Are Dating Apps really that bad right now

[jamesfromhouston]

I wonder if the RP / SS community came together to design and create a dating app, how that app would be like?

I wonder how different it would be from Bumble/Tinder/Hinge/CMB.

In my opinion, Bumble was the closest to being aligned with some elements of RP ideas; having the ladies start the first message, helped in weeding out low IL women. Of course 99% of men, are too BP to realize it.

 

[sevbucmash]

@jamesfromhouston dating app = singles bar. Anyway you spin it, fat girl and shy guy won't get laid.

I guess you'd call the app shagshack, and do face verification, allowing only pictures through phone camera taken live as a selfie. No fee 90 days. Men & women would be presented with a selection of 10 choices, absolutely random, not based on interests, so long as they weren't presented with same choices before. To see the next 10, man would have to message at least 1 girl and get a response. For a woman, to see the next 10, she'd have to reply and strike a conversation with at least 1 man that messaged her. There is going to be chat Ai that determines if conversation has taken place or it was some BS mutterings.

 

[SW15]

Bumble was the closest to being aligned with some elements of RP ideas; having the ladies start the first message, helped in weeding out low IL women. Of course 99% of men, are too BP to realize it.

I have mixed feelings about how that played out in reality.

Women who make the first move would be more like to be feminist and lacking in appealing feminine traits. Bumble also has advertised itself towards the "Girl Boss" types over the years as well.

The first moves that most women made on Bumble tended to be low effort, such as sending silly gifs and typing two letters of "Hi". Sometimes they might do "Hi First Name".

dating app = singles bar.

In the decades before dating websites got de-stigmatized and then dating apps popped up, singles starting interactions in bars was quite common. I'd say this era went from the mid-1960s to the mid/late-2000s. For a lot of single people, bars/nightlife venues were their primary option in the absence of tech-based methods or the lack of a social circle.

The bar scene still exists for singles. Singles starting interactions at bars has been declining for the past 15-20 years though.

Bars have been evolving. A lot of bars now are hosting app arranged first and second dates.

 

[GoodMan32]

There's nothing unique to dating apps that sets them apart from the current trends of the dating market. The current dating market is itself imploding because of feminism and mass female delusion which itself is from social media far more than dating apps. Social media is to blame for this more than OLD; OLD is just a reflection of the dating market. Any problems you see in OLD are just as real as they are in the real world, but for some reason refuse to see it.

Anyone who thinks the dating market is fine and OLD is the problem is completely out of touch. Does no one remember that OLD has been around for almost 30 years? Back in the 00s it was nothing like it is now, because social media hadn't taken over yet. Social media + feminism is the problem with the dating market, period.



It's only a huge time sink if you have no vetting strategies. Tinder is 100% a waste of time though. But let me explain my Hinge process:

95% of my conversations on Hinge are initiated by the woman. I literally never swipe right on women until she's swiped right on me first. On Hinge, if someone swipes right on you, it shows up in your list of "likes" in a queue, and you can choose to reject or match with them (left vs right swipe), which is why I love Hinge.

Once we start talking, I screen them asap for compliance and interest, compatibility, and then give them my number to text me usually fairly quickly. Once they text me I push for a date, but if they show any sign of flakey/fickleness/or act "busy" I stop talking to them.

I really do put in minimal effort. I just don't think most people (men or women) have learned how to filter out only the most high IL/high quality options, because they don't realize how much time and irritation this saves you.

Good point about social media.

A lot of broads act shocked when they find out I don't use social media.

On the other hand, men really don't give a damn (or find it strange) that I don't use social media.

It all makes sense now: Because broads use social media for validation. That's why they have a hard time fathoming why anyone would be without social media.

 

[GoodMan32]

Guys miss the whole point

for girls, in the very vast majority of cases, is more important to be validated than actually date a guy. This happens because most of them are very insecure about themselves

most of girls without makeup look way different, in a bad way, and they know this and this is why they are very insecure about their looks

that is why dating apps have a very low ROI, because they are just there to be validated and they are not that serious about getting laid / looking for a relationship, unless the guy is really top and it becomes too much an opportunity to miss it out

cold approach > dating apps

The best ROI you have is when you have some sort of a lose social game, like for example going to places that are popular and you start to know the people there, and basically are a regular

That would explain why the only dates I got from OkCupid, POF, and DateHookup were fat, strange, or both.

Any broad who has it going on isn't going to meet up with a guy like me from one of those sites.

 

[GoodMan32]

I’ve seen guys literally get their asses beat at parties because they approached the wrong girl or came out as creepy approaching women and they told the guys.

In that case, good thing I never attended a single high school or college party.

 

[GoodMan32]

Which is why it's so important to exercise your mind and not just your body.

And, again, why the focus of this board should be teaching about real life interaction with women in a way that you don't get into these situations. Not for guidance on how to manipulate manipulative people on dating apps.

I know you think I'm not even worthy of your teaching.

But I'm going to take a minute to point out the fact an autist is always going to be at a marked disadvantage at interacting with broads. Because even though we can learn the basics, our social instinct simply isn't there. So there inevitably will be scenarios we'll never be prepared for.

Plus, approaching a broad in a "creepy" manner is only one scenario he mentioned. He also mentioned the scenario of approaching the "wrong" broad (I take that to mean a taken broad). Even a neurotypical isn't going to know off the top of his head if a broad at a party is taken (unless he knows her...or unless he sees her and a boyfriend together at the party)

 

[GoodMan32]

My online dating app rejection rate was huge compared to daygame - roughly speaking 6 times higher - morale of the story is real life always counts for something and as someone who met his girlfriend from daygame I can’t stress enough the importance of putting yourself out there consistently and not being a slave to an algorithm

The last woman I had free sex with (I met her offline) certainly looked a lot better than the 8 month girlfriend I got from POF. You're probably right.

 

[GoodMan32]

You can also get struck by lightning during a rainstorm.

Piss poor analogy.

Doing something "wrong" when approaching a broad is far more likely.

 

[GoodMan32]

The thing about making a solid approach is to not directly ask a woman for the horizontal mambo.
I know that runs counter to the DJs here who think direct approaches work better than indirect, but I tend to do neither. How I interact with a woman depends on the interaction. Socially calibrated men don't just start talking about sex and intimacy, they wait to escalate with sex talk until the woman shows clear signs she's sexually interested.

When you are a sexual person, women can 'smell' it on you and they already figure why you are talking to them. Experienced versatile lovers are rare and women will instantly know when they're in their presence. It shows most often in what is often called 'confidence', these people are comfortable in their skin, move leisurely, radiate calmness and alert detached observation.

One of the reasons I don't get 'rejected' is because I don't show my cards until she shows hers. I won't escalate the conversation sexually before she does. When she shows sexual interest, I will tease her with innuendo, but I'm not eager to engage, so they have to put some effort into getting my attention and (sexual) validation.

So when a woman falters in conversation and I lose sexual interest in her, I just don't escalate, even if she does. And if she does I can signal non-interest without 'rejecting' her directly. And if she doesn't escalate, she's either not into me and/or already taken with someone she doesn't want to cheat on.

So, I don't have to know whether the woman I interact with is seriously involved with another man. Either she's interested and escalate by sending me signals that I can escalate too, or she isn't interested for whatever reason.

In that case, there have probably been instances where a broad thought I was signaling non-interest (because I failed to escalate), when really I merely wasn't aware the broad was into me.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I doubt it, because you're not a chick magnet like @Hamurabimbi

I wish.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

The thing about making a solid approach is to not directly ask a woman for the horizontal mambo.
I know that runs counter to the DJs here who think direct approaches work better than indirect, but I tend to do neither. How I interact with a woman depends on the interaction. Socially calibrated men don't just start talking about sex and intimacy, they wait to escalate with sex talk until the woman shows clear signs she's sexually interested.

When you are a sexual person, women can 'smell' it on you and they already figure why you are talking to them. Experienced versatile lovers are rare and women will instantly know when they're in their presence. It shows most often in what is often called 'confidence', these people are comfortable in their skin, move leisurely, radiate calmness and alert detached observation.

One of the reasons I don't get 'rejected' is because I don't show my cards until she shows hers. I won't escalate the conversation sexually before she does. When she shows sexual interest, I will tease her with innuendo, but I'm not eager to engage, so they have to put some effort into getting my attention and (sexual) validation.

So when a woman falters in conversation and I lose sexual interest in her, I just don't escalate, even if she does. And if she does I can signal non-interest without 'rejecting' her directly. And if she doesn't escalate, she's either not into me and/or already taken with someone she doesn't want to cheat on.

So, I don't have to know whether the woman I interact with is seriously involved with another man. Either she's interested and escalate by sending me signals that I can escalate too, or she isn't interested for whatever reason.

This.
I was on the subway last week and saw a girl who was pure, raw sex. She looked like she could fvck someone in half. She was pretty 6-7/10. But it was the primal sexuality she gave off that was overwhelming.

 

[Gamisch]

Dating apps are hyper efficient for a small percentage of men. It's possible that you are part of that small percentage.

For many men (and not even the top tier men), there is an illusion of efficiency in apps. It's easy to believe in this efficiency in using tech-based date arranging methods. Many men are sitting at home in their underwear/comfortable clothing and doing the swiping/messaging. Doing this starts to look really good if you do something like go to the mall, 1-2 grocery stores, or outdoors for 1-3 hours and don't arrange any dates.

There is an appeal in the idea of sitting at home and arranging dates. This trend emerged in the 2010s prior to the pandemic but pandemic lockdowns bolstered this. 1980s-1990s born people have been more tech dependent and not that excited about doing real world things.

You were speaking about effort, not efficiency. And yes, there is an illusion of efficiency. "Look, I'm going to take a dump anyway, might as well use that time efficiently by checking profiles on Tinder." No mention here of whose profiles you are perusing, since everybody pretends to be something they're not, plus most of the women aren't the people you'd really want to date.
The time people spend swiping and posting on social media could be spent way more efficiently, but that would require actual effort.

As to a reward for all that swiping, most men experience a cheap dopamine rush equal to reaching a new level in a computer game, so, hey, there's your 'reward'.

On this forum, the main goal shouldn't be to encourage guys to use dating apps. The reason the 'dating marketplace' is in such a bad state is because low-effort 'efficiency' seekers ended up massively embracing the dating apps to the detriment of learning how to interact with women. This forum aims to help men with dating and interacting with women. Not how to 'beat the algorithm' and 'game the app' into finding dates. Threads like these should move to Reddit.

Fcuk dating apps. Go out and talk with people. Learn how to be really social, not the social of 'social media'.

Have to read through everything, but couldn't wait to respond to this convo.

The effort he might mean is: you THINK you will just sit at home and swipe and that's it. But then...you get almost no likes. You don't wanna "power" swipe so you swipe like a good boy to not upset The Algorithm God. That hb8? Nah,left, she would never want me...* MATCH MISSED*. what? You just swiped left on your future ex wife..

So you pay..maybe those other 3 matches are equally high quality. You pay ,see who matched you and guess what? A 65 y.o bald woman and a tranny liked you.

So you "investigate " what you do wrong. You land a youtuber who will tell you the following while filling up a wipeboard: you should put in EFFORT.

You gotta be "that guy" . So you
hit the gym.
Buy new clothes.
Rent a car
Take a trip to a place you'd never go
Do something crazy like bunny jumping.
Step in the ring at 36 for the first time
(The best) hire a professional photographer who will make 1000 pictures so you can pick 2 good ones( fresh and fraud advice)

Effort effort effort. Because you see, dating guru will tell you that you can't join the conversation unless you've put I'm ALL this effort.

That's a side effect of OLD nobody talks about. Its like a party ,you have to pay for the ticket ( subscription) ,but to be a looker at the party will take MANY thousands of bucks.. it starts as swiping conveniently at home but escalates to a mission that costs you thousands and thousands of euros.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

@jamesfromhouston dating app = singles bar. Anyway you spin it, fat girl and shy guy won't get laid.

I guess you'd call the app shagshack, and do face verification, allowing only pictures through phone camera taken live as a selfie. No fee 90 days. Men & women would be presented with a selection of 10 choices, absolutely random, not based on interests, so long as they weren't presented with same choices before. To see the next 10, man would have to message at least 1 girl and get a response. For a woman, to see the next 10, she'd have to reply and strike a conversation with at least 1 man that messaged her. There is going to be chat Ai that determines if conversation has taken place or it was some BS mutterings.

This actually sounds pretty good. Making both men and women accountable and sincere in their approach towards dating.

The first moves that most women made on Bumble tended to be low effort, such as sending silly gifs and typing two letters of "Hi". Sometimes they might do "Hi First Name".

You're right. But this is how I see it: most OLD women are seeking validation rather than anything else with you. The key is to weed out those who have actual IL for you. Other OLD apps do not force women to begin the conversation except Bumble. Of course the first message does not in itself indicate IL but it does weed out those who are clearly not interested at all because IL is represented by effort on their part. It's an important funnel.

My personal approach and thought about it is this: 1) they message first, 2) I reply and immediately ask them out or exchange contacts, 3) if they respond favorably and with compliance then I know there is interest on their part. Anything else, they are just wasting time and trying to get your attention.

On other OLD apps, women never message first because they don't have to based on system design. In a situation where they are not forced to open and pursue those they're into, they usually won't. Most men will then find themselves spamming "hello's" with little result of securing anything substantial.

I personally think men should be proactive in pursuing but in the world of OLD, women are so pedestalized that it can be frustratingly ineffective. I also truly think that we should only pursue those with interest and the biggest issue with OLD is detecting and confirming interest.

But like I mentioned recently in another thread, Bumble has since changed its system, now women don't have to message first, effectively removing this important dynamic.

-

I think a good OLD app has to make it so that interest levels are consistently conveyed and detected, to separate time wasters from others and also to force women to approach online dating and online communications more sincerely rather than being pedestalized and entitled.

 

[Murk]

I'm glad I used OLD in the 2015-2019 golden years - I'm sure covid/lockdown would have been fun too, but I was nesting with my woman and that was great. Now I just hear negative opinions from my friends still on there, many jump off the apps, jump back on, never really getting the fulfilment from a solid LTR that they want. It's just a cesspit, even when I used it years ago it was just to bang on the first night, the good ones got 1-3 months. I dread to think the chaos and destruction I created for some of the women that I can't even remember now. Be safe out there boys.

 

[CornbreadFed]

That's why I don't give advice here on how to seduce women. All I can advise is to be good company. I don't need to seduce women, chase skirts or swipe on an app. I'm a social person and move in many different social circles where women enjoy being in my company. And this is what I call living in abundance, I have to decline invitations to most of the events / parties I'm invited to, and I'm very selective in becoming intimate with the women who seek my company.

Because it is all a fugazi at the end of the day. The woman is either attracted to you initially and you don't screw up, you find a ***** that doesn't give AF, or you find a girl in a bad emotional state.

 

[Solomon]

That's why I don't give advice here on how to seduce women. All I can advise is to be good company. I don't need to seduce women, chase skirts or swipe on an app. I'm a social person and move in many different social circles where women enjoy being in my company. And this is what I call living in abundance, I have to decline invitations to most of the events / parties I'm invited to, and I'm very selective in becoming intimate with the women who seek my company.

I'm the same way. This method has worked since the dawn of time, and no matter how technologically or culturally advanced we become as a society, it still works. It blows my mind that guys won't put the effort into a social circle, but you got guys approaching for 10 hours straight.

I remember in 2009 I was journaling my experience after doing nearly 500approaches realized from being in the field all the time the hottest/prettist girls were always in a social circle. I hatched a plan then to get or make myself one. The reality is there are levels in life as there are levels to obtaining women.

 

[SW15]

Other OLD apps do not force women to begin the conversation except Bumble.

But like I mentioned recently in another thread, Bumble has since changed its system, now women don't have to message first, effectively removing this important dynamic.

It's important that you've acknowledged Bumble has changed that. Women no longer have to start the conversation on it. That's going to change Bumble. I have been off of the swipe apps for years and it's been good for me to avoid the swipe apps. Bumble is likely to get as worthless as Tinder, if it isn't there already. In my most recent effort on swipe apps (many years ago), my Bumble results were best. There was also a short time on Hinge that I was getting many responses to my initial messages. The last time that I was on Hinge, all I was seeing was unattractive women.

My personal approach and thought about it is this: 1) they message first, 2) I reply and immediately ask them out or exchange contacts, 3) if they respond favorably and with compliance then I know there is interest on their part. Anything else, they are just wasting time and trying to get your attention.

There is merit in that plan.

On other OLD apps, women never message first because they don't have to based on system design. In a situation where they are not forced to open and pursue those they're into, they usually won't. Most men will then find themselves spamming "hello's" with little result of securing anything substantial.

System design is a relevant point.

With women 30+, there are plenty of examples of women barely ever approached in real life who are being pursued by hundreds of men on the app. That's a big difference between non-tech based results and tech based results.

There are women who might get one first date every 4-8 weeks based on their offline efforts having the opportunity to go on 20+ first dates in a 4-8 week period.

The abundance for women on tech methods is amazing. When a mediocre '4.5 - 5.5' range 35-40 year old is heavily pursued on apps, it skews reality.

Men are spamming because women have so much abundance.

The effort he might mean is: you THINK you will just sit at home and swipe and that's it. But then...you get almost no likes. You don't wanna "power" swipe so you swipe like a good boy to not upset The Algorithm God. That hb8? Nah,left, she would never want me...* MATCH MISSED*. what? You just swiped left on your future ex wife..

So you pay..maybe those other 3 matches are equally high quality. You pay ,see who matched you and guess what? A 65 y.o bald woman and a tranny liked you.

There's a real illusion in sitting at home in your underwear swiping and possibly in-app texting.

Poor results like these are common and psychologically negative.

(The best) hire a professional photographer who will make 1000 pictures so you can pick 2 good ones( fresh and fraud advice)

Effort effort effort. Because you see, dating guru will tell you that you can't join the conversation unless you've put I'm ALL this effort.

That's a side effect of OLD nobody talks about. Its like a party ,you have to pay for the ticket ( subscription) ,but to be a looker at the party will take MANY thousands of bucks.. it starts as swiping conveniently at home but escalates to a mission that costs you thousands and thousands of euros.

Yes, there's a lot of hidden effort.

In the past, I did a professional photo session once for my swipe app profiles. Many men will end up doing them. That's effort.

If I wanted to use swipe apps today, I'd need to do a professional photo session again.

Great point on the escalation of effort.

 

[SW15]

I'm glad I used OLD in the 2015-2019 golden years - I'm sure covid/lockdown would have been fun too, but I was nesting with my woman and that was great. Now I just hear negative opinions from my friends still on there, many jump off the apps, jump back on, never really getting the fulfilment from a solid LTR that they want. It's just a cesspit, even when I used it years ago it was just to bang on the first night, the good ones got 1-3 months. I dread to think the chaos and destruction I created for some of the women that I can't even remember now. Be safe out there boys.

2015-2019 were not golden years. It was a cesspit then. Many people don't find the LTR they want, or it takes years.

I knew one woman who I thought was a good option. I tried to seduce her through a real life method (an approach as we were in the same co-ed sports league). She is a woman who is taller than I am so she wasn't interested in me. She spent years on and off the apps trying to find someone, eventually settling with someone as she hit her mid-30s.

 

[Chow Mein]

2015-2019 were not golden years. It was a cesspit then. Many people don't find the LTR they want, or it takes years.

I knew one woman who I thought was a good option. I tried to seduce her through a real life method (an approach as we were in the same co-ed sports league). She is a woman who is taller than I am so she wasn't interested in me. She spent years on and off the apps trying to find someone, eventually settling with someone as she hit her mid-30s.

She wasn’t interested in you because of your height.