If you're in a social circle, and the women there don't give you a hug when they leave, it's OVER

[Divorced w 3]

This has nothing to do with height or physical characteristics. They think you’re awkward and creepy. I’m sorry I have to put it so gently.

 

[LTG71]

Depends on the chic and how they are feeling, the phase of the moon and the weather. Some give hugs like that and some don’t. Used to work with one that would make eye contact and start raising her arms as she walked towards you. Few others that openly said they hated hugs and some that even kissed your cheek. They are irrational and it depends on the moment. One used to say she hated photos yet there are plenty of selfies with her and her boyfriend’s buddy on Facebook. Read the room and don’t take it personal.

 

[SW15]

Hugs don't necessarily mean anything.

They mean next to nothing. The only thing that shows is that you're not a complete social reject.

In a social circle, it's important to see that the circle tries to help you with introductions to women to help you form longer term relationships. That didn't happen in the primary social circle in my city.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I'm in a social circle - international folks in an Eastern-European folks (yes, far too much sausage, but it is what it is ). So there was a semi-harridan chick (definitely bangable) that I had talked to earlier, and we talked, with a few others around. Then this little agglomeration of people just kind of moved on to other agglomerations. This chick was talking with some taller, Chaddish men, and when it came time that she was leaving, every one of those guys got a hug, while she seemed to avoid me, so as to not have to give me a hug.

She saw you tense up in preparation for hugging her as she was hugging these other men and she realised you would misinterpret a social hug for an intimate hug, and she didn't want to go into sending the wrong signals, so she preferred to just skip hugging you.

 

[jhonny9546]

she realised you would misinterpret a social hug for an intimate hug

Do all women have this innate quality?

By the way, this happened to me as well, but in reverse: I would not initiate hugs with women I spoke to or met that same day. Instead, they would come to me and give a cheek kiss, rather than a hug.

I've also noticed that after I engaged in some self-improvement, new people (especially women) tend to be open to me initiating the cheek kiss. They are more likely to do this if I don't approach them first before leaving. Conversely, women I knew before my self-improvement seem tense and do not cheek kiss me anymore like before.

I think they may have had some attraction to me back then, but for some reason, they ended up with someone more alpha. Now they might be reconsidering their choices since their current relationships may be boring. Women often seem to be dissatisfied with their current situations.

To me, there is no reason for them not to come up to me and give me a cheek kiss anymore. This is a clear IOI also because the signals they send me after my self-improvement are different from before.
They're interested.


A way to tell if a women is interested in the first instance, within the social circle scenario, is that she will start to do a thing in this list:
- touch you
- frequently try to talk to you
- frequently try to be near you
- frequently put her body in front of you, on in your direction
- frequent side glances

The rest it's up to you

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Do all women have this innate quality?

No, but the ones who do not are rare.

It's not difficult to detect when a guy is in the throes of unsated lust.

 

[GoodMan32]

Yeah that’s exactly what I’m getting at.

My female friend either doesn’t hug me at all, or it’s an angled pat on the back one (FZ hug).

Back when I took dance classes, there was one lady who would give me very firm hugs as a greeting and practically jammed her boobs into me. It was such a strong IOI but it went over my head at the time lol.

The dance teacher (understandably) would greet me with the FZ hug.

Ehh, don't slap yourself over missing a possible IOI. A lot of men (myself included) don't want to make fools of ourselves by letting a woman know we think she's into us (but then have it turn out she's not into us)

On the topic of hugs, I have a female coworker who really had a rough year. So I gave her a birthday gift for her birthday back in August. After I gave her the gift, she then asked if she could hug me (I gave her permission). Her hug wasn't an angled friend zone hug...but wasn't quite a boob-jamming hug either (something in between).

In all honesty, I anticipated she'd hug me if I gave her a gift (which is one reason I gave her the gift)

This same female coworker has told me I have a nice smile before.

 

[GoodMan32]

No, she is married, and this is all being done in the same room where both my mother and father are present and they don't want us doing those things with each other. Also when we last hugged each other, they did a site inspection in the house and that ruffled some feathers with us here. One time later I did offer her a hug when she complained she was groped by another caregiving client and felt violated and didn't want to see him again.. For the moment, we are chit-chatting, and my folks are happy for me that we are talking to each other and it's normally upbeat. It's enough to register for the 2 day reset (ie I allow myself to watch ASMR videos and certain music videos if 2 days have passed without a decent interaction with a woman). I'm currently having high quality interactions with two different women and possibly a third one that comes off and on. However, I'm just focused on the 2 day rule for those interactions, it's more of a regulatory thing in terms fo the ASMR videos..it's like I don't want to watch them unless I feel I need to and established that rule to establish a strong enough need.

Like I said, my life, like yours, but probably worst comparitivly in terms of circumstances, does not lend itself to meeting or attracting SINGLE and AVAILABLE women anywhere. Interactions help as its better than nothing and things can bud and develop from interactions....I'll keep a note of that when that is happening.

Agreed, your circumstances are even worse than mine (which is saying a lot)

 

[GoodMan32]

They mean next to nothing. The only thing that shows is that you're not a complete social reject.

In a social circle, it's important to see that the circle tries to help you with introductions to women to help you form longer term relationships. That didn't happen in the primary social circle in my city.

On that note (social circle helping you), my social circle in college was of no help. I even remember one guy from my college clique telling me I'd like sex if I gave it a try (I was 18, freshman, hadn't had sex yet...but I had never mentioned my v-card status to any of my college friends). So I asked him "What makes you so sure I haven't tried sex?" He said no self-respecting girl would have sex with me.

I guess that shows what my social circle thought of me in the lady department.

 

[corrector]

Ehh, don't slap yourself over missing a possible IOI. A lot of men (myself included) don't want to make fools of ourselves by letting a woman know we think she's into us (but then have it turn out she's not into us)

On the topic of hugs, I have a female coworker who really had a rough year. So I gave her a birthday gift for her birthday back in August. After I gave her the gift, she then asked if she could hug me (I gave her permission). Her hug wasn't an angled friend zone hug...but wasn't quite a boob-jamming hug either (something in between).

In all honesty, I anticipated she'd hug me if I gave her a gift (which is one reason I gave her the gift)

This same female coworker has told me I have a nice smile before.

This is an important thing then. The idea posited by @SW15 that this is "next to nothing", and what you said earlier, that it does not "mean anything" is not really true. If it really did not mean anything, or "next to nothing" is you would never have given her a gift in order to receive a hug (ie which some might say is a little "simpish" since she should be attracted to your raw masculine energy and hug you without having to give her a gift, etc...) Even if you take the idea that you are not a complete "social reject" or "too repulsive to hug anyone", that's a big deal.

 

[GoodMan32]

This is an important thing then. The idea posited by @SW15 that this is "next to nothing", and what you said earlier, that it does not "mean anything" is not really true. If it really did not mean anything, or "next to nothing" is you would never have given her a gift in order to receive a hug (ie which some might say is a little "simpish" since she should be attracted to your raw masculine energy and hug you without having to give her a gift, etc...) Even if you take the idea that you are not a complete "social reject" or "too repulsive to hug anyone", that's a big deal.

There's truth to both what you're saying and what @SW15 said.

Hugging, by itself, doesn't mean much in terms of interest (but it can at least mean you aren't totally repulsive)

Since it's work, she's not going to hug me just because. I deliberately created an event that would lead to her hugging me.

 

[MatureDJ]

way to tell if a women is interested in the first instance, within the social circle scenario, is that she will start to do a thing in this list:
- touch you
- frequently try to talk to you
- frequently try to be near you
- frequently put her body in front of you, on in your direction
- frequent side glances

The rest it's up to you

A sure-fire way is when her teats somehow manage to poke into you; this does not happen by accident.

 

[MatureDJ]

He said no self-respecting girl would have sex with me.

I guess that shows what my social circle thought of me in the lady department.

The only reason that social circle kept you around is that they saw you as the jester - IOW, you jogged them.

Jestermaxx

Jestermaxx or jestermaxxing is a term used in the incel community, most commonly to denote a man acting in an entertaining, amusing, histrionic or dramatic manner...

incels.wiki

 

[MatureDJ]

What was the quality of the hug? Was it like a brief type of hug, or was it like a more "deeper" type of hug? I'm assuming it was a deep hug, where she's throwing her body to the guys and it's like a semi-fondling/hug thing? Is that what got you triggered?

They were good solid hugs, but it didn't seem playful. I got triggered because when it came time for my hug, all I got a hand-wave "bye".

 

[GoodMan32]

The only reason that social circle kept you around is that they saw you as the jester - IOW, you jogged them.

Jestermaxx

Jestermaxx or jestermaxxing is a term used in the incel community, most commonly to denote a man acting in an entertaining, amusing, histrionic or dramatic manner...

incels.wiki

After reading the source you shared about jestermaxxing, I wouldn't be so sure they only kept me because they viewed me as the jester.

Isn't it possible the clique enjoyed my company as a friend (but the one guy I mentioned was merely making a brutally honest comment about my bad luck in the lady department; even though I hadn't told him I was a virgin, I suppose it's a pretty safe guess a socially awkward 18 year old is a virgin)?

One of the 6 male members of our clique acted retarded to get a rise out of people (I know it's taboo to use the word retarded...but that's seriously how he acted). If anything, the guy who acted retarded was the jester IMO.

 

[MatureDJ]

I've mentioned on this forum that I was in a sausage-heavy clique my freshman year of college (6 sausages, 2 clams)

The 2 clams would hug me. Yet they never dated me or gave me sex. One of the clams gave sex to 2 different sausages in our clique (and the other clam, adamant about remaining a virgin until marriage, at least dated 2 of the sausages in our clique)

My point? Hugs don't necessarily mean anything.

The point is that in general, being worthy enough to get a hug is a necessary (but not sufficient) condition to intimacy. At the very least, if a chick hugs Adam but not Bob, it can be deduced that Bob will not get intimacy, whereas Adam might. Of course, this only applied to a particular point in time - obviously if it has been a while that the chick is not attracting attention from Adam, she might recalibrate her pickiness and start hugging Bob.

I've somewhat seen this in a long-standing loose social circle, when I see a chick for the first time in many years, she always seems to be friendlier, like she is trying to say that, "my prospects are dimming, and while you were never my sexual fantasy back then, I need to get something now before I really degrade, and I might give you a chance this time". However, as many folks here know about me, I have a LONG memory.

 

[corrector]

Since it's work, she's not going to hug me just because. I deliberately created an event that would lead to her hugging me.

There was this "gay" guy at my work that was hugging up different ladies at the office and he liked playing with their hair. The women were either receptive to him, or were initiating hugs themselves with him. No event or occasion.

Well, I'm not sure if we can compare the behaviour of gay guys and straight women to straight guys and straight women....but then again, when I conveyed this story with another lady co-worker, she had her doubts as to whether he was really gay since that does not sound right when I described that to her.

That being said, the point is, you created an event to get a hug from a lady at the office, because it was important with you to get a hug from that lady. That means, hugs are important as an experience for you, and for guys in general.

To say that it means you are not repulsive, is not really the whole story. Would you honestly have gone through all that trouble, to get a gift, to create an event, to prove to yourself and the world you are not too repulsive to get a hug as a thank-you gesture for giving a lady at your office a gift? It's not that, it's you wanted a nicer connection with her and hugging is a wierd spot of having this feeling of intimacy with a woman, validation, and social acceptance with her and the peers around. So it was meaningful enough for you to have gone out of your way to set something up where you might get it. Almost sounds like someone seducing someone for a lay if you look at it (ie setting up events and timing in such a way a woman would want you), except you wanted a hug instead.

Do you feel she showed you interest with this hug and secretly likes you, and now has expressed that with a hug?

 

[GoodMan32]

There was this "gay" guy at my work that was hugging up different ladies at the office and he liked playing with their hair. The women were either receptive to him, or were initiating hugs themselves with him. No event or occasion.

Well, I'm not sure if we can compare the behaviour of gay guys and straight women to straight guys and straight women....but then again, when I conveyed this story with another lady co-worker, she had her doubts as to whether he was really gay since that does not sound right when I described that to her.

That being said, the point is, you created an event to get a hug from a lady at the office, because it was important with you to get a hug from that lady. That means, hugs are important as an experience for you, and for guys in general.

To say that it means you are not repulsive, is not really the whole story. Would you honestly have gone through all that trouble, to get a gift, to create an event, to prove to yourself and the world you are not too repulsive to get a hug as a thank-you gesture for giving a lady at your office a gift? It's not that, it's you wanted a nicer connection with her and hugging is a wierd spot of having this feeling of intimacy with a woman, validation, and social acceptance with her and the peers around. So it was meaningful enough for you to have gone out of your way to set something up where you might get it. Almost sounds like someone seducing someone for a lay if you look at it (ie setting up events and timing in such a way a woman would want you), except you wanted a hug instead.

Do you feel she showed you interest with this hug and secretly likes you, and now has expressed that with a hug?

I'm skeptical too of whether the alleged gay man at your work really is gay.

Ok, you're right, I did what I did for the better connection (because in the current stage of life I'm in, it's rare for me to get any sort of unpaid intimacy)

It's totally possible the female coworker secretly likes me (since she's commented on my nice smile before...and now the birthday hug). I'd take sex from her if offered.

 

[Divorced w 3]

I am sorry you guys are dealing with this problem. I mean this sincerely, this depth of analysis on your micro social dynamics must be difficult to have to deal with. I would almost eject for a year or more … keep contact on social , and then work a strategy out to come back a different guy, that way you don’t lose the social group that will possibly help on life but you can work on your social skills

 

[corrector]

I am sorry you guys are dealing with this problem. I mean this sincerely, this depth of analysis on your micro social dynamics must be difficult to have to deal with. I would almost eject for a year or more … keep contact on social , and then work a strategy out to come back a different guy, that way you don’t lose the social group that will possibly help on life but you can work on your social skills

Eject for a year or more? You mean you would quit your job over that? You would leave a social group if a lady refused to hig you?