Welcome to My World!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IWillReturnsoon]

In my honest opinion, true game is:

You game a girl, with her knowing ur interests and willing to risk getting rejected from it.

Not as much true game:

You try to hide ur intentions or interests in the hope of not being rejected at the start, while wasting time to get her to fully warm up before u try to do so.

Its like this:

You need a favor done by a friend, but u do favors for him first. He's happy, but then u finally ask him for a favor.

Rather than

Just asking him outright.

 

[greenlake]

to the "W" to the "J" to the "H"....huh? WTF!

OK, let me get this straight. You're telling us that the reason you're approaching women directly, in the manner that you have, is so that you can build confidence for the future?

Yes m'am. Not only that, but also for the reason that I won't waste time with a girl who for some reason has a boyfriend or not interested in me. FOR THE FUTURE BABY!! It not only will it help with me the women part but it also help me with other aspect of my life. Like asking for a promotion or telling my parents I want to move out.

LOL - That's a first, building confidence from utter failure!?

There is no failure in my eyes. There is only not trying. So it's a win-win situation.

And ya, I totally agree, a girl who shoots down a guy with a direct approach, is DEFINITELY sexy to her... YA RIGHT! That doesn't even make logical sense. If he was sexy, attractive, fun, whatever, then he wouldn't have been rejected LOL

One of the reason why she might reject him because she wasn't ready at that point. I can tell you some girls pay more attention to me after I direct them. BTW, direct approach her acting like you're needy is another story which is bad but if you direct approach her and accept the fact that there are other women out there and moved on once she rejected you then that is SEXY! Ever rejected a girl and regret afterward? Yea, that's what i'm talking about.

Look, if you want confidence, you need to redirect your energy. You say you have other priorities and want to sign/dance/whatever, then do that. You have had no success with a single girl since you started this journal other than being able to take hits to your ego.

BRING IT ON BABY! I want more hits to my ego. Feeling happy doesn't mean I have to be success with girls. Self confidence is what I want. Ego is what I don't want. I can tell you that I'm confident enough to post my true approaches on here while other people lied about their approaches or even worse, haven't done any!

No one is saying that you should give up trying to pick up girls while you re-prioritize, but dude, the only thing you're accomplishing here is building thicker skin. That's fine and all, but you're not going to get laid that way.

Please reread my posts/journal......

Why are you so opposed to another strategy? The proof is in the pudding.

That sounds more like my line to you. Again, please reread my journal.....sigh..

You're asserting the fact that you have so many things you want to do in your life, but are trying to pick up girls directly as a confidence booster? On top if it you're failing miserably? LOL

Hahah dude! What's with the "LOL." You remind me of the asian girls i talked to online.
greenlake:hey, how r u?
asiangirl: fine LOL, u?
greenlake: i'm good. what did u do today?
asiangirl: drinking boba tea LOL

btw, confidence booster.....they feel great....but i want permanent confident DAMMIT!

You make zero sense to me. Maybe it's a cultural thing.

Yea sorry man. I can not help you here. It's the Asian gene.

Please reply back soon! I love talking to you!

 

[wjh]

That was pathetic, honestly. He is BUILDING confidence, from taking on his worst fears. You think he's less confident as a result of this? He had alot of AA and he is getting rid of it...while other guys try to run away from rejection. He's being a man and being indifferent to it. That's power. And how is what he's doing failure? Its a success...he improving his behavior...he doesn't care if he gets so much interest right now.

That’s not confidence he’s building. That’s being able to take an ego hit. Fine, there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. But that sure as hell isn't a skill set he had prior to practicing this non-trial-by-failure method.

Rapport and receptive/observant IOI are incredibly important in my style of approach. There is an art to it that I find fascinating and alluring. I find the “dance” between man and woman to be more fulfilling given the different stages of flirtation, qualifying (on both parts), and boundary pushing in varying degrees… All in a single approach.

Power, in my humble opinion, has nothing to do with it for me. Handling rejection is basic. Being a man is important, but that to me has nothing to do with trying to have power for power’s sake.

If he had a lot of AA and was trying to overcome it by elevating his ego, he could have done it any number of ways. He chose this method and to him it’s satisfactory. For me, it’s not.

When I first came on this board and read the various things that I did, I didn’t want to destroy my ego, and then build it up again, with zero-result assaults. It made no sense to me. Instead of learning to become a better more skillful fighter, I was just going to learn how to take hits better? No thank you. I know what rejection is like and I know that it’s mostly avoidable if you’re smart, cool, and observant.

Does that mean you don’t take chances? Does that mean you don’t risk a close? Of course not. But certain parameters can and will exist that make an approach a hell of a lot more rewarding.

You fail to see the power of direct, done the right way. He's moving toward the right way....he is getting more confident. It makes perfect sense.

We must have a fundamental misunderstanding of what confidence is because I don't agree. That’s not confidence, it’s just thick skin. Confidence is an inherent belief in your own abilities. Being able to take a punch is not an ability it’s a defense mechanism.

Bull! Even sexy, attractive, fun guys get rejected. Plain and simple. There are many reasons why girls reject guys, even if they're interested. Did u consider that some women who are in relationships are actually happy and don't want to risk harming it?

Of course I did. But obviously the sexy, attractive, fun, X, Y and Z alpha would have a HELL of a lot more success than greenlake. He hasn’t had a successful anything-close. That’s just not my idea of a good or worthwhile time. It has nothing to do with this direct method being superior. It's a tool that seems based plainly on learning to deal with rejection.

He is doing what he likes to do already...so thats fine. He's doing pickup as well. His ego is strong as hell. He's handling rejection well...many guys quit if they've experience this kind of rejection...let alone getting rejected period. Most guys would say, 'I can't approach her! She'll reject me!' What's greenlake doing? He's approaching knowing full well that he might get rejected. Also this rejection is good...he's finding out right away if she's fully interested or not. She's doing him a favor....no wasted time...no games...being honest. Thats much better than a girl Manipulating you by appearing interested, u getting her number, and then flaking you, i know that would feel much worse.

So he is gaining confidence, its not something u get handed to u, its something that gets developed and its being developed right now. Confident is not being fearless, its taken action even if u have fear and thats what he's doing.

He's accomplished thicker skin and MUCH MUCH more. He is destroying the blockers in his head. He can go up to a woman he chooses. His way is fine and will get laid this way.

There is no such proof of him failing. He has tried other strategies and this one is benefiting him more, and he is satisfied with it.

He's tried indirect before and he told me he didn't like it. But now eversince he's on his road to Mode One, he's never been happier...finally feeling more free rather than still feeling regret, being ashamed, being afraid...thats more rewarding than getting tons of pvssy and still having those feelings.

HE HAS FAILED ZERO! he is SUCCEEDING VERY WELL...by going up to a woman. U've already won. U found out if she was interested or not. Getting a number and getting laid is not success. He is getting through his worst fears...that is very hard, if it wasn't then almost all these guys on this board would be getting the success they want and obviously only at most 20% of people on this board get that...if not even less.

Wow, i got a number and got laid! I succeeded! A number is nothing, its hella easy getting a number...just be friendly, ask a girl and she'll give it to u. Plain and simple. Even getting laid aint success...just be drunk...get a girl drunk...bang her...thats not success.

This whole last block is you over-simplifying "the game" and your own assumptions.

As I've already stated, what you've said is as simple as being able to take a hit. Like being a boxer with no jab, left-hook, uppercut, or right-cross. You're just a solid punching bag.

Now, I understand that there is value in that, so you can stop being so assertive about it. I've understood that in-and-of-itself, being able to take rejection is a good thing. However, that is not seduction. Being able to maneuver conversation and mood skillfully is paramount. Rapport is critical. Keen observation is vastly worth more than just being helpful.

Cultural thing? Bull sh1t....the game applies to all cultures. You make even less sense, u have no credibility whatsoever...hell atleast greenlake is showing his progress...while u don't even have anything to show for it.

No, "the game” does not apply to all cultures evenly. Have you ever been to a Muslim country? Try this direct approach in Saudi Arabia and see what happens. I hate to use hyperbole, but you fail to see the reality of cultural and social influences and their impact.

Direct Game is very powerful and is a mindset. Ur bold, upfront, and straightforward with your desires, intentions, and interests...without apologizing....not only in the game but in life in general.

Going up to a woman and telling her u find her attractive and want to meet her its what they dream...even getting wet over...its their fantasy....rather than a guy who just tries to avoid getting rejected(Gets postponed) at the start but will soon or later with something a woman could care less about.

Greenlake is on that path.

This is laughable and your own fantasizing. I find plenty of women that don't JUST want to be desired. That's good enough if they're 17 and just finishing up puberty. Or are used up peep-show mops. But most quality, attractive, and desirable women are going to need a bit more in the form of romance and seduction to get them to go beyond a "Hi you're pretty wanna f***?"

Sexual states, physical attraction, real confidence, a real life, passions, being observant, those are the qualities the women I choose to date look for. Why? Because they're worth more than a subdued ego.

Your own overzealousness is raw evidence of the fact that you can't level with a different strategy. Are you saying your Direct Method is superior to any other strategy at all times? Because that would be plain wrong.

Being assertive can and will work. Being Direct is just one of various tactics.

But the worst part of all this? Your reliance on it as a catch-all is severely limiting your own potential exploits.

 

[wjh]

Please reply back soon! I love talking to you!

PM me when you actually have sex with a girl not paid for by your local truck-stop savings fund.

 

[IWillReturnsoon]

That’s not confidence he’s building. That’s being able to take an ego hit. Fine, there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. But that sure as hell isn't a skill set he had prior to practicing this non-trial-by-failure method.

But now he almost has the skill of not fearing rejection. Thats a big time skill, he's on his way...he's on his way to becoming more congruent with the way he expresses his interests and intentions.

Rapport and receptive/observant IOI are incredibly important in my style of approach. There is an art to it that I find fascinating and alluring. I find the “dance” between man and woman to be more fulfilling given the different stages of flirtation, qualifying (on both parts), and boundary pushing in varying degrees… All in a single approach.

Yes...i believe that is something good that should occur in interactions. Agreed. But Deep Rapport, in the first meeting, can be overrated...as sometimes you don't have to spend so much time setting something up with the girl. 5 Minutes can be what it takes...can be even less.

Power, in my humble opinion, has nothing to do with it for me. Handling rejection is basic. Being a man is important, but that to me has nothing to do with trying to have power for power’s sake.

Handling rejection is not basic, it takes a good amount of courage to do so. Even, willing to be rejected, takes even more. Ur not trying to have power, u are automatically getting it and we all know power is an aphrodisiac with women. Confidence is power.

If he had a lot of AA and was trying to overcome it by elevating his ego, he could have done it any number of ways. He chose this method and to him it’s satisfactory. For me, it’s not.

QUOTE: You, not him. He doesn't care if it doesn't apply to u, he only cares if it applies to him.

When I first came on this board and read the various things that I did, I didn’t want to destroy my ego, and then build it up again, with zero-result assaults. It made no sense to me. Instead of learning to become a better more skillful fighter, I was just going to learn how to take hits better? No thank you. I know what rejection is like and I know that it’s mostly avoidable if you’re smart, cool, and observant.

You will still get rejected, even if ur smart, cool and observant. Except for maybe eye contact first game...which is good game, but we are talking about cold approaching here, w/o e/c invitations.

Does that mean you don’t take chances? Does that mean you don’t risk a close? Of course not. But certain parameters can and will exist that make an approach a hell of a lot more rewarding.

From what i've heard from him, this IS rewarding to him.

We must have a fundamental misunderstanding of what confidence is because I don't agree. That’s not confidence, it’s just thick skin. Confidence is an inherent belief in your own abilities. Being able to take a punch is not an ability it’s a defense mechanism.

A defense mechanism would be trying to prevent it. He's taking it head on, consciously. Thats confidence. Confidence is taking action even when ur afraid, when having faith in urself. Even the most confident people in the world are sometimes afraid, but they still take action.

Of course I did. But obviously the sexy, attractive, fun, X, Y and Z alpha would have a HELL of a lot more success than greenlake. He hasn’t had a successful anything-close. That’s just not my idea of a good or worthwhile time. It has nothing to do with this direct method being superior. It's a tool that seems based plainly on learning to deal with rejection.

You're too result oriented, if he just wanted to get laid alot faster...he would stuck with indirect, but he just didnt' like it.Don't knock direct till u try it. He's tried indirect already, now he's direct.I've tried indirect and i didn't like it.

This whole last block is you over-simplifying "the game" and your own assumptions.

The game is suppose to be simple....most people overcomplicate it here.

As I've already stated, what you've said is as simple as being able to take a hit. Like being a boxer with no jab, left-hook, uppercut, or right-cross. You're just a solid punching bag.

A boxer must get use to taking punches or else he'll knocked out easily. He doing game that he wants to do, and getting rejected is fine for this point.

Now, I understand that there is value in that, so you can stop being so assertive about it.

I'll be as much assertive as i want to be.

I've understood that in-and-of-itself, being able to take rejection is a good thing. However, that is not seduction. Being able to maneuver conversation and mood skillfully is paramount. Rapport is critical. Keen observation is vastly worth more than just being helpful.

You think he's not working on that? If he was ONLY concerned about taking rejection, he would just say anything. But no, he's concerned about rejection AND getting better while not caring if he gets his interest recprocated just yet. He's getting better...u think he's failing?

No, "the game” does not apply to all cultures evenly. Have you ever been to a Muslim country? Try this direct approach in Saudi Arabia and see what happens. I hate to use hyperbole, but you fail to see the reality of cultural and social influences and their impact.

I never said it applied to them EVENLY, i said it just applied to all cultures

This is laughable and your own fantasizing. I find plenty of women that don't JUST want to be desired.

Women are designed to desire a man, except lesbians. If u think otherwise, ur kidding urself. Women want to be desired by a man and/or men.

That's good enough if they're 17 and just finishing up puberty. Or are used up peep-show mops. But most quality, attractive, and desirable women are going to need a bit more in the form of romance and seduction to get them to go beyond a "Hi you're pretty wanna f***?"

This is just a blocker you have. Even some of the hottest women just want sex and maybe tired of dating. There are wholesome pretenders who say they want all this stuff, but next thing u know...they be one of the kinkiest, freakiest girls u've ever heard of...that will freak u the hell out....who could care less about romance.

PM me when you actually have sex with a girl not paid for by your local truck-stop savings fund.

Believe me, once Greenlake is done...he'll be one of the greatest of sosuave ever. Hell, JWhite proved alot of theory wrong by doing an "Are you single?" Opener. He got what he wanted.

Sexual states, physical attraction, real confidence, a real life, passions, being observant, those are the qualities the women I choose to date look for. Why? Because they're worth more than a subdued ego.

But maybe Greenlake doesn't care for dating right now, but just wants sex. Also, what U may want may not be what GREENLAKE wants.

Your own overzealousness is raw evidence of the fact that you can't level with a different strategy. Are you saying your Direct Method is superior to any other strategy at all times? Because that would be plain wrong.

This is my strategy and I have full faith and full back up for it. I never said it was SUPERIOR to anything else...but i did say I BELIEVE it is better for overall game than most other methods out there. Sometimes indirect can be better in a different situation...for example: If u really did need an opinion on something but so happen that girl u saw was attractive or that you really truly wanted to tease the girl and get her friends to tease her, to be playful.

Being assertive can and will work. Being Direct is just one of various tactics.

But the worst part of all this? Your reliance on it as a catch-all is severely limiting your own potential exploits.

I will have these exploits MY WAY. If i don't want to do it another way, than i don't have to, because i choose it this way. Getting loads and loads of sex is what i don't care about, its getting the great abundance of sex within my choosing is the intention. If i miss more ass, because i choose to stick with direct...so be it...there are a ton more. I don't try to please a chick, cuz its what she wants...i tell my intention with her and if she likes it...NICE! If not, the next young lady. Also, i forgot to mention....direct is a mindset...where ur more straightforward and upfront in ur life, not just women only.

 

[On Point]

Guys are different, so of course different styles are going to work best for different people. Trying to argue one is better than another seems pretty pointless to me. My style is more direct, I just go with the moment. Seems to work fine. I have a good sense of humor which helps.

The thing you seem to be missing wjh, is that some guys aren't going to succeed for a while. You have to come up with a productive mindset where you're progressing and can maintain your confidence.

In the beginning, it's better to define success as gaining experience rather than getting laid or a specific close or whatever. It doesn't take long before you can accomplish more, but you have to walk before you run and acknowledging this is helpful.

I've taken that approach and it has been working well for me. This last week I started # closing and things keep getting better and progressing further. I'm learning and mostly having fun doing it, and I'm not stressing out because I don't close every chick or whatever.

 

[IWillReturnsoon]

Guys are different, so of course different styles are going to work best for different people. Trying to argue one is better than another seems pretty pointless to me. My style is more direct, I just go with the moment. Seems to work fine. I have a good sense of humor which helps.

Good point! I'm not saying that i have a problem with indirect, its just i have a problem with these guys saying his way of direct is bad and criticizing it while they haven't even tried it. Greenlake has tried indirect, and he didn't like it.

The thing you seem to be missing wjh, is that some guys aren't going to succeed for a while. You have to come up with a productive mindset where you're progressing and can maintain your confidence.

Exactly!

In the beginning, it's better to define success as gaining experience rather than getting laid or a specific close or whatever. It doesn't take long before you can accomplish more, but you have to walk before you run and acknowledging this is helpful.

I've taken that approach and it has been working well for me. This last week I started # closing and things keep getting better and progressing further. I'm learning and mostly having fun doing it, and I'm not stressing out because I don't close every chick or whatever.

Couldn't had said it better myself. Ur doing what works for you...thats all that matters...womanizers can learn whatever style they want, that fits with them. Greenlake chooses this one, don't criticize him for doing a way he wants...unless u have enough credibiilty and support to back it up. On Point is credible.

 

[Agent Zero]

wjh, Do you even approach at all? If you did approach, you would know that rejection from some random girl doesn't hurt! Not at all, you feel happy after you do it cause you did it! That is the success right there. You aren't going to feel rejected. That's why you approach cause you keep getting that happy feeling and then you eventually have no fear whatsoever cause approaching is like eating pizza, makes u feel good.

 

[IWillReturnsoon]

That's why you approach cause you keep getting that happy feeling and then you eventually have no fear whatsoever cause approaching is like eating pizza, makes u feel good.

LOL...like eating pizza...mmm...

 

[Get Busy Livin']

IMO I think you should stop using "you look pretty." Otherwise you can end up sounding like every other guy. But, you can sometimes say something like "Hey you are really pretty but I don't think you could ever be with me..." That's sometimes good. Remember to use "YOU could never be with ME" and not vice versa. But not in the first-ish moments, you'd need some rapport at least.

 

[greenlake]

IMO I think you should stop using "you look pretty." Otherwise you can end up sounding like every other guy. But, you can sometimes say something like "Hey you are really pretty but I don't think you could ever be with me..." That's sometimes good. Remember to use "YOU could never be with ME" and not vice versa. But not in the first-ish moments, you'd need some rapport at least.

I agree, I need to be more genuine with my opener. But I can't think straight right now cause I'm nervous. But........End up sounding like every other guy? The every other guys i know would go up to her acting like he just want be friends and would never tell her she's pretty unless some one point a gun at him.

"You could never be with me."? hahah Is that ****y and funny i'm sensing? It'll be funny if a girl think that's you're serious and leave. *gasp* I would feel bitter. But if she think you're kidding then you're screw. Because everything sexual you say after that will be just a joke to her. Happens to me before.

 

[IWillReturnsoon]

Hey Greenlake, i agree with Get Busy Livin that just using the line, your pretty...it can limit u from what u truly want to say. I think its best to improvise the way u think the girl looks...like if a girl looks stunning...tell her that...if she looks cute...tell her that...if she has intense, beautiful eyes...u tell her that. But if u think she looks pretty...thats fine...and if she has a look u like but can't quite explain...why not say she looks very attractive? And u dont' have to be C/F if u don't want to...its overrated. ur natural playful/teasing side will come out naturally...when u and her click. That, imo, is better than "trying" to be ****y and Funny.

 

[Brak86]

Heyyy, I just saw this journal and I'm SO PROUD OF YOU MY MAN!!! KEEP IT UP.

A couple things: make sure to ALWAYS take criticism just as much as you do compliments. Wjh has a point. He has a couple. Direct is good, I did it a lot, but start to work on spontaneous conversation and do some variety!

That being said, you have just started out and you're doing better than a bunch of guys who are new to the game. Enjoy the process and don't try to get too complicated with this stuff right now.

Also, one thing that will spice up your interactions a bit are DISQUALIFIERS. I personally think they are more effective than ****y funny, because they are about Her, not You. It's a tease that will almost always get a laugh from the girl. If she mentions something, just mention something like "are you serious?! I could never hang out with you." Or, "that's it...we're done."
Something along those lines.

I will definately keep up with this. I am so happy you started a journal, buddy.

 

[Pimp-sicle]

In my honest opinion, true game is:

You game a girl, with her knowing ur interests and willing to risk getting rejected from it.

That's not true game, that's one part of developing game; conquering your fear of approaching and rejection.

Not as much true game:

You try to hide ur intentions or interests in the hope of not being rejected at the start, while wasting time to get her to fully warm up before u try to do so.

Remind me how indirect approaches hide the guy's intentions? The simple fact is that if you approach a girl she knows your interested in her. Also you keep on bringing up the lame opinion opener when referring to indirect game. News flash..... WJH and I NEVER endorsed that opener, ALL we are telling Greenlake is to try a different method. I even mentioned to stick with direct (to each his own) but change that god awful opener of "your pretty." Greenlake is failing because he hasn't created any VALUE in the eyes of the women he's approaching. Aside from physical attraction, the best way to create value is through rapport. You say rapport is over-rated...LOL I'm sure there are some $2.00 slvts out there who would hook-up with a guy, but they're also likely to be the same girls who will do a line of coke right after. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that Greenlake probably is looking for higher quality women then that.

Secondly, where in the world did you get the idea that it takes 30 minutes to do a indirect approach? It takes 4-5 minutes tops! If a guy is talking to a girl for 30 minutes on a cold approach he's already lost.

Its like this:

You need a favor done by a friend, but u do favors for him first. He's happy, but then u finally ask him for a favor.

Rather than

Just asking him outright.

LOL..... I love how you compare apples to oranges and try to pass them off as the same fruit. Guys and girls are COMPLETELY different creatures, you should know this by now.

Did you ever stop to think about how many guys gawk and stare at the HB8-9s on a daily basis? When they approach, at some point in the conversation they hand their balls to the girl in a plastic sandwich bag by going AFC on them and saying "your really pretty," "your stunning" "your eyes are majestic" or whatever other corny line they use. Without value(rapport), prizability or blatant physical attraction the ship will sink every time.

At the bars you see this all the time in a different form: buying girls drinks. A guy shouldn't have to buy a girl a drink for her to spend a few minutes talking to him. All this really tells a girl is "I'm not entertaining enough, so I'm going to buy you a drink so you'll stand here for a minute and talk to me."

The point I've been trying to make this whole time is for Greenlake to change his approach. And like I said he can stick with whatever style he likes best, but the "your pretty" bullshyt will get him no where.

PIMP

 

[IWillReturnsoon]

I wouldn't quite call it a disqualfier...but on the line of teasing and being playful(I guess i just don't like community terms anymore) but yea...One has to take criticism in order to succeed in the game...as somethings a women is intrigued/attracted to...can be frustrating to her ego...which as a result, will have her criticize u because she's not able to get her to say what she wants u to say.

 

[Pimp-sicle]

jwhite repeatedly proved you don't need to establish rapport and so did I in my approach #1. rapport is overrated.

Looks can create rapport. If a girl is physically attracted to you before you even mutter one word to her, you have a certain level of rapport already created. That's why good looking people have it easier in life, especially women. People are nicer to them, go out of their way more for them and the chumps are more willing to tolerate bullshyt behavior from them all because of their looks.

And JWhite's opener "Are you single?" (although I personally don't like it much) is 1000000000000x's better than the opener Greenlake is currently using.

IWILLRETURNSOON: You mentioned that WJH is "too results oriented." While I do agree that in anything you do, you must put the work in and struggle before you eventually succeed, there is simply no replacement for positive results. If Greenlake would have closed a couple of these girls (a date, fuvk etc) his confidence would have tripled over night. And the last we heard he's depressed and once again scared to approach....... Results are everything!




PIMP

 

[IWillReturnsoon]

That's not true game, that's one part of developing game; conquering your fear of approaching and rejection.

It is true game...because u don't care if the girl rejects u when u reveal ur intention to her. Thats not only conquering ur fear of approaching and rejection, we are also including the interaction as well.

Remind me how indirect approaches hide the guy's intentions? The simple fact is that if you approach a girl she knows your interested in her.

But they don't know EXACTLY what ur intentions are, they can only assume. Girls can be smart, but not that smart. Like a girl may think "Oh i bet he's going up to me because he likes me..." But then after 2 minutes..."Oh...he's just being friendly"

Also you keep on bringing up the lame opinion opener when referring to indirect game.

Indirect is mostly opinion, question, related openers. So if they're lame, not my fault O

News flash..... WJH and I NEVER endorsed that opener, ALL we are telling Greenlake is to try a different method.

He's tried them and doesn't like them...he's fine with the way he's doing things. If u can't accept it, so what...he's doing what he's doing. He said he wants to use "You're pretty' to help him convey what he truly wants to say in his opener. Don't say its horrible until after Greenlake's journal is done with to where he got NO girls, using that opener.

I even mentioned to stick with direct (to each his own) but change that god awful opener of "your pretty."

Sorry, but that was a horrible statement right there. I agree that only using "Your pretty" in terms of direct can be limiting, but I have to totally disagree on not using it. I've used "You're pretty" before and the girl lighted up quite a bit...now tell me that its awful now. ;-) Its definitely "How u say it" is what counts that gives its powerful effect. They would rarely work if u say it like a symp...like most guys do. O

Greenlake is failing because he hasn't created any VALUE in the eyes of the women he's approaching.

Greenlake is NOT failing, he is going through the trials necessary in the game....u aren't understanding that. You are too result oriented, to the point where im starting to doubt ur credibility....because obviously many of the best womanizers out there got rejected a hell of a lot at the start and don't as much now. Now tell me that they were failing? Also, u going up to her in a straightfoward, confident manner is value enough.....in the interaction...u are qualifying her....as u don't care if she doesn't meet ur intentions and interests during the interaction. Ur lower value if u TRY to DHV...but if u don't...thats value in itself...as ur not trying prove that ur valuable. Being comfortable with what u do in life is enough value in itself....not caring if other people don't approve.

Aside from physical attraction, the best way to create value is through rapport. You say rapport is over-rated...LOL I'm sure there are some $2.00 slvts out there who would hook-up with a guy, but they're also likely to be the same girls who will do a line of coke right after.

Ahhh...so what ur saying is some of the most attractive women, whom u only spend 5 minutes without too much rapport in the first approach...and then they're meeting you a couple days later are easy and $2.00 sluts? Ha! Didn't know that. Also...what's wrong with messing around with women who enjoy sex? Might be some guy's cup of tea...if they just want flings. But part of ur viewpoint is the reason many women "TRY TO HIDE" that they love sex...since it gets a bad rep from guys. O

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that Greenlake probably is looking for higher quality women then that.

Like i said, so much rapport isn't necessary in the first approach...as its for when the 2nd meeting is when is truly matters. U can't judge on how a girl is if she could care less about deep rapport....as some don't care about it....rather the spark between you two.

Secondly, where in the world did you get the idea that it takes 30 minutes to do a indirect approach?

Experience and i've seen it. When i first tried indirect....i was literally talking to a girl for atleast 15-20 minutes before i tried to get a number...and she said that she was either not interested or was taken. Wasted time for sure.

If a guy is talking to a girl for 30 minutes on a cold approach he's already lost.

Ever heard of insta dates my friend? But i do agree that if ur spending 30 min on an approach ALONE....its wasting time unless its somewhere where there's no reason to leave....and she already knows ur intention(like if ur on a bus/train/plane...that can be atleast 30 minutes...why would u want to sit somewhere else?)

 

[Agent Zero]

And JWhite's opener "Are you single?" (although I personally don't like it much) is 1000000000000x's better than the opener Greenlake is currently using.
PIMP

PIMP, what are some direct openers you like? I am using "are you single" right now and I'm okay with it, but I wouldn't mind trying something else. I don't do canned indirect though, those have to be spontaneous.

 

[Pimp-sicle]

It is true game...because u don't care if the girl rejects u when u reveal ur intention to her. Thats not only conquering ur fear of approaching and rejection, we are also including the interaction as well.

Having "game" is more than that, its about versatility, being able to adapt to any environment. All the guys who approach and directly reveal their intentions DO NOT have game, they have balls. The guy who effectively learns how to spark a girl's emotional feelings and create attraction on a regular basis has game. There are MANY different methods that can be used to accomplish this, but in the end those guys are the ones who have game.

But they don't know EXACTLY what ur intentions are, they can only assume. Girls can be smart, but not that smart. Like a girl may think "Oh i bet he's going up to me because he likes me..." But then after 2 minutes..."Oh...he's just being friendly"

Obviously you haven't learned how to effectively approach indirectly. And secondly what really sparks attraction in many women is the uncertainity. If you show just the right amount of interest, while still maintaininig the frame of your conversation she will be intrigued. In fact you said it yourself above, when you throw her for a loop, she will be interested and attracted if you did your job right.

Indirect is mostly opinion, question, related openers. So if they're lame, not my fault O

Your showing your lack of knowledge on indirect game if you think they're only opinion and question openers. You can't just try a few indirect openers, and read about it in some e-book, then try to say it doesn't work, it works and it works VERY WELL. But like I said its all based on the situation. There are definitely times when I'm direct and straight to the point, because that's the most effective approach in a situation. Then there are times where I'm indirect because of the situation.

He's tried them and doesn't like them...he's fine with the way he's doing things. If u can't accept it, so what...he's doing what he's doing. He said he wants to use "You're pretty' to help him convey what he truly wants to say in his opener. Don't say its horrible until after Greenlake's journal is done with to where he got NO girls, using that opener.

Greenlake should do whatever he wants to. But he's just starting out in the game. How long did he try indirect approaches for? Not very long if he truly did try. However for him to start a journal of his approaches and get defensive and butt-hurt when we are trying to provide constructive criticism to HELP HIM succeed is just retarded.

And "your pretty" IS and ALWAYS will be horrible a opener. Regardless of his congruency, his confidence or his style. And I'll call it right now, he will not get ANY hot girls using that opener. He might get a few scrubs or uglies using that opener, but 7-9's....forget about it. If he changes his opener, the sky's the limit.

Sorry, but that was a horrible statement right there. I agree that only using "Your pretty" in terms of direct can be limiting, but I have to totally disagree on not using it. I've used "You're pretty" before and the girl lighted up quite a bit...now tell me that its awful now. ;-) Its definitely "How u say it" is what counts that gives its powerful effect. They would rarely work if u say it like a symp...like most guys do. O

Again your rambling and missing the point of my original statment. As an OPENER "your pretty" sucks!!!! You've said you used "your pretty" before and the girl lighted up. She was either already physically attracted to you, which creates value, or you mentioned "your pretty" after opening her up with something else. And again, don't re-hash old e-book stuff to me that's posted all over this site. Everyone knows that the way you say things is incredibly important.

Greenlake is NOT failing, he is going through the trials necessary in the game....u aren't understanding that. You are too result oriented,

Did you really read my previous post before you jumped to reply? I specifically mentioned that everyone struggles in the beginning, before getting better. However in the end results are the barometer that is used to measure success from failure. I'm trying to make you realize that while I LOVE that Greenlake is trying to improve, his current strategy needs some adjustments. A few minor tweaks will make a world of difference.

to the point where im starting to doubt ur credibility....because obviously many of the best weomanizers out there got rejected a hell of a lot at the start and don't as much now. Now tell me that they were failing?

I'm not here to prove myself to you or anyone for that matter. So if you doubt my credibility completely it wouldn't matter. When you read people's posts and replies on this board, you can easily tell which guys get girls and which guys don't.

And your absolutely right, many of the world's best womanizers got rejected a hell of alot in the beginning; Mystery, Swingcat, Jugglar, Style etc. But wanna know a HUGE fundamental difference between them and Greenlake? They adjusted their game and figured out what they were doing wrong and what they needed to improve upon, they were open to suggestions.

Also, u going up to her in a straightfoward, confident manner is value enough

That's absolutely wrong!! All that proves is you have no fear, it doesn't project anything to her other than that. Then when you open with "your pretty" it really goes downhill.

.....in the interaction...u are qualifying her....as u don't care if she doesn't meet ur intentions and interests during the interaction.

I agree with this completely.

Ur lower value if u TRY to DHV...but if u don't...thats value in itself...as ur not trying prove that ur valuable. Being comfortable with what u do in life is enough value in itself....not caring if other people don't approve.

Unforunately that's not how women think. If you don't learn how to effectively create value, quickly you'll strikeout.

Ahhh...so what ur saying is some of the most attractive women, whom u only spend 5 minutes without too much rapport in the first approach...and then they're meeting you a couple days later are easy and $2.00 sluts? Ha! Didn't know that.

Once again your putting your own spin on things. That's not even close to what I was implying. I'm saying the only girls that Greenlake will get without creating value or rapport with his opener are $2.00 slvts that will be a hit and run situation. Meeting him the next day? LOL I doubt those chicks even know where they'll be sleeping that night.

Also...what's wrong with messing around with women who enjoy sex? Might be some guy's cup of tea...if they just want flings.

Nothing wrong with that, but you keep shifting between Greenlake and "some guys." In fact I've been sitting here the whole time telling you that Greenlake will not fuvk one girl with his current opener. But when I said that you said "I was too results oriented" and preeched about conquering approach anxiety.

But part of ur viewpoint is the reason many women "TRY TO HIDE" that they love sex...since it gets a bad rep from guys. O

Again making assumptions, you should consider changing your username to that. Women LOVE sex, infact in my opinion I think they're hornier than guys overall. Indirect game doesn't make girls hide their sexual feelings or intentions when worked correctly.

If you opened your mind up other aspects of the game you might be able to understand what I'm trying to tell you.

Like i said, so much rapport isn't necessary in the first approach...as its for when the 2nd meeting is when is truly matters.

Actually I said that. Go back and read my first or second reply in this whole thread and you'll see that. However creating a certain level of rapport is ESSENTIAL to getting a day 2 with a girl.

U can't judge on how a girl is if she could care less about deep rapport....as some don't care about it....rather the spark between you two.

Do you even know what rapport is?? When a girl says "I felt sparks flying" that's due to rapport!!!! Which led to attraction.

Experience and i've seen it. When i first tried indirect....i was literally talking to a girl for atleast 15-20 minutes before i tried to get a number...and she said that she was either not interested or was taken. Wasted time for sure.

You did it wrong then, you wasted your time by not knowing how to use indirect game correctly.

Ever heard of insta dates my friend? But i do agree that if ur spending 30 min on an approach ALONE....its wasting time unless its somewhere where there's no reason to leave....and she already knows ur intention(like if ur on a bus/train/plane...that can be atleast 30 minutes...why would u want to sit somewhere else?)

Like I said above, many women absolutely LOVE the mystery of everything in the beginning. That's what intrigues them, that's what makes them check their phone every 10 minutes, that's what keeps them ANTICIPATING the guy's next move. I'll definitely agree that there are times when the girl doesn't care at all about that, BUT those would be the $2.00 slvt-bags that are just good for one thing, learn the difference betweent the two in the context of my point.

PIMP

 

[Pimp-sicle]

PIMP, what are some direct openers you like? I am using "are you single" right now and I'm okay with it, but I wouldn't mind trying something else. I don't do canned indirect though, those have to be spontaneous.

Agent: Hey bro, now days I don't use ANY canned sh*t at all!! So regardless of whether its indirect or direct I assess the situation and then approach based off that. I agree, indirect is totally spontaneous.

However the only semi-direct canned opener I use to use a few years ago with really good success was walking up to a girl, stopping her then telling her I noticed her and really wanted to meet her.

Obviously it depends on where you are, when you spot her and the situation your in.

"Hi, I noticed you when you walked through the door and really wanted to meet you."

"Hi, saw you sitting here and I really wanted to meet you."

"Hi, I noticed you when I was at the bar and really wanted to meet you."

Like i said its not completely direct, but its semi-direct and it actually works very well in social settings (parties, bars, clubs) For straight cold approaching I think its best to go indirect. I had a great conversation with a girl a few months ago all because I mentioned the "clacking" sound her high-heels made when she walked. Something as simple as that will get you further than you could imagine.



PIMP