Your thoughts on men hitting their stride with women and being f*ckboys after 30.

[Manure Spherian]

Risk factors for inceldom:
1. Being ordinary (not a man’s fault and wasn’t a problem in years past).
2. Matriarchal, abusive, or problem-ridden households.
3. A family that moves too frequently.
4. Lack of life milestones achieved, or achieved relatively late, especially one’s first sexual encounter.

If someone is experiencing any of these , he should take them seriously and try to ameliorate these or know what’s in store.

I’ll add that my psychologist gave me a warning at a young age in the 90s, “If you don’t eventually find a woman, you’ll be one of the most miserable men on earth.” After that session, I decided to take care of this area. Hence I think the notion a man peaks in his 30s is a harmful meme.
@needimprovement250

 

[needimprovement250]

Risk factors for inceldom:
1. Being ordinary (not a man’s fault and wasn’t a problem in years past).
2. Matriarchal, abusive, or problem-ridden households.
3. A family that moves too frequently.
4. Lack of life milestones achieved, or achieved relatively late, especially one’s first sexual encounter.

If someone is experiencing any of these , he should take them seriously and try to ameliorate these or know what’s in store.

Me and someone else on here were just talking about the matriarchal thing. It seems that men who don’t have a good male role model or father and a majority of the upbringing was done by his mother, he ends up an adult virgin or will struggle with women for a long time. You do have to be extraordinary in today’s dating environment as well, my family never moves but I definitely have the lack of life milestones. I lost my virginity at 21 like I already said, which isn’t too bad, but I didn’t build on that achievement and achieved nothing else in the decade to follow. Never having been in a relationship is also a life milestone that I’m still lacking that is gonna cause me problems too.

 

[needimprovement250]

I’ll add that my psychologist gave me a warning at a young age in the 90s, “If you don’t eventually find a woman, you’ll be one of the most miserable men on earth.” After that session, I decided to take care of this area. Hence I think the not a man peaks in his 30s is a harmful meme.
@needimprovement250

That’s so true. I never had anyone in my life to tell me that and I totally feel like one of the most miserable men on earth now and I use drinking and smoking just to be numb and help cope with the situation I’m in. Yeah that meme is totally false. If you don’t set yourself up to reach your peak when you’re still in your 20’s, then your 30’s are gonna be brutal.

 

[SW15]

I think the not a man peaks in his 30s is a harmful meme.

The idea of the male peak being in one's 30s is a myth.

Are there men who do well in their 30s in the sexual marketplace? Yes.
Is that typical? No.

I fully disagree with Rollo Tomassi's idea that male SMV peak is 36 and roughly 36-40 is peak SMV. I think peak male SMV is around 25-30 for most men. The typical 30s/40s man is a pussie beggar for similarly aged women.

Final Exam – Navigating the SMP

You know, there’s really no substitute for graphs, and charts, and data plot maps. Human beings, being essentially a visually oriented species, see a graphic heads-up display, a God’s e…

therationalmale.com

Risk factors for inceldom:
1. Being ordinary (not a man’s fault and wasn’t a problem in years past).
2. Matriarchal, abusive, or problem-ridden households.
3. A family that moves too frequently.

The first 3 risk factors are applicable to me.

Despite that, I have managed to put up an above average lifetime notch count. I studied attraction and seduction, stayed within the normal range BMI, and had some education and career achievements (money/status has some impact but below looks). I've had plenty of disappointments and psychological trauma as I have been in the process of attracting & seducing. It's been a difficult path.

Some of the moves that I had in childhood were very damaging to me. To some degree, they are still relevant in my life as a middle aged adult.

My parents' marriage was a complete joke. The household I grew up was problem-ridden.

I only managed a height of 5'10". That's very ordinary. I'm a mid-tier man in looks. My photos have rated above average and I get some positive overall feedback on my looks but I'm not top tier/Chad territory there.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Me and someone else on here were just talking about the matriarchal thing. It seems that men who don’t have a good male role model or father and a majority of the upbringing was done by his mother, he ends up an adult virgin or will struggle with women for a long time. You do have to be extraordinary in today’s dating environment as well, my family never moves but I definitely have the lack of life milestones. I lost my virginity at 21 like I already said, which isn’t too bad, but I didn’t build on that achievement and achieved nothing else in the decade to follow. Never having been in a relationship is also a life milestone that I’m still lacking that is gonna cause me problems too.

I grew up in a single-mother home because my father was severely mentally ill, negligent and Vice ridden.

The idea of the male peak being in one's 30s is a myth.

Are there men who do well in their 30s in the sexual marketplace? Yes.
Is that typical? No.

I fully disagree with Rollo Tomassi's idea that male SMV peak is 36 and roughly 36-40 is peak SMV. I think peak male SMV is around 25-30 for most men. The typical 30s/40s man is a pussie beggar for similarly aged women.

Final Exam – Navigating the SMP

You know, there’s really no substitute for graphs, and charts, and data plot maps. Human beings, being essentially a visually oriented species, see a graphic heads-up display, a God’s e…

therationalmale.com

The first 3 risk factors are applicable to me.

Despite that, I have managed to put up an above average lifetime notch count. I studied attraction and seduction, stayed within the normal range BMI, and had some education and career achievements (money/status has some impact but below looks). I've had plenty of disappointments and psychological trauma as I have been in the process of attracting & seducing. It's been a difficult path.

Some of the moves that I had in childhood were very damaging to me. To some degree, they are still relevant in my life as a middle aged adult.

My parents' marriage was a complete joke. The household I grew up was problem-ridden.

I only managed a height of 5'10". That's very ordinary. I'm a mid-tier man in looks. My photos have rated above average and I get some positive overall feedback on my looks but I'm not top tier/Chad territory there.

Thanks to both of you for the candid, serious posts. I’ll try to respond tomorrow.

 

[Mike32ct]

I had divorced parents and was raised mostly by my mom. She was super strict and controlling. It was just school and go home to do homework. No extra curricular activities or parties of any kind were allowed. I was allowed one guy friend and even he had to visit me rather than the other way around.

I actually had HTN looks in high school looking back at old photos, but I had zero fashion sense (from being so sheltered), a boring/conservative haircut that mom insisted on, nice guy tendencies, and zero social skills.

Then I was pressured into commuting to college because mom wanted me at home and dad didn’t want to pay the room and board to send me away to school. So I didn’t date at all until late 20s because my social skills didn’t materially improve until I was out in the work world, and I did a big looksmax at that time once I understood hairstyles, fashion and fitness better. I got to Chadlite from say 29 to 33 before starting to lose hair.

 

[SW15]

No extra curricular activities of any kind were allowed.

That's terrible parenting. Extracurriculars help in developing interests, social skills, social networks, and are valuable on college applications.

a boring/conservative haircut that mom insisted on,

Your mom should not have insisted on that haircut. Moms don't know good haircuts for sons in general.

I was pressured into commuting to college because mom wanted me at home and dad didn’t want to pay the room and board to send me away to school.

Did you go to a nearby college and live at home? That would be miserable in college. Living at home would make it quite difficult to date as an 18-23 year old adult. A lot of parents are reasonably strict about sexual activity at home AND young women don't typically desire to go back to a man's parents' place for sex.

I didn’t date at all until late 20s because my social skills didn’t materially improve until I was out in the work world, and I did a big looksmax at that time once I understood hairstyles, fashion and fitness better.

That is the definition of a late bloomer.

 

[Mike32ct]

That's terrible parenting. Extracurriculars help in developing interests, social skills, social networks, and are valuable on college applications.



Your mom should not have insisted on that haircut. Moms don't know good haircuts for sons in general.



Did you go to a nearby college and live at home? That would be miserable in college. Living at home would make it quite difficult to date as an 18-23 year old adult. A lot of parents are reasonably strict about sexual activity at home AND young women don't typically desire to go back to a man's parents' place for sex.



That is the definition of a late bloomer.

Agree with all above. Yes, I lived at home and commuted to a college a half hour away. I didn’t date in college because I still had no social skills at that time. I was also an engineering student around probably 90% dudes, except for the Gen Ed classes. And I probably knew I couldn’t bring a chick home anyway. So I got into game and dating after college.

Anyway, I’ll stop there. But to the other guys, yeah, I totally understand the late bloomer thing. It’s not recommended lol.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

@SW15 So many posts for me to respond to but I will speak on men peaking after 30.

What I have personally found is that men who peak earlier in life just had easier lives and easier circumstances growing up. This is what people miss. Success with women when you are young is based on circumstances. Rich parents and a nice private school with girls in it? If those parents are laid back, you are practically guaranteed to have some luck. Same with Greek Life in college and even early 20s. It just propels you forward with ease when those circles are around. Men in this camp have it easy and they peak early.

These guys will likely settle down or fizzle out so they settle down fast. A huge number of guys also never get it.

Then you have guys who have been through a lot in life. They grew up in a repressed household, bad environments, and spent a good bit of their teens and 20s in survival mode. Then their 20s were spent doing a lot of introspection and I am sure that maybe @Mike32ct falls into this category.

These guys are cleaning up the clutter in their 20s that they had to endure through all of their lives since kids. Then these guys peak in their 30s and start to have actual success with women once the proper work has been done and yes, fitness is one of those things as is the mental side of it.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

@SW15 and I am sure others who watch sports like my boy @CornbreadFed can relate to this analogy.

Guys who peak in their 20s with women are like head coaches that inherit a team that was already winning championships because everything was in place, it is a plug and play. They just need to show up because everything is in place already. The supporting cast, ownership, and everyone are in place who have been running things smoothly. These are the guys who peak in their 20s.

Men who peak in their 30s are like the head coach that inherits a losing team with bad ownership and a broken system. You are going to have seasons that will suck but you just need to win more games each season. It will take you quite a few seasons to go from mediocre to actually winning a championship.

However, I can say that if by 35 a guy does not have it figured out with women, dating, and game, he most certainly won't figure it out.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

That’s so true. I never had anyone in my life to tell me that and I totally feel like one of the most miserable men on earth now and I use drinking and smoking just to be numb and help cope with the situation I’m in. Yeah that meme is totally false. If you don’t set yourself up to reach your peak when you’re still in your 20’s, then your 30’s are gonna be brutal.

Not that but you need to work through a ton of things in your 20s for your 30s to work out.

1. Mental help and realizing that you have a problem that needs worked on.

2. Getting rid of negative and limiting beliefs, no space for them at all anymore in your 30s. Your 20s should have been spent clearing out all the clutter.

3. Getting in physical shape and a good one at that.

4. Getting your finances somewhat in order, this especially means career or a business.

5. Becoming independent and not living with your parents.

You need to do all of this in your 20s and get it all sorted out. If you do not, then yeah, your 30s will suck.

 

[needimprovement250]

Did you go to a nearby college and live at home? That would be miserable in college. Living at home would make it quite difficult to date as an 18-23 year old adult. A lot of parents are reasonably strict about sexual activity at home AND young women don't typically desire to go back to a man's parents' place for sex.

That was my experience too and yeah it was miserable. That was another bad thing about community college is that living at home is your only option.

 

[needimprovement250]

Not that but you need to work through a ton of things in your 20s for your 30s to work out.

1. Mental help and realizing that you have a problem that needs worked on.

2. Getting rid of negative and limiting beliefs, no space for them at all anymore in your 30s. Your 20s should have been spent clearing out all the clutter.

3. Getting in physical shape and a good one at that.

4. Getting your finances somewhat in order, this especially means career or a business.

5. Becoming independent and not living with your parents.

You need to do all of this in your 20s and get it all sorted out. If you do not, then yeah, your 30s will suck.

Yeah I didn’t do any of that in my 20’s and now I’m 31 and it does suck. 35 probably is the point of no return like you said, so hopefully this can all be fixed before then. I got extremely depressed when I turned 30 last year because my life is what it currently is when I reached that milestone.

1. I should’ve gotten outside help for my negative and limiting beliefs that held me back from dating in my teens and 20’s.

2. I should’ve built a better physique instead of eating fast food multiple times a week and gaining a bunch of weight.

3. I should’ve settled on a career path and pursued it instead of wasting my time working dead end jobs that could never be a career and I shouldn’t have been so stupid with my spending choices in addition to spending so much on buying alcohol and weed and built a savings account instead.

4. I should’ve been more proactive at developing a game plan to move out instead of brushing it off and thinking that a way to move out will come about on its own. I also shouldn’t have listened to my parents and sister when they ridiculed me and called me trailer trash for considering something like that as an option to move out.

I do have quite a bit of money saved up to move out now, and I’ve lost close to 40 lbs of body fat. I’m also trying to get a certification for a career, but the mistakes I made in my 20’s definitely that I outlined above definitely left a lasting negative impact on my current life situation.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

After seeing what I look like, I remember you said I'd be ignored on apps (which lines up with my real live experience on apps)

The type of man to succeed on apps is likely the same type of man who'd have no problem getting a woman outside of apps. Which begs the question: In that case, what's the point of apps existing in the first place?

To make a financial profit for companies like Match dot com.
Did you really think dating apps were created to bring people together?

 

[SW15]

@SW15 So many posts for me to respond to but I will speak on men peaking after 30.

What I have personally found is that men who peak earlier in life just had easier lives and easier circumstances growing up. This is what people miss. Success with women when you are young is based on circumstances. Rich parents and a nice private school with girls in it? If those parents are laid back, you are practically guaranteed to have some luck. Same with Greek Life in college and even early 20s. It just propels you forward with ease when those circles are around. Men in this camp have it easy and they peak early.

These guys will likely settle down or fizzle out so they settle down fast. A huge number of guys also never get it.

Almost all of the sexual marketplace experiences before 22-23 are based solely on circumstances.

Height is an important factor and dependent on your parents' genetics. Geographic constancy will help a lot if your parents keep you in the same geographic for the entirety of the K-12 years. The relationship between your parents also matters as males who deal with parents with some sort of dysfunctional dynamic are more prone to issues. I think height and geographic constancy are the 2 bigger factors, though a younger male will also be helped socially by keeping a normal range BMI. Being an overweight child was hurtful to social popularity in my formative years, but possibly less hurtful now with a larger percentage of the child population overweight.

For those that attend college, joining a fraternity will often make things easier. A mid-tier guy in a mid-tier fraternity is probably going to get a mid girlfriend from a mid-tier sorority. It is likely to be easier for him than a non-Greek Life affiliated mid-tier guy mainly doing stuff at off campus parties, on campus classes, or on campus social clubs.

Below are Greek Life stats. If a male attends a school with a less than 10% Greek Life participation rate, Greek Life won't impact campus life too much. If the Greek Life participation rate is 10-15%, then there are some impacts and he may be affected if he's not Greek Life affiliated. When the Greek Life participation rate is 16%+, then his social life is likely to be impacted at his university if he's not Greek Life affiliated.

https://www.collegetransitions.com/dataverse/greek-life

A lot of the guys who have good setups before 22-23 do peak earlier and can often get into the LTR that leads to marriage by then. Then might not be married at 24, but they might be in the relationship that gets then married at 26-28.

A lot of the peak early guys do end up as divorced males by their late 30s/early 40s. That's when it becomes evident their early advantage is gone and they are going to have to date like the guys who peaked later.

 

[GoodMan32]

Our stories are pretty similar. I wouldn’t even allow myself to develop an interest in any of the girls at my school. I didn’t want to fool myself into thinking I actually had a chance with anyone since I felt that rejection was guaranteed. I had family members and friends asking me if there was any girls at my school that I liked and I always said no. Both thought it was weird and my younger sister even said I’m not normal because I don’t like any girls. But the thing is, I never explained to them that I felt this way because I was assuming rejection as the only outcome. The lack of an explanation made them think something was wrong with me or that I was gay (my sexual orientation got questioned by both friends and family members and they explicitly said they’re asking because I never date or even interact with girls).

I got compliments from women a few times back then too and never reciprocated either, I just said thanks and went about my business. It’s these subtle things that neither of us learned to pick up on clearly. A male role model definitely can make a world of difference. There’s a dating coach who specializes in helping adult male virgins and in interviews he’s given about what he does for coaching, he said that a common theme he noticed among the adult male virgins who would come to him for coaching is that they were absent a father figure or other male role model of some kind and and their mother played the largest part in their upbringing. He said too that mothers don’t impart the best knowledge and advice when it comes to dating for their sons and what usually happens is they train their sons to be nice guys and they finish last obviously. My dad worked 2 jobs so that my mom could stay home with me and my sister, and when I got to that age he gave me no advice when it came to dating women.

The third wheel thing isn’t much better with me. My dad never likes to go anywhere and he’s pretty much a hermit, so my mom makes me go out to dinner or other places she wants to go. What this is called is a son-husband and its awful. This is also a pretty common occurrence when a man is at an adult age and has never dated, his mother will try and step in to fill the non-physical companionship aspect that their son is lacking from having no success with women.

In college, a female classmate asked me for assistance in the computer lab. Rather than having me pull up a chair, she scooted over in her chair (and told me to share the seat with her). Sounds like a pretty sure sign she was into me.

Yet a short bit later when I expressed interest in her, turned out the broad wasn't into me. I guess what I'm saying is: Even if a broad is seemingly giving a clue, there's no guarantee she's into you.

As for (what you described as) the son-husband role, that's another area where we're alike. After college, I lived at home for 2 years. My dad hadn't retired yet at that point (so he was often away). My mom would have me go places with her to fulfill her social needs.

 

[Solomon]

Not really interested in what others thing I should do. I do what I want.

I keep my dating life private, I don't bring women around friends or family unless it's serious
A lot of my hookups or ONS happen so fast that even If I did mention it to a friend they would be "WOW who is that?" there are lot of women who are StopNGO literally

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Rather than having me pull up a chair, she scooted over in her chair (and told me to share the seat with her). Sounds like a pretty sure sign she was into me.

It's an indication of interest, but when it leads to:

Yet a short bit later when I expressed interest in her, turned out the broad wasn't into me. I guess what I'm saying is: Even if a broad is seemingly giving a clue, there's no guarantee she's into you.

You probably messed it up.

That's the thing, women will give you a chance, but if you don't see the chance or you don't know how to deal with the chance you get, you will mess up.
And fail.
But you will learn from your failures.

 

[Solomon]

Typical RP madman overanalyzing female behavior, scolding and informing stupid, vapid, plastic and burnt-to-a-crisp broads (“Heehee, did you women know the guys you want are 0.1% of the population?”, as if they care), and doing the typical RP theme of “improvement” (socialmaxxing, GDP, gymmaxxing) and catching up. I recently saw a YouTube short of him in which he said something like, “Now that I’m in my 40s I attract more women…”. Again, my thought was, “Uh… what went on before that?”

Not All this is bad, considering late bloomers need advice and don’t need to die alone. I still think RP content, though some of it is informative, serves as a warning: do not wait on this area of life considering the more time passes in one’s teen years and 20s, the harder it will be, if not resulting in inceldom/womanlessness. Teenage females start screwing at thirteen and typically Chads and scumbags lose their virginity to older women. Young men should be aware of this to avoid being deluded by the Revenge of the Nerds and Silver Foxes meme.
When my son is older I will warn him of the consequences mentioned.

The problem with RP content creators especially on youtube is they only give a doom and gloom message. The solution? buy my book, buy my course derp derp derp. There is no actionable advice outside of lift, become rich, or be high value. The solutions are general and don't help you with charisma, social mastery i.e. how to talk to women etc. It's bascially very watered-down PUA advice but a lot of doom and gloom preaching. That's why a lot of these podcasts bring on the bimbo's but do you see any game from the podcasters trying to chat these women up? hell no it's just them trying to argue about stuff that is already known again and again and again. This is why I feel abd for kids in their 20s the era of field reports are dead, actionable advice is now relegated to just being "High Earning Value". 70% of this forum will never see a 6 figure salary 90% will never be millionaires. It's selling a dream that if you become high value you can get any woman you want and she will let you cheat. Talk about delusional

What helped my "game" by 10,000X was hanging around naturals. It will break a lot of myths& limited beliefs you have about women, looks, money status etc. I have seen it all in the field from a 5'5, 140 broke guy picking up chicks at a 50% success rate doing club game, to a 6-foot skinny Asian kid with a great social circle of hot blondes, and Asian women and he was making 30K a year. To seeing how guys who have status in their cities have the hottest chicks but they were average-looking guys etc. The field experience trumps a lot of these RP talking points because once you see the game for yourself you realize a lot of the shyt those guys talk about don't matter in the real world or are just over-analyzations. If you watch RP content it would have you thinking every women is a onlyfans ***** looking to be a golddigger for rich men. For those of us who are in the field actually putting the pedal to the metal we know that's bull****

 

[Solomon]

3. Contrary to popular belief, most "Chads" are not smashing, I am sure @CornbreadFed can confirm this too but a lot of these "Chads" find a Stacy to wife up or settle down with FAST

I would take it a step further that a lot of Chads(and Tyrones) are also smashing women far below their SMV, I've seen this (all races) of a guy who is great looking, in fantastic shape banging a fattie or UG chick. Obviously it's easier for them to bang these types but it blows my mind how everyone assumes Chad/Tyrone are only banging hotties when it's not the case. A lot of those guys will smash fatties/UG's too heck I know some one guy personally who has done body building and he smashes the fattest chicks, lmfao. LIke there is no point IMO of working out if you wanna do that.