Welcome to My World!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IWillReturnsoon]

Having "game" is more than that, its about versatility, being able to adapt to any environment. All the guys who approach and directly reveal their intentions DO NOT have game, they have balls.

Balls are a part of the game son.

The guy who effectively learns how to spark a girl's emotional feelings and create attraction on a regular basis has game. There are MANY different methods that can be used to accomplish this, but in the end those guys are the ones who have game.

And an upfront, straightforward guy can't?

Obviously you haven't learned how to effectively approach indirectly. And secondly what really sparks attraction in many women is the uncertainity. If you show just the right amount of interest, while still maintaininig the frame of your conversation she will be intrigued. In fact you said it yourself above, when you throw her for a loop, she will be interested and attracted if you did your job right.

If i persisted...sure i could've used it effectively...but i didn't like it and decided to stop it. I just think indirect is not even necessary.

Your showing your lack of knowledge on indirect game if you think they're only opinion and question openers.

Ha. Key word, "Mostly".

You can't just try a few indirect openers, and read about it in some e-book, then try to say it doesn't work, it works and it works VERY WELL.

Yet again i didn't say they didn't work. Where are u getting this? If i said it wastes time...yes...but i never said it didn't work. I even said Indirect usually will get u results faster...but at the same time...has a flaw.

But like I said its all based on the situation. There are definitely times when I'm direct and straight to the point, because that's the most effective approach in a situation. Then there are times where I'm indirect because of the situation.

I agree with this.

Greenlake should do whatever he wants to. But he's just starting out in the game. How long did he try indirect approaches for? Not very long if he truly did try. However for him to start a journal of his approaches and get defensive and butt-hurt when we are trying to provide constructive criticism to HELP HIM succeed is just retarded.

A Constructive criticism would not be telling the person ur failing. Thats actual criticizing. If ur gonnna constructively criticize try doing it in a better way....just outright saying "You're pretty" is a horrible opener...is definitely not constructive...as its been proven to work.

And "your pretty" IS and ALWAYS will be horrible a opener. Regardless of his congruency, his confidence or his style. And I'll call it right now, he will not get ANY hot girls using that opener.

Once again, you got no proof in the future of his progress. Ur just assuming like usual.

He might get a few scrubs or uglies using that opener, but 7-9's....forget about it. If he changes his opener, the sky's the limit.

3rd time, u got no proof of this in the future.

Again your rambling and missing the point of my original statment.

No...i read your point clearly, i just don't agree with it.

As an OPENER "your pretty" sucks!!!! You've said you used "your pretty" before and the girl lighted up. She was either already physically attracted to you, which creates value, or you mentioned "your pretty" after opening her up with something else.

Nope, i used you're pretty at first....and yes, i am a hansome guy...because i took an active effort to look better...many guys can look handsome if they do so. Greenlake is a handsome guy too.

And again, don't re-hash old e-book stuff to me that's posted all over this site. Everyone knows that the way you say things is incredibly important.

How is "how you say it" rehashing? Its a fact of life for god sakes. Suppose u told ur friend, "You suck" in a joking manner...course the words don't mean much....its how u say it. SIMPLE.

Did you really read my previous post before you jumped to reply?

Yes. Like i said, i just aint saying what u want me to say.

I specifically mentioned that everyone struggles in the beginning, before getting better.

So then, if greenlake is doing what the other gurus did, then how is he failing?

However in the end results are the barometer that is used to measure success from failure.

The end hasn't even happened yet...ur still assuming....4th time.

I'm trying to make you realize that while I LOVE that Greenlake is trying to improve, his current strategy needs some adjustments. A few minor tweaks will make a world of difference.

Yes...but he's doing his strategy his own way.

I'm not here to prove myself to you or anyone for that matter. So if you doubt my credibility completely it wouldn't matter. When you read people's posts and replies on this board, you can easily tell which guys get girls and which guys don't.

Since u've explained urself further, i don't doubt ur credibility as much.

And your absolutely right, many of the world's best womanizers got rejected a hell of alot in the beginning; Mystery, Swingcat, Jugglar, Style etc. But wanna know a HUGE fundamental difference between them and Greenlake? They adjusted their game and figured out what they were doing wrong and what they needed to improve upon, they were open to suggestions.

And you think Greenlake hasn't adjusted anything? He's changing his mindset and the way he feels when he's about to approach...thats fine tuning. Just the opener is the same. He's constantly making adjustments, so what if he's getting rejected...doesn't mean he isnt' making any progress. Even if he'd finetune, he'd still get rejected...work on that being congruent.

That's absolutely wrong!! All that proves is you have no fear, it doesn't project anything to her other than that. Then when you open with "your pretty" it really goes downhill.

Its proves more than ur fearless. It proves ur going for what u want, that u find her attractive...etc...

I forgot to mention this, u say ur pretty first...then eventually ur intention

I agree with this completely.

Yes, in debates...there are still things both can see eye to eye on

Unforunately that's not how women think. If you don't learn how to effectively create value, quickly you'll strikeout.

Ur putting them on a pedastal being worried about creating value.

Once again your putting your own spin on things.

Couldn't we say the same thing about u? ;-)

That's not even close to what I was implying. I'm saying the only girls that Greenlake will get without creating value or rapport with his opener are $2.00 slvts that will be a hit and run situation. Meeting him the next day? LOL I doubt those chicks even know where they'll be sleeping that night.

You assume way too much. U should limit it.lol.

Nothing wrong with that, but you keep shifting between Greenlake and "some guys." In fact I've been sitting here the whole time telling you that Greenlake will not fuvk one girl with his current opener.

And i've been telling u, u've got absolutely no proof of this in the future.

But when I said that you said "I was too results oriented" and preeched about conquering approach anxiety.

Conquering approach anxiety is an important thing to Greenlake,

Again making assumptions, you should consider changing your username to that.

You've got the word assumption written all over you, repeatedly saying Greenlake won't bang a girl using that opener.

Women LOVE sex, infact in my opinion I think they're hornier than guys overall.

Absolutely.

If you opened your mind up other aspects of the game you might be able to understand what I'm trying to tell you.

My mind is open...i just don't want to use indirect...doesn't mean im close minded for not doing so.

Actually I said that. Go back and read my first or second reply in this whole thread and you'll see that. However creating a certain level of rapport is ESSENTIAL to getting a day 2 with a girl.

i agree...it is essential, but not 100% a necessity.
.

Do you even know what rapport is?? When a girl says "I felt sparks flying" that's due to rapport!!!! Which led to attraction.

Girls can feel a spark even w/o rapport.

You did it wrong then, you wasted your time by not knowing how to use indirect game correctly.

Yep, mostly because i wasn't too fond of it.

Like I said above, many women absolutely LOVE the mystery of everything in the beginning. That's what intrigues them, that's what makes them check their phone every 10 minutes, that's what keeps them ANTICIPATING the guy's next move. I'll definitely agree that there are times when the girl doesn't care at all about that, BUT those would be the $2.00 slvt-bags that are just good for one thing, learn the difference betweent the two in the context of my point.

I agree with this, but hey...some guys don't care if they're banging sluts if they just want a fling. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Pimp-sicle]

Balls are a part of the game son.

Yes they are, but having one part, doesn't mean you have game.

And an upfront, straightforward guy can't?

They can, but its incredibly limiting. When Greenlake walks up to these girls and says "your pretty," he's making the girl judge him completely on his outer appearance. If she's not physically attracted to him, she's not buying what he's selling. And even when a girl IS physically attracted to a guy who approaches in such a direct manner it forces her to decide too quickly. Greenlake could have an exceptional personality, but he doesn't get to showcase it at all, because he's put all his cards on the table too soon, rushing the girl to make a decision. And I know that girls decide almost instantly whether they would sleep with a guy or not, but when you open with "your pretty" YOU are the one putting her on a pedestal....HIGH HIGH above anyone else.

If i persisted...sure i could've used it effectively...but i didn't like it and decided to stop it. I just think indirect is not even necessary.

That's my point, you didn't use it correctly from the start, therefor you didn't like it. If someone was doing something wrong and not getting any better at it, I doubt that person would enjoy it much either. And again with blanket statements like "indirect is not even necessary," your showing your youth in the game.


Ha. Key word, "Mostly".

Here's your free pass for the day, I'd say its 60/40 in terms of questions/statements.

Yet again i didn't say they didn't work. Where are u getting this? If i said it wastes time...yes...but i never said it didn't work. I even said Indirect usually will get u results faster...but at the same time...has a flaw.

It only has a flaw if you use it when you should be direct or vice-versa. That's one area of game that most guys have to learn to get good at. Assessing the situation and being a quick thinker. Without that, you'll be caught trying to directly seduce a girl who is a lesbian.

I agree with this.

That's a first...

A Constructive criticism would not be telling the person ur failing. Thats actual criticizing. If ur gonnna constructively criticize try doing it in a better way....just outright saying "You're pretty" is a horrible opener...is definitely not constructive...as its been proven to work.

I like how you cut out the rest of that statement. I also mentioned that with a few minor tweaks the sky was the limit, creative editing I see. However I'm a bold, strong personality, I don't like to sugar-coat sh#t because it hides what you really want to say. That's a completely different topic, but I'm real with people. If you can't take handle constructive criticism or rejection for that matter, your studying the wrong art. I think Greenlake and you know that deep down I'm just trying to help but you probably don't want to admit that. "You're pretty" can work on ocassion, just like any opener can. However that's based on the EXISTING physical attraction that already was present before the guy even said a word to the girl. You keep telling me that indirect has its flaws, I don't see them. However THIS is a major flaw of direct game in my opinion, forcing the girl into a rushed decision.

Once again, you got no proof in the future of his progress. Ur just assuming like usual.

I definitely cannot see the future. But based on what's transpired so far, I can tell you with almost complete certainity that Greenlake will go nowhere approaching 7's, 8's and 9's with this current routine. If he adjusts and learns from his mistakes, then I will be excited to read this journal again.

3rd time, u got no proof of this in the future.

I'll patiently wait for him to prove me wrong with this "your pretty" garbage....


No...i read your point clearly, i just don't agree with it.

Fair enough, to each his own.

Nope, i used you're pretty at first....and yes, i am a hansome guy...because i took an active effort to look better...many guys can look handsome if they do so. Greenlake is a handsome guy too.

Ha ha ha. You say "nope I used you're pretty first and I said "the girl was either already physically attracted to you before you said "your pretty" or you said it after the opener." Ummmmm....hello??? Your contradicting yourself here. Making an effort to dress well and take care of yourself is ATTRACTIVE, it doesn't make you handsome. When people refer to a guy as handsome they're usually referring to his god given looks, not the cool shirt he's wearing. When a girl says "that guy has great style and grooms himself well, that's attractive," it doesn't have much to do with his god given looks.

How is "how you say it" rehashing? Its a fact of life for god sakes. Suppose u told ur friend, "You suck" in a joking manner...course the words don't mean much....its how u say it. SIMPLE.

Its "rehashing" because its posted ALL OVER THIS SITE, in the Bible, everywhere you look. Great example, but you wasted 10 seconds of your life "rehashing" what I already know.


CONTINUED

 

[Pimp-sicle]

Yes. Like i said, i just aint saying what u want me to say.

Read it closer then, because your clearly missing many of the points I'm making, that you tend to repeat in your reply for Greenlake.

So then, if greenlake is doing what the other gurus did, then how is he failing?

Hahaha...you seriously crack me up. He's NOT DOING what the other great seducers did. He is sticking with the same canned opener OVER AND OVER again, except for two approaches. Was it a coincidence that when he went away from opening with "your pretty" that it ended up being one of his best approachs? Especially if you guys aren't judging his progress on results...

The end hasn't even happened yet...ur still assuming....4th time.

Last time we heard from Greenlake he was depressed and had a increased level of AA....keep telling yourself that results don't matter right now.


Yes...but he's doing his strategy his own way.

And it is C-L-E-A-R-L-Y not working!!! Not just based on results, but based on his current mindset and making the necessary adjustments. He keeps making the same tactical error over and over and over again.

Since u've explained urself further, i don't doubt ur credibility as much.

Like I said before, I could care less if you or anyone doubts or vouches for my credibility.

And you think Greenlake hasn't adjusted anything? He's changing his mindset and the way he feels when he's about to approach...thats fine tuning. Just the opener is the same. He's constantly making adjustments, so what if he's getting rejected...doesn't mean he isnt' making any progress. Even if he'd finetune, he'd still get rejected...work on that being congruent.

As of right now he's regressed. To say he's constantly making adjustments is a stretch at this point. Your right, getting rejected doesnt mean anything, but its what you LEARN FROM IT that really shows progress. I said this before but I'll say it again. We are emotional creatures, getting positive results triples confidence, getting shot down repeatedly eventually takes its toll on the psyche. Just look at all the posts on the forum from the depressed guys who haven't learned how to effectively approach..

Its proves more than ur fearless. It proves ur going for what u want, that u find her attractive...etc...

Tell me how opening with "your pretty" doesn't put a girl on a pedestal right off the bat? It shows absolutely no value, no creativity and no game. It does show that the guy doesn't care and has balls.

I forgot to mention this, u say ur pretty first...then eventually ur intention

Don't worry I figured that out a right off the bat. However, saying "your pretty" more or less indicates your intention.

Yes, in debates...there are still things both can see eye to eye on

Definitely.

Ur putting them on a pedastal being worried about creating value.

When did I say I worried about creating value? All I said is creating value is paramount to your success, that is not putting a girl on a pedestal, that is learning how to quickly showcase yourself as the prize.

Couldn't we say the same thing about u? ;-)

Actually no, because we have seen NUMEROUS examples from Greenlake's 30 or so approaches that clearly indicate there is a flaw in his approach. And I'm saying if he continues with the same approach, that will not change.

You assume way too much. U should limit it.lol.

Based off personal expierence, not an assumption.

And i've been telling u, u've got absolutely no proof of this in the future.

Please do PM me or WJH when this happens with that opener.

Conquering approach anxiety is an important thing to Greenlake,

As it should be....

You've got the word assumption written all over you, repeatedly saying Greenlake won't bang a girl using that opener.

When there's proof that something is not working, I fail to see how that's an assumption.

Absolutely.

Two agreements in the same post, that's got to be a record.

My mind is open...i just don't want to use indirect...doesn't mean im close minded for not doing so.

Put in equal hours with direct and indirect then compare them. Its evident that you judged indirect too quickly and not to mention that you were using it incorrectly if you were having a 30 minute conversation.

i agree...it is essential, but not 100% a necessity.

Rapport and value ARE essential when first meeting a women. However there are many different things that create value in a women's eyes before the approach ever takes place. Even slvts value something about all the guys they hook up with.

Girls can feel a spark even w/o rapport.

Read above ^^^^^

Yep, mostly because i wasn't too fond of it.

Again, if you gave it a fair shake, you might think differently. Its only to your advantage to add more weapons to your arsenal.

I agree with this, but hey...some guys don't care if they're banging sluts if they just want a fling. Nothing wrong with that

You pretty much repeated what I already said...[/QUOTE]



PIMP

 

[IWillReturnsoon]

Balls are a part of the game son.
Yes they are, but having one part, doesn't mean you have game.
He is gaining the other parts.

And an upfront, straightforward guy can't?
They can, but its incredibly limiting. When Greenlake walks up to these girls and says "your pretty," he's making the girl judge him completely on his outer appearance. If she's not physically attracted to him, she's not buying what he's selling.

Then why even go for a girl who's not buying what you're selling if you're looking your best? You're putting her on a pedastal for TRYING to be what she wants you to sell rather than u sell what u want....if u indeed have looked ur best possible...and being really physically attractive just opens the doorway...it still won't matter as much as time goes on...except if ur very very very confidence....which definitely matters more.


And even when a girl IS physically attracted to a guy who approaches in such a direct manner it forces her to decide too quickly.

Even at indirect, by looking at guy...she's already made that choice if there is ANY possibility that she would want to meet in the future...even if it doesn't appear he's hitting on her...eventho there is the possibility she could change her mind.


Greenlake could have an exceptional personality, but he doesn't get to showcase it at all, because he's put all his cards on the table too soon, rushing the girl to make a decision.

Ur cutting to the chase and not wasting time. She's made the choice already as i've mentioned if there is ANY possible chance that she would want to pursue anything with you...anything else it to reconfirm it or to remove the blocks that are preventing it. Hence why some women, when a guy approaches, appear stuck up but deep down are intrigued by the guy(Pretender)...just that pride is affecting her...and she doesn't want to show her interest as sometimes she'd think she'd be too easy.


And I know that girls decide almost instantly whether they would sleep with a guy or not, but when you open with "your pretty" YOU are the one putting her on a pedestal....HIGH HIGH above anyone else.
You still are not explaining why it puts her on a pedastal...as in reality...when u tell her in a confident manner...u've qualified her looks(Based on what u think is hot/sexy) and ur attitude is, "I Choose you". A woman WANTS to be complimented on how she looks...its why they try so hard to look good and what better way than for them to be reaffirmed of it from an outside source from a guy she's looking good TRYING to impress. Just that too many guys do it to indirectly try to manipulate the girl into liking them(They're not even aware of it). Kind of a conditional thing, "I told u were pretty/beautiful/hot, so like me".

If i persisted...sure i could've used it effectively...but i didn't like it and decided to stop it. I just think indirect is not even necessary.
That's my point, you didn't use it correctly from the start, therefor you didn't like it. If someone was doing something wrong and not getting any better at it, I doubt that person would enjoy it much either. And again with blanket statements like "indirect is not even necessary," your showing your youth in the game.
You're saying as if indirect is NEEDED in game. You don't have any less game for using either/or..heck...even if u used both. I'll admit, i haven't been in the game very very Long...but i've been in there long enough to know better. Some styles work better for other people.
But...No...I did indeed use indirect correctly at different times...just that it felt better to just let the woman know what i thought about her instead....as its truly what i wanted to say....i just so happen to find a better kind of game, imo, that suited me more.
If a guy who studies direct, and doesn't use indirect...succeeds with it...then it was unnecessary for him. A guy doesn't have to need to use indirect at all if he chooses not to. You are sounding as if Indirect MUST be used. Hence, no one HAS to use direct.

Yet again i didn't say they didn't work. Where are u getting this? If i said it wastes time...yes...but i never said it didn't work. I even said Indirect usually will get u results faster...but at the same time...has a flaw.
It only has a flaw if you use it when you should be direct or vice-versa. That's one area of game that most guys have to learn to get good at. Assessing the situation and being a quick thinker. Without that, you'll be caught trying to directly seduce a girl who is a lesbian.
It's flaw is that it could be considered useless...as the girl was attracted to the guy anyways....its like, "What's the point of doing an indirect line...if u can just be simple and do direct? As the girl has made her choice already?"

A Constructive criticism would not be telling the person ur failing. Thats actual criticizing. If ur gonnna constructively criticize try doing it in a better way....just outright saying "You're pretty" is a horrible opener...is definitely not constructive...as its been proven to work.
I like how you cut out the rest of that statement.
I like how i cut it out too ;-). But seriously, which rest of the statement did i cut out? Tell me it and i'll answer that part too.

I also mentioned that with a few minor tweaks the sky was the limit, creative editing I see. However I'm a bold, strong personality, I don't like to sugar-coat sh#t because it hides what you really want to say.

No need to sugar coat at all.

That's a completely different topic, but I'm real with people. If you can't take handle constructive criticism or rejection for that matter, your studying the wrong art.

But ur saying Greenlake is failing eventho he hasn't failed since he's starting out in the game. Thats why i call it actual criticism. Now if he didn't approach...then yes...i would agree...but since he's moving forward...how is he failing? Also...in his journal...didn't u notice he has gotten good responses from using it. Just that the majority are rejections. I see that as succeeding. Some girls will reject you more than other stud guys. Maybe unfair but hey...nothing is fair.

I think Greenlake and you know that deep down I'm just trying to help but you probably don't want to admit that.

No. I know you are trying to help him(Why else would you make suggestions for him)...just that i think part of the help was more on the lines of actual criticism.
"You're pretty" can work on ocassion, just like any opener can.

But didn't u say it's horrible? If it works on occasion...doesn't it mean that it still succeeded? And if it succeeded...how is it horrible? Thats like using any opener that works for you, it works in that occasion.

However that's based on the EXISTING physical attraction that already was present before the guy even said a word to the girl. You keep telling me that indirect has its flaws, I don't see them. However THIS is a major flaw of direct game in my opinion, forcing the girl into a rushed decision.
Physical Attraction = Facial Structure + Body Type? + Clothing Style + Body Language

Of course your not going to see the flaws in it, because it worked for you, just as direct has been working for me...im not gonna think it has its flaws....which most believe its flaw is ur experiencing more rejection...yet i don't even think of that as a flaw....as the woman is doing you a favor.


Once again, you got no proof in the future of his progress. Ur just assuming like usual.

I definitely cannot see the future. But based on what's transpired so far, I can tell you with almost complete certainity that Greenlake will go nowhere approaching 7's, 8's and 9's with this current routine. If he adjusts and learns from his mistakes, then I will be excited to read this journal again.
We'll have to wait and see....but he could've gotten somewhere with a few of the girls, i he just knew how to handle the situation further.


3rd time, u got no proof of this in the future.

I'll patiently wait for him to prove me wrong with this "your pretty" garbage....
Yep...just make sure u do wait...otherwise...u'll had missed it ;-)

No...i read your point clearly, i just don't agree with it.
Fair enough, to each his own
Ditto.


Nope, i used you're pretty at first(Woman had seen me before and didn't give a second glance/yet didn't seem that shy about eye contact)....and yes, i am a hansome guy...because i took an active effort to look better...many guys can look handsome if they do so. Greenlake is a handsome guy too.

Ha ha ha. You say "nope I used you're pretty first and I said "the girl was either already physically attracted to you before you said "your pretty" or you said it after the opener." Ummmmm....hello??? Your contradicting yourself here.

Didn't contradict myself, RATHER didn't go into enough detail and switched off to another topic by accident. Any kind of game you use, the girl is gonna figure if she's Physically attracted to u...even in indirect....ur pretty much saying "Looks are everything in diret" Hell sometimes...a girl can be intrigued by a guy who many not even be as physically attractive as other guys...BUT if he has SUPREME Confidence...it can be a turn on....and like i said in the previous posts....women are intrigued by ballsy guys...hell...a cold approach is a ballsy thing to do....don't tell me when u first approached a girl direct...u didn't see her eyes dialated/looked shocked more so than when indirectly opener her?

 

[IWillReturnsoon]

Making an effort to dress well and take care of yourself is ATTRACTIVE, it doesn't make you handsome.

Tell that to some of the guys out there who never got a second glance at firt, BUT once they got a new look...they got checked out more. Now tell me, only face and body matter? ;-)
A girl will choose a more attractive guy who might be average in the face than just a handsome guy who doesn't have that much of an attractive look. Course it helps to have both.

When people refer to a guy as handsome they're usually referring to his god given looks, not the cool shirt he's wearing.

Yes, but many guys can look more handsome if they get better grooming. You know shave, spike ur hair, etc. And not the shirt only...but all the entire outfit he's wearing.

When a girl says "that guy has great style and grooms himself well, that's attractive," it doesn't have much to do with his god given looks.
You're putting too much emphasis on face and body looks. All that can increase his overall looks when he gets a good clothing style that matches him well. Speaking of experience, when i had dreadlocks and glasses....i was considered average looking...but when i got a haircut, shaved, got tighter fitting shirts....definitely got MUCH better looking....and didn't u say grooming doesn't really increase god given looks? O

How is "how you say it" rehashing? Its a fact of life for god sakes. Suppose u told ur friend, "You suck" in a joking manner...course the words don't mean much....its how u say it. SIMPLE.
Its "rehashing" because its posted ALL OVER THIS SITE, in the Bible, everywhere you look. Great example, but you wasted 10 seconds of your life "rehashing" what I already know.
Then u can consider many of seduction material rehashing...since its repeating alot of the same principles....which the DJ Bible got many things from.

Yes. Like i said, i just aint saying what u want me to say.
Read it closer then, because your clearly missing many of the points I'm making, that you tend to repeat in your reply for Greenlake.
Yes, sometimes its only been necessary for me repeating my statements.

So then, if greenlake is doing what the other gurus did, then how is he failing?

Hahaha...you seriously crack me up. He's NOT DOING what the other great seducers did. He is sticking with the same canned opener OVER AND OVER again, except for two approaches. Was it a coincidence that when he went away from opening with "your pretty" that it ended up being one of his best approachs? Especially if you guys aren't judging his progress on results...
You seem to read my post clearly, he's doing it to remove his approach anxiety...and is using as a guide to help him convey what he wants to say(Telling the girl he finds her physically attractive). Also, it'd be good to use in his arsenal.


The end hasn't even happened yet...ur still assuming....4th time.
Last time we heard from Greenlake he was depressed and had a increased level of AA....keep telling yourself that results don't matter right now.
I said they don't matter as much as ur implying. He has an increased level of AA, because he just took a big rejection head on. Its not easy for a guy who's starting out in one method of the game to take rejection that simple. I Can relate to Greenlake, because I quit the game for a month just from being ignored...as i hadn't handled rejection and always relied on positive responses/results...yet after the month was over...i still continued. Greenlake is doing a good method. Removing his Approach Anxiety and his fear of rejection first. Once he's gotten through those, he won't be afraid to approach...yet....the more calm he appears....the possibility that he won't be as rejected as much.

Yes...but he's doing his strategy his own way.
And it is C-L-E-A-R-L-Y not working!!! Not just based on results, but based on his current mindset and making the necessary adjustments. He keeps making the same tactical error over and over and over again.
With anything you learn in the game, you want some situations to repeat...to figure what could be improved. Its not what Greenlake is saying as much, its the way he's saying it/how he looks when saying it....thats why he's getting alot more rejected...not the line itself.

His #1 necessary adjustment right now is getting over AA....as he's appearing nervous, and not self assured. He is making this adjustment right now, getting through this feeling. Once he takes action despite this fear, he'll be alot less nervous and be able to take rejection...which will show...since he doesn't really have that much to fear anymore, except maybe the extreme situations.


Since u've explained urself further, i don't doubt ur credibility as much.

Like I said before, I could care less if you or anyone doubts or vouches for my credibility.
Likewise, just stating whats in my head.


And you think Greenlake hasn't adjusted anything? He's changing his mindset and the way he feels when he's about to approach...thats fine tuning. Just the opener is the same. He's constantly making adjustments, so what if he's getting rejected...doesn't mean he isnt' making any progress. Even if he'd finetune, he'd still get rejected...work on that being congruent.

As of right now he's regressed. To say he's constantly making adjustments is a stretch at this point. Your right, getting rejected doesnt mean anything, but its what you LEARN FROM IT that really shows progress. I said this before but I'll say it again. We are emotional creatures, getting positive results triples confidence, getting shot down repeatedly eventually takes its toll on the psyche. Just look at all the posts on the forum from the depressed guys who haven't learned how to effectively approach..
Its something you really have to have control of mostly, when ur in the game...not letting ur psyche prevent you from taking action. Also, when you mention...some of those other guys...i dont' think they took a good enough effort to truly figure out what they're doing wrong. They just assumed it was the line they were using. When one gives an active effort, they deeply analyze or have someone else analyze for them. Many of these guys just think its the line.

Its proves more than ur fearless. It proves ur going for what u want, that u find her attractive...etc...

Tell me how opening with "your pretty" doesn't put a girl on a pedestal right off the bat?

You've qualified her looks...i wouldn't call qualifying putting her on a pedastal...its saying, "I think you're pretty and i choose to talk to you"


It shows absolutely no value, no creativity and no game.

Hahahahaha. You are still analyzing it based on just the line only.

It does show that the guy doesn't care and has balls.
Being ballsy is a turn on to women...because most guys aren't ballsy and not upfront about their intentions. Ur over analyzing this.


I forgot to mention this, u say ur pretty first...then eventually ur intention


Don't worry I figured that out a right off the bat. However, saying "your pretty" more or less indicates your intention.
Just how u view her looks wise, not what ur plans are with are...a relationship, a ONS, constant flings, etc.


Yes, in debates...there are still things both can see eye to eye on

Definitely.
Ditto.


Ur putting them on a pedastal being worried about creating value.

When did I say I worried about creating value? All I said is creating value is paramount to your success, that is not putting a girl on a pedestal, that is learning how to quickly showcase yourself as the prize.
You are the prize already, because when u are the prize...u don't have to TRY to have her see it...she'll see it on her own.


Couldn't we say the same thing about u? ;-)

Actually no, because we have seen NUMEROUS examples from Greenlake's 30 or so approaches that clearly indicate there is a flaw in his approach. And I'm saying if he continues with the same approach, that will not change.
Yes, i know of this flaw...its how he appears when he approaches. Once he fixes that, his rejection rate will decrease.


You assume way too much. U should limit it.lol.
Based off personal expierence, not an assumption.
Its just a personal experience, it doesn't apply to anyone else, just you...thats why its assuming.


And i've been telling u, u've got absolutely no proof of this in the future.
Please do PM me or WJH when this happens with that opener.
Oh I will ;-)...but not to WJH...as i have much more respect for you...considering ur making very strong arguments that i do respect...yet might not agree with.

Conquering approach anxiety is an important thing to Greenlake,
As it should be....
Yep.

You've got the word assumption written all over you, repeatedly saying Greenlake won't bang a girl using that opener.
When there's proof that something is not working, I fail to see how that's an assumption.
Because its not the proof in the future. Ur basing that he's failing when he's at a state where rejection is natural....when ur not sure of urself. He's getting there. Just needs to keep that faith in himself.

Absolutely.
Two agreements in the same post, that's got to be a record.
Lets make it a third shall we ;-)

 

[IWillReturnsoon]

My mind is open...i just don't want to use indirect...doesn't mean im close minded for not doing so.
Put in equal hours with direct and indirect then compare them. Its evident that you judged indirect too quickly and not to mention that you were using it incorrectly if you were having a 30 minute conversation.
Anyone who starts out using indirect are most likely make those errors, i wasn't any different.

i agree...it is essential, but not 100% a necessity.
Rapport and value ARE essential when first meeting a women. However there are many different things that create value in a women's eyes before the approach ever takes place. Even slvts value something about all the guys they hook up with.
I agree that since ur explaining it more.

Girls can feel a spark even w/o rapport.
Read above ^^^^^
Did already.

Yep, mostly because i wasn't too fond of it.
Again, if you gave it a fair shake, you might think differently. Its only to your advantage to add more weapons to your arsenal.
I've given it my honest fair shake...i've used indirect just as much as direct....and i've made my choice....i think indirect will be useless to me....as i see no point in it for myself, if i know deep down I WANT the woman to know that i like her phsyically... indirect its something i don't want to do...as im fine with the way im doing things.


I agree with this, but hey...some guys don't care if they're banging sluts if they just want a fling. Nothing wrong with that

You pretty much repeated what I already said...[/QUOTE]
Tell me where i repeated this.

 

[wjh]

And i've been telling u, u've got absolutely no proof of this in the future.
Please do PM me or WJH when this happens with that opener.
Oh I will ;-)...but not to WJH...as i have much more respect for you...considering ur making very strong arguments that i do respect...yet might not agree with.

I have better things to do than to convince you of something you don't want to be convinced of.

 

[tobby]

Everyone's said a lot of important and relevant things on this thread so I'm trying not going to rehash too many people's ideas, but let's go back to the essence of cold-approaching: Progress and Results!!!

Cold-approaching can help people get over AA and other fears, but it's not good for anyone's psyche to get rejected over and over again. (I admit, the initial rejections can help a person learn to deal with failure better, but failing time after time isn't good for anyone, even the best PUAs.).

Let's look at the facts: Greenlake has lost alot of the AA and doesn't really have a fear of making an approach when necessary. Unless he's a KJ, and I don't think he is, Greenlake has shown that he can go after what he wants. The facts now is, whatever approaches he's doing aren't working! If so, he wouldn't get continually rejected by every girl he approaches.

Greenlake needs to change his approach style, take a self-inventory at his appearance, clothes, etc. or do something to make his approaches more successful. Regardless of how we all want to sugar-coat it, we approach girls to find someone to (bang, have a LTR with, or meet/date women that we're attracted to). If we're not getting any of these from cold-approaches then we need to figure out what's wrong or stop doing them.

 

[IWillReturnsoon]

He knows exactly what this is. He has to change the way his body language and voice are. So far, he hasn't quite appeared to be relaxed, having a good vocal projection, and appearing warm...thats been the problem...not the opener itself. Since he has officially gotten through the curse of being able to approach again after taking a huge rejection(This was his most horrid fear)....now he can start working on this....since he doesn't have to fear as much.

Also you guys don't mention that HE HAS gotten good responses in some of the approaches using that line....so i wouldn't say he's been rejected 100% of the time(Hell even during the times the girls didn't seem quite as receptive...he never got rejected outright...as they would've left otherwise...unless they were forced to stay there)....he's been rejected alot...but he has received positive responses...that alone is good enough to keep him going...not necessarily getting a second meeting quite yet.

Greenlake needs to change his approach style

Direct is his approaching style...and needs not to change it.

Take a self-inventory at his appearance, clothes, etc. or do something to make his approaches more successful.

He's got his appearance and look down. No need to change it. It is the way he appears, not what he appears in.

Regardless of how we all want to sugar-coat it, we approach girls to find someone to (bang, have a LTR with, or meet/date women that we're attracted to). If we're not getting any of these from cold-approaches then we need to figure out what's wrong or stop doing them.

As i've said before...he's doing that right now...but first he's getting rid of something thats more important to him, getting through Approach Anxiety.


Here's the steps me and Greenlake have been taking:

Get through the fear of rejection by approaching -> Finetuning the approach -> Interacting -> Close -> Meet up.

He's taking one step at a time and he's still making sure he succeeds in the first step, he's not at the second one...yet too many of u guys are trying to rush him into the next steps...when he hasn't even comfortably finished the first...eventho he's just about there.

 

[IWillReturnsoon]

Everyone's said a lot of important and relevant things on this thread so I'm trying not going to rehash too many people's ideas, but let's go back to the essence of cold-approaching: Progress and Results!!!
Alright, lets.


Cold-approaching can help people get over AA and other fears, but it's not good for anyone's psyche to get rejected over and over again. (I admit, the initial rejections can help a person learn to deal with failure better, but failing time after time isn't good for anyone, even the best PUAs.).

As long as Greenlake has gotten some form of positive responses, which he has, he hasn't failed at all. I def understand what he's going through, i got rejected a **** LOAD...i'm talking a lot at the start...and did it hurt my psyche that much? No...because i deep down accepted that i had to get through the fear of rejection first...once i finished this...i then moved on to the next step, getting feedback of course...which helped.

Let's look at the facts: Greenlake has lost alot of the AA and doesn't really have a fear of making an approach when necessary. Unless he's a KJ, and I don't think he is, Greenlake has shown that he can go after what he wants. The facts now is, whatever approaches he's doing aren't working! If so, he wouldn't get continually rejected by every girl he approaches.

He still at the stage of getting through his AA right now...eventho he approaches...its that reason he's getting nervous...that fear of rejection. Just because he's been approaching doesn't mean he's over most of that fear...he's still has it big. You guys are trying to fast forward his pace, he's not looking at the huge picture quite yet...he knows what he needs to do to get there...but right now...he knows he's got to get through his fear of rejection FIRSTLY...hence why he's nervous and got recent AA...the fear of rejection.

You guys are trying to define what progress is to greenlake, instead of him choosing what progress is for himself.

 

[IWillReturnsoon]

I'm bumping this, because I think Greenlake deserves more support than this....eventho he hasn't posted as of late.

 

[IWillReturnsoon]

I have to bump this as Greenlake should be getting a bit more support than he's getting.

 

[greenlake]

Greenlake Strikes Back.

Alright guys, finally i'm back after taking harsh critcism by that girl. Took me nearly a month to be able to approach girls comfortably again. But i think that's a good thing because I've become stronger. It was really hard, but there is no way I will give up. The first approach that set me back on path was yesterday. I was chilling with my friend in the student lounge and this asian girl with big tits came in. I noticed that she was looking at me which was a normal thing btw. I told my friend I would approach her. 1 hour later.......I'm still standing there, I was paralyze. But she was still there, sewing a hat(wierd hahah but cool) so that's a good thing. My friend left, so that only leave me by myself. Finally I got the gutz to walked up to her and I wasn't looking ahead either. I stopped in front of her, she had her headphones on and hurriedly took it off and look at me.
greenlake: What are you making?
asian: oh, I'm making a hat.
greenlake: I wanna learn.
asian: Really?!?!
greenlake: Yea, show me how.
I walked to the chair next to her and sat down. She then shw me how....kinda confusing to learn. She ask me a lot of questions about me and we talk for 2 hours. She told me she is waiting for her boyfriend. I met her boyfriend, kool guy. We chat for a bit. She told me she want me to join the dancing club at USF. I gave her my number and she/bf will pick me up on Wednesday.

It was dark....around 8pm. So I decided to chill a bit at the computer before i leave. I saw this pretty blonde girl walked passed so I got up and ran up to her. She was pretty far so i just yelled out "Excuse me!!" She looked back and stopped. I walked up to her....
greenlake: You're pretty.
girl: Thanks.......Do you know where the vending machine is?!?! (LMAO WTF??)
greenlake: Yea, follow me.
*while walking....*
greenlake: What's your name?
girl: Danielle *giggle*
greenlake: i'm Ha
*we shake hand.*
greenlake: Are you looking for drinks or food?
girl: food.
greenlake: hmmm....
girl: oh, i see it.
greenlakE: Okay
girl: Thanks.
greenlake: nice meeting you.
GRRRR PERSIST!

Today
Today was the day I can see my improvement clearly.
- The first one was at the copy room, she was with 2 other girl friends of her. I saw her and told my friend I will go in. He told me he will come......just to act like he's stapling. WTF?!?! I told her she's pretty. She says thanks, i asked for her name and then told her my name. We shake hands and I ejected.
PERSIST!

-The next one was walking in front of me. I like what I see.....a slim body with some cute booty. GRRR She was walking fast. So after we gotin the building. I say "Excuse me!" She look back. I walked up to her and told her she's pretty. She thanks me and was looking for her class which was in front of us. So she walked in.....that it.

- I saw my friend after class and he wanted me to walk him to the car. While walking, I saw two girls. A blonde(target) and a brunette. I told my friend to be my wing but he refused. So I went in by myself. I walked up to them...
greenlake: Hey!
*brunette and blonde look at me. The brunette thought I was talking to her and about to say something.*
greenlake: No, not you. I meant her.
*The brunette steps aside. hahah*
greenlake: I saw you there and just want to come up to meet you.
*smile:
blonde: oh.
greenlake: What's your name?
blonde: Kaly.
greenlake: My name is Ha. Nice to meet you.
*we shake hands.*
greenlake: tell me a lil bit about you.
blonde: Hmmm...I dunno.
*we got to her friend's car*
*I forgot what I say, but I ejected. I walked back tt campus. I heard a honk....and guess who that was? Yup...the blonde and her friend. We waved goodbye.*

- The next one was a few hours later. I was walking with another friend of mine. I saw two girls walking in front of me. I told him I'm gonna approach them.. He say yea, go ahead.. So I walked up to them. I stopped the blonde one who was walking the brunette.
greenlake: Hey, I saw you and I got to meet you.
blonde: oh, hey.
*the brunette was standing there giggling.*
greenlake: What's your name?
blonde; Kelly.
*I looked at her friend.*
greenlake: What about you?
bru: Kathy
greenlake: Tell me about you Kelly.
blonde: I'm going for nursing.
greenlake: Oh, is this your first year?
blonde: Yea.
greenlake: Btw, how your guys konw eachother?
blonde: We knew eachother from school for two years.
greenlake: Where are you guys going?
blonde: WE gonna go meet up with someone for diner.
greenlake: Am Iinvited?
blonde: *giggle* yea, if you wanna come.
greenlake: Thanks.
WE departed..... should have got her number!!!

Okay guys, i'm tired. More will come tomorrow.

 

[Mr_Aries]

Hey dude, pretty inspiring story. It sounds like you've come a hell of a long way since you were in high school. The majority of people like you at high school never have the balls to attempt the change you did. Well done!

BTW I like reading your FRs. keep em up

 

[greenlake]

Mr Aries- thanks. You don't know how much it motivate me to get positive comment from you guys.

 

[greenlake]

Yeah Baby!

Today was probably the best day of my life. Not because I got a number close....oops, did I let out the secret? Hahah. Btw, this is the first time I feel like a man, first times I feel like I HAVE BALLS. The power of Direct is strong. One month of being paralyzed to approach girls or even people in general made me felt so useless.....like how the 18 years of my life was. Maybe I should really thanks that girl for cussing at my face. She really did me a favor. I'm like a Sayain getting 100 times stronger after being severely wounded. FINALLY, I know the path to happiness and success.......that is brighten up the girl's day and to never give up on your goal. Well....let me get to the story.

"I Got a BF?'
I kinda got a little approach anxiety when I got to school. By little, I really meant it. But I did it anyway. All it takes was one approach and I will be on a approaching spree. We had a "welcome back" event at our community college today. So that means more hot girls at one spot. I walked around the school hesitating a bit. I missed one or two girls until....I saw a white girl sitting on the bench by herself. I walked passed her at first. Then I came back and walked up to her.
greenlake: Hi, I saw you and I just wanna meet you.
girl: Hi....hmm...well...I got a boyfriend.
*I sat down*
greenlake: Well, that's okay. Even tho i'm a lil heart broken.
*She giggles*
greenlake: What's your name?
girl: Courtney, you?
greenlake: I'm Ha. Nice to meet you.....I odn't think you can shake your hand with a hotdog and a book in your hand.
girl: hahah yeah.
greenlake: So tell me a lil bit about you.
girl: Hmm...I dunno.
greenlake: Let me tell you about me then.
girl: Okay.
greenlake: hmmm......****, I dunno what ot tell you either.
*She laugh*
greenlake: What's over there?
girl: Oh, they have an event. They give out free foods and games. Pretty kool.
* I saw that she packing up her stuffs.*
greenlake: You have to go to class?
girl: yea, it startes at 12:30. Do you have a class?
greenlake: yea, I got anatomy 2.
girl: is it hard?
greenlake: Well...I like theteacher, so it depends. The first one was hard. I got a C in it.
girl: I planned to take it.
greenlake: Well...it was nice talking to you.
girl: Yea you too.
greenlake: Bye.
girl: bye.

I walked around for a bit and decided to sit down instead. I missed a few good one. I saw a sexy brunette with short shorts and tight shirt. I got up and tried to catch up with her.
greenlake: Excuse me!
*She turns around.
greenlake: You're pretty.
girl: Thanks.
*She started walking again.*
greenlake: You're leaving?
girl: yea.
greenlake: Stay here. I wanna get to know you.
girl: Sorry, I got a bf.
greenlake: okay.

I turned around and saw my friend 30 feet away. So I went up to him and we chat for a min. He decided to walk around with me. While walking, I saw a white girl on the phone. I stopped her and she looks at me. I told her "you're pretty." She blush and giggle. But I just stopped from there....I dunno why, don't ASK ME WHY!

"HOllister BABY!"
We got into a building and I saw a pretty brunette with curly hair. She dressed in Hollister. I planned to approached her a few days ago but my AA was there. But this time...NO WAY! She was walking in front of me and I had to catch up to her. Geehz...why girls walk so fast. I touched her. She didn't turn around....uh oh! Well, I was touching her backpack strap. DOH! But finally I got her attention. She looks at me....
greenlake: Excuse me. But I got something top secret I need to tell you.
*She smiles*
girl: Yea?
*I lean into her ear and whisper "You're really pretty.*
girl: Aww THank you.
greenlake: What is your name?
girl: Allan, how about you?
greenlake: i'm Ha.
greenlake: So tell me about you.
girl: This is going to be my last semester here. i'm going ot USF next semester.
greenlake: Really? how old are you?
girl: i'm 21.
greenlake: Wow, I'm 19 and I look older than you tho.
girl: Yea, I get that a lot.
greenlake: I really like your clothing style.
girl: Thanks.
greenlake: Do you have to leave somewhere?
girl: yea.
greenlake: Okay, it was nice meeting you.
* She smile and wave*
girl: Yea, you too. bye!

I got class to go after this.......I kinda have AA again after class. But it wasn't long either. I saw this girl who gave me a lot of e/c last semester. She was walking behind. I opened the door and hold it for her. She thanks me. ......."Hey" I said. She stopped and turned around. UH oh! I then say "You're pretty." She smiles and say thanks.

I kinda missed a few chances after that. I went to the library. I saw a pretty sexy girl. But I haven't see her face yet. So I just sat next to her with 20 people sitting around me playing the computer. It took me a while to talk to her. I say "Hey" she looks at me and smile. I don't like what I see. So I just say "What's your name?" She told me Janine. "I'm Ha, nice to meet you." and I left.

I went home and chilled a bit before going to work. I promised the Asian girl I would go to the dancing club with her at USF but I had to work. Good thing she didn't call or maybe she did but the store I work at have bad signal. Well, let get back to the story, will we? I got to the mall and saw a pretty girl walked into Fossil. I followed her and touched her on the arm with me behind her cause she was looking at some watches. She looks around and saw me.
greenlake: Hi
girl: Hi.
greenlake: You're pretty. What's your name?
girl: Awww....sorry, I got a boyfriend.
greenlake: Oh okay. Nice meeting you.
girl: You too.

ASIAN SENSATION! WOO!
This was an hour or 2 into work. I was putting clothes on the table and saw a pretty asian girl....really pretty. I walked up to her and lightly touch her right arm. She looks at me, she thought I just want to get through but I stayed there...
greenlake: Hi, you're really pretty.
*She smiles and blushes*
girl: Thank you.
greenlake: What's your name?
girl: (**** I forgot her name.) You?
greenlake: Ha
girl: Han?
* she lean in closer*
greenlake: No, Ha.
girl: Oh okay.
* I noticed her friend was behind her giggling. hahahah. ****blocking just doesn't happen often with direct.*
girl: Do you go to school here?
greenlake: Yea.
girl: Really? which one?
greenlake: Hcc. you?
girl: USF.
greenlake: Oh, I got a few friends there.
greenlake: So tell me a bit aobut you.
girl: I just omved down here.
greenlake. Really. from where?
girl: Jacksonvile.
greenlake: oh.....well, i'm working right now. But I would like to like to hang out with you sometimes.
* I stepped back and she stepped forward. I noticed she was playing with her hair. Hahah this is the first time I cansee IOI this clearly.*
girl: hmmm...I can give you my phone number.
(PAPER! PAPER! PAPER! GOSH! NO PAPER!)
greenlake: I can't take out my phone now. How aobut I give you my number instead.
girl: Sure!
*I told her my number*
greenlake: Call me when you miss me.
We say bye to eachother. I walked away with a smile on my face. This is the second time I felt this happy. The first time was with the gym girl.

Well guys....that's it for today. Tomorrow will be a new day. Wish me luck.

 

[Credos]

Good job greenlake, you're doing great, keep up the good work and you'll just keep improving. I'm reallly glad that you're posting and haven't given up!

 

[Analytic]

Awsome! your game definally improved. You didn't let the bf line effect you and you qualify them. This inspire me to go out and approuch.

 

[Microphone Fiend]

nice... I liked the first approach of the last post. Seemed to flow nicely even though you didnt say much. Nice to see someone approaching again.. things went quiet for a bit. Good luck man

 

[greenlake]

Thanks guys. Sometimes I'm really lazy to update but reading your comments really helps me get through it.