Why Have So Many Well Known Pickup Artists Had Major Personal Issues?

[Vanderdonck]

Then PUAs got bad press, those guys realized that it would ruin their name and reputation, so they pretended to have some kind of issues or stop Pickup artistry and switch to self improvement, some just completely disappeared to be forgotten.

And it was their own fault as many of them sought out press to build their supposed brands and to stir the pot. Roosh especially got roasted on Dr. Oz, and made a big deal out of his PUA get-togethers being "exposed". Same with Roissy/Heartiste who went out of his way to pick fights online with feminists etc. I think they reveled in the controversy. Then you have Return of Kings which hosted a bunch of loser passport bros like Mat F o r n e y joking about r*pe and claiming to get all kinds of a$$ in the Philippines or Brazil or wherever. (Not saying they couldn't but that is not exactly a strategy for self improvement.) Side note, knowing what I now know about European and EE women especially, I think Roosh's tactics wouldn't work as well as he claimed in his stories (but I can't prove that).

I mean what did they think was going to happen. First rule of fight club and they broke it. The reason is simple, they thought they could make more money. Being controversial and obnoxious is how a lot of sad public figures try to get attention these days. Your material should speak for itself.

 

[eli77]

What do you mean?

occupation
ethnic background
birthplace

 

[BaronOfHair]

Roosh said so himself, running CLOWN GAME and entertainment to basic b1tches to get laid gets old real quick and that lifestyle seemed to leave him dead and hopelss inside

Nah, he was an airhead to begin with, and I say this as someone who has many overlapping areas of agreement with him. Enjoying a plentiful supply of bed mates, then groaning over the alleged "emptiness" of your life, is no less absurd than what Good Charlotte once elucidated here

regarding grossly overpaid denizens of Hollywood

 

[eli77]

neil is still behind the eight ball so is roosh just trading PUA scams for the church story as old as time.

 

[Isildur1]

It's possible it had beginnings then. That's why Strauss was a unique case as a 1969 birth. Strauss was a 1990s incel before getting immersed in the whole pickup culture. Part of the reason that Strauss was a 1990s incel was his height. Strauss is only 5'6". Most men below 5'8" are incel or experience sexual scarcity for extended periods of time. This is especially true for White men, who are generally taller than Hispanic men. Hispanic men can get away with being shorter since Hispanics in general are shorter.

Rates of male sexlessness didn't increase substantially until the high speed internet era of the 2000s and smartphone/app era of the 2010s. That's when incels and men experiencing long sexual droughts became more mainstream. Additionally, biological sex ratios started to become more unfavorable to men in the 2000s.

In the 21st Century, we're seeing more married men getting less sex than they were in the past too, which is a dangerous trend. After a certain point in a marriage, marital sex becomes infrequent. To an actual incel, married men in 3-5+ year long marriages only having sex 1-2 times a month doesn't sound too bad, but it is a lousy deal for the married man. The married men has to put up with a bunch of marital bullshiit for limited sex, whereas single men getting little to no sex have complete freedom over their lives.

A lot of men who become interested in PUA content have substandard sex lives and are looking to improve.

i got into pua because my sex life sucked and i wanted to improve- it definitely got me results but there are a few coaches who i dont like

Strauss- again has a very feminine demeanour i'm not sure how that guy would get laid in a cold approach situation he just comes across as straight up gay.

Ross Jeffries- i don't buy his nlp bull**** nor do i think it would ever enhance any of my daygame interactions - he blabbers a lot and overcomplicates things to look cleverer than he acutally is .

John Anthony- again ****s prostitutes and seemingly endlessly lies don't know how anyone could be attracted to him

Mystery- I respect the work he's done but honestly he comes across like he has Asperger's not sure i can really take him seriously as a person and in recent interviews he looks off then again he's had a divorce plus his sister and mother died this year so I understand he visually doesn't seem to be himself.

 

[Isildur1]

Neil and mystery seem to be pretty well off when you compare them to traditional Don Juan's and sex addicts Neil has his own podcast and is in a whole different field he has reinvented himself which is a good thing if you ever read The art of seduction or any other book by Robert Greene.

mystery got divorced and lost custody of his children then his mother and sister died in a short space of time which seemed to really take its toll on him (visually speaking)

I still see Liam Mcrae, James Marshall and Paul Janka as the big winners that of course and simple pickup though i dislike kong and jessie - especially jessie who seems to be paying for sex from hookers now at around $5k a session.

 

[RSDCharlie]

Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide.

Roosh: Sister dies of breast cancer. Leads to emotional breakdown. Has a religious conversion and condemns pickup, seduction, and all non-marital sex.

Neil Strauss: Was borderline incel before meeting Mystery and other PUAs. That's notable because Strauss was a Gen X'er and inceldom didn't become big until the Millennial generation became more prominent. After learning from Mystery, becomes a quality seducer and ends up in sex addiction rehab. Gets married, writes book denouncing pickup and seduction, gets divorced.

Mystery: Was rumored to have dropped out of the public eye due to some serious mental health afflictions.

Because sex doesn't fill the void. There was a time in my life myself where I was a sex addict. Needed sex almost everyday. Trust me, and I'm not joking. It makes you literally hollow from inside.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Because sex doesn't fill the void. There was a time in my life myself where I was a sex addict. Needed sex almost everyday. Trust me, and I'm not joking. It makes you literally hollow from inside.

It's the need that hollows you out. Not sex. Addiction is rarely in the substance, but in the need.

 

[BaronOfHair]

i got into pua because my sex life sucked and i wanted to improve- it definitely got me results but there are a few coaches who i dont like

Strauss- again has a very feminine demeanour i'm not sure how that guy would get laid in a cold approach situation he just comes across as straight up gay.

Ross Jeffries- i don't buy his nlp bull**** nor do i think it would ever enhance any of my daygame interactions - he blabbers a lot and overcomplicates things to look cleverer than he acutally is .

John Anthony- again ****s prostitutes and seemingly endlessly lies don't know how anyone could be attracted to him

Mystery- I respect the work he's done but honestly he comes across like he has Asperger's not sure i can really take him seriously as a person and in recent interviews he looks off then again he's had a divorce plus his sister and mother died this year so I understand he visually doesn't seem to be himself.

None of this stuff is based on peer reviewed research, and those who write and speak on such issues are all flawed, same way no martial arts instructor can give you The Unbeatable Fighting System

 

[Travel memoir21]

I think the reason why these so called PUAs don't have their stuff together is they seek women for validation and as a sort of emotional high. They don't have any spiritual or emotional knowledge to feel good about themselves without women's approval so they seek something outside of themselves.

They also can lack a sense of purpose after being in dragged into the game for too long. The truth is Men were destined to preserve their life force ( semen) for greater purposes in life such as building things, arts, sports, writing literature, making charasmatic speeches as a leader etc......You can't do that if you're constantly blowing your load every week on tramps, instead of harnessing it for a greater spiritual purpose.

Women these days can be such a dragged man....I'd go overseas or better yet, convert to Islam and find a darn good muslim woman chaste, humble and modest woman.....LOL, I thought about it. What does Islam believe? It believes in One god and Jesus was a messenger of God and Prophet.....Let's just leave it at that because I'm not open for a religious discussion due to the rules on this board.

Anyways, preserve and harnessed your life Force for the Good guys, you'll thank me later for this advice.

 

[eli77]

I think the reason why these so called PUAs don't have their stuff together is they seek women for validation and as a sort of emotional high. They don't have any spiritual or emotional knowledge to feel good about themselves without women's approval so they seek something outside of themselves.

They also can lack a sense of purpose after being in dragged into the game for too long. The truth is Men were destined to preserve their life force ( semen) for greater purposes in life such as building things, arts, sports, writing literature, making charasmatic speeches as a leader etc......You can't do that if you're constantly blowing your load every week on tramps, instead of harnessing it for a greater spiritual purpose.

Women these days can be such a dragged man....I'd go overseas or better yet, convert to Islam and find a darn good muslim woman chaste, humble and modest woman.....LOL, I thought about it. What does Islam believe? It believes in One god and Jesus was a messenger of God and Prophet.....Let's just leave it at that because I'm not open for a religious discussion due to the rules on this board.

Anyways, preserve and harnessed your life Force for the Good guys, you'll thank me later for this advice.




View attachment 13293

let me know when you do.

 

[SW15]

Strauss- again has a very feminine demeanour i'm not sure how that guy would get laid in a cold approach situation he just comes across as straight up gay.

I've never seen the appeal behind Neil Strauss. I don't see how he would have an offering that women in large numbers would find appealing.

Mystery- I respect the work he's done but honestly he comes across like he has Asperger's not sure i can really take him seriously as a person and in recent interviews he looks off then again he's had a divorce plus his sister and mother died this year so I understand he visually doesn't seem to be himself.

Mystery is 6'5" and his height alone would be able to get him laid. He has a unique look that some women would find attractive. He's never looked like a conventional Chad. The relevant thing on him is that I can see how a subset of women would find him appealing enough.

 

[Isildur1]

I've never seen the appeal behind Neil Strauss. I don't see how he would have an offering that women in large numbers would find appealing.



Mystery is 6'5" and his height alone would be able to get him laid. He has a unique look that some women would find attractive. He's never looked like a conventional Chad. The relevant thing on him is that I can see how a subset of women would find him appealing enough.

yeah i don't get it with Neil - Mystery had smv advantages that would at least- guarantee him some lays if he played the numbers game 6 ft 5 and Canadian citizenship is enough to gain some pua success- he wasn't able to maintain his marriage long term though for whatever reason and would often have melt downs online after losing his children .

In terms of the personal issues front maybe the loneliness has gotten to a lot of the puas - for me I had a lot of lonely years during high school and couldn't ever fathom a girl wanting to sleep with me this continued onto university where i was too anxious to talk to women during the day - Torero talks about similar problems when he was at Oxford university he had huge social anxiety problems and then married the first girl he dated (which ended in divorce) So yeah maybe outline mental issues

Or maybe its just revenge on a woman who f'ed them up - Krausser and Torero both got into pua after a divorce , James Marshall seemed to double down on his pua company after his too and his coach John Thomsen had a failed engagement and was abused as a kid by a Christian religious cult - i.e. wanting to prove the world they are worthy - breakups can ultimately be a motivation. Watching my brother go through getting cheated on and divorced was a massive motivation for me personally as well.

Strauss and Ross Jeffries i don't see the appeal at all - Jeffries doesn't even maintain good body weight- he's a fat old guy . Strauss is just too campy in my opinion.

 

[Isildur1]

I think the reason why these so called PUAs don't have their stuff together is they seek women for validation and as a sort of emotional high. They don't have any spiritual or emotional knowledge to feel good about themselves without women's approval so they seek something outside of themselves.

They also can lack a sense of purpose after being in dragged into the game for too long. The truth is Men were destined to preserve their life force ( semen) for greater purposes in life such as building things, arts, sports, writing literature, making charasmatic speeches as a leader etc......You can't do that if you're constantly blowing your load every week on tramps, instead of harnessing it for a greater spiritual purpose.

Women these days can be such a dragged man....I'd go overseas or better yet, convert to Islam and find a darn good muslim woman chaste, humble and modest woman.....LOL, I thought about it. What does Islam believe? It believes in One god and Jesus was a messenger of God and Prophet.....Let's just leave it at that because I'm not open for a religious discussion due to the rules on this board.

Anyways, preserve and harnessed your life Force for the Good guys, you'll thank me later for this advice.




View attachment 13293

Sasha Daygame was hugely spiritual and i argue it made him a worse coach as a result and a bit of an embarrassment at times

James Marshall actually worked at Shaolin temple and used mediation to coach guys ,Liam Mcrae was big on meditation too.

Plenty of Muslim women in London and i don't see the appeal - they are often deluded and one dimensional as a result of their religious upbringing met some in Saudi Arabia and a few of them were very humble in fairness.

 

[Isildur1]

Tom Torero: Has a scandal surrounding non-consensual recordings. Dies unexpectedly. Family confirms his death was a suicide.

Roosh: Sister dies of breast cancer. Leads to emotional breakdown. Has a religious conversion and condemns pickup, seduction, and all non-marital sex.

Neil Strauss: Was borderline incel before meeting Mystery and other PUAs. That's notable because Strauss was a Gen X'er and inceldom didn't become big until the Millennial generation became more prominent. After learning from Mystery, becomes a quality seducer and ends up in sex addiction rehab. Gets married, writes book denouncing pickup and seduction, gets divorced.

Mystery: Was rumored to have dropped out of the public eye due to some serious mental health afflictions.

i think mystery's mental health was due to losing the custody of his kid's he also lost his sister and mother in the space of 4 months - he always seemed to have asperger's in interviews.

Torero had depression and anxiety problems before and after being a Pua.

Roosh V - think he was a better person before he became religious personally i dislike when people condemn what made them famous to begin with .

 

[SW15]

Ross Jeffries i don't see the appeal at all - Jeffries doesn't even maintain good body weight- he's a fat old guy

Ross Jeffries is now 66 years old. There are some changes for older men.

Last year, I started a thread about early 40s Ross Jeffries doing approaches. The infield video was taken down.

Ross Jeffries Infield Video from 2000

Ross is early 40s here. I'm not impressed. Ross' isn't dressed well with the rolled up sleeves and the sweatshirt tied around his waist. He does not give off a super seducer vibe. Compare this to a Playing with Fire infield at Starbucks in late 2021...

www.sosuave.net

Here's a 1992 video of Ross Jeffries on a talk show. He would have been around 34 here. I could have seen him somewhat appealing here but he didn't come off as a top tier guy.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

The truth is Men were destined to preserve their life force ( semen) for greater purposes in life such as building things, arts, sports, writing literature, making charasmatic speeches as a leader etc......You can't do that if you're constantly blowing your load every week on tramps, instead of harnessing it for a greater spiritual purpose.

How about blowing your load every day? Maybe you're right and this is preventing me from climbing on my own soapbox.

 

[Solomon]

i got into pua because my sex life sucked and i wanted to improve- it definitely got me results but there are a few coaches who i dont like

Strauss- again has a very feminine demeanour i'm not sure how that guy would get laid in a cold approach situation he just comes across as straight up gay.

Ross Jeffries- i don't buy his nlp bull**** nor do i think it would ever enhance any of my daygame interactions - he blabbers a lot and overcomplicates things to look cleverer than he acutally is .

John Anthony- again ****s prostitutes and seemingly endlessly lies don't know how anyone could be attracted to him

Mystery- I respect the work he's done but honestly he comes across like he has Asperger's not sure i can really take him seriously as a person and in recent interviews he looks off then again he's had a divorce plus his sister and mother died this year so I understand he visually doesn't seem to be himself.

Simple Pickup IMO is so underrated and showed how easy the game can be with confidence and just the willingness to put in work. None of this weird pua science crap or keyboard jockeying. This era doesn't have a "Simple Pickup" If someone were to start it now it would go viral however in this climate it's super hard to do and most likely would get canceled. The only guy I can see come close to Simple Pickup in 2024 is this guy

Yes the guy is extremely good looking but pay attention to his nuance, his vibe, his tonality, body language, his wit etc. We can't all be Chad's and Tyrone but we certainly can be our own best versions of that

IMO the game died when Julian got canceled, PUA's literally disappeared from youtube overnight, once Roosh left it was the end of the PUA. Now guys aren't learning game but how to be a high-value criminal man from Andrew Tate and these Redpill dorks. A lot of men in these reddits and youtube comments just whining and complaining for the most part(in most cases it's warranted). But ask if they put in the work and you will get some deflection etc. What bothers me the most is that in the last 10-12 years it feels like men have given up. I come from a generation where we were taught to be successful you have to put in the work, I know times are tougher than ever, I know dating sucks(always have), I know a lot Western women aren't as feminine as they use to be. But a lot of men have become just as entitled as the women they complain about yet don't wanna put in the work. If you want something in life you gotta grind for it. That includes women, and some guys resent that and feel they should get a woman just for being a "Good guy" Times have change adapt or be lonely!

Sad times we live in

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Simple Pickup IMO is so underrated and showed how easy the game can be with confidence and just the willingness to put in work. None of this weird pua science crap or keyboard jockeying. This era doesn't have a "Simple Pickup" If someone were to start it now it would go viral however in this climate it's super hard to do and most likely would get canceled.

Every generation will have its own dating challenges. Most of these challenges can easily be overcome if you have reasonable standards and put an effort into maturing your Past Self into your Future Self.

The main problem I see nowadays is guys too concerned about competing against other to learn how to deal with women in a healthy way to foster good relationships. And guys needing to 'prove' themselves to others by having the most desirable woman and the most enviable life.

If your motivation is dissatisfaction, you will never attain satisfaction.

 

[Solomon]

Every generation will have its own dating challenges. Most of these challenges can easily be overcome if you have reasonable standards and put an effort into maturing your Past Self into your Future Self.

The main problem I see nowadays is guys too concerned about competing against other to learn how to deal with women in a healthy way to foster good relationships. And guys needing to 'prove' themselves to others by having the most desirable woman and the most enviable life.

If your motivation is dissatisfaction, you will never attain satisfaction.

I don't disagree with you at all but I wanna be clear I'm talking about YouTubers and teachers.
I personally think a lot of men just don't want to put in the effort to meet women in 2025 and I understand however iMO for those guys who don't try you have no right to complain.

I made a post not too long ago (you saw it )where I mentioned I would approach 10-50 women a night on a Saturday/sunday and guys thought I was lying. 12 years ago if a guy mentioned he approached 10 women a night, no one would have questioned him, it was actually normal. Heck I remember the RSD forum if you weren't approaching 500-1000 women a year then you were considered lazy!!! A lot of men if you were to tell them that they would need to do this for a year or two would all you insane but it shows you the difference and dedication men had just as recently as 12 years ago!

However, it was for a brief point in my life and I really enjoy talking to meeting women
A lot of guys today can't even be bothered to approach 5 women in one day or even 1
Lot of entitled guys who are upset because they are not getting the girl they want yet those guys don't have anything to offer women (I'm not talking about money I'm talking about in general fun time, value etc)