Will the pessimists on this site please f.uck off?

[Mad Manic]

agree to disagree. women don't have the power unless you let them have it. Maxtro's metaphor with the hunter/doe PERFECTLY examplifies this.

Yes agreed, but the problem is, most guys are giving it to them in bucketloads. So even if I have game, they're still in the position of having a shedload of options and power due to those guys. If every guy implemented the above, then yes they'd have no power.

now, for a woman to be ATTRACTIVE, all she has to do is look good. So you say it's easy for her. but 80-90% of women DON'T look good. they re fvcked! no matter how much game they have they won't be able to get lay wit any guy they want, let alone in 5 min.

As long as the woman is average looking then she has an easy time in getting laid in 5 mins. Even HB 3-4s can since so many guys struggle to get tail, they'll take the easy ticket.

But you re a GUY. you can become attractive if you don't look great (style, tyler durden), even if you're ugly (ross jeffries). that s where your "game" comes in. and a big part of your game depends on your ATTITUDE. change your attitude and your game will improve

Wow, looks like somebody is a bit deluded. Girls are attracted to guys ALL the time and usually don't have sex with them. Attracting a girl is a VERY small part of getting her into bed. She can be attracted to 5 guys and pick one of them; that's often the kinda stuff that happens.

Considering yourself the prize, not the woman has nothing to do with approaching non-prize worthy females. to consider yourself the prize is the ATTITUDE you need to have when you sarge so you don't put any woman on a pedestal. A fair amount of girls attractive on the outside are really just shallow, superficial and plain worthless human beings so their not a PRIZE to be pursued, just another va.gina. If you don't hook up SHE misses out, not you. there s plenty more fish in the sea

Agreed, let me elaborate. If I see an attractive girl, meet her and like her all round then if we don't hook up as I see it as a 2-way loss. Often an excess of options and *****y ****blocking friends ensure this.

what are you basing that personal belief on? you should pick up some psychology books and start reading into this because it s just a myth. So don't take my word for it, research it up.

Just on personal experience, guys are very sex hungry yet girls abstain a lot.

you are contradicting your earlier point that you wouldn't approach a "non-prize-worthy" woman. I WOULDN'T do it and no self-respecting DJ would either. most women who voluntarily abstain from sex do it because they can't have it ON THEIR OWN TERMS. it s like saying you could easily have sex if you just threw your standards out the window... now is that realistic?

Sorry what's the contradiction here? I agree with what you said.

Do you do all these things just to get women or do you them them to improve yourself? to better yourself as a human being? If you are then you need to seriously re-examine your life and change your overall ATTITUDE.

Both, but according to the books doing stuff that makes you happy only occurs if it helps your probability of reproduction/survival.

look, i m not trying to flame you, just trying to get you to understand that you have the wrong ATTITUDE. A lot of the views you have expressed on women and gaming are pure AFC stuff. Now the point of the "seduction community" is to help guys move past their AFC outlook on life. if you don't change your ATTITUDE and outlook on life, then no amount of time spent on these boards will help you get any closer to succeeding with women

I'm not sure why you're addressing all of this as a description of me, I'm talking in a general sense anyway. Typically we have the scenario of a club full of women having fun and teasing/flirting/pushing away men and lots of desperate, hungry guys trying to get some ass but failing most of the time, if always. Now I agree the women are pedestalised because the men put them there, but as long as there are men putting them there then it makes everyone's dating lives that much harder - The woman has a ton of easy options and lots of social and sexual power as a result of society. I never said you can't overcome it, but I also wouldn't play down how hard it is to become a DJ. I mean can you really walk into any club on any night and take a hot girl home no problems, every time? No chance fella.

Again, I'll re-iterate; attracting women does NOT mean you're going to have sex with them. There's WAAAAAY more to it than that. Even me with my measly count of three has figured that out.

 

[Mad Manic]

Dude you only slept with 3 girls your whole life. They might infact have power over YOU. But that doesnt mean everyone else suffers the same fate.

Unless you're walking into a club and you're taking home a hot girl everytime with no sweat, then yes we're all suffering from this phenomenon.

 

[Lust]

19 in 2 and a half years?

Good on you mate, all the encouragement but you still have a long way to go.

Guys in our community are scoring that much every 2 or so months.

 

[drak_ool]

Mad Maniac instead of focusing on my post sentence by sentence, look at the bigger picture. Your position in this argument is the impersonation of total AFC attitude/behavior. You correctly identified how MOST guys act around women. Everybody here is already familiar wit what defines an AFC, so what are you adding to the debate? nothing

The DJ, by definition, does not act like all the AFCs around him. He is the "exception to the rule". And this is why he gets the women.

YES, women have power over AFCs and wusses but NO, they DON'T have power over DJs. DJs dominate women, which is what really turns them on and that is why the DJ, not the "nice-guy-who-bought-her-drinks-all-night" takes the woman home.

Again, the first step towards being a DJ is to change your outlook on women and life, change your ATTITUDE. Women only have power if you give it to them, so don't do it!

As for your other points, even gurus might not be able to "take a girl home wit no sweat" EVERY night... But any real DJ can pull a hot piece of a$$ over a span of a weekend. Is it EASY to become a DJ? No, i never claimed that. Like everything else in life, it takes practice, patience and the BELIEVE that you will succeed. So if you start off with the wrong attitude, then you re right, you will never succeed

Then, based on your experience, women are a lot less horny than guys... hum, is that based on your experience with THREE women? That s not nearly a large enough sample for you to make any kind of generalizations about women's sexuality

And you keep talking about how women have so many "easy" options but men don't. Well, i got news for you: there are a lot of ugly/fat/handicapped/one-legged/one-armed/one-breasted/bearded/toothless/etc women out there who are dying to fvck but can't. However, if you lowered your standards enough, you could get laid by one of them. So there you go... the "easy" option.

understand that, contrary to guys, women are attracted to more than looks. For a hot woman to hook up with an average looking supplicating AFC is the same as for a hot guy to hook up wit an ugly/fat chick.

of course attracting a woman does not mean you ll fvck her. In fact there s a lot more to pick up than just "attraction". You need to make a woman feel secure around you, you need to build comfort, you need to bring her into your "world", you need to build up sexual tension... All things that DJs wit good game are comfortable doing, while AFCs fail miserably

POSITIVE ATTITUDE>>>ENHANCED GAME>>>INCREASED RESULTS
NEGATIVE ATTITUDE>>>AFC BEHAVIOR>>>NO RESULTS

 

[Mad Manic]

Mad Maniac instead of focusing on my post sentence by sentence, look at the bigger picture. Your position in this argument is the impersonation of total AFC attitude/behavior. You correctly identified how MOST guys act around women. Everybody here is already familiar wit what defines an AFC, so what are you adding to the debate? nothing

The DJ, by definition, does not act like all the AFCs around him. He is the "exception to the rule". And this is why he gets the women.

YES, women have power over AFCs and wusses but NO, they DON'T have power over DJs. DJs dominate women, which is what really turns them on and that is why the DJ, not the "nice-guy-who-bought-her-drinks-all-night" takes the woman home.

Again, the first step towards being a DJ is to change your outlook on women and life, change your ATTITUDE. Women only have power if you give it to them, so don't do it!

As for your other points, even gurus might not be able to "take a girl home wit no sweat" EVERY night... But any real DJ can pull a hot piece of a$$ over a span of a weekend. Is it EASY to become a DJ? No, i never claimed that. Like everything else in life, it takes practice, patience and the BELIEVE that you will succeed. So if you start off with the wrong attitude, then you re right, you will never succeed

Then, based on your experience, women are a lot less horny than guys... hum, is that based on your experience with THREE women? That s not nearly a large enough sample for you to make any kind of generalizations about women's sexuality

And you keep talking about how women have so many "easy" options but men don't. Well, i got news for you: there are a lot of ugly/fat/handicapped/one-legged/one-armed/one-breasted/bearded/toothless/etc women out there who are dying to fvck but can't. However, if you lowered your standards enough, you could get laid by one of them. So there you go... the "easy" option.

understand that, contrary to guys, women are attracted to more than looks. For a hot woman to hook up with an average looking supplicating AFC is the same as for a hot guy to hook up wit an ugly/fat chick.

of course attracting a woman does not mean you ll fvck her. In fact there s a lot more to pick up than just "attraction". You need to make a woman feel secure around you, you need to build comfort, you need to bring her into your "world", you need to build up sexual tension... All things that DJs wit good game are comfortable doing, while AFCs fail miserably

POSITIVE ATTITUDE>>>ENHANCED GAME>>>INCREASED RESULTS
NEGATIVE ATTITUDE>>>AFC BEHAVIOR>>>NO RESULTS

Agree with everything you said, I don't think we have differing opinions other than the odd small point.

But yes you make a fair point regarding the numbers of women who also can't get dvck. I guess I'm comparing average-hot women vs average-hot guys and saying there's a huge misbalance in power here, that's all. Remember I'm talking generally. Me being a DJ or AFC doesn't change how general society operates, that's all I'm getting at. As long as they are pedestalised, we'll always need to jump through all these hoops.

And I'm glad you acknowledged my point RE attraction. So often this site bangs on about trying to attract a woman. That ain't my problem. My problem is taking her home from her friends and/or meeting on a Day 2 where she has her friends and bizarre insecurities to mess things up. It's not about whether she "likes me" or "thinks I'm hot". That's why it's a game.

MM

 

[BenPW-DJNewbie]

OK I did all that but the girl still refused to have sex because she wasn't in the mood. It's hard to get sex from her when you do everything above and she still has to "give" it to me. There is no point to do all of the above if the result isn't gauranteed to have sex.

If you study for a test, you get a good mark.
If go to France, you will learn French
If you Go the Gym, Maximize your face, Get good body language, get good clothes and get some game, she still can say no to give you sex.

You guys are telling us do to do all that stuff but are not gauranteeing the result. If you can't gaurantee it, then why should we do it?

I have enough money for the rest of my life. If you guys don't know to make money, you have to work harder and smarter and it will be so so easy for you. It's simple math to make money. Once you know the formula, you will be rich beyond your wildest dreams.

The point is the journey, not the destination. Enjoy your life. Do something important to you. Have meanings in life. Focus on yourself, and what you want to do, and the girls will come. If one girl isn't satisfying your needs, stop being a clingy git, and move on. Go find someone that is right for you.

 

[L777]

19 in 2 and a half years?

Good on you mate, all the encouragement but you still have a long way to go.

Guys in our community are scoring that much every 2 or so months.

That completely wan't the point of the post, the point was compare myself now to the old me, not anyone else in the community. I've improved by MY standards.

Actually, come to think of it, I can't think of a reason why you would post that, nothing positive can come out of it, it just sounds like a cheap shot tbh.

And considering your only at the stage where you're making one approach every three days, I don't really think you have the right to make a post like that.

 

[Mad Manic]

The point is the journey, not the destination. Enjoy your life. Do something important to you. Have meanings in life. Focus on yourself, and what you want to do, and the girls will come. If one girl isn't satisfying your needs, stop being a clingy git, and move on. Go find someone that is right for you.

All DonJuan11 is saying is he can do loads to get good with women but he's banking on the woman giving him sex, he can't just grab her and do it he has to jump through all the hoops and hopes she chooses him. We don't have a choice because we're the ones approaching and gaming. I don't/won't ever agree with claims that this is beta thinking or I'm giving them the power. I need to approach, have game, jump through hoops etc and still WILL fail sometimes EVEN if I'm great (whereas an ok-hot women has it so easy), means we are in a position of less power. Even Mystery doesn't have the power of an attractive woman, she can take home an attractive man within 5 mins.

My outlook is; I'm a guy and as a guy in this society we have a damn hard time with women (most of us). It's difficult to get the women we want and very few men do. So I've accepted that they have the power and I'm going to become the best I can be to reduce this relative power so I can get some nice ass and enjoy life as much as possible.

It isn't: Men have the power, we are the prize, go get that ass it ain't hard.

^^^ The above to me is just dillusion. You can think and read all you like but the time you approach means 1.) You want sex with her and 2.) You're gonna do x, y, z and hope she accepts. That means the ball will ALWAYS be in her court. She can reject you and it's game over.

As TD says, women are typically the seducers, you just need to get it into their head that "tonight's the night". That's why I admire the gurus; they never claim men have power or they are prized possessions, they ultimately say 'Look, society is utterly fvcked up, but I'm gonna help you guys. Follow my ways and it will be better, she will hopefully choose you instead of Tim, Jack or Nathan.'

MM

 

[penkitten]

Zhiqu- " When you're deluded, every statement is an ulcer; when you're enlightened, every word is wisdom."

 

[drak_ool]

My outlook is; I'm a guy and as a guy in this society we have a damn hard time with women (most of us). It's difficult to get the women we want and very few men do.

THIS is where i was trying to get at... MOST guys can't get the women they want, but some CAN. And what do you think the outlook of those who can is? do you think they go out and whine about how hard it is for most other guys to get laid? I sure as hell don't. If anything I laugh at the pathetic attempts at "pick-up" of most guys who have no game.

My point is not that by changing your outlook you will instantly get laid by the women you want. Of course, there is a lot more work involved than that. And of course, reaching DJ level AIN'T easy. My point is that by NOT changing your outlook you will NEVER reach that level.

this is why this thread was started in the first place: PESSIMISTS NEED TO SHUT THE FVCK UP. instead of regurgitating AFC ideas, change your mindset about life and women, be more optimistic and you will be one step closer to getting the results you want. I'm not being delusional, i'm being real.

POSITIVE THINKING>>>>POSITIVE ACTION
NEGATIVE THINKING>>>>NO ACTION (JUST WHINING)

and yes, your posts reek of "beta", "AFC", "wuss", "guy-that-doesn't-get-it" thinking. Now if you want to ignore my advice and keep going about life in your old ways, good for you. But if you stay in this community long enough you will hopefully understand, at some point, what i'm talking about

 

[Reluctant_Seducer]

I am usually a very abrasive and pessimistic person...though I git whats needs to be dunn and generally helpful and do have a good heart underneath all the crap.

If people don't like it they can stuff it up their a$$ for all I care.

I used to be all mr.positive and fake it til you make it and all just jazz..but in the end,what's the point? it's like they are training cardboard cut out alphas or something..it's a joke.I respect guys trying to change themselves for the better and all but sometimes it's just ridiculous...like who the fvck cares ?
lol

 

[DonJuan11]

All DonJuan11 is saying is he can do loads to get good with women but he's banking on the woman giving him sex, he can't just grab her and do it he has to jump through all the hoops and hopes she chooses him. We don't have a choice because we're the ones approaching and gaming. I don't/won't ever agree with claims that this is beta thinking or I'm giving them the power. I need to approach, have game, jump through hoops etc and still WILL fail sometimes EVEN if I'm great (whereas an ok-hot women has it so easy), means we are in a position of less power. Even Mystery doesn't have the power of an attractive woman, she can take home an attractive man within 5 mins.

My outlook is; I'm a guy and as a guy in this society we have a damn hard time with women (most of us). It's difficult to get the women we want and very few men do. So I've accepted that they have the power and I'm going to become the best I can be to reduce this relative power so I can get some nice ass and enjoy life as much as possible.

It isn't: Men have the power, we are the prize, go get that ass it ain't hard.

The above to me is just dillusion. You can think and read all you like but the time you approach means 1.) You want sex with her and 2.) You're gonna do x, y, z and hope she accepts. That means the ball will ALWAYS be in her court. She can reject you and it's game over.


MM

EXACTLY

Those guys who are saying "Men have the power in sex" or "Women only have the power if you let them in sex" are either:

1) Grabbing them off the street and forcing themselves on the girl

2) Drugging the girl and then sleeping with her.


If you think you have the power to give the women sex then you must think the bolt screws on to the nut.

 

[L777]

EXACTLY

Those guys who are saying "Men have the power in sex" or "Women only have the power if you let them in sex" are either:

1) Grabbing them off the street and forcing themselves on the girl

2) Drugging the girl and then sleeping with her.


If you think you have the power to give the women sex then you must think the bolt screws on to the nut.

I don't claim to understand how a woman's mind works....but I've worked out one thing for myself. Once a woman has her mind set on a guy she is going to sleep with, she will do anything to give that guy he oppurtunity to seduce her.

Yes, when you approach, its up to her whether to reject you....however, if you look right and say/do the right things...she will be attracted to you, and then its YOU who has the power.

Most guys make it so crystal clear to the woman that they want sex, and are willing to supplicate and arse kiss to get it. So then when the guy comes along that doesn't supplicate, orders her around a bit, i'e generally acts like a man should, often she can't help but want him....then that man has the power.

REAL men are so scarce that when a woman finds one (and I'm of the opinion that they can tell pretty damn quickly) she will give him the power you're talking about.

I don't claim to be at that stage yet, I'm only 20 and don't even make my own money, and still say some b.itch things in conversation, supplicate slightly etc....but I'm a damn sight better than most of the guys my age.

I can tell by your outlook that you're not even close to being the man women really want....your attitude needs to change or you're gonna remain unsuccessful.

 

[PerfectCircle]

I don't claim to understand how a woman's mind works....but I've worked out one thing for myself. Once a woman has her mind set on a guy she is going to sleep with, she will do anything to give that guy he oppurtunity to seduce her.

Yes, when you approach, its up to her whether to reject you....however, if you look right and say/do the right things...she will be attracted to you, and then its YOU who has the power.

Most guys make it so crystal clear to the woman that they want sex, and are willing to supplicate and arse kiss to get it. So then when the guy comes along that doesn't supplicate, orders her around a bit, i'e generally acts like a man should, often she can't help but want him....then that man has the power.

REAL men are so scarce that when a woman finds one (and I'm of the opinion that they can tell pretty damn quickly) she will give him the power you're talking about.

I don't claim to be at that stage yet, I'm only 20 and don't even make my own money, and still say some b.itch things in conversation, supplicate slightly etc....but I'm a damn sight better than most of the guys my age.

I can tell by your outlook that you're not even close to being the man women really want....your attitude needs to change or you're gonna remain unsuccessful.

Your not at that stage yet, so how can you claim to know what your talking about. There are guys good enough out there to get women to beg them for sex, But those guys are 1 in 3000, and cant even do it with all women.

There arent many guys better with women then I am. And I dont feel like I have the power when it comes to sex, But atleast I dont feel like women do either.

 

[KarmaSutra]

You can also get shoes that look like regular shoes but give you up to 4 inches in height...get them if you're that insecure.

This is the same as a guy combing over the scraps left on his head after the rest has fallen out. It gives off the impression that the guy is reaching and begging to hold on. Which is futile and trite.

Oh yea, and most importantly. GET SOME GAME.

I really like it when guys tell another guy to "get game" but don't have any fvcking idea what "game" is themselves. At the very least make a suggestion with an instruction.

If a brother needs to learn about "game" he should first start with self analyzation. I'm putting together a test to narrow down that which he finds heirarchical in importance which helps to set up a plan. Once the test is complete I'll freely pass it around.

 

[drak_ool]

don juan11, you re hopeless. Why don't you get the fvck off this site and go slice your wrists up? that way you ll do everybody a big favor

PerfectCircle did you notice the title of this thread? your negativity doesn't help the debate in any way.

and what do your made up stats mean? 1 in 3000 guys gets girls? you ve been doing some research on the side that you haven't shared wit us?
even if 1 in 10,000 guys got girls it would be the 1 DJ vs the 9,999 AFCs/typical guys. So what does your remark add to the argument? nobody s claiming ANY guy can land ANY girl, so you re completely off topic

There arent many guys better with women then I am.

talking about being delusional...

 

[ducaro]

Im a 9.99365 in looks and the girl I slept with was a 9.99287. It was pretty good. (Gah you and your crazy number systems for rating beauty!! People who come up with these silly scales annoy me more than pessimists!! groan.

 

[Mad Manic]

THIS is where i was trying to get at... MOST guys can't get the women they want, but some CAN. And what do you think the outlook of those who can is? do you think they go out and whine about how hard it is for most other guys to get laid? I sure as hell don't. If anything I laugh at the pathetic attempts at "pick-up" of most guys who have no game.

My point is not that by changing your outlook you will instantly get laid by the women you want. Of course, there is a lot more work involved than that. And of course, reaching DJ level AIN'T easy. My point is that by NOT changing your outlook you will NEVER reach that level.

this is why this thread was started in the first place: PESSIMISTS NEED TO SHUT THE FVCK UP. instead of regurgitating AFC ideas, change your mindset about life and women, be more optimistic and you will be one step closer to getting the results you want. I'm not being delusional, i'm being real.

POSITIVE THINKING>>>>POSITIVE ACTION
NEGATIVE THINKING>>>>NO ACTION (JUST WHINING)

and yes, your posts reek of "beta", "AFC", "wuss", "guy-that-doesn't-get-it" thinking. Now if you want to ignore my advice and keep going about life in your old ways, good for you. But if you stay in this community long enough you will hopefully understand, at some point, what i'm talking about

No, I agree with everything you say! Like you and I said we need to think positively and take action to resolve the situation at hand. That's all I'm saying; you seem to dislike/criticize me talking about this situation, it's like you prefer me to just pretend it doesn't exist. If it makes you happier I won't discuss AFC's. But the way I see it; things are fcked up WHICH SPRINGS ME INTO POSITIVE ACTION. If I pretend everything was hunky dory I'd sit back and coast along doing zilch.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

EXACTLY

Those guys who are saying "Men have the power in sex" or "Women only have the power if you let them in sex" are either:

1) Grabbing them off the street and forcing themselves on the girl

2) Drugging the girl and then sleeping with her.


If you think you have the power to give the women sex then you must think the bolt screws on to the nut.

YOU have the power to chose whether or not to make sex SO important that you feel powerless.

 

[drak_ool]

No, I agree with everything you say! Like you and I said we need to think positively and take action to resolve the situation at hand.

ok, now our debate is settled!

of course, i wasn't saying pretend AFC attitude doesn't exist, i was just saying put yourself above it. And i guess that s what you re trying to do so keep up the good work