What the blackpill gets wrong. Hypergamy isnt as bad as we think.

[Serenity]

So if I mug you of your money, the problem is you allowing me to do it with ease as opposed to me wanting free(unearned) money?

Deception and violence are two very different concepts.

Not to the extent, that it changes female behavior as a whole. Like it currently does

The problem isn't the women. If you're having trouble with them you should take a good hard look at yourself first.

Yes, yes.... Men's need for sexual intimacy is a problem...

The need for it has always been a weakness, this is a long standing and well established truth on this forum. Why is that all of a sudden controversial now?

 

[DoubleBarrel]

It’s just transactional sex and most men think they have to buy sex from women with dinner or other means of trade. Men are primarily traders and like to trade things. Men apply this to sex too.

It’s not the “free dinner” that makes transactional guys angry. It’s the covert contract “I buy you dinner, you give me sex.” She is meant to know that the dinner is not free. So he gets very passive aggressive about it.

Women see right through it and they hate it. So they eat the food and laugh at the transactional man who doesn’t understand Game.

Despite the propaganda we are fed, women actually hate selling themselves for sex. This is why transactional sex really turns women off. They see sex as magical and priceless, whereas men see sex as a store of value that we can trade for.

Pan, why do you think most men don't understand that the secret to creating connections with women (people) is to take a sincere interest in what's most important to them, and sharing what's most important to us with them? How is a bond created? Isn't it when we know them and they know us, and isn't the aforementioned how that happens?

 

[SW15]

This is why one needs to get enough experience to suss out chicks that aren't into them. Then they can play the "Look, I don't think we're vibing, so I'm gonna pay for my half of the bill and leave" card. May only work in larger population areas though as word could spread quick of being a "bad date".

I like this idea. I have not done well over the years with this. I've been soaked for too many free drinks and even some free dinners many years ago. I have viewed those "one date, no sex, no second date" interactions as hurtful in the times when I have interest in having a second date with a woman that I did not have sex with on the first date.

One way to reduce the quantity of failed dates in which the man gets soaked for freebies with nothing in return is not to use swipe apps. Almost any man is likely to go on fewer dates if he's approaching in person and arranging all dates in person. Dating websites and dating apps have been the #1 cause of garbage quality dates for the last 20 years.

The hope from arranging dates through only initial in-person interactions is that there would be higher quality and fewer "one date, no sex, no second date" interactions where you wanted to see the woman.

It’s just transactional sex and most men think they have to buy sex from women with dinner or other means of trade. Men are primarily traders and like to trade things. Men apply this to sex too.

It’s not the “free dinner” that makes transactional guys angry. It’s the covert contract “I buy you dinner, you give me sex.” She is meant to know that the dinner is not free. So he gets very passive aggressive about it.

Women see right through it and they hate it. So they eat the food and laugh at the transactional man who doesn’t understand Game.

Despite the propaganda we are fed, women actually hate selling themselves for sex. This is why transactional sex really turns women off. They see sex as magical and priceless, whereas men see sex as a store of value that we can trade for.

This is interesting. How can men move on from the transactional model of sex? I have said that all men pay for sex, whether directly or indirectly. I think most men only get sex in a transactional fashion, whether directly or indirectly. Even my last quote above speaks to the transactional sex model.

The issue is that the rug has been pulled out from under most men (in the Provider category) and they don’t realise it. They are operating on an old, outdated transactional model that doesn’t work in 2022 where women don’t need male material providers anymore (it’s not life or death like it used to be).

In Western nations, women can either fully support themselves or can rely upon government handouts for support.

As a 39 year old man, it is most likely at this point that I would be dating 30+ year old childless women with a bachelor's degree. Those women are all capable of supporting themselves. It's possible I make more than a good portion of them but there aren't going to be cases where my income is 3x their incomes, which is what I think women need these days to be impressed by a man's income. I think this does go back to my question above.

 

[thelambofdeth]

Yes girls prefer the top 20% of guys

But so does every guy? even if we are subhuman?

The only reason they are allowed to only date top 20% is because most guys main dating strategy is tinder

Which in Aus is 15 guys to 1 girl

Of coruse theyre gonna have the choice and hundreds of matches and only swipe on the odd guy that they like

And the fact most girls can fraud with makeup to HTB etc...

If dating apps were equal gender ratio and girls werent frauding things would be a lot more equal

And even when girls can get a top 10% guy. most would happily settle for a lot less because they want a stable LTR. as long as they still feel some sort of attraction to the guy.

So the solution is

To fraud like how girls fraud with makeup. but with our looksmaxxing softmaxxing and hardmaxxing techniques

And dont use tinder.

Much easier said than done. As someone who's essentially lookmaxx'd as much as you can sans plastic surgery, it's still moot unless you have a very viable social circle and you're extroverted. The hypergamy issue isn't that women somehow just lower their standards and more types of guys are allowed into their pool, they just go after more Chads. So their numbers are bolstered, and the same average guys that don't get chit...still don't get chit. It only benefits women and the guys that are already doing well.

 

[SW15]

You ask what can be done about it? As in, what can be done about men operating on a transactional model in a world where women don’t need it?

I meant more from the standpoint of how can the individual male shift from a transactional viewpoint of sex to a non-transactional viewpoint of sex.

That’s the first thing - bring back fat shaming.

Return of Kings did this in 2013. Return of Kings ultimately failed though.

returnofkings.com - contact with domain owner | Epik.com

Contact with an owner of returnofkings.com domain name.

www.returnofkings.com

 

[HaleyBaron]

This is interesting. How can men move on from the transactional model of sex? I have said that all men pay for sex, whether directly or indirectly. I think most men only get sex in a transactional fashion, whether directly or indirectly. Even my last quote above speaks to the transactional sex model.

It's really simple. The age of Shakespeare has returned. Men need to wow women the way actors, musicians, and other entertainers have. This is not easy, which is why it's still a ripe and easy field for talented men. Aka being into some kind of artistry. I'm in a hobby that lets me do that and as a result, I have women around me. I don't tell them how much money I make or other things that does not matter: I just show my skill and suddenly they are interested in me. My looks help, too, but having social skills, art skills, and fitness pushes me above other men.

 

[thelambofdeth]

Guys are out-competing each other for fatties and Asian women now (both taboo less than 20 years ago). The thirst continues unabated as men will simply just continue to drop their standards. It’s going to get worse as male desperation continues to heighten.

The solution is not to “looksmaxx” with all the other chodes competing for fat slime. The solution is intellectual and centred around thirst-control. Every time a fat woman gets laid, gets a job, gets noticed…it encourages her to be fat. That’s the first thing - bring back fat shaming.

We've gotten to the point men continually give their paycheck to women they'll literally never meet...let alone what men are willing to do to fat, ugly, etc women IRL they actually have a shot with. Thirst control isn't a solution bc there's an entire epidemic of simps. For every one man that has standards or respect or rightfully fat shames, there are literally thousands of dudes that go around giving women unwarranted validation and bolstered confidence. That's why no matter how fat, ugly, average, or whatever tier of woman there is, they'll all be over-confident and have a bloated ego and standards they haven't earned.

 

[MatureDJ]

It’s very difficult to cold approach during the day & generate prospects from it.

 

[MatureDJ]

You used to be able to directly buy women off of their fathers for a certain price.

 

[SW15]

Women only care about feelz.

I agree.

in my vast experience, taking women out for anything more than a coffee or a few drinks prior to sex is counter productive. You want it to be about you and her and the seduction. If she’s not seduced you move on. I’ve had to move on many, many, many times. Endless times.

I mainly do drinks dates early stages but even that sets up the transactional expectations. It stinks to get ghosted after a drinks date not resulting in sex.

 

[Zimbabwe]

mainly do drinks dates early stages but even that sets up the transactional expectations. It stinks to get ghosted after a drinks date not resulting in sex

Lately I've just been doing activity dates, I always wanted to try rock climbing so I took this Cypriot girl with me there on a date.

Took her to the movies to see the new top gun as well, any new activities I want to do I will just take a date along from now on.

I'm personally not a big fan of drinking or even coffee all that much.

 

[SW15]

Lately I've just been doing activity dates, I always wanted to try rock climbing so I took this Cypriot girl with me there on a date.

Took her to the movies to see the new top gun as well, any new activities I want to do I will just take a date along from now on.

Movie dates in theaters are a terrible idea in the early stages. I thought every man knew that by now and they were discredited decades ago. Established couples do that shiit.

I'm not entirely opposed to activity dates for a first date or second date. For a first date, I'd have to find a common, enjoyable activity in a 5-10 minute conversation. That answer doesn't typically reveal itself in a conversation on an initial approach. It's much more possible for a second date.

It's very difficult to cut bars out of the seduction process entirely. You'll either need them for the initial approach or as a 1st-2nd date hosting venue.

 

[Focal core]

Tinder is a free brothel for women, who wont go to a free brothel with opposites sexes ranging from 7 to 10 ? Most women will . that's why blackpill were more relevant than ever!!, sub 5 women spinning chad like no man would dream of spinning stacy .. Thats why approaching women in real life is futile unless you're 7 and above.

 

[thelambofdeth]

Tinder is a free brothel for women, who wont go to a free brothel with opposites sexes ranging from 7 to 10 ? Most women will . that's why blackpill were more relevant than ever!!, sub 5 women spinning chad like no man would dream of spinning stacy .. Thats why approaching women in real life is futile unless you're 7 and above.

And unless you're at least an 8, there's no point in using dating apps, to be honest. Most men are fecked either way. It's no coincidence simps and betas are so prevalent nowadays. It's a direct result of women, collectively being more shallow, "empowered", particular, haughty, and selective than they've ever been. The irony is even though they're far more outwardly slooty and promiscuous than ever, their standards have only gone up, and their dating pools have condensed. They're fecking more than ever, but only a smaller, more select # of guys. This development has essentially destroyed the entire dating/intimacy dynamic between men and women.

 

[Focal core]

Trust me, 10,000 approached is only a warming up bro - redpill coaches

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

Guys. Before you have any interaction whatsoever with women or a woman in particular you need to look in the mirror and check your core belief system.

@Pan87 has a core belief system that ALL women are transactional in relationships and that a eugenics exercise is being promulgated upon society by the elite. Translation: Pan feels powerless in society and unable to control his own destiny and feels used by women so he may as well use the ones he can for his own ends. He has lost faith in humanity and developed a nihilistic view.

I appreciate that and can see that viewpoint. But it is a low value viewpoint lacking personal empowerment. It colors most everything he says here. His content consistently is shaded by that core belief system. As a result his interactions are disappointing to him and he finds all interactions transactional because that is his filter. The reader needs to grasp this.

Similarly but differently @SW15 has a core belief system that all relationships have a shelf life and that sexual passion dies out in all relationships. He has expressly stated that core belief many times here. Again, content tells you consistently who he is and what he believes. He has issues arising from family of origin pain and does not believe long term (like decades or happy marriage) exists. He is not as nihilistic as Pan but he too experiences disappointment in his interactions. He experiences life through the filter of his core beliefs too.

Guys like OP and @DonJuanjr are not terribly successful with women but are still young and trying to figure out their own core belief systems.

Gentlemen. You must be mindful who and what you allow to influence you. If you listen to bitter or disappointed men you risk adopting belief systems that will become self fulfilling prophecies. Is bitter and disappointment what you seek? Then do not listen to bitter & disappointed people.

No. This is not the feminine imperative talking.

This is a positive attitude person with a rational mind who is seeing great results according to my core belief system which is rooted in self-improvement, self-actualization, kindness, generosity and a red pill (to use the vernacular) awareness of human nature, social contracts (which certainly exist) and belief in life partnership, intimacy and love.

And guess what. My fiancé shares to a great degree my core belief system!

Water seeks its own level. Your subconscious is going to screen for compatability in core beliefs. If you think all relationships are transactional (for example) you are actively screening for and inviting that energy into your life. So be mindful what core beliefs you allow to take root because your experiences will often follow that belief system.

Until an individual grasps this truth you will bump along in life disappointed and not really know why.

As to your question @DonJuanjr I understand the social contracts and contexts in dating. I also know men need to invest to feel a bond (so too do women) so I screen for the core belief system being positive and I screen for investment (of time, emotion, sex, money). Now. I only date men for whom I have high interest (otherwise known as sexual desire). I will not waste a man’s time or my time on someone I’ve no interest in. I can buy my own supper.

I do not seek resources or provisioning and I do not look for a monetary transactional exchange. I seek investment in a much broader sense and I tacitly understand and choose men in whom I see the potential to invest in as well. So in the social contract sense all relationships are transactional. Even parent-child and soldier-soldier. But that is much deeper and broader than what Pan routinely describes. Strait up dinner for sex is different than Band of Brothers.

Think on that. Be careful who you allow to influence your thinking.

 

[BeExcellent]

One more thought.

When you look in the mirror take an honest inventory of what you bring to the sexual marketplace which like any marketplace operates on supply/demand principles.

Chads and Victoria’s Secret models have the most demand and are in exceedingly short supply. So those options are expensive and require equanimity of value to be accessible to someone.

That is why a fugly girl will not end up with a Chad same as an incel will not end up with a lingerie model.

Your attitude and beliefs can positively impact your value in the SMP (sexual marketplace) but you also need to be objectively aware (in a broader sense) of your value to capitalize on your opportunities and/or understand your lack thereof.

The exchange of initial value is different than the ensuing interaction. Wanted to point that out for discussion sake.

 

[GhostApe]

The ratio isn't the issue.

Agreed. Male thirst is what drives the issue, to begin with. Sperm is cheaper than egg, and there's little that's going to change that.

Even many good looking guys have no fvcking self-respect and throw themselves at women for less than free.

This even happens in real life, when men 'date down' because it's comparatively less hassle and effort to pick up women who are less attractive - to say nothing of how narcissistic and picky social media and OLD have made women in general, making it all difficult, for everyone.

What the black pill gets wrong is about everything having to do with the true causes for the way things are. Black pill losers blame women, but it's men's damn fault for making the market the way it is and making it WAAAY too easy for women.

This is why I can gel with red-pilled philosophy and not black pill. RP philosophy acknowledges that it's not just women being hypergamous and oh, not, victimization - it's actually acknowledging all the roots of the problem. Red pill demands that its adherents be self-critical while black-pilled philosophy is just victimhood, depression and navel-gazing. Learned helplessness. Abject.

 

[SW15]

@SW15 has a core belief system that all relationships have a shelf life and that sexual passion dies out in all relationships. He has expressly stated that core belief many times here. Again, content tells you consistently who he is and what he believes. He has issues arising from family of origin pain and does not believe long term (like decades or happy marriage) exists. He is not as nihilistic as Pan but he too experiences disappointment in his interactions. He experiences life through the filter of his core beliefs too.

I like to think I am more red pill than black pill.

This is an accurate representation of my viewpoint. Yes, I believe that romantic relationships have a shelf life. There was family of origin pain. I have resolved those issues through a difficult process.

The best evidence of the shelf life of goodness of romantic relationships is a divorce. Divorce is rampant. The probability of a divorce occurring over a 40 year period (the likely evaluation period for marrying couples 35 and under) in any marriage is quite high.

When a divorce is filed for, the shelf life of goodness ended a long time ago. The divorce is simply the final step of putting a relationship that effectively ended often years earlier out of its misery.

My parents had a subpar romantic relationship that lasted far longer than it should have lasted. I can’t think of 2 more ill fitting people who lasted as long as they did. They lasted 20+ years. Since I am only 39, I don’t know any 20 year long couples yet but I do know some ill fitting couples coming up on 10 years.

In the United States, the norm is to think of married couples & their duration from the time of marriage, discounting their relational time pre-marriage. I think of couples from the very beginning.

There is a lot of evidence that sexual passion dies over time. I don’t want to stick around a relationship long enough for that to occur.

@Pan87 — I 100% agree on female solipsism.

 

[SW15]

I won't take women on food dates before sex. Though one still has to pay for drinks or coffee.

I'll take the financial hits, until I can suss out if the interaction will lead to sex.

@derby1 recently stated how he shelled out close to $300 on a couple dates over the course of a week, that didn't lead to sex. I don't have that kind of money to consistently do that. Yet I still have the desire for sex.

I stopped doing dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex about a decade ago when I first got into the Manosphere. I would like to know how to ask a woman out to a bar for alcoholic drinks & not foot the entire bill.