cheated could happened to anyone ..a DJ or an AFC. it depends who is the girl..and i believ people confuse optimism pessimism and reality alot in these posts ..

Tiburon

 

[DJ Logic]

I was addressing my post to those guys who believe good girls dont exist. Decidedly pessimistic point of view wouldnt you say?

At least you have the sense to know that when it comes to human behavior, there are no absolutes and there are plenty of exceptions to every rule.

Ultimately I just have to disagree with the original poster.

Good girls do not cheat. They may be hard as **** to find but they do exist and will be faithful to a man that fulfills their needs and keeps giving them mind-shattering orgasms