Boot Camp for The Mature Man

[traveller]

Hello everybody!
First of all I would like to excuse myself for my english. Usually I just read it. My mother tongue is french.
What I read about Stockholm reminds me my hometown city of Geneva, except the fact that it is even worse there! If you can chat up hotties there, well it means that you can do it everywhere on this planet with a high level of efficiency. Believe me or not but the girls here and not only the HBs just don't see you even in evening places like bars. My wing and I we each time feel as if we were completely invisible. The only reasonable targets for us are the foreigners. Luckily enough there are quite a lot of in Geneva.
Anyway after so many years of AFCism I feel now the urge of starting this BC from the beginning. But I have a question about the first step. I tried 3 hellos yesterday and I felt so weird that I am not so sure of the efficieny of it. How can you say just hello to a girl without even trying to continue if you are lucky enough to get a positive response? Many thanks for your answers. And congratulations for your great and so useful posts!

 

[DoubleD]

Welcome traveller! Your english sounds fine to me.. and I wouldn't worry about it anyway... all of us speak a different language day to day.. so tis cool!

My advice is follow the bootcamp and do the stuff no matter how weird and odd it feels. We all have all sorts of barriers, fears and things that we think are unbelievable. To be 100% honest if I was to read my own posts like 5 months ago I would have said "yeah sure.. BS..." but trust me the magic happens. And Boot Camp is designed to take you through all of it.. plus for me get me off my ASS and actually do.. rather than sit around and hope/plan.

Now onto your question before I start ranting.. yes.. do the hello.. without anything else. Its a good step.. It will make you more confortable.. if you try and follow it up with convo immediatly you may run the risk of bruising your ego and not wanting to go forward. If you look at BC, looking for rejections is week 4 and there is a good reason for that.. cause by then you've gotten past your initial weirdness feelings.

Now thats not to say that you can't go furthur.. thats a personal decision. If you think a HB is buying the hello.. go for it.. just don't place too much value on the overall outcome (POSITIVE or NEGATIVE) we're learning.. and thats all that really matters.. not success, not faliure.. but rather doing. Sucess just comes as a natural byproduct of doing.

 

[Maverick001]

My BC got all f#cked up but there's still some good news...

Hi Guys,

Too much stupid sh!t happened in my life that derailed my BC but I still have some FR's and LR's to share so I'll do that soon enough.

Cheers,
Mav

 

[traveller]

Many thanks DoubleD for your comment. As a famous french playwright( Corneille) wrote : The value of a person doesn't wait the number of years ! I am 12 years older than you but you know how to deal with girls much better, to say the least.
I will try to do it but believe me the HBs of Geneva are amazingly proud and cold. Anyway at my age now I feel that it is probably my last chance to quit at last the grey world of an old swiss AFC..

 

[dj2l8]

Welcome to the newbies...

Welcome to traveller and realnycguy!

There is no age limit on this folks...I'm glad we've got some more in this forum. I think many folks think, and I thought this way once, that hey, once I get 30 or so, I'll start chatting and won't give a crap what the ladies say...but in fact it's the opposite! The more established the pattern, the more difficult to break.

Now for some unsolicited advice.

1) Go back and read this forum from the beginning to get a sense of who's here and what we're like/where we're at. You'll notice a lot of difference...we're all at different stages. DoubleD, ParallelElvis, Zentraveller and Mantra are certainly well along and provide excellent motivation. Many of us would consider it a great success if we could accomplish where they are at now.

2) If you begin to notice a pattern of anxiety, try and get to the root of it. Mantra's been great with the reading material and I've learned a lot about why my mental blocks are so thick. There's a big difference between shyness around the ladies and a deep rooted pathology...both are conquered, but knowledge is the key.

3) Accept the fact that this s**t is going to be hard work AND that this a LONG term process. Many folks have ripped through the boot camp and have completely peeled off their shyness in a matter of months. But the reality is that it's going to take some of us a lot more than 8 weeks. This stuff is like a low-carb diet...it's not a fad, it's a way of life. These are changes to be made permanent and as such, need to be internalized and worked on for a long time. Lots of the reading will tell you that this will be fun and light. But when you're nervous...it's anything but fun. (read some of my posts. ;-)

4) Read, read, read...the more you read, the better off you are.

5) Get involved...you either need to be regularly posting or else have a buddy girl or guy that WILL HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE. You can't just drop in here and expect changes.

I hope this was helpful. Now get out there and get week 1 done.

Regards,

DJ2L8

 

[Mantra]

Greetings to traveller and realnycguy - good to have you here - I'm sure you'll enjoy the progressw that Boot Camp can offer no end!

Ok.... went to salsa class last night, and ended up hitting on a cute 23y.o. russian chick (HB7.5) who was at the club. When she came to dance with me in the rotating group class I fired off some comment to her and she said "I am verry shy!" to which I replied "you... shy? I don't believe you" she giggled as she went on to her next partner.

When she came back around to me, we danced our routine together pretty well so I said "wow, that was cool!" She said "Oh...thank you" and I said "I didn't mean you, I meant me!!" with a C+F smile. She dug it, I was in there.

After the class, I ended up talking to her for about three hours. Turns out she was a real intellectual babe, studying for her masters here in Stockholm, so the convo sometimes got a bit serious for my liking, about valuation of properties and russian politics (aaarrgghh!) etc, but I often moved it back to fun things like her passions in life, astrological personality traits instead. Did some wild dancing with her as well. Anyway, to cut a long story short, she left with me and caught the subway, but I let her go home as I was majorly tired at this point (I know.... getting older, hahaha!) but I left with her number. I also asked her to say something interesting in russian, which I would then imitate, and she fired "I would like to see you again" at me.

I was aiming to go out tonight and pick up a whole stack of rejections, but ended up leaving with one phone number instead.

So the score for week 4 so far is 1 rejection and 1 number...... got to get moving on some more rejections I feel.

Great advice there from dj2l8 by the way, and good luck to maverick with getting back into the swing.

 

[DoubleD]

Hey all.. nice that our little group is growing.. Well done on the Russian Mantra.. i feel your pain.. you go out to get rejected and instead you end up with a HB7.5 Russian that you could have probably gone home with.. I HATE those days!

I was a little out of action this weekend.. (which has been a major bummer) went to a gym party on Thursday night and tried to get two rejections.. but instead got two new phone numbers. Neither of them are that hot.. I was just trying to get some rejections so I'm not going to bother calling. LOL anyway.. at gym I was carrying a woman in my arms and were doing running races.. the couple next to me tripped and the smashed my legs away from under me.. so I fell, cusioned my lady passengers fall and totally screwed up my knee! Its starting to get better now but didn't get to do much. I caught up for a coffee with HBSupermarket who immediatly tried to get close to me (intimacy, hold hands etc.) but i cut that off because I really wasn't in the mood and wanted her to understand that she isn't my GF. Just had a quick quiet night with her and took off. (followed by like 3 SMSs from her asking if I was ok and asking when we can catch up again). I got to be careful here ... she's displaying signs of attachment too much to be a FB. I also got an SMS from a girl that I met 2 weeks ago about going out tonight.. so I should be heading out with her in a couple of hours. Either way feel kinda ****ty.. cause was planning on having a big weekend and meeting all sorts of other interesting women.. but because of the knee didn't get to do any of that..

I really need to work on my rejections.. need to chase them down harder. Dunno maybe hang out a modelling agency or something for day and see how many i can get?? LOL could be fun actually and plenty of those places here in Milan.

 

[traveller]

Hello to all!
I decided to try to post despite my very limited English.
First of all I must admit that I am very uncomfortable with the Hi only approach. I decided today evening to try cold approaches on the street but I choked exactly 12 times my friends ( two of those girls were 9++ extremely hot HBs). Yes I had 12 good opportunities but I was so scary that I couldn’t try any move. I noticed that I read some many openers that I really don’t know which one to use in the real life. Besides, when I am facing an HBs my head doesn’t work any more and is full of fear. To follow the 3 seconds rule it is to my point of view necessary to have and use 2-3 openers maximum but don’t ask me which one! Last but not least, as you read I am 37 years old and I can’t help thinking very often that it is maybe to late to become a DJ after so many years of escape.
The only positive thing of today is this opener I discovered randomly for cashiers in shops. For example I went to a bookshop today evening and asked the hot cashier at what time they will close. I even didn’t think about flirting this time. So I was very surprised to listen her long answer with details and comments ( she gave me the schedule for all the week and said that they work more than the average…!!). So surprised that I didn’t add anything. I feel so miserable about it… Anyway I will try to apply this opener with each cashier and seller from now on.
I am afraid that this post will be useless for you. Excuse me if it is the case. I just try to get involved with my colleagues although I know that you are much more advanced than me. I strongly hope to write more positive posts in the near future!

 

[DoubleD]

Hey Traveller.. don't get stressed and start small. Start by saying hi to store people etc.. hell start with male staff if that makes you more confortable. Then go for the HB staff, then go to average street people and then for HBs.. pace yourself.. you don't need to run immediatly.. When I started my 1st bootcamp (aaages ago) I remember most of my His were initally guys (although felt gay.. was good to get a Hi) then HBs later. So pace yourself with everything. Then when you get to convos start with store people again or whatever you are more confortable with.. then move up.. don't get stressed.

I've been busy with work recently so haven't done too much. But Thursday evening I am heading into town and opening all sorts of street and store game.. going to try and get the 10 rejections sealed. Then I have a date with a HB who has/had a bf.. and I'm not sure if he's coming or not.. whatever.. go to location and if she's there with her BF use them as social proof and pickup other women. LOL

 

[Mantra]

Keep positive Traveller.
Yes, it is hard at first. Some days I go out to do some BC activities, but end up doing nothing, so it's all down to the state you can get yourself in. Study all you can about self-confidence.
Use hypnosis tapes.
Get some Anthony Robbins materials.
Read my post on page four about loading up on self-esteem points.
Approach it all with an ultraplayful attitude and let go of placing importance on the outcome. Download Pilinski and DeAngelo e-books - great advice, but start off with small steps.
Approaching attractive women and asking for directions (sometimes even this can lead to a convo), or to help you choose between two aftershaves which you may have on those little paper sniffing strips.
Study NLP, especially stuff about reframing and modelling excellence, creating peak states.
Work with a wingman, just the fact that you have someone to prove your bavery and perform to helps a HUGE amount. Then again I'm a musician and an archetypal Magician (see Jung) so it's in my nature to be better when I have an audience.

Anyway, back to today - have been out with a friend of mine who's also doing bootcamp for a saturday afternoon session in the city centre. Got loads done so it's been v. productive.
I have ten rejections now, but only two of them is from a convo of over two minutes, so I don't really know how many of them I should count. I did quite a few "hi... are you single?" approaches. Not once have I had a negative reaction from this, but usually the interaction is about 30 seconds long and I get an "ummm... no" answer. It's amazing that when you're smiling and buoyant going into these approaches the babes usually react with a smile and a bit of awkwardness. This approach isn't a good way of starting a convo though. Once, it worked though:

I approached a middle-eastern goddess in a shopping centre with said line, she replied that yes, she was single, but when I pried about meeting up I discovered that she was moving to Dubai in two days time.We chatted for a couple of minutes, so there are exceptions to the rule always....

Another funny thing was when we were in another shopping centre, a walked by a girl handing out leaflets for a theatre/actors agency. She gave me a handout and explained what the agency does. I said that I would check it out as I am an opera singer anyway. Then I came stright out and said "Can I also have your phone number?" She didn't hesitate and pulled out her card and gave it to me.
It was AFTER this that I chatted with her about what she does (musical singer) for a few minutes - we even know some of the same people. Great practice - doubt if I'll ring her though... she was a short, cuddly 5 maybe.

I got another batch of 'are you single?' rejections after this, opened an older lady in a cafe queue and talked to her about how it was self-flaggelation coming into the city centre on a saturday afternoon, opened a HB5 (40ish) sitting on her own in the cafe too, and chatted to her for a couple of minutes. She started playing with her hair and fluttering her eyes at me, but I excused myself and exited as I was just practicing and had no interest in getting her number.

Approached a Thai girl HB7.5 working at a thai fastfood place southside and asked her immediately if she would like to go out some time as she had a nice energy. We chatted for a while and she was trying to think of when we should meet. We had an older woman she was working with as audience who kept looking over and smiling, and another Thai girl sitting there eating, but I plowed ahead anyway. In the end the girl let her morals get the better of her I think, and said that she was working EVERY day until 10 o' clock but that I should pop by and eat there sometime. Whatever....I'm counting that as a rejection with high IL.

So I am on ten or more rejections altogether, but only 2 or 3 if the two minute convo rule counts. I should still carry on with week 4 I think, as I need more numbers to play with before I can embark on week 5.

Oh, yeah - took the russian girl out for wine on thursday evening. She is very sweet and only 23, but I'm going to have to pass on her because she smokes like a chimney and has severe smokers breath (uggh!) and she is v. flat chested (used to be a gymnast) and I like my women with CURVES.

So..... onwards and upwards. My goal for the coming week is to do at least two approaches per day, and engage them in longer convos.

 

[DoubleD]

Ok.. so what happened to getting the digits!!?!?!

Ledgendary mantra! Inspirational stuff... I've had a weird couple of last days... haven't felt very positive and haven't really felt like going out but ended up out Thursday and Friday.. ok tonight I'm staying in.. but its not even midnight and I'm falling asleep.. so i really better rest. Anyway.. thursday went out with a girl that has a fiancee.. we start at this place and she is rubbing my leg and totally kinoing me.. I'm just sitting back taking it and having a good tme. (Mind you when I walked in I was feeling ****ty and couldn't be bothered being there.. but whatever.. i went ahead and my mood improved and changed towards my "fake" mood. After about an hour her fiancee rocks up. He's as tall as me.. (i'm 195cms) shaved head and you can tell he's ****ing pissed off. So I start chatting to him and after about 15 mins had him laughing and having a good time to. (by this stage I decide that I'm not going to persure this girl.. but rather she can be a friend that hooks me up with her friends.. fine by me).. night ends.. we all say goodbye and I head back to the train station. On the metro on the way to the train station I sit next to a girl and just open her. She responds well and is really friendly... (she is there with a group of about 5 girls).. I arrive at my stop and say it was a pleasure meeting her and take off.. I realise she is hoping I # close her but for some reason don't. I open a girl waiting at the train station.. with just some fluff talk.. talk to her for around 5 mins and then she leaves cause her friends arrive. (didn't close). I get on the train and I chat with some swiss guy about some business for a couple of stops. Get to my next station and as my next train arrives see two blondes looking at me so i jump on the train and sit next to them saying "hey" as I sit down.. Anyway they say "sorry no italian" so i kick off in english and start just chatting... findout they are getting off my stop and that they know of a club etc. that is really good in my area. (like an idiot... i don't number close.. even though they gave me a perfect opportunity) They were two swedish girls actually One is working here as a nanny and her HB friend was just visiting her for a little while.. anyway was stupid not to have number closed.. was i tired?? I really dunno. I also had two AFCs on the train next to me who were trying to get in on the convo.. so i helped them a little but the girls were ognoring them..

Anyway.. friday night I was supposed to go to a party that got canned so went to my latin american class instead. Night was fun and at the end I said to the whole group.. ok everyone give me your email and mobiles so that we can arrange stuff.. LOL biggest number close I've ever done.. hahah.. anyway they all wrote them down (including HB Latin Teacher... hmmm remember her?? ) Then we all decided to go to a latin club.. I agreed to join them as I didn't feel like solo sarging (again was feeling negative) . Anyway went to the club and as soon as I walked in spotted 2 HBs standing at the bar. I pass them say hi to the group drop off my jacket and go immediatly back and open the two girls. I encourage them to join me for a dance that I can take them dancing.. LOL (bad idea.. 4 lessons.. i got no cluse) Anyway hotter bod say "no.. i'm not dancing" Which was fine because I had told her I'll hook you up with a friend that knows how to dance really well.. oh well.. I take the other HB on the dancefloor and realize i only know the basic steps.. this gets boring after about 30 seconds.. so I just improvise and do **** that I'm sure was totally out of time.. **** Mantra.. how long it take you to get good at this stuff.. whatever.. I go back to some couches with the HB and start chatting to them.. there is 3rd Ugly friend sitting there.. she opens me with "do I know you?".. weird. Anyway chat to them for a while but see that its going cold so just say "pleasure meeting you all.. but i gotta get back to my friends" again no number close!! ****!! Whats up?? I decide that I'm going to stick to my chatting game rather than dancing game.. next target is teacher..

Teacher sits couches opposite me and I open her. I lean back she is leaning forward.. I pretend that I can't hear her and she moves and sits next to me.. (too easy). We chat about all sorts of stuff.. her dreams, passions etc.. and I try and move the conversation onto sex.. she goes bright red in the face when I suggest that I sell adult toys and I back up a little to give her some breathing room.. all the while teasing her about her new sunburn. I am kinoing her slightly and she is responding well. I find out she is 35 and still lives at home. (normal for these parts.. but hmmm sexually she can't be too developed). Actually you guys would love this girl.. face could be a lot cuter.. but body wise its just.. perfect for lack of a better word.. curvey and not fat.. large breasts and tight ass.. hmmmm.. anyway tekk talking to her and she comments on how i'm different and she noticed that as soon as I walked in I hit on the two girls... but says I did it in a nice way not just a "i wanna **** you" way. I try to move to sex again by saying we all enjoy sex.. but she clams up again and I have to back up again. Anyway.. another AFC from the class arrives and says "you have to make me dance" so he whisks her up and and goes dancing. Me.. deciding that I'd better show her I don't need her spot a three set not too far away and go for an approach.. The set rund fine.. but I am really just running the set for the sake of running it. One girl is HOT her two friends are **** blockers... I tell them all sorts of stories and move onto magic, spirit and esp.. whatever.. it was weird.. I can tell that one of them is pissed at me.. and the other two are curious and enteretained. Esp. The hotter one.. great! .. (oh.. get this 2 AFCs from my class come up and try to take two of them away with a "you're not letting this guy seduce you are you? Do you want to dance??" lol idiots) The two that were interested just snubbed them and the **** Block that is pissed at me accepts.. THANK YOU GOD! But Do i do anything?? NO! Dunno what was up with me again.. no # close.. So I carry on till the music stops and the lights come on.. the HB is smiling brushing hair.... all is good.. **** block is back.. anyway they say "see you next time" and I don't close and I walk back to my group. FFS.. I really don't know what was up with me.

Finally today I went out with a new mASF guy that I met through PAIR. Funny guy but definatly interesting. Did street pickup for about 1hr with him and was funny/weird to hear all the canned stuff being tried. Stop girls on street.. "hey can I ask you an opionion".. "hey are you friendly".. "are you girls worth knowing" This guy also uses NLP.. which I had never heard before.. so was diferent. Even got to open an english set on two tourists. All in all sucess wise we had nothing.. but he is a new wing so we'll give it time... was a new perspective on things though... to walk down the road "hunting" for targets to open with whatever.

After that left and took the train home again. On the metro saw this girl jump on just in time so opened her with "wow.. wheres the cameras shooting your movie.. it was like the train was made for you" She laughed and we chatted for a bit.. and guess what.. i didn't # close.. even though I know she wanted me to. From there train and nothing untill the very last station. I walk on the train and see this very HB sitting alone(walkman in ears). So i sit infront of her and ask her "hey, are you religious?" HHAHAHAHA.. i dunno where that came from... but it worked like a treat. In one stop (about 5 mins) I establish rapport.. find out she's 19.. YUM! and walk with her off the train. On the platform she asks some question and I say thats a long story.. and yes.. finally.. after the last few days I number close and kiss her on the cheeks. LOL.. what an adventure. I don't know why I didn't number close all those other people. But I do know that the 19 y/o was the hottest of them all and unlike the others I really did want to see her again. (So I thought it as ok.. this will either be a valid rejection or a valid number close) My main task is still to work on more rejections.... yeah.. i know.. I've been saying it for weeks. I think I should take a page out of Mantras book do a day sarge and just hit all girls with "hey.. you single?" And # close. If that doesn't work i'm moving to week 5!

Its just gone midnight.. and I could head out to do more.. hmmm and I am kicking myself a little that I'm not going. I mean I am tired.. but you guys know what its like.. what do you guys do in these situations?

DD

...Sunday...
Just thought I'd add.. just went out with a new HB tonight took her to a happy hour place. Chatted and was building good rapport.. Then I started moving topic to sexual types and was getting her hot. then asked her if she smoked.. then said.. hmm so your kiss will taste good. Then I just said "do you want to kiss me?" at which point she started acting real uneasy.. moved towards her and kissed. (she did not resist at all and was very happy to oblidge) but this girl just couldn't kiss!!! I mean she was licking not kissing.. was sooo funny.. 1st time I've kissed a girl that just couldn't kiss. Am still laughing and thought I'd share it with you all. LICK LICK! LOL.. calm down girl. Anyway was fun.

 

[dj2l8]

Week 2...fini!

Hello my brothers,

Well, I'm back from my 3 weeks in the states. Just long enough to watch 54 million of my fellow americans tell the rest of the world to screw off with their vote. Not to mention the environment, the deficit...ah never mind, back to Djing.

Well Mantra, good show! So can you explain more about the rejections? Was it usually this?

"Are you single?"
"No"

Counted as a rej. or was it:

"Are you single?"
"Yes"
"Wanna get together?"
"No"

Seems like the latter is what your after...let us know how you did it...details are good. Nice show on the Russian. Too bad about the smoke though.

DoubleD, major escapades. Truly amazing. It's really hard to believe that you didn't number close...I think you're still low on fluids from the weeks earlier. Ha ha ha. Your motivation is down.

Traveller, do not get discouraged. This stuff is hard...but keep with it. Think you feel pathetic? Read my previous posts...that's an order dammit!

Ok, now for some good news. I have finally finished Week 2. (like 5 weeks total time). The last came from 3 openers I did this past week. One was a girl I saddled up next to at a bar it Pittsburgh (The World, went to Skinny Puppy show)...I think I opened with "Cool purse" or something like that...as it was all ricked out. While attending this big conference, I opened a 4 set with 2 6's in it...2 guys...my first opener...started asking about what was around the area and stuff...the girls where eating it and the guys dug it too...all were computer folks so my game went a long way. The last was a cutie at a social event, say a 7. I walked up next to her and made a remark about this lame event we were at...actually I tried twice. The first time I leaned in and said something, but her head was turned and she didn't hear it. Doh! Felt like high school....but I tried again and got it. She mentioned where she and her friend were going afterwards, was kinda wierd. Was this an invite? Anyways, I said, maybe I'll see you there...and went on.

So, I've finally finished week 2 thanks to good old fashioned american girls. Sweden seems mightly icey now.

I've got to continue with the hellos and the convos. My next step is to make an actual APPROACH. As I mentioned, these were sort of sneak attacks. Either me sitting next to them or getting up beside them for a bit. There was no directness involved. I'd like to make that confident james-bond approach I've seen Mantra do so many times.

I think I'd like to start getting some canned openers...not pick ups, just openers. I think that will help reduce the uncertainty. Hey DD, can you start posting what you open with? This should go for all of you. POST YOUR OPENERS.

I'd love to have a 12 pack of openers I can use for the common scenarios:

1) Across the bar
2) On the train/bus
3) Sitting alone in a cafe
4) Shopping in a cafe

Maybe I'll start digging through here and see if I can come up with some.

Again, I like the "Are you friendly?" but yes, no questions aren't a good place to start. I need something that's going to give me a thread to work with.

Ok, now a question I have yet to answer. What the hell is Fluff talk and how is it different than rapport?

Phil

 

[DoubleD]

Hey DJ2L8.. all good man! Nice progress just keep things going. I'm having a stressful work week and not getting much done but the weekend is around the corner I'll be able to have some fun then. Actually i think the stars are against me.. I decided to head to the mall today just before lunch to at least open 1 women with the "Are you single" and get a rejection. I swear there was nothing above a frikkin 5.. I walked ariund the whole place looking for one! LOL As far as opneres go here is what I mainly use...

"are you friendly?"
"hi, I'm out meeting interesting peple. Are you interesting?"
"Hi, you look interesting I thought i'd come over and see what you're like"
"Hi + some comment about clothing"
"You girls looked like you weren't having a good time so i thought i'd come over and cheer you up"
AND one i've used a bit on big groups of girls
"You know.. if you all stand there like that you'll never pick up tonight!" Works well if they are all single.. if they all have Bf.. ow well you find out pretty quick and its all good.

and really whatever comes to mind.. like in my last post I opened a girl with "are you religious!" I do sort of agree with some canned stuff becuause at times brain stops but the clock keeps ticking. My default is are you friendly or just a hi.

Dunno how much that helps.. but hopefully its something! I hate to sound like a broken record but the communication is all body + tone not words. Just walk up, smile and say hi. That telegraphs instant James Bond.. then if they don't say anything say "You look interesting..... I thought i'd come over and see what you're like." I mean you can have the coolest line but if you don't walk up with coolness about you and good tone.. no line will work. Unless she's physically into you anyway. So maybe as a test just wheese really nasally to a girl.. "Hi I think you're really hot" and if she's all happpy with you deepen your voice and take her home there and then.. hahahah

Being serious again.. I have noticed that there are two types of women.. Ones that are HOT and are used to being supplicated (so you have to treat them by busting their balls and not flirting directly) and ones that are AVERAGE and will take well to compliments and being "nice" as long as you still progress and push the physical. The ones that are UGLY i'd leave alone.. they are weird... some react as if they are HOT and some react as if they are way below average there is no clear pattern with them. Anyway what do you want to get to know UGLY chick for? Her friends?

Beyond openers I'd really not go any furthur.. there is a risk of routine dependancy... and when you run out of routines you'll just go blank. I personally have blank nights and I just shoot off watever passes through my head. I get some real funny looks at times.. Ie: Was chatting up two girls the other day and told them I was a male hand model and that I wanted their opinion on what colour I should paint my nails. The model ideal popped into my head because I am in Milan.. the nail thing was because I was chatting to them infront of a nail studio.. so whatever... as long as you hold your frame. Confidence, composure and power. Ok.. enough outta me before I start sounding like a self help nutter! Peace bros!

 

[traveller]

Hello my friends!
Sorry to post so rarely but first it is a big problem for me to write in English and second your pick-up level is much higher than mine, though I am the oldest of the group...
Well as you should guess I choked many, many times those last 10 days. Anyway I opened 2 foreign girls (6-6.5, the first a russian and the second a chinese a week later) in the same bookshop and in the same sector with the same opener : " the choice is small here" ( it is a mall's bookshop).
I talked 2 minutes with the russian. She was married but anyway gave me her e-mail. I wrote 2 days later but she didn't answer. I had a real convo with the chinese. We even had a coffee together for half an hour. Everything went fine (she gave e-mail + phone number) until I made the huge mistake to ask her when she will come back in Geneva ( she is studying in another city). She didn't know and I insisted and I could felt how she changed her mind towards me. I became needy at her eyes and she finally said that
she had exams, she comes back rarely and just to meet her parents... And I should add that I didn't have the guts to play kino either. Anyway it is the confirmation of the importance of field experience for me. I think that all the golden posts of this forum are fully understood on the field only. That is why I feel so miserable about the fact to choke so many times every day.
I understand you fully DJdl8. Openers are a big problem for me too when you don't find anything special to talk to which represent 99.99 % of the situations I meet. For example today in another bookshop I saw a 10+ HB. AT my surprise She didn't seem too arrogant. She noticed me staring at her. She even touched her hairs when she passed near me but I didn't do anything! What opener would you suggest in this situation? I was completely speechless.
2 hours later in the train there was a 9.5++ teenager( maybe 16-17 years old). She sat 15 minutes near me (on a nearby bench) and she looked at me so many times. It is rather exceptional because young chicks are usually very arrogant in Geneva, even the ugly ones. In most of the case I am completely invisible but this one looked with a real insistence. I know it means nothing sometimes, maybe it would have been a big turn off but anyway I feel that I should have tried something!! Of course my excuse was her age but anyway she was more than attractive I must admit! What would you guys have done at my place?
My aim now is to do 3 cold approaches a day but as I already said openers are a very big obstacle for me. Direct and opinion openers are probably the best. The 3 seconds rule is without any doubt the only condition to solve once and for all this absurd fear of approaching. But this rule is so hard to apply...

 

[Ricky]

Guys I have had an interesting month. The boot camp isn't an issue because I hit on every girl I meet.

However, I was dating a great girl and kind of continue too, but she blew me away with some personal baggage on Saturday. It sucked.

Now my ex wants to get back with me.

I'm so busy with grad school that I almost want to take a break from going out altogether just so I can finish up some things.

One really quick question though...

Do you guys ever feel greedy after going out with a couple of girls at one time and actually hold back on hitting on more? Because this is kind of an issue I've had before.

I really dont have the time to go out with 3 girls a week. I know that sounds lame, but really it's true.

 

[jakethasnake]

LOL! Too funny....

Bro.... no offense to you, but you are in SWEDEN, the land of a hundred thousand beautiful Nordic Blondes that are known the world-over, and you're hitting on some "Oriental shop assistant"? I want to commend you on your courage to take charge, but I think it's corny for you to focus/prey on vulnerable immigrants when you could be mackin' it to some of the hottest women in the world - SWEDISH WOMEN. Man, if I were your next door neighbor I'd be laughing all the back to the bedroom of a Swedish blonde, while you're trying to pick up cooks and waitresses at Chinese restaurants.


I have this theory that only men who have no game to speak of prey solely on East Asian targets. Two reasons:


1) They have a cultural superiority complex - the notion that Asian women are desperate for a white husband to take them away from their war-torn lands is still fresh on the minds of many non-Asian men. It's utter bullshyt and nonsense, but it's there.


2) Asian culture is AFC, so Asian women are naturally easier prey. They are easier to amuse, to impress.



... therefore I think it is perfectly reasonable to say that a significant proportion of white guys who focus mainly or entirely on Asian women are more or less Elmer Fudds, and not Brad Pitts.

Originally posted by Mantra
Ok....got my first rejection for week4 today, but minus a two min convo.

I walked around for over an hour before finally walking up to a girl and saying something. I even fired off a few blind hellos at people I walked past on the street to try to get me warmed up, and after a while I decided that I would NOT go home until I had hit on at least one woman.

I had been listening to an excellent interview in DeAngelo's series with a psychologist called Doctor Paul. He suggested that confidence is created through acts of courage, which in turn are dependent upon the level of anxiety you have to face.

Let's put it this way....
If you were for example to say that approaching hot blonde A that you get in you sights would create 40 units of anxiety, then it would take 40 units of courage to approach and open her. REGARDLESS of the outcome the payoff is 40 units of confidence for you which you can then store in your inner core of mature masculine energy. I think that this is a fantastic model because it is one of self-development, and you can only win. Every approach is increasing you confidence energy, strengthening your core. He also suggests keeping a tally of these points you pick up. Of course, the more difficult the situation, the more anxiety points are to play for. It's all a win-win game.

Anyway, I was in one of Stockholm's biggest department stores, had already choked a couple of good approaches, when I saw an attractive little oriental shop assistant (HB7.5) going to hang some clothes up in the man's fashion section. I wanted to try out the " hello, are you single?" approach, and as Dr Paul suggested, see the whole thing as an experiment. Went as follows,
Mantra "Hello, do you work here?"
HB "Yes"
Mantra "Can I ask you a question?"
HB "Yes, sure"
Mantra "Are you single?"
HB "hmmmm, (smile) no"
Mantra "I just thought you looked sweet so thought I would check" END

She was bright red when I bailed, and I had a feeling she was single, but my confidence was not really on so my game was pretty absent. Oh my god, when I read that convo, it is WAY too AFC on my behalf. Man I should have chuckled at her and called her on her hesitancy about saying she wasn't single, but, hey, everything is a learning.

OK... that cost me 20 anxiety points, so I duly stored my 20 points of confidence in my core anyway after the interaction. Felt GOOOD!

Traied to open a chinese girl in the supermarket queue on my way home who was buying a six-pack with "So, party-time tonight is it?" At which she looked confused, and then giggled and said "Oh...no" but I don't think she really understood the lingo. I dropped off though, I should have persevered. She was about a 7, and, man, I'm really developing a taste for asians.

So, what I need to work on is follow up game...I have a tendency to not continue with conversation after I've opened them, but really to chat a bit there is something I' know I'm pretty good at.
I'll keep you posted chaps.
When are you getting back to Stockholm dj2l8? We must go on another bootie-mission, this time with the emphasis on experimentation, wild approaches etc..... remember, I'm off to Oz on the 24th of Nov.
I know you've got it in you, you are the man at humour and conversing.

 

[Mantra]

HAahaha Jake.... too funny man!
You really shouldn't jump to conclusions man.... I have been with a fair few swedish women in my time and I also happen to find Asian women very beautiful.

What you have no idea of is the cultural context of the shop-assistant girl I approached. She was a Swede, yes, that's right, a Swede. She spoke perfect swedish and had obviously lived here most, if not all of her life. The other one, the waitress, well, let's just say that I wasn't really aiming to pick her up..... a lot of Boot Camp is about practice. I would be totally bored if EVERY woman I approached was a typical swedish blonde. I'm aiming to be great in all situations and with all types of women. I happen to find asian women enticing, feminine and beautiful.

Yes, there are newly relocated Asians in Sweden, but also a hell of a lot of second generation Asians whose parents came here or were adopted at a very young age. The hot ones have, often, exactly the same *****-shields up attitude as the most beautiful swedish girls. They are fully culturally integrated and often hang with the same groups, at least the city-centre dwellers.

Also, you're right, I don't have HUGE amounts of game, but that's why I'm doing Boot Camp and trying to improve. 80% of the women I approach are typical swedish women, some hot, some not, but it's always interesting.

There is nothing that interests me less than finding a woman who needs to be saved from East Asian poverty, mental problems or anything else that you say many men prey on.

So good luck to you, Brad!

 

[jakethasnake]

Originally posted by Mantra
HAahaha Jake.... too funny man!
You really shouldn't jump to conclusions man.... I have been with a fair few swedish women in my time and I also happen to find Asian women very beautiful.

What you have no idea of is the cultural context of the shop-assistant girl I approached. She was a Swede, yes, that's right, a Swede. She spoke perfect swedish and had obviously lived here most, if not all of her life. The other one, the waitress, well, let's just say that I wasn't really aiming to pick her up..... a lot of Boot Camp is about practice. I would be totally bored if EVERY woman I approached was a typical swedish blonde. I'm aiming to be great in all situations and with all types of women. I happen to find asian women enticing, feminine and beautiful.

Yes, there are newly relocated Asians in Sweden, but also a hell of a lot of second generation Asians whose parents came here or were adopted at a very young age. The hot ones have, often, exactly the same *****-shields up attitude as the most beautiful swedish girls. They are fully culturally integrated and often hang with the same groups, at least the city-centre dwellers.

Also, you're right, I don't have HUGE amounts of game, but that's why I'm doing Boot Camp and trying to improve. 80% of the women I approach are typical swedish women, some hot, some not, but it's always interesting.

There is nothing that interests me less than finding a woman who needs to be saved from East Asian poverty, mental problems or anything else that you say many men prey on.

So good luck to you, Brad!

Okay Elmer. I'll take your word for it.

 

[DoubleD]

Cmon Jake.. WTF man... I went through yellow fever myself a little while ago.. (but lost it pretty quick cause no HOT asians in Italy) whatever.... game what you like. I agree with Mantra about asian women.. they aren't AFC they seem to be the only women that are still classy and have a certain level of social standard left. They are generally well poised etc. (PS: These chicks turn into monsters in the bedroom and thats the best thing of all.. this little poised cultured cutie that just screaming and loving it.. hmmmm) I remember when I was on hols with my buddy and we'd look at a two set and he'd always pick the other one. It was awesome that we had different taste. And we both got what we wanted! Mantra keep your game on and don't worry about other crap. Boot camp is a total learning experience and an eye opener.. and if your one of those people that I sometimes become who looks for a HOT woman to open fact is you get bugger all practise. Boot camp is like concentrating what you'd normally pick up in a year in a few weeks.. **** for some of us i'm sure that we've done more approaches and hits on BC than ever before!

Traveller for the HB in the bookstore just say Hey, what are you reading? or Hey you read any good "SECTION SHE'S IN" books recently? Of course adapt it a little.. if she's in management ask if she can reccomend anything that would be good for bla bla bla cause thinking of getting new job and need to skill up on it. Or getting into stocks.. psychology - deal with your mother who is getting older? Travel - good books on India because you feel a spiritual calling to go there and check it out...have you been? If she is friendly she'll talk to you, if she's single she may be interested in you.. and if you act coherrant and the previous two occur she'll probably want to see you again. Or if she's paranoid, taken or just rude she'll maybe give you a "look" and walk off. (Ouch.. how painfull that evil eye.) I mean if you look at it like that why not approach? At best you get exactly what you wanted.. at worse you'll get a funny look. Its maths.. and its worth it.

I was out with a mate recently who opened a chick at a bookstore with something like "isn't it weird how they put these pictures on the front of books to get you interested even though it may have nothing to do with whats inside? And the pictures draw you in to read the book" It was a NLP opener and she took poorly to it.. looked at him funny and went "yeah.." and started walking off. He was fine after that .. i didn't care and no one else in the bookstore gave a **** either.

Besides with every interaction you grow stronger in your game and in what to say and how to approach so just keep doing it no matter what!

I know what you mean about the 16-17 y.o When a girl looks young I tend to ask her fairly quickly "how old are you" and if she's under 18 I tend to chat a bit more but keep away from sex and I don't number close.. well not since I was 16-17 hahaha If you really wanted to open her go with something like "Are you lost? Did you lose your mummy and daddy?" Or something just as stupid. Then play on her more like if she's there to buy barbies. Then ask ok.. how old are you? If she's under age.. i'll leave it to you...Or maybe ask her what her mum looks like? HHAHAH

One more thing i think a lot of guys forget is physical apperacne. Try to look good. I agree that there are women for every look.. but whatever your style make it good. You want to look like a classical dude make sure you do it well not with a purple sweater and white shoes. If you are balding go to a fancy hairdresser and get their opinion. (Don't pay for the haircut there just get their ideas.) If they think shorter... shaved.. whatever.. but do stuff about your appearance. If you got some large birthmark on your face or something consider using some foundation. You don't need to look like Brad Pitt but you do need to look your best. And by looking your best you'll react better too.

Thats my 2cents.. I'm off to my latin class.. dunno why.. i got all their numbers anyway.. LOL but might as well go and head out after cya Djs!

 

[jakethasnake]

Fvcking Bull****.

Originally posted by DoubleD
Cmon Jake.. WTF man... I went through yellow fever myself a little while ago.. (but lost it pretty quick cause no HOT asians in Italy) whatever.... game what you like. I agree with Mantra about asian women.. they aren't AFC they seem to be the only women that are still classy and have a certain level of social standard left. They are generally well poised etc. (PS: These chicks turn into monsters in the bedroom and thats the best thing of all.. this little poised cultured cutie that just screaming and loving it.. hmmmm)

Just read what you wrote. You are openly admitting to having 'yellow fever' as if that were something to be proud of. Fvcking disgusting. That is the creepiest racist, Asiaphile bullshyt I have ever read. Self-respecting Asians cannot respect a man like you - what you say is akin to liking black women because you have jungle sex-savage fantasies. It's offensive. If Asian women were just as outspoken and direct as western/white women, would you still be attracted, probably not as much. You do not understand your own subliminal motivations, which are hinged on sexism and sublte racism (the benign kind borne from ignorance, not the violence, malicious kind).



And as for "classy" - you just have no idea, do you. You clueless white man. Asian nations like Japan, Taiwan and Korea are just as industrialized as 95% of European nations, and because of this modernization (essentially, Westernization), the social mores and values of Asia are changing. Virgins are almost undheard of these days, and just to quote a figure, the divorce rate in Korea is over 60%. That's right - the divorce rate is even higher than America. You have some very ignorant notions of what constitutes the Asian people - and usually people like you only have concern for the women - you would not give a shyte if Asian men were boiled alive in a giant cauldron. As long as you get the Asian gash/puzzy, you're cool. That is racist, and fvcked up - you should be ashamed of yourself, admitting your racism (it's interchangeable with IGNORANCE, in your case) so openly, as if it were a badge of pride.



Forgive me if I sound angry, but I have to vent every once in a while. I have no problem with white guys who date Asian women and are respectful to ALL Asians (and not just Asian bytches because they want to hit the puzzy), but ignorance like that makes me want to snap an Asiaphile neck or two. I have to deal with ignorance all the fvcking time, being a yellow man in the West. And feel free to explain yourself if you wish to do so.