I don't know whether to laugh or cry.....

[wjh]

If it weren't for the fact that I feel str8up's about to meltdown, I'd be pissed.

 

[wjh]

I think a mod needs to force a temp-ban on STR8 for his own health.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo Str8up,


I may be wrong, because there's no way I can prove it, BUT I suspect that as of late, you have settled quite comfortably into the habit of ignoring threads that offer a different viewpoint than your own. AND...I also suspect that you may even be ignoring posts within YOUR OWN threads that do not commiserate with the views that you are currently holding. And I don't mean just my posts in particular, but MANY posts by MANY different guys on here who have a genuine interest in seeing you overcome the things that are dragging you down.

And if I am correct, I just see this as evidence of an ever-widening gulf that seems to be growing between men on here who are slowly falling into two distinct camps:

1. The Pragmatic: Those who are often viewed by those on the opposite side (and maybe sometimes wrongly so) as "negative", "bitter", "apathetic", "defeatist", "cynical", etc.

Or

2. The Hopeful: (those who are often viewed by those on the opposite side (and maybe sometimes wrongly so) as "naive", "soft", "gullible", "pollyianish", "sheltered", "inexperienced", "unlearned", etc.

Well, I think that BOTH sides can each at least learn something from the other. I think this push and pull effect can sometimes help keep us all a little bit more honest with each other, AND ourselves. And although, I'm not "naive" enough to believe that we have the power to instantly change anyone's lives with an internet post-----I do believe that the thoughts we share with each other here can have a significant impact when it comes to expanding our views of the world.

I consider you one of our MOST openminded posters here----that's why I find it somewhat disappointing to see you so quickly choose to walk in the way of the "closeminded"-----when it comes to at least considering trying some of the different things people have been suggesting.

It's almost as if your attitude is "Yeah, whatever...I already KNOW I'm right about everything anyway. And I see no value in even considering trying things any other way----even temporarily..."

And if indeed that is your mindset, I wonder what it is that you want from us? Is this current post of yours an invitation for conversation for others to offer their opinions? Or is this only a rant, and you could really care less what ANYBODY has to say on this particular matter? If you would just answer this question for us, then the majority of us would know better how to react or how NOT to react to what you have written.

I say this because many, many, MANY guys on here have been asking you questions, offering you alternatives, and generally seeking to aid you as you fight your way through this present malaise that you are experiencing.

Yet, it would seem that your responses of late have been to scoff at, make light of, or generally condescend to SOME of the guys on here who actually are sincerely interested in YOU, and what you are going through. Now I understand that not all of us may come across like we really give a damn----but SOME of us do, man. And RECOGNIZE that "we" recognize that we don't necessarily claim to have all the answers. None of us here can claim that we have "cornered the market" in the area of knowing every goddammed thing------but respectfully, AND just as importantly, also realize that neither have you.

But what we DO have, and what we CAN offer each other is an alternate perspective, and perhaps, some suggestions as to ways that we can help each other elevate higher than our present circumstances.

So know that WE are not the enemy. And ultimately, consider opening yourself up to the possibility that also----neither are ALL women.

There is an old Latin phrase that says:

"nil carborundum illegitimi".

This phrase was used a lot during World War II, but it was popularized by General "Vinegar Joe" Stilwell------and he used it as his motto.

Here's the English Translation:

"DON'T LET THE BASTARDS GRIND YOU DOWN!"

...and feel free to substitute Bastards with Biiitches if you like. :yes:

My suggestion to you is to adopt this confrontational, war-like mindset towards ALL the things in your life that seek to rob you of your will to live ENTHUSIASTICALLY. And recognize that the mission of EVERY good soldier is to make sure that his ENEMIES (the events, things and/or circumstances in his life that seek to depress him, to hold him back, or to hold him down) "DIE" for their cause-------not the other way around.


Much peace and much respect to you.

 

[reset]

but life is a funny thing. often times its our darkest hours that lead us to our brightest moments. who knows, str8up may hit rock bottom and end up completely retooling his life as a result.

Hey that's what I'm doing! I just need to remind myself of postive perspectives like that.

:rock:

 

[cordoncordon]

Yo Str8up,

Women flake because they are not interested.

Lower your standards my man. Stop shooting for the stars. There are plenty of quality women out there. You are just not attracted to them.

If you want LOOKS and QUALITY, then you are in a very competive environment. Do you want to compete?

Then look your best.

Diet and Weight Training.

There is no magic formula. It is very simple.

Hey Str8up. How's it going? Here is my view of you and your current situation. You may not like it, but I feel as though you are mature enough to handle a little outside constructive criticism .

Ok, that last quote was dead on, along with the people who feel much of your problem is a direct result of the people you hang with. To start with, I really feel after seeing your pic from that thread this fall that really good looking women will look at you as more of a "friend" or "buddy" rather than someone they will want as a bf. You just have that vibe about you. I think that you may not be as good looking as you think you are, and that affects your game. You keep going after these 8's and 9's, and you should be going after the 5's, 6's, and 7's. Yeah, the 8's and 9's that you hang with-the wild party girls-are going to "party" with you, because that's the type of people they are, but realistically, most if not all aren't gonna want to be your gf. And after a while, this has frustrated you to no end. Understandable. Don't take this personally. I consider myself about an 8. I have never had problems getting the 5-8.5's or so. But the 9's and 10's on the look scale? Very seldom do I get one. It can get frustrating but if you accept who and what you are on the hierarchy ladder, it gets easier. I think that you are fooled by these hot looking party women that you flirt with. That come to your place to party. They flirt with you so they must like you right? (In fact that is another thing I have noticed about your behavior-you do have a tendency to think almost any women you talk to "wants" you) But the truth is these women in that lifestyle flirt and party with almost anyone. It's who they are. But, in the end it means nothing.

Also, I know you don't want to hear it, but as much as you want to believe otherwise, and as much as you believe the crowd you hang with is "normal", I know that judging from my own experience that if I hung with your crowd one night, I would probably feel as uncomfortable as all hell. I mean the constant strippers, cheaters, *****s, wild sex parties? It's just not a type of crowd that is condusive to what you are looking for-a long lasting stable relationship with a classy woman. I'm sure most are very nice people and I'm sure that most of the people you hang with aren't mentally unstable, but that doesn't mean I want to take them home to mom. The type of women I hang with (this doesn't make them better btw) would be pretty shocked at the type of behavior that the women you hang with exhibit. They are executives, mothers, college grads with masters degrees, white collar, etc etc etc. They like to go out, have a nice dinner, go to an upper class bar, maybe go dancing-maybe a movie, then go home and go to bed. They aren't looking to do drugs, get obliterated while drinking, show their tits to random strangers, sleep with anyone, swing, etc etc etc. And believe it or not str8up, there are many many MANY such people out there like that. You just have to branch out a little in who you are dealing with.

Believe me I get where you are coming from. I've hung with the type of crowd that you have before, and it can get very easy to get wrapped up in that lifestyle. Everything is so EASY. The flirting, the sex, the parties, the drugs and drinking. But it's all superficial. Because the people who deal in that lifestyle more than likely are flawed. Using that lifestyle to fulfill something they don't get in life. It's much harder to get an great education, get a respectable high paying job, flirt with and hit on women with class, forge relationships with women like that. It can be intimidating. But...in the long run, much more rewarding.

Here's hoping to a change in lifestyle and the rewards that follow for you!

 

[aliasguy]

i second cordon...

there are nice girls out there!

nice girls that you can have a chat with, go to the movies with, have dinner with, sex even! and aren't total cvnts or obsessed with power games. and areb't these the girls that we really want. girls that are real! girls that are caring! nurturing! loving!

STR8 bein the smart man that you are, you should be able to pick these girls out on sight. i know i can. they are the kind of girl that look ordinary at first. simple clothes. not drawing attention to herself. but when you look again you see just how beautiful they are. their smile and their warmth. very approachable. very human. very real girls. and the kind of girl who will put forth effort FOR YOU. to make you feel good. to have a chat with you just because. and then you look at the blonded up attention ***** with her power games and her legion of men after her and you think, what the fukk is going on here?

take the nice girl man... somewhere along the line things got fukked up when girls started doing this princessy crap and AW crap and we found it attractive and we got distracted by them... forgetting and not noticing the nice girl. but theres still nice girls out there. i wasn't sure at first, and i was ranting and complaining just like you are now, but then i found a whole bunch and now i know what to look for.

head up.

most of the sh!t on this website (besides turning you into a stronger better man) is aimed at dealing with cvnts and attention *****s and chicks who like power games. it sux that a website like this is needed just for us guys to stay afloat so to speak. but thats only bc most of the time we're dealing with power hungry attention ***** princesses. and its a shame theres so many of them. ive seen even supposed good girls go down this route and that is what is disheartening.

but head up. cos nice girls do exist. she's at the library quiet and tucked away in the corner, or she might be the realy friendly chatty girl swiping your groceries at the checkout, or she might be the nurturing caring nurse at the hospital.

if she's in slut clothes....no
if her hair is bleached....no
if she's a major drinker...no
if she smokes.....no
if she has a tonne of guys after her....no
if she has an attitude....no

cute, friendly, caring, happy, confident.....yes!

just look at her closely and you'll know straight away.

This SOUNDS very nice, but it isn't consistent with my own experiences in the real world. Nor of my family, friends, and associates. Nor of anyone I've ever met who's over 30.

You can't know what a woman is all about until you've known her a long time.

 

[Interceptor]

I am going to respect Str8up, and bow respectfully out of this thread and any future thread he decides to post.

Thanks.

 

[aliasguy]

yes that is true... but the eyes never lie man... they reveal all. when you first meet her you can look at her face and into her eyes and depending on how good you are, you'll know more or less what she's like. its always there if you keep looking at her eyes and her face.

in the past ive made bad judgements with girls thinking that a particular one was nice and all that who later turns out to be pure evil and i think how could i have been wrong...but sure enough...there it was in her eyes. it was there all along.

the eyes dont lie.

you can tell if someone is sneaky / a liar / a manipulator / an AW. same as you can tell if someone is kind, nice and generally a good person.

No, you can't. Sorry, bud.
Live some more. You'll see. Eyes can lie, too.
You just can't tell.

 

[joekerr31]

No, you can't. Sorry, bud.
Live some more. You'll see. Eyes can lie, too.
You just can't tell.

well the thing that can make it hard is that many women are able to make 180 degree turns very quickly. so one moment she can be totally in love with you and if you look in her eyes that is what you will see. and then a week later she is pissed off over something and hates your guts.

women aren't very good at controlling their emotions. most of them have the emotional maturity of a child. one day a child can behave absolutely perfectly and then the next day they are throwing tantrums cuz they didn't get what they want. they throw these tantrums because its the only 'power' they have. and this is why women do it also. emotional tantrums and sex are the only two mechanisms women have for trying to control their man - which is why 99% of the complaints about women revolve around these two things.

but what you will notice is that children who have parents that have rules and who enforce those rules consistently, have children that are much better behaved.

the more mature you are, the more mature your woman will behave. the less mature you are, the less mature she will behave.

which is why one of the worst things you can do is make her the prize and let her control you using her p*ssy. its basically the equivalent of letting a child control you - the outcome is NEVER goign to be good.

when we say women want to be 'lead' what we are really saying is that women want boundaries. its like control, but its authoritative control versus authoritarian control. its control based on 'i expect you to behave like a mature adult and i will not accept childish immature behavior from you. i hold myself to those standards and as such i hold you to those standards.'

as opposed to the 'do what i say!' type of control.

its control based on principles as opposed to control based on emotions.

the problem is that most guys don't know enough about being mature to be able to be authoritative. you have to walk the walk before you can talk the talk. if you tell a woman 'i expect maturity' but you yourself are not behaving mature, she will see the hypocricy in your statements and basically ignore your frame.

 

[reset]

Good post Joekerr. We can make the mistake that just becasue she has an adult body, can use adult words and interact in an adult environment, that she's an adult. If you think back to when you were a kid it makes more sense to treat them that way, and they respond to authority and maturity (and discipline) in the same fashion.

So yeah... you really need to be mature inside and lead your OWN LIFE, lead your OWN inner "little kid" before you can lead a woman. Women need strong men who are mature adults. I don't believe they make that effort to become mature adults in the same way we as men do, or have the same defining character building moments we do, they just play it out from relationship to relationship.

Which is nature. There's nothing wrong with it. The matrix just never told me that.

 

[aliasguy]

I apologize to STR8UP and everyone else for so frequently taking side trips and getting away from the point of a thread. I do this WAY too much.

With regard to STR8UP's little "crisis," here, I have just another small point to add. It seems to me that this guy KNOWS a lot, has a pretty good grip on whats going on, but DOESN'T LIKE IT.

He knows the basics cold, and seems to be able to have a good amount of non-self-deluding self-analysis. BUT, he doesn't like what he sees. He wants women to be other than they are, even though he knows they will only be as they REALLY ARE. And he's frustrated and disappointed. And he won't let that dream die. The dream of a solid, trusting relationship with a woman that will last forever, and she will always have his back and care for and about him. And I'd bet he would love to give a deserving woman those very things from himself, if only she would reciprocate.

But his experiences tell him it won't be reciprocated. . Maybe he's running with a crowd that makes this a little more obvious to him than some other crowd. Perhaps this is a blessing. It lets STR8UP see the basic deal clearly, with, actually, more directness, less sneakiness, and certainly less hypocrisy. The library, church, yoga, ice cream crowd has nearly the same amount of screwed-up stuff (cheating, manipulation, selfishness, etc.) as the party scene. But you can at least be more likely to EXPECT it from the party scene.

In the other group, "bad" behavior is SO much more hidden, and eventually even more disappointing, because it's underground, and sneakier. And, in my view, MORE damaging and hypocritical.

I don't know why STR8UP is freaking out. He should know better than to expect from women anything other that their true nature. I don't know why his expectations are so out of sync with his knowledge and experience. I know he's very frustrated. He wants MORE. In fairness to him, I'll say he has actually offered help to me, and I don't believe he is as selfish and as much a "taker" as some have posted.

Speaking of expectations, during my divorce, I was looking at things in a certain way, and it was frustrating my lawyer. I was going to mess up if I continued in that mode. He finally said: "You are expecting justice and fairness... You are going to get NEITHER." I had to adjust my attitude.


STR8UP's attitude is messed up right now. He can't see it. He will later. He's frustrated, angry, resentful, and (I believe) a little afraid to truly accept the way things really are - -- not just intellectually, but deeply in his core, without "wishing" things were otherwise.

I wish him all the best in slogging through this phase.

 

[guru1000]

.
but what you will notice is that children who have parents that have rules and who enforce those rules consistently, have children that are much better behaved.

when we say women want to be 'lead' what we are really saying is that women want boundaries. its like control, but its authoritative control versus authoritarian control. its control based on 'i expect you to behave like a mature adult and i will not accept childish immature behavior from you. i hold myself to those standards and as such i hold you to those standards.'

as opposed to the 'do what i say!' type of control.

its control based on principles as opposed to control based on emotions.

the problem is that most guys don't know enough about being mature to be able to be authoritative. you have to walk the walk before you can talk the talk. if you tell a woman 'i expect maturity' but you yourself are not behaving mature, she will see the hypocricy in your statements and basically ignore your frame.

This is the foundation that is missing in 90% of failed relationships.

 

[STR8UP]

I want to reply to some of these other posts as well but time is limited so for now let me address this one

Ok, that last quote was dead on, along with the people who feel much of your problem is a direct result of the people you hang with.

I don't know how else to explain the fact that I don't hang out with strippers and other party girls. I DO "party" with my friends, we DO go out and drink, but most of my friends ARE NOT hardcore partiers. I have made threads about strippers and such and even a couple of my friends that ARE a little more on the wild side, but I don't spend much time with them and these aren't the people I am talking about in this post.

Nobody will listen to me when I say these are the same people most of you probably hang out with, I don't know why I try to convince you otherwise.

Deep Dish has met several of my friends and I'm sure he can attest to the fact that they aren't a bunch of junkies and prostitutes.

To start with, I really feel after seeing your pic from that thread this fall that really good looking women will look at you as more of a "friend" or "buddy" rather than someone they will want as a gf. You just have that vibe about you. I think that you may not be as good looking as you think you are, and that affects your game. You keep going after these 8's and 9's, and you should be going after the 5's, 6's, and 7's.

First off, I don't photograph well at all. I am much better looking in person

Seriously though....I don't take good pics, but I already made the disclaimer that I'm not "the best looking guy out there", but I hold my own. I don't think I ever represented myself to be anything different.

Yeah, the 8's and 9's that you hang with-the wild party girls-are going to "party" with you, because that's the type of people they are, but realistically, most if not all aren't gonna want to be your gf. And after a while, this has frustrated you to no end.

You are getting the wrong idea. I don't care to have a 9 or a 10. Most of the women I pursue are in the 7-8 category. And I am not, not, NOT frustrated that ANY of them "don't want to be my girlfriend".

You read the initial post, right? I know it probably wasn't 100% clear as to what exactly I was saying, but frustration over women not wanting me??? Going for 9's and 10's and frustrated that they won't date me?? That's not what I was getting at at all. Where did you get this from?

(In fact that is another thing I have noticed about your behavior-you do have a tendency to think almost any women you talk to "wants" you)

To distinguish between attraction and flirty behavior all you have to do is watch how she reacts with OTHER men. I pay attention to these things.

Also, I know you don't want to hear it, but as much as you want to believe otherwise, and as much as you believe the crowd you hang with is "normal", I know that judging from my own experience that if I hung with your crowd one night, I would probably feel as uncomfortable as all hell.

You are completely wrong.

Seriously guys, you get to see ONE side of me, and ONE side of the people I post about. Of course you don't hear about the uneventful, mundane stuff. WHAT YOU READ HERE IS NOT AN ACCURATE DEPICTION OF MY LIFE.

 

[STR8UP]

i honestly think none of this is really about women. i think its about 'life' and he's simply using 'women' as a thing that he can project all his negative emotions on.

i think he feels 'ripped off' in life and is mad as hell about it. and i think he thinks the only thing that could make up for how much he's been screwed over in life is if he had a great chic. but making that the 'solution' then only makes him feel even MORE ripped off cuz he can't get even that.

It goes much deeper than women, it's about people and life in general, but it isn't anger.

 

[Metro3pilot]

(In fact that is another thing I have noticed about your behavior-you do have a tendency to think almost any women you talk to "wants" you)

Damn, I have been thinking that for years .... it's not true ?

:rockon:

There goes my confidence ..... thanks guys

 

[guru1000]

Originally Posted by joekerr31
i honestly think none of this is really about women. i think its about 'life' and he's simply using 'women' as a thing that he can project all his negative emotions on.

i think he feels 'ripped off' in life and is mad as hell about it. and i think he thinks the only thing that could make up for how much he's been screwed over in life is if he had a great chic. but making that the 'solution' then only makes him feel even MORE ripped off cuz he can't get even that.

It goes much deeper than women, it's about people and life in general, but it isn't anger.

Hey Str8UP,

Guess what?

I do not know how bad you were screwed over . However I can tell you, I have been screwed over in business over and over for tons of money. Even today, I got screwed again. Ive been snitched on, lied about to the FEDS, even falsely accused and convicted. I also served time for this false conviction. I have had 5 of my best friends literally screw me and my other very good friends not even take a phone call or visit when I was away. I do not have a convict mentality. I am an everyday guy like you.

But never once have I ever pointed fingers and blamed the world. I have always accepted responsibility.

You are a good guy. But this attitude of "The World Sucks" is WEAK.

I have every reason to complain and point fingers, but I don't. Nor will I ever.
I take it on the chin and do the best I can.

You are a MAN. Don't BLAME your unhappiness on low quality women and LIFE. Don't ever say "BOOHOO, Ive been screwed over, people are bad."

That is a WEAK MENTALITY and you don't seem WEAK to me.

You know my situation briefly. I have a negative million net worth and a criminal record. Yet I keep an optimistic attitude toward life and people despite my sour circumstances. I wake up every day like a BULL and move foward.

Most importantly, I keep my chin up and keep swinging.

 

[STR8UP]

I don't think the world sucks, and I don't think women suck even if I do allude to such from time to time. I take it for what it is, but it can be depressing at times. And lately when I really need to see something that proves me wrong, everything I see seems to prove me RIGHT.

 

[Latinoman]

I was out tonight with some female friends, one of them who is dead set on finding me a "good" woman. Then her coworker or whatever she was comes up with all of this "women are superior" bullsh!t and I just wanted to slap the sh!t out of her. If it weren't for the dozen or so AFC's orbiting around her all night she might have just gotten a little piece of my mind, FWIW. Yea, just because you have a pu$$y that means that men should BOW to you. Well that ain't me. Good luck with it all.

Do you have any decent MALE friends? You always go out with female friends, that are in return, associated with skanky or negative females.

Negativity is NOT following you. Quite the opposite...YOU are seeking it. You own a business...but to this date I have not seen you say that you have gone to a Conference (where lot of small business type people tend to go) or something. You know...you can meet better women there too.

 

[iqqi]

Okay Str8up you are about to call me crazy, but in actuality I think you have concluded the wrong beliefs about women.

Your thoughts in your head can always find ANYTHING in the world to reinforce them, then these thoughts become internal STRONG beliefs and CAUSE you to ACT differently.

Now you can't trust a woman? Now you will "never" be in a one-on-one fulfillign relationship with a woman? All of this from talking to the girls and encountering the girls you have over the previous 40 or so years of your life?

How can you conclude such a belief?

Str8up the first thing you have to do is realize that while most women are ATTRACTED and TURNED on in the same format (sexuality + looks + status + effort), this doesn't mean that every girl is on the same LEVEL nor if they are all the SAME partner wise.

Stru8p you UNDERSTAND attraction, so you no longer will be classified as UN-attractive. Okay but that's compared to the Sales Guy who now understands and knows how to sale, this doesn't mean that YOU WANT TO SALE EVERY PROSPECT. Some prospects you can sale, BUT, they just aren't good for business/profit sake.

Anti-Dump said you don't build a relationship you buy one, so if you are seeing the symptoms of a person that's not a great person in general, why not reject THAT person and go to another prospect?

It's like the hardcore women who BELIEVE that all men are dogs and worthless, now Stru8p you know you're not a dog and worthless right? But see the problem is these women NEVER met a guy like you before. They have been with the (sexual, great looks, great status) guys who have been total jerks and dycks.

See, I believe a HEALTHY, MATURE woman's dream is the sexual, great looks, great status guy with an internal nice, charming, and cool personality. Str8up that's YOU, but you are CHOOSING the wrong women.

Trust me. Your beliefs are flawed.

Just as there are RARE men who are attractive (sexual, great looks, great status) ANDDD great guys (nice, charming, cool), there are just as RARE women who are attractive (great looks, great personality, great status), ANDDD great partners (supportive, caring, trustworthy, true companion, love like a mother)

Okay, so don't expect MAJORITY of women to be the high quality ones. Most women are only great for sex because many fit the attractive qualifications but fail the partner ones.

But to get ticked off and say "it's all lost hope?" Are you kidding me?

You have to start looking for symptoms of a higher quality woman, I will write a post on this maybe later this week.

You are making me prouder and PROUDER every post. I haven't finished reading the thread, I had to stop and give you kudo's here.

I feel like the #1 thing I keep telling STR8UP is seek different women... but now I think that STR8UP is one of them. Birds of a feather flock together, you know? Maybe he keeps attracting women who mirror him in something ugly about his soul that he needs to address.

A lot of his posts seem to be empty drivel to me. He's interested in aging AW's and strippers and fantasizes about some foreign chick who probably hasn't done SH!T to truly show she's a good woman.

I think many women just aren't interested in STR8UP because of his looks and values, and I think if they WERE throwing themselves at him (really, as in wanting LTR's and not just to toy with him), I'd be willing to bet he'd choose the AW stripper over a "good girl".

 

[STR8UP]

HE should be in control of WHO he talks to and WHEN he talks to them, not somebody else. So right there that's a symptom of a lack of total self and life control.

Who said I'm not in control of who I talk to?

SLAP?? And I was paranoid about a woman putting me in jail in a previous thread?

Of course I would never do something like that, and chances are this chick was just trying to get my attention cause I wasn't giving her any, but even when a chick jokes around about women being superior or something like that it really gets under my skin.

"Yea, just because you have a pu$$y that means that men should BOW to you. Well that ain't me. Good luck with it all."

Bitterness too? What in the hell is going on around here?

How is that bitter?