Is There a Such Thing as a Faithful/Loyal Woman?

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

ITDG, when a relation ends, it could be your fault, or hers; usually mutual. The question is what have you learned from the breakup.

Unfortunately, most learn nothing from their "mishaps," as they are too busy pointing outward rather than being thankful for the lesson.

The greatest day in my life is when I was swindled, and had to start from ground zero again. Most people will never begin to understand this.

 

[bigneil]

That goes along with studies that show that most people overestimate how good looking they are. It strikes me that if the red pill in The Matrix represented actual reality, this may be the real red pill - that you aren't as hot sh!t as you think you are. PUAs like to say things like "We're all 10s" and "Be delusionally self-confident". But I don't see how they can square the "red pill", which is supposed to be seeing reality as it is, with deluding yourself.

That doesn't mean you don't have things to offer however. I think you should be confident, although I'm not into being delusional.

Yes, my photo ratings show I barely touch 7 range so, given that I have dated 9's since 1987, I overestimated my looks big time. But it also shows that a man's photo rating means little compared to his success.

 

[bigneil]

No because I grew up in Flint, MI and when a guy is pointing a GUN at your head, the last thing I'm thinking about is a damn insurance policy!

I've looked down the barrel of three guns, two silver pistols held by police, and one a black handgun held by a robber. It puts things in perspective, as does accidentally setting off explosives. Someone up there likes me.

 

[9Volt]

Perhaps I am retaking the red pill again and do not yet realize it. The problem is, you cannot expect to believe that every time a relationship fails, it is your fault. Sometimes it is theirs. THIS is the issue I am currently bothered with.

Pre-ban, deesade said that there are women like that out there, but just not to ME. He said that a woman who does all these nice and sweet things for you only because she likes you. It is just very hard for me to understand this concept of all women being like this and having it in their nature to do so. RangerMike was saying the same thing in a different way. I keep on looking within myself to seek the core of how women are based on my experiences and the experiences of others. When she is extremely interested in you, a woman will do everything for you. But I do not believe this to be a female trait, it isn't embedded into their nature. Men do the same thing for women when they have oneitis. I believe that if you are truly infatuated with someone, then you will want to please them and do everything for them. However I don't believe this to be male nor female behavior; I believe that it is just HUMAN behavior in general, it is not a masculine or feminine trait. I see loyalty as a possible trait by both sexes, just in different ways. For men, it is not banging other women; for women, it is resisting all urges and impulses that they know MIGHT bother their man, essentially submission. And these women KNOW what can bother their SOs, they just CHOOSE to do it anyway, even if they have no problems or issues with their current partner. It just doesn't make sense to me, logically or emotionally or instinctually.

thing is you don't do good to others specifically for them to "owe" you the same as if they are retarded and don't have common sense and decency. I am loyal, faithful and a pretty cool dude for myself. not to passive aggressively be a good person as if I am owed that in return. it's my character and resolve for me. I can only control my actions and have no desire to try to control or "game" and put on an act that's nothing more than pandering. if a chick is going to do dirt? I say nothing and play the "fool" letting her hang herself. and control myself by dropping her period, learning and growing from the experience moving forward in a positive direction in life.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Dude IDK.

Like I said, I feel as though what I'm going through nobody on this board even understands. I'll either get through it, get over it, or will finally self-destruct. Who knows, fvck it.

Long term singles have a auto reject mechanism that finds flaws. I'd have to guesstimate that 5-10% of the ladies you piped down would be able to partner up with you.

 

[BeExcellent]

Couple of thoughts:

First that problem/liability is the other side of the coin of opportunity. Which side you gravitate to is indeed a matter of perception...it also is a matter of how comfortable one is going against majority view, comfort swimming upstream. Opportunity rewards those who are willing to think different and do different. People like this are intriguing to others. Attractive or threatening depending again on perspective.

Second for @Tenacity think about your post above about how would advise someone like yourself.

It will be OK.

That's centered advice. Your head is trying to protect your heart. This creates all sorts of inner turmoil. The market is what it is. Find your center and you will be OK.

Quit expecting something from the world outside yourself and just offer yourself to the world around you with an abundant attitude. When you come from a place of fullness the universe manifests fullness in your life. You'll be pleased with what finds you. It will be OK.

 

[marmel75]

There are but they are becoming increasingly hard to find.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

thing is you don't do good to others specifically for them to "owe" you the same as if they are retarded and don't have common sense and decency. I am loyal, faithful and a pretty cool dude for myself. not to passive aggressively be a good person as if I am owed that in return. it's my character and resolve for me. I can only control my actions and have no desire to try to control or "game" and put on an act that's nothing more than pandering. if a chick is going to do dirt? I say nothing and play the "fool" letting her hang herself. and control myself by dropping her period, learning and growing from the experience moving forward in a positive direction in life.

I am the same way when I deal with women as well. I just go on autopilot and everything flows naturally. It is fun sometimes too. However, this still doesn't take away from the issue at hand. Something about the average woman isn't natural. You cannot be rude and so fat to the point where you weigh 2 and a half times as much as me and still think you deserve me. This might be arrogant of me, but I know my value and what my potential is as well. If a woman isn't putting in the same amount of work as I am to make myself as good as I can and still thinks she is too good for me, then the issue isn't me, it cannot be.

 

[BlueAlpha1]

To the guys out there saying this is only @Tenacity 's "perception", that "perception is reality", that we could not "fully comprehend where you're coming from", this all reads to me as delusional, motivational-speaker talk. It kind of sounds similar to telling somebody of the former middle class that his job didn't really disappear to China - he's just a "negative person" and has to take some of the blame. Nevermind he was lied to by his mother, teachers, and neighbors. It's his fault.

Look I'm all for personal responsibility, but we're all not just fvcking crazy and making this up here. Take online dating for example. In 2006, when MySpace was new, I was 17 years old. I was consistently having HB8's CHAT ME UP. I met several back when I didn't even know what flaking meant, and hooked up with a couple with relative ease.

The whole concept back then was new to everyone including these women, and everyone enjoyed it. You didn't have the sort of jadednes that has now, a decade later, given us SINGLE MOMS, FAT WHALES, AND BUTCH FEMINISTS who are SNARLING in their photos, creating dating profiles that read like damn JOB APPLICATIONS. These are LOWEST QUALITY, TRASHIEST WOMAN on the market who've been propped up to levels BEYOND where those 19 year old HB8's USED TO BE from 10 years ago. How do I know? Because the HB8's used to HIT ME UP, and now there are times I don't get a response from a 5. My SMV hasn't changed that much to justify this radical change. I never got rich or ripped in my early 20's, but didn't become a 300 lb virgin bronie either. I have been an object in motion basically, but the 32 year old, 160 lb single mom whose profile name is MizzIndependent420 is getting MORE attention than the smoking hot college freshman of 10 years ago.

So, put any pie in the sky theories you want on it, but MY EXPERIENCE and that THEY changed more than I did. And once again, I've SAMPLED "other markets" if you will. Albeit not for long enough, but SOMETHING was different.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

Augustus, while I can appreciate this comment and it probably is the psychologically healthiest way to live a/k/a "Why are you so thirsty, just spin plates," there also comes two points in a man's life:

Point One: A man has an innate "need" for offspring. And within this need, he seeks the highest "quality" contender with whom to mate;

Point Two: Once you have banged enough women and been through dozens of, perhaps over a hundred, LTR/STR relationships, you get tired of the plate spinning. A man starts to seek something deeper than just a piece of azz. This "intimacy" is not one that can be engaged with a woman whom you don't respect, but rather with a woman who is a value match. This makes sense in the context of a man's deepest desire: We want conquer to the world, improve the world, commit to mighty exploits, become heroes, commit to things that we consider significant. We don't want to "spin plates." This is a taught, contrived concept in response to feminism, but fails to serve man's deepest innate desire. As while we are out there "on our mission," we also want a loyal mate at home nurturing the household and children.

The "family concept" is not antiquated. It's just foreign in this forum. There are millions of households in the world that practice these two points successfully.

The "plate spinning," "All women are not relationship material" threads get old. Time for alternative empowering perspectives and strategies in this forum that serve man's innate needs.

Hence out discussions here.

I actually agree with most of what you said. My response to tenacity was a little tongue in cheek. He keeps belaboring the same point over and over again. And he should definitely consider looking outside of the current pool of women he's engaging.

Sex without intimacy feels hollow and empty to me. I don't have the capacity or desire for that. Even when I've "spun plates", it was never just a physical act for me. I felt something for all of them. Holding a woman close to you, feeling her warmth and the touch of her skin, embracing each other, that's what it's all about for me.

I absolutely do not regret the LTRs I've had in the past. My life would not have been as rich and fulfilling as it has been without them. And when they were over, I learned something from each of them.

A few things that each man should consider:

Keep improving, keep moving forward, never stop.

Have at least one real relationship with a woman who you consider to be stunningly beautiful.

Once you are confident that you can consistently attract women, look deeper, be more discerning about who you let into your life.

Look at everything a woman brings to the table. Is she kind, affectionate, intelligent, funny, financially stable, good morals, etc. Was she raised correctly by two intact, decent parents? When you find a woman like this, even if she's a point or two lower on the SMV, consider her for a long term relationship. She may be more willing and able to bond with you because she sees you as such a high value man, it will quell her hypergamy.

And with regard to children, I am so happy that I have my daughters. They are the lights of my life. Having children is the purest, most unselfish love you'll ever know.

-Augustus-

 

[Tenacity]

Perhaps I am retaking the red pill again and do not yet realize it. The problem is, you cannot expect to believe that every time a relationship fails, it is your fault. Sometimes it is theirs. THIS is the issue I am currently bothered with.

To the guys out there saying this is only @Tenacity 's "perception", that "perception is reality", that we could not "fully comprehend where you're coming from", this all reads to me as delusional, motivational-speaker talk. It kind of sounds similar to telling somebody of the former middle class that his job didn't really disappear to China - he's just a "negative person" and has to take some of the blame. Nevermind he was lied to by his mother, teachers, and neighbors. It's his fault.

Look I'm all for personal responsibility, but we're all not just fvcking crazy and making this up here.

I'm so glad that someone on this forum, understands what the hell I'm going through. BlueAlpha hit it on the head, it's like working in a factory and crooked politicians sign trade deals that send your job to China.....you end up broke as hell trying to reinvent yourself......and everybody around you blames you for your broke situation without giving you any benefit of the doubt as to how fvcked up your market is (that you had no control over fvcking up).

It's one thing to want to be optimistic, it's another thing to be delusional as fvck. And many of these guys are just fvcking delusional because they refuse to acknowledge any role that market dynamics play out in someone's life.

Here Are Some Facts

Most people will be poor. Most people will never be a millionaire. Most people will NOT see a "happily ever after" relationship situation. Most people live paycheck-to-paycheck.

And guess what? MOST of the time, it's not their fvcking fault, because we are operating within a market system that is DESIGNED for a few at the top (Top 1% - 15% which is the Middle Class and up) to live a decently structured lifestyle, SUPPORTED ON THE BACKS, of those who are operating in lower working class and poverty level conditions.

I guess Legend would say those poor people in foreign countries who work for pennies on the dollar (or in some cases, work for nothing) to support the massive profits of large Global Corporations, have just been thinking TOO NEGATIVE and PUT themselves in that situation? Even though they are literally enslaved and trapped via the laws of said country without any option of escape.

But of course Tenacity is just being too negative and making this up right? Tenacity should just read a Joel Osteen book, "smile more", "pray more" and think more happy thoughts and it will all DISAPPEAR right? Get the fvck out of here.

 

[Tenacity]

Second for @Tenacity think about your post above about how would advise someone like yourself.

It will be OK.

That's centered advice. Your head is trying to protect your heart. This creates all sorts of inner turmoil. The market is what it is. Find your center and you will be OK.

Quit expecting something from the world outside yourself and just offer yourself to the world around you with an abundant attitude. When you come from a place of fullness the universe manifests fullness in your life. You'll be pleased with what finds you. It will be OK.

Yes, but when I tell myself it's OK....I'm not saying it's OK that the market is fvcked up.....I'm saying it's OK for me to be PISSED OFF about it. It's okay for me to be HURT over it.

Why?

Cause I want to get that shyt out of my system. I need to rant that shyt out of my system. Because if I don't, I'll hold it all in trying to be "POSITIVE" and one fvcking day I will EXPLODE and kill myself along with EVERY motherfvcker around me.

That's real.

Because you know, society does not allow us MEN to have any fvcking emotions. We aren't allowed to be mad, sad, angry, hurt, confused, seeking answers, etc., etc.

Look at how I get roasted on this board for just being emotionally honest? For just saying I'm pissed the fvck off over this shyt, or hurt over this shyt, or how sometimes even though I'm in the Top 10% I feel very fvcking ALONE not just from a women's perspective.....but also coming from a family situation where all of my family are crabs in a barrel, ghetto, welfare motherfvckers who can't even comprehend a motherfvcker investing in an "Index Fund" to make money. They don't even know what the fvck an Index Fund is nor do they want to learn, why? Because that's some quote, unquote, "white boy shyt" and as a black man, I need to be focused on slagging some dope or something. I need to be focus on acting like Ray Ray and Pookie, not the wanna be white boy Uncle Tom who gets an MBA and invest in Index Funds, no that's some Coon shyt.

I know Legend wears Armani Suits and has 100% perfect internal game, never gets angry, never gets hurt, always is in control of his emotions and all of that other BULLSHYT, even to the point this guy says you can point a gun at him and he doesn't sweat because he just immediately starts thinking about the "opportunities".......but Tenacity is a god damn human being. Tenacity is a real life PERSON, not a fake internet cartoon character. I have real life motherfvckin problems that are DEEP issues that I have mainly no motafvcking control over and it bothers the fvck outta me.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

I know Legend wears Armani Suits and has 100% perfect internal game, never gets angry, never gets hurt, always is in control of his emotions and all of that other BULLSHYT, even to the point this guy says you can point a gun at him and he doesn't sweat because he just immediately starts thinking about the "opportunities".......but Tenacity is a god damn human being. Tenacity is a real life PERSON, not a fake internet cartoon character. I have real life motherfvckin problems that are DEEP issues that I have mainly no motafvcking control over and it bothers the fvck outta me.

Tenacity:

1) I've had my parents murdered in front of me when I just a child. I was an orphan at 8-years old;
2) I had a "partner" swindle my entire business--and assets--and abscond to Cuba;
3) I've been through two divorces;
4) I've had 12 lawsuits;
et al.

Do I come into this or other forums crying that life handed me a bad deck of cards? Do I come to this or other forums with a negative attitude complaining how fvcked up the world is?

What I do is take the "crap" life offers, gain enlightenment, and find opportunities within the "crap" from which to proliferate. As much as I would have loved to have parents, maintained my marriages and previous stolen business/assets, these events I delineated above, no matter how ostensibly gruesome to the observer, are the same events that created Legend. Without these events I would not have had the herculean motivation to:

1) Begin a non-profit foundations for orphans, helping several hundred orphans get on their feet, transcend their past, get into housing, which led me to my real-estate education and portfolio;
3) Venture into contract law (after getting swindled) which led into a very successful VC practice;
4) Take a deeper look at myself to understand that the problems within the divorces arose from ME, and I am auto-correcting as we converse.

Take the "crap" life offers you, look deeper, gain enlightenment, find ways to create opportunities within the "mishaps," and if you are resilient enough, you will find much light in any storm.

Tenacity, you say you have deep issues. Recognize that I could have deep issues too, but I elected to transcend them with deep introspection and a transcendental perspective. As you can see, I don't think like everyone else--thankfully.

Questions to Ponder

1. What lessons in your life have those seemly negative events taught you?
2. Would you be the same Tenacity today if those seemly negative events did not occur? How would you be different?
3. Did those seemly negative events spawn growth in you and in your life in any manner?
4. How can you use these seemly negative events to your advantage, rather than to your emotional detriment?

Think.

 

[usernamedox11]

I would say there is. You just have to properly screen for a good one and you have to take care of and not neglect yourself once in a relationship with one.

 

[SkrooU]

I don't want to invite a jaded discussion, as I'm undecided on the above. Throughout my life, within the context of exclusive relations, I believed there were a few quality women with self-restraint and -control, but with a few recent experiences, I am beginning to believe that all women under the right circumstance, emotion, and environment can and will cheat on you. The cheating to which I refer may not be physical but also emotional (bonding with other men, etc).

To all the seasoned guys both in and out of exclusive relations: what is your opinion?

Yes. I've met plenty of women who were loyal. I just wasn't interested in them enough to stick around.

My opinion is that men are becoming very weak, and it's allowing women to get loose with loyalty issues. The hotter the women are, the more problems I've had with them when it comes to loyalty and respect. They have become spoiled with men tolerating all kinds of crap just to get a chance to dive between their legs. I hear the same story from these women - men pretend they don't have jealousy issues until they become my boyfriend, then they try to manipulate me and get insecure and tell me I can't talk to certain men.

I don't go so far as to say a woman can't have male friends. I have to asses the situation. Is he an ex? Is he trying to come between us? Is she interested in him? What kind of emotional investment does she have in him? Generally I find that most women have male friends who are not going to get a crack at her. They are unattractive and have already been turned down by her. But she keeps them for various reasons, which I don't have a problem with. I have a new one who called up her male friend and basically used him so we didn't have to pay for a hotel when we took a trip. I met this guy and just knew it wasn't a problem friend.

 

[zekko]

Tenacity, no one is saying the market isn't bad, it is. I don't know of anyone who disagree with that. What I'm saying at least is that it isn't hopeless.

Yes, my photo ratings show I barely touch 7 range so, g

I'm not looking to pump your ego up any, but you are 6'5" and that's a big advantage that doesn't show up on a picture. It only shows up in real life for the most part. I'm only 5'10" but I'm taller than some guys, and most women. I know on days that I "feel tall" I feel more attractive and dominant, which is a plus. Maybe it has something to do with who is standing around me lol.

 

[bigneil]

Tenacity, no one is saying the market isn't bad, it is. I don't know of anyone who disagree with that. What I'm saying at least is that it isn't hopeless.

I'm not looking to pump your ego up any, but you are 6'5" and that's a big advantage that doesn't show up on a picture. It only shows up in real life for the most part. I'm only 5'10" but I'm taller than some guys, and most women. I know on days that I "feel tall" I feel more attractive and dominant, which is a plus. Maybe it has something to do with who is standing around me lol.

Thanks. Yes, I wish there was a rating service that somehow factored height in. It might save people a lot of trouble. That's why online dating is a losing cause for me.

Maybe a rating service where you go to a party in person and a bunch of women rate you and you get feedback?

 

[Tenacity]

Tenacity:

1) I've had my parents murdered in front of me when I just a child. I was an orphan at 8-years old;
2) I had a "partner" swindle my entire business--and assets--and abscond to Cuba;
3) I've been through two divorces;
4) I've had 12 lawsuits;
et al.

And I will say that I'm PROUD of you for having the Tenacity (no pun intended) to keep going and make something of yourself despite all of that.

Do I come into this or other forums crying that life handed me a bad deck of cards? Do I come to this or other forums with a negative attitude complaining how fvcked up the world is?

You don't, but I don't see how we can't walk and chew gum at the same time? I don't see why it has to be one or the other? Why can't I continue along my path for success in life WHILE ALSO time-to-time calling out the bullshyt around me? You do realize that calling out the bullshyt around you is how you can help make life better not just for you, but the people coming up behind you. Imagine if MLK didn't call out the bullshyt around him? My black a.ss would probably still be segregated somewhere.

What I do is take the "crap" life offers, gain enlightenment, and find opportunities within the "crap" from which to proliferate.

But in doing so, you are neglecting the reality that some people are in a situation where they DO NOT have the opportunity to turn failures into opportunities.

- Living in Flint, Chicago, etc., where Ray Ray and Pookie are shooting people left and right, murdering them, if you get your a.ss SHOT to the point of being a vegetable or being dead.....where is the opportunity in that to turn the failure into something meaningful?

- Where is the opportunity in the enslaved 3rd world country worker, who works for food or works for pennies on the dollar, to turn their situation into opportunity?

- Where is the opportunity for Tenacity, who has an internal desire for black women, to find a black woman with no kids, 24 - 30, educated, with good finances, and WITHOUT the stupid stuck up bougie/high maintenance/feminist/dominant/and (insert other bullshyt personality defects here)?

Sometimes there is no opportunity to turn failure into an opportunity. I was FORTUNATE to be able to turn my homeless situation into an opportunity........but the vast majority of people who become homeless in Flint, MI DO NOT come out. They DO NOT become Tenacity. And it's NOT because they didn't TRY.

I was just god damn lucky, period.

Questions to Ponder

1. What lessons in your life have those seemly negative events taught you?
2. Would you be the same Tenacity today if those seemly negative events did not occur? How would you be different?
3. Did those seemly negative events spawn growth in you and in your life in any manner?
4. How can you use these seemly negative events to your advantage, rather than to your emotional detriment?

Think.

Let's go down this briefly:

What lessons in your life have those seemly negative events taught you?

Answer: The business/career sided shyt I was all able to turn failure into opportunities. But NOT so much on the social/personal side shyt. The family failures, fake friends failures, fvcked up relations with women failures, I haven't seen the GOOD come out of that and I don't see the GOOD in that. I'm just not going to be lucky in that area.

Would you be the same Tenacity today if those seemly negative events did not occur? How would you be different?

Answer: If I didn't have fake friends, had more decent relations with women, and had a more decent family structure..........everything I've done so far in business/career......would BE DOUBLED OR TRIPLED. You don't understand how much loss productivity I've had in business/career aspects, being depressed over the personal side shyt.

Did those seemly negative events spawn growth in you and in your life in any manner?

Answer: No, the personal side stuff is a weight that I carry around. The best I try to do is ignore it and focus on other things, but it's only a matter of time before I come back to it because again.....it's a weight I carry.

How can you use these seemly negative events to your advantage, rather than to your emotional detriment?

Answer: I have absolutely no clue.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Imagine if MLK didn't call out the bullshyt around him? My black a.ss would probably still be segregated somewhere.

You're no MLK. MLK did something about it.

The market is not hopeless. You're hopeless.

 

[Tenacity]

You're no MLK. MLK did something about it.

The market is not hopeless. You're hopeless.

Dude I'm just starting to no longer take you seriously. Sorry, not trying to be an a.sshole but I've broken down by detail after detail to you, specific MARKET issues, and yet you still want to put all of the blame solely on my black a.ss