If you're in a social circle, and the women there don't give you a hug when they leave, it's OVER

[GoodMan32]

You see, that is what I am talking about.

Still nothing compared to the IOI @Hamurabimbi has gotten from broads he's worked with (he's gotten a BJ in a company vehicle, he's had a female coworker jump onto his desk and ask him if he needs a sexcretary, etc)

 

[corrector]

Still nothing compared to the IOI @Hamurabimbi has gotten from broads he's worked with (he's gotten a BJ in a company vehicle, he's had a female coworker jump onto his desk and ask him if he needs a sexcretary, etc)

Those aren't IOIs if they are actually sexual. That means the woman is initiating sexually.

IOIs are more social in nature with a hint there could be something more. Therefore your hug is a great IOI. Especially if you are looking for a great girl to be with (ie that will treat you right and give you great sex, etc...) rather than some skank hoe. IOIs are more of a green light to make some sort of move or test the boundaries. If I am personally expecting a woman to initiate sexually, I'd dress myself as best as I can and visit an escort, because I know that won't happen in real life like that. I know I'm not Chad/Chadlite tier and don't have an expectation that any women will initiate sexually.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I have reviewed the posts from the beginning of the thread to find your "other" commentors. I've only seen one poster that has that view (ie SW15). I don't know what AA is saying since we are ordered by the mods to keep each other on ignore or we would get banned, so I don't know or can't know.

Therefore, in my view, only one other poster has that opinion.

To the other posters on this thread where I have made a case, we have concluded that hugs are significant if they are full-body hugs and not FZ-hugs.



As these were full-body hugs and not FZ hugs, then it is not a minor issue, as is now the concensus direction of this thread. In the specific social situation where he was the only guy left out, he was not treated like a high-value or even social equal by being rejected for a hug compared to the other guys who were there. Therefore, that group has become toxic to him and that is a major issue.

Not really. I did a tally, please see below:

Hugs Are Important

• OP and you: Think hugs are significant.

Hugs Are Not Important

• GoodMan32, SW15, myself: Say hugs are insignificant.

OP Didn't Get a Hug Because of Him

• Divorced w 3: said he did not get a hug because he was perceived as creepy.
• AA: said he did not get a hug because he felt he would misinterpret it socially.
• Vanderdonck: Mentioned women hug based on emotional and physical traits, suggesting it relates to OP's situation.

OP Didn't Get a Hug Because of the Women or His Friends

• N/A

Unclear/Not Read

• LTG71: Mentioned individual comfort levels for hugging people and context.
• Mike32ct: Described types of hugs but didn't clearly address OP's situation.
• jhonny9546: Didn’t read, so no input.
• Gambino: He doesn't care about hugs. He prefers when women go down on him

In conclusion, there's a tie between the views that hugs don't hold significance and should be disregard it, and that OP's actions prevented him from receiving one. These are actions of a high-value man. As I mentioned in my previous post, which you overlooked, it seems that OP tends to put women on a pedestal and likely invests more effort than they do—actions that a high-value man does not take.

 

[corrector]

Not really. I did a tally, please see below:

Hugs Are Important

• OP and you: Think hugs are significant.

Hugs Are Not Important

• GoodMan32, SW15, myself: Say hugs are insignificant.

OP Didn't Get a Hug Because of Him

• Divorced w 3: said he did not get a hug because he was perceived as creepy.
• AA: said he did not get a hug because he felt he would misinterpret it socially.
• Vanderdonck: Mentioned women hug based on emotional and physical traits, suggesting it relates to OP's situation.

OP Didn't Get a Hug Because of the Women or His Friends

• N/A

Unclear/Not Read

• LTG71: Mentioned individual comfort levels for hugging people and context.
• Mike32ct: Described types of hugs but didn't clearly address OP's situation.
• jhonny9546: Didn’t read, so no input.
• Gambino: He doesn't care about hugs. He prefers when women go down on him

In conclusion, there's a tie between the views that hugs don't hold significance and should be disregard it, and that OP's actions prevented him from receiving one. These are actions of a high-value man. As I mentioned in my previous post, which you overlooked, it seems that OP tends to put women on a pedestal and likely invests more effort than they do—actions that a high-value man does not take.

Let me break the tie then. You mentioned @GoodMan32 as saying hugs are insignficant. Yet he posted if it is a "boom-jamming" hug, or if it's a semi-fondling type of hug where lady lets him grope her, then it is significiant with him. The fact that the type of hug is being distinguished is very relevant to this discussion, which you are missing. @Mike32ct is adressing the type of hug before @MatureDJ clarified what type of hug the other guys received, so he could not have addressed the the OP question without some more information.
Now that we know the type of hug @MatureDJ is talking about (ie, not a FZ hug, a bit more than that as it was around the waist), then according to @Mike32ct post, it is a signficiant hug event. That tips it two in favour of hugs being significant (ie if it's an erotic/boob-jamming/romantic) hug.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Let me break the tie then. You mentioned @GoodMan32 as saying hugs are insignficant. Yet he posted if it is a "boom-jamming" hug, or if it's a semi-fondling type of hug where lady lets him grope her, then it is significiant with him. The fact that the type of hug is being distinguished is very relevant to this discussion, which you are missing. @Mike32ct is adressing the type of hug before @MatureDJ clarified what type of hug the other guys received, so he could not have addressed the the OP question without some more information.
Now that we know the type of hug @MatureDJ is talking about (ie, not a FZ hug, a bit more than that as it was around the waist), then according to @Mike32ct post, it is a signficiant hug event. That tips it two in favour of hugs being significant (ie if it's an erotic/boob-jamming/romantic) hug.

Look man, I understand your points about different hug types, but I still believe the overall consensus leans toward hugs being insignificant in this context. While you and your friends may view certain hugs as meaningful, the discussion suggests that OP’s behavior indicates a reliance on female validation, which doesn't align with the traits of a high-value man. If OP was truly high-value, hugs would be irrelevant, this scenario would be dismissed, and he would have more options, placing these women off a pedestal.

 

[corrector]

Sigh. @MatureDJ, if the other guys received what others referred to "FZ" hugs, or it was a friendship hug, (ie not a waist hug or hint of interest with the hug) would that have bothered you?

 

[MatureDJ]

In conclusion, there's a tie between the views that hugs don't hold significance and should be disregard it, and that OP's actions prevented him from receiving one.

Uh, what prevented me from receiving a hug was not an action, but a [pun intended] copula predicate - i.e., being short. I could have tried JesterMaxxing to glom on to this ephemerous social circle, but didn't.

These are actions of a high-value man. As I mentioned in my previous post, which you overlooked, it seems that OP tends to put women on a pedestal and likely invests more effort than they do

No, that's not it, other than me seeing a gal at a table sitting by herself and introducing myself. I mean, that's like minimal effort.

—actions that a high-value man does not have to take.

There, I added the proper auxiliary verb to make this an accurate statement.

 

[MatureDJ]

Sigh. @MatureDJ, if the other guys received what others referred to "FZ" hugs, or it was a friendship hug, (ie not a waist hug or hint of interest with the hug) would that have bothered you?

No, not really - even the weakest of frontal hugs would have been OK. Interesting, at a different time with this social group, I got talking with a woman that was about 190 cm, and somehow she had hugged me (I haven't seen her around in a while) - I guess I was quite charming that evening, or she is a neotenophile and likes to hug men that are short enough to have that effect.

 

[corrector]

No, not really - even the weakest of frontal hugs would have been OK. Interesting, at a different time with this social group, I got talking with a woman that was about 190 cm, and somehow she had hugged me (I haven't seen her around in a while) - I guess I was quite charming that evening, or she is a neotenophile and likes to hug men that are short enough to have that effect.

She stopped coming to the event after you and her hugged each other?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Uh, what prevented me from receiving a hug was not an action, but a [pun intended] copula predicate - i.e., being short. I could have tried JesterMaxxing to glom on to this ephemerous social circle, but didn't.

I think it's because you sexualise hugs that women get more hesitant when they just want to give you a friendly hug. If you're so starved for physical contact that any contact becomes significant, you will come across as extremely needy and sexually starved.

And you can throw that on your height, but you know that's not it, because

Interesting, at a different time with this social group, I got talking with a woman that was about 190 cm, and somehow she had hugged me (I haven't seen her around in a while) - I guess I was quite charming that evening, or she is a neotenophile and likes to hug men that are short enough to have that effect.

here you write about an extremely tall woman hugging you. And what do you do? You think that she's a freak who enjoys hugging short men.

There's no way to win, is there?
You don't get a hug, you get angry at the woman because you think she thinks you're too short.
You get a hug, you get angry at the woman because you think she hugged you because you're short.

I think you're just not huggable. Maybe you smell weird, maybe you start panting like a dog when a woman comes close, maybe you have clammy hands and oily skin, or you start humping their leg, but it has nothing to do with how tall you are.

 

[jhonny9546]

Have you ever considered the possibilities that a woman that show a open body language but don't hug or cheek kiss you, it's just too shy to reveal her sexual interest to you?
This is a clean IOI too, but you must be able to read it

 

[Divorced w 3]

I think it's because you sexualise hugs that women get more hesitant when they just want to give you a friendly hug. If you're so starved for physical contact that any contact becomes significant, you will come across as extremely needy and sexually starved.

This

 

[Clockwerk50]

No, not really - even the weakest of frontal hugs would have been OK. Interesting, at a different time with this social group, I got talking with a woman that was about 190 cm, and somehow she had hugged me (I haven't seen her around in a while) - I guess I was quite charming that evening, or she is a neotenophile and likes to hug men that are short enough to have that effect.

@corrector Are we still arguing about a hug or the types of hugs that exist then?

People wouldn't be so upset with OP's attitude if he at least acknowledged that he might have been "too eager," or that "he needs to change his approach to attract women," or that "perhaps he didn't build enough rapport with the girl he spoke with." Other possibilities could include "it's just a hug, who cares?" or "I can easily talk to other women and get a hug whenever I want," or even "you guys are right; I might need to go back and re-read the hall of fame posts on this website."

 

[corrector]

@corrector Are we still arguing about a hug or the types of hugs that exist then?

People wouldn't be so upset with OP's attitude if he at least acknowledged that he might have been "too eager," or that "he needs to change his approach to attract women," or that "perhaps he didn't build enough rapport with the girl he spoke with." Other possibilities could include "it's just a hug, who cares?" or "I can easily talk to other women and get a hug whenever I want," or even "you guys are right; I might need to go back and re-read the hall of fame posts on this website."

The type of hugs that exist and if it's triggering to the OP.

In context, these people were leaving the group. Probably there is nothing ot write about with the OP. Obviously he's AMOGGed by the other guys. There is not much you can do when you are AMOGGED since you are basically invisible or in a bad frame.

It's like, take me for example. I'm 48 years old, bald and obese. Then there is a ripped 25 year old guy with a head full of hair. Of course, the 25 year old guy is going to AMOG me no matter what I'm doing since. Women are going to appear to ignore me, or I'm going to feel invisible next to him.

I'm sorry, some of these game things just go out the window when you are AMOGGED and in a situation like the OP and it's not fair with him to apply these suggestions in that social context. This is not an OLD first date or a cold-approach where he got an IOI. This is his social circle. Unless there is a way to handle being AMOGGED if you look inferior, or if other guys have really better looks then you do and the lady(s) are responding to them better, then it's not helpful suggestions.

Just for the record, you have never been AMOGGED before and received disparate treatment from women? I mean I seem to be good at those types of experiences and I think if you have been hit hard from that angle then you can provide better suggestions to any attitude ajustment. If you are in a social environment that you can't compete...how do you handle that? 100% of my issues on here is NEVER because of a direct rejection from a woman, but because I'm AMOGGED brutally, but my post resonation comes across like a bad rejection experiences, etc...

 

[Clockwerk50]

The type of hugs that exist and if it's triggering to the OP.

In context, these people were leaving the group. Probably there is nothing ot write about with the OP. Obviously he's AMOGGed by the other guys. There is not much you can do when you are AMOGGED since you are basically invisible or in a bad frame.

It's like, take me for example. I'm 48 years old, bald and obese. Then there is a ripped 25 year old guy with a head full of hair. Of course, the 25 year old guy is going to AMOG me no matter what I'm doing since. Women are going to appear to ignore me, or I'm going to feel invisible next to him.

I'm sorry, some of these game things just go out the window when you are AMOGGED and in a situation like the OP and it's not fair with him to apply these suggestions in that social context. This is not an OLD first date or a cold-approach where he got an IOI. This is his social circle. Unless there is a way to handle being AMOGGED if you look inferior, or if other guys have really better looks then you do and the lady(s) are responding to them better, then it's not helpful suggestions.

Just for the record, you have never been AMOGGED before and received disparate treatment from women? I mean I seem to be good at those types of experiences and I think if you have been hit hard from that angle then you can provide better suggestions to any attitude ajustment. If you are in a social environment that you can't compete...how do you handle that? 100% of my issues on here is NEVER because of a direct rejection from a woman, but because I'm AMOGGED brutally, but my post resonation comes across like a bad rejection experiences, etc...

So, we went from hugs, to types of hugs, and now onto AMOGs...

The thing is, I posted links to discussions about not dwelling on the negatives and a hall of fame post about trying too hard with women. This conversation likely won’t change your mind; you’re a 48-year-old man with a fully developed perspective, and it’s clear you’ve been around long enough to know the advice out there.

Personally, I think both of you struggle with your masculine energy here. There is a lack of emotional control, which can lead to feelings of sadness easily, not following through on tasks, and getting stuck in your comfort zone. It even looks like you are neglecting your physical and mental health and you are relying too much on distractions, like excessive screen time or masturbating constantly. These patterns create a sense of weakness, both mentally and emotionally, which can leave you feeling overshadowed by others. This might be why you’re magnifying minor issues into something much bigger. Instead of letting that negativity fester, it’s importan to channel that energy into self-improvement.

Maybe you can provide OP with some pointers on how he can build his confidence and engage more effectively in social situations since not everyone here can. What strategies do you think he could adopt to feel more empowered and less overshadowed in the future?

 

[corrector]

What strategies do you think he could adopt to feel more empowered and less overshadowed in the future?

Like I said, he can watch ASMR videos. I don't watch them unless there is 2 days without an interaction or I'm particularly triggered, like the OP. However, no triggering event, on the level of the OP has happened since April this year. I'm quite measured on how I apply my copes.

If he gets an injection of love from the right ASMR videos then he should feel less insecure about these types of situations.

 

[BaronOfHair]

There's no way to win, is there?
You don't get a hug, you get angry at the woman because you think she thinks you're too short.
You get a hug, you get angry at the woman because you think she hugged you because you're short.

I'm continuously astounded by the fresh parallels between Generically Red Pill men and Intersectional Feminists that crop up, each and every day...
If your eyes wander up and down a beautiful colleague who's dolled up... Well, that's "Perpetuating The Male Gaze and furthering Systemic Oppression". If you DON'T check her out, you're "Exercising Male Privilege, by not acknowledging her physical and emotional labor"

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

If your eyes wander up and down a beautiful colleague who's dolled up... Well, that's "Perpetuating The Male Gaze and furthering Systemic Oppression". If you DON'T check her out, you're "Exercising Male Privilege, by not acknowledging her physical and emotional labor"

And if you glance at them and look away again, they come up to you and ask you if they can join your table.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Like I said, he can watch ASMR videos. I don't watch them unless there is 2 days without an interaction or I'm particularly triggered, like the OP. However, no triggering event, on the level of the OP has happened since April this year. I'm quite measured on how I apply my copes.

If he gets an injection of love from the right ASMR videos then he should feel less insecure about these types of situations.

I get that you use ASMR as a coping mechanism as it provides temporary relief. However, relying on external sources for validation might not address the root of the issue. It’s great that that you measure how you cope, but for OP and for yourself, building genuine confidence and social skills will have a more lasting impact than watching ASMR. Eventually, both will realize how insignificant hugs really are in the grand scheme of things.

Instead of depending on these distractions, what if OP focused on real-life interactions? Engaging in activities that boost his self-esteem, like finding an identity through fitness, hobbies, and socializing, could really help him in the long run. What steps do you think he could take to start making those changes?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

What steps do you think he could take to start making those changes?

I think OP had enough advice to further his seduction career, but he's unable to put words into action.