Why Have So Many Well Known Pickup Artists Had Major Personal Issues?

[Isildur1]

Roosh's sister died in March 2018 per the article below. May 2019 was when Roosh stopped talking about seduction. He started unpublishing his old books gradually after that.

Noxious Pickup Artist Roosh Says He Took the ‘God Pill’

The raging misogynist is now banning discussion of casual sex from his online forum.

www.thedailybeast.com

The sister that died of breast cancer was a younger sister who was in her early 30s at the time of death. In March 2018, Roosh was in his late 30s.

Roosh has erased himself from the internet to a large degree at this point. He unpublished the seduction manuals, ended his own website, ended Return of Kings, and ended his forum.

damn that explains a lot - he seemed to do such a drastic U-turn that it makes sense that it must have been something horrific going on behind the scenes that motivated that change - i had no idea i thought he converted to Christianity due to mental burn out from pua but this makes a lot more sense thanks for clarifying

 

[SW15]

damn that explains a lot - he seemed to do such a drastic U-turn that it makes sense that it must have been something horrific going on behind the scenes that motivated that change - i had no idea i thought he converted to Christianity due to mental burn out from pua but this makes a lot more sense thanks for clarifying

Roosh was influential for me. I read "Day Bang" soon after it was published in late 2011 and it turned from a primarily night game approacher to a primarily day game approacher. For years prior to 2011-2012, I had been wanting to reduce my dependence on night game. I was coming up on age 30 at the time and had been going to college parties and bars seeking pussie for a while.

I did read his other articles on his website. He was the driving force behind Return of Kings and I read that website at times as well. I had also read "Bang" prior to reading "Day Bang". Roosh published "Bang" in 2007. Mystery published "Mystery Method" in 2007.

It's likely that Roosh had some mental burnout from living the seduction lifestyle. I think his sister's cancer and death changed him far more than the mental burnout from PUA though.

 

[eli77]

parenting accounts to about twenty five percent of it but that about it we all have promblems

 

[eli77]

Very simple, they couldn't live with that fake playboy persona anymore, they became mythomaniac. I'm pretty sure they had no mental issue whatsoever before becoming PUAs.
Those guys were businesses, scamming naive and desperate men was a lucrative business but I guess that after some times, morality questions kicked in and they found themselves trapped somehow, they couldn't back to a normal life, their whole existence was based on lies, not pleasant to live as an impostor 24/7.

Then PUAs got bad press, those guys realized that it would ruin their name and reputation, so they pretended to have some kind of issues or stop Pickup artistry and switch to self improvement, some just completely disappeared to be forgotten.

Best example is Roosh, if you guys believe his religion BS... lol
They are all a bunch of scammers. I read them all, watch them all for years. I was young and naive and believed everything they said. No I'm older and realize what they really are: losers

whats you background if I may ask?

 

[SW15]

I'm pretty sure they had no mental issue whatsoever before becoming PUAs.

I disagree that prominent PUAs had mental issues prior to become PUAs.

Neil Strauss would be a good example. Before Neil Strauss linked up with Mystery and other PUAs, he was an incel/borderline incel. That's unique because Strauss is a Gen X'er born in 1969. Incels were not nearly as common before the 1980s born Millennials.

The big reason that Strauss was incel/borderline incel was his 5'6" height. When Strauss was coming of age in the 1980s-1990s, women weren't as demanding on height as in the 21st Century. However, 5'6" wasn't considered impressive then either. Strauss was also balding young. His status markers of being an Ivy League college graduate and a music journalist were not enough to get him laid and offset his 5'6" height and balding. That's how he ended up becoming a PUA student.

I'm sure there was psychological damage of going through one's teens and 20s as an incel/borderline incel.

Strauss was one of the most successful PUA students ever, going from a near zero to a high notch count guy.

 

[SW15]

How do you know that? Because he said so?

No one knows for sure how many women that Strauss has had sex with. Do you know what Strauss' notch count is?

When I have watched videos of Neil Strauss on YouTube, I have not understood his sexual appeal. I have seen guys get laid when I couldn't figure out their appeal before.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Check out, for instance, David Berkowitz, a serial killer named 'Son of Sam' who terrorised New York with 'random' killings of couples making out in cars. Berkowitz is every bit an incel, but before the term was coined.

The only difference between Berkowitz and the common incel is that now, with internet access, these sexually frustrated men can find their peers. And while some incels realise they can do something about themselves and get laid and not be 'victims', most of them enjoy their victim status too much to change

Yeah... Pre-internet, these fellas had far fewer excuses for not walking out of their front doors, and making history

 

[kavi]

Would rather be incel/volcel than burned out PUA with high notch count. Neither option looks too good tbh.

Roosh said so himself, running CLOWN GAME and entertainment to basic b1tches to get laid gets old real quick and that lifestyle seemed to leave him dead and hopelss inside.

At the end of day PUA 'high notch count' day/night/old Game seems to have left most of them dead and hopeless inside unless they were psychos to begin with. Females have all the power, and the PUA lowers himself to her to get p$ssy and many notches and the price their for all to see. The Universe always wins in the end, lessons to be learned.

 

[kavi]

I prefer to be neither.

Your some guy that takes part in mostly 'alternative' amsterdam scenes and other types of non-'normal' situations obviously you have found refuge in a third way but that is not entirely 'normal'. Just goes to show how messed a situation we're in when discussing the extremes of PUA vs Incel we get a 'dungeonmaster' come in to give his opinion.

 

[kavi]

Only the sheeple relish conformity to the 'norm'.


Well, you can call me what you want, but this lot clearly needs an objective observer and educated referee. Just be glad I'm not a moderator here.

It was meant as a joke/sarcasm/humour but i think you get that.

 

[Vanderdonck]

Then PUAs got bad press, those guys realized that it would ruin their name and reputation, so they pretended to have some kind of issues or stop Pickup artistry and switch to self improvement, some just completely disappeared to be forgotten.

And it was their own fault as many of them sought out press to build their supposed brands and to stir the pot. Roosh especially got roasted on Dr. Oz, and made a big deal out of his PUA get-togethers being "exposed". Same with Roissy/Heartiste who went out of his way to pick fights online with feminists etc. I think they reveled in the controversy. Then you have Return of Kings which hosted a bunch of loser passport bros like Mat F o r n e y joking about r*pe and claiming to get all kinds of a$$ in the Philippines or Brazil or wherever. (Not saying they couldn't but that is not exactly a strategy for self improvement.) Side note, knowing what I now know about European and EE women especially, I think Roosh's tactics wouldn't work as well as he claimed in his stories (but I can't prove that).

I mean what did they think was going to happen. First rule of fight club and they broke it. The reason is simple, they thought they could make more money. Being controversial and obnoxious is how a lot of sad public figures try to get attention these days. Your material should speak for itself.

 

[eli77]

What do you mean?

occupation
ethnic background
birthplace

 

[BaronOfHair]

Roosh said so himself, running CLOWN GAME and entertainment to basic b1tches to get laid gets old real quick and that lifestyle seemed to leave him dead and hopelss inside

Nah, he was an airhead to begin with, and I say this as someone who has many overlapping areas of agreement with him. Enjoying a plentiful supply of bed mates, then groaning over the alleged "emptiness" of your life, is no less absurd than what Good Charlotte once elucidated here

regarding grossly overpaid denizens of Hollywood

 

[eli77]

neil is still behind the eight ball so is roosh just trading PUA scams for the church story as old as time.

 

[Isildur1]

It's possible it had beginnings then. That's why Strauss was a unique case as a 1969 birth. Strauss was a 1990s incel before getting immersed in the whole pickup culture. Part of the reason that Strauss was a 1990s incel was his height. Strauss is only 5'6". Most men below 5'8" are incel or experience sexual scarcity for extended periods of time. This is especially true for White men, who are generally taller than Hispanic men. Hispanic men can get away with being shorter since Hispanics in general are shorter.

Rates of male sexlessness didn't increase substantially until the high speed internet era of the 2000s and smartphone/app era of the 2010s. That's when incels and men experiencing long sexual droughts became more mainstream. Additionally, biological sex ratios started to become more unfavorable to men in the 2000s.

In the 21st Century, we're seeing more married men getting less sex than they were in the past too, which is a dangerous trend. After a certain point in a marriage, marital sex becomes infrequent. To an actual incel, married men in 3-5+ year long marriages only having sex 1-2 times a month doesn't sound too bad, but it is a lousy deal for the married man. The married men has to put up with a bunch of marital bullshiit for limited sex, whereas single men getting little to no sex have complete freedom over their lives.

A lot of men who become interested in PUA content have substandard sex lives and are looking to improve.

i got into pua because my sex life sucked and i wanted to improve- it definitely got me results but there are a few coaches who i dont like

Strauss- again has a very feminine demeanour i'm not sure how that guy would get laid in a cold approach situation he just comes across as straight up gay.

Ross Jeffries- i don't buy his nlp bull**** nor do i think it would ever enhance any of my daygame interactions - he blabbers a lot and overcomplicates things to look cleverer than he acutally is .

John Anthony- again ****s prostitutes and seemingly endlessly lies don't know how anyone could be attracted to him

Mystery- I respect the work he's done but honestly he comes across like he has Asperger's not sure i can really take him seriously as a person and in recent interviews he looks off then again he's had a divorce plus his sister and mother died this year so I understand he visually doesn't seem to be himself.

 

[Isildur1]

Neil and mystery seem to be pretty well off when you compare them to traditional Don Juan's and sex addicts Neil has his own podcast and is in a whole different field he has reinvented himself which is a good thing if you ever read The art of seduction or any other book by Robert Greene.

mystery got divorced and lost custody of his children then his mother and sister died in a short space of time which seemed to really take its toll on him (visually speaking)

I still see Liam Mcrae, James Marshall and Paul Janka as the big winners that of course and simple pickup though i dislike kong and jessie - especially jessie who seems to be paying for sex from hookers now at around $5k a session.

 

[RSDCharlie]

Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide.

Roosh: Sister dies of breast cancer. Leads to emotional breakdown. Has a religious conversion and condemns pickup, seduction, and all non-marital sex.

Neil Strauss: Was borderline incel before meeting Mystery and other PUAs. That's notable because Strauss was a Gen X'er and inceldom didn't become big until the Millennial generation became more prominent. After learning from Mystery, becomes a quality seducer and ends up in sex addiction rehab. Gets married, writes book denouncing pickup and seduction, gets divorced.

Mystery: Was rumored to have dropped out of the public eye due to some serious mental health afflictions.

Because sex doesn't fill the void. There was a time in my life myself where I was a sex addict. Needed sex almost everyday. Trust me, and I'm not joking. It makes you literally hollow from inside.

 

[BaronOfHair]

i got into pua because my sex life sucked and i wanted to improve- it definitely got me results but there are a few coaches who i dont like

Strauss- again has a very feminine demeanour i'm not sure how that guy would get laid in a cold approach situation he just comes across as straight up gay.

Ross Jeffries- i don't buy his nlp bull**** nor do i think it would ever enhance any of my daygame interactions - he blabbers a lot and overcomplicates things to look cleverer than he acutally is .

John Anthony- again ****s prostitutes and seemingly endlessly lies don't know how anyone could be attracted to him

Mystery- I respect the work he's done but honestly he comes across like he has Asperger's not sure i can really take him seriously as a person and in recent interviews he looks off then again he's had a divorce plus his sister and mother died this year so I understand he visually doesn't seem to be himself.

None of this stuff is based on peer reviewed research, and those who write and speak on such issues are all flawed, same way no martial arts instructor can give you The Unbeatable Fighting System

 

[Travel memoir21]

I think the reason why these so called PUAs don't have their stuff together is they seek women for validation and as a sort of emotional high. They don't have any spiritual or emotional knowledge to feel good about themselves without women's approval so they seek something outside of themselves.

They also can lack a sense of purpose after being in dragged into the game for too long. The truth is Men were destined to preserve their life force ( semen) for greater purposes in life such as building things, arts, sports, writing literature, making charasmatic speeches as a leader etc......You can't do that if you're constantly blowing your load every week on tramps, instead of harnessing it for a greater spiritual purpose.

Women these days can be such a dragged man....I'd go overseas or better yet, convert to Islam and find a darn good muslim woman chaste, humble and modest woman.....LOL, I thought about it. What does Islam believe? It believes in One god and Jesus was a messenger of God and Prophet.....Let's just leave it at that because I'm not open for a religious discussion due to the rules on this board.

Anyways, preserve and harnessed your life Force for the Good guys, you'll thank me later for this advice.

 

[eli77]

I think the reason why these so called PUAs don't have their stuff together is they seek women for validation and as a sort of emotional high. They don't have any spiritual or emotional knowledge to feel good about themselves without women's approval so they seek something outside of themselves.

They also can lack a sense of purpose after being in dragged into the game for too long. The truth is Men were destined to preserve their life force ( semen) for greater purposes in life such as building things, arts, sports, writing literature, making charasmatic speeches as a leader etc......You can't do that if you're constantly blowing your load every week on tramps, instead of harnessing it for a greater spiritual purpose.

Women these days can be such a dragged man....I'd go overseas or better yet, convert to Islam and find a darn good muslim woman chaste, humble and modest woman.....LOL, I thought about it. What does Islam believe? It believes in One god and Jesus was a messenger of God and Prophet.....Let's just leave it at that because I'm not open for a religious discussion due to the rules on this board.

Anyways, preserve and harnessed your life Force for the Good guys, you'll thank me later for this advice.




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let me know when you do.