Wanna date successfully? Date DOWN!!

[DreamAgain]

That is because I am not at the point in my life where I have any interest in risking my assets and freedom with a woman.



It certainly does, but those limits are much higher than it seems any of you are willing to accept as a possibility.

If I had "accepted reality" and let other people shape my perception of myself I would probably be some virgin playing video games, questioning my sexuality since I'd had no success with woman, and maybe snapped from the bullying and shot up a school.

If I wanted to be average I wouldn't be here.

Kudos that you overcame challenges and leveled up. You'll see though that just like in other facets of life, leveling up is logarithmic in progress. After a certain point, things become very, very incremental at best, and stagnant if not depreciating as the norm, particularly as we all succumb to the aging process.

 

[DreamAgain]

@BPH That is why I would advise you to perhaps re-evaluate your stages and consider wisely the opportunity cost of what your current decisions lead to versus what will be available when you are older. Things are not like the red pill manosphere claim, man's value is not a linearly increasing trend into our 30s and onwards.

Women of value, the ones that will actually make good mothers and wives, become more scarce as we age. They are already a rare and becoming rarer asset class in 2024, and I envision that trend continuing. The overall statistics about society in the western world support my prediction.

 

[BPH]

Self-improvement is not limited by the beauty level of a woman.

The woman a man desires, may differ quite dramatatically wether he seeks a mother for his kids or a slvt to bang during vacation.

The term "leftovers" is relative....... at one point that 9 is going to be a leftover because she was waiting for the better deal while the 7 is a married wife with kids.

You are 29 boy? What do you know about marriage, kids and LTRs?



Getting laid is the easy part, raising kids without getting divorce raped is for the pro´s.

The wise man chooses amongst the ones that choose him.

I mean you're the same guy that says he's smashed 2/3 of his women without a condom and claims to not have had any issues (that you're aware of), so I'm gonna respectfully ignore your advice on this matter, based on your advice on that one.

 

[The Duke]

Too much over analysis. There are no guarantees regardless. Live life. Make things happen. Get better. Go after what you want. Get knocked down. Repeat.

 

[BPH]

Yeah I'm done arguing my point.

Do what you want to do, but this is a disappointing hot take to see on a forum dedicated to men's self-improvement.

 

[CornbreadFed]

This is wildly different from "any man can be a 7-8".

Also, is this for rec use women or LTR prospects? Different things apply in each sitch.

I stand by my assertion that not everyone can be in the top 20%. Ugly is ugly.

The manosphere sells a lot of snake oil, and I can see you've imbibed a bit.

yes there are guys that are just ugly, but your average looking guy which accounts for most men can become an 8 with work. Even if you are ugly, there are things you can do to nichemax your way in to some pvssy. Best example is Post Malone, that guy is ugly as sin, but because of his brand he would be getting laid regardless of his celebrity status or not.

 

[DreamAgain]

yes there are guys that are just ugly, but your average looking guy which accounts for most men can become an 8 with work.

I see a ton of guys that work out in the gym, but with clothes on they look like they don't even lift.

Many guys would need to get very expensive hair transplants to fix their receding hairlines and bald spots that young women mostly find big turnoffs.

Many guys just don't have the facial features of a sharp jawline, prominent eyes, to make it to the 8+ range.

They can improve slightly, probably 1-1.5 points. But going from a 5 (average) to an 8 (very above average) is a pipe dream and the effort to actual results ratio is completely unattainable for most guys.

Consider even further the height requirements of many girls that is something that cant be improved not matter what you do. Shoe lifts will get exposed eventually.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

yes there are guys that are just ugly, but your average looking guy which accounts for most men can become an 8 with work. Even if you are ugly, there are things you can do to nichemax your way in to some pvssy. Best example is Post Malone, that guy is ugly as sin, but because of his brand he would be getting laid regardless of his celebrity status or not.

Average is a 5. Do you think a 5 can be an 8? We’re not talking about social proof, we’re talking raw physical appeal here.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I see a ton of guys that work out in the gym, but with clothes on they look like they don't even lift.

Many guys would need to get very expensive hair transplants to fix their receding hairlines and bald spots that young women mostly find big turnoffs.

The gym alone is not going to turn an average guy in to an 8 unless he only goes for girls that specifically value muscles more than looks. The optimal return a guy can get out of the gym is a muscular/leanish 13-16% BF look. Afterwards, he needs to work on making himself into a brand or a persona that benefits him. That will bump him more points or even beyond an 8 depending on his location and timing. The issue is that every guy is trying to lookmax into a Chad which does not work, and they end up stuck as a 6-7. For example, if you are not white or have a receding hairline then you need to stop trying to morph yourself into this Chad Prototype. There's plenty of attractive types that suit bald men or non-white men.

Many guys just don't have the facial features of a sharp jawline, prominent eyes, to make it to the 8+ range.

I agree and that is why aiming for a Chad look is pointless. Not every woman likes the Chad look, so you might not be an 8+ to the Blonde Barbie you are trying to impress, but you will be an 8+ to another girl.

 

[Velasco]

Average is a 5. Do you think a 5 can be an 8? We’re not talking about social proof, we’re talking raw physical appeal here.

yea.
from invisible to visible to hot girls

 

[CornbreadFed]

Average is a 5. Do you think a 5 can be an 8? We’re not talking about social proof, we’re talking raw physical appeal here.

Raw Physical Appeal is irrelevant and doesn't even apply to dating dynamics. The only three things that are safely fundamental are being in physically good shape, height, and maintaining proper hygiene. Otherwise, everything else is variable because women have different preferences. For example, Usher can easily be considered a 1/10 by a girl that refuses to date black men, or Brad Pitt be heavily penalized for having God knows what.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Yo G: at least he has the balls to post his pics here. Do you? I don't. What's up with the hatred? Can't stand that he may have successes you may not? Scared about aging?

Asking for a friend.

I don't think Gamisch really hates me. He's more annoyed that I'm not susceptible to the 'angst' that makes so many guys on this forum anxious and self-conscious around women. If G doesn't mess up, he might make it to my age, and realise that there's more to attraction than a six-pack and six figures.

As to successes, I don't fish in the same pool or even the same lake. And my approach to fishing is radically different. So anyone who feels a sense of competition with me is running a different race.
We don't have the same goals either. I don't spin plates and I'm not looking for a committed relationship.
That's why I don't advise. I couldn't explain why things work for me which probably wouldn't work for anybody else, except that with me everything came together this way. Something might come together for someone else, but it will different to fit with their character and personality.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Raw Physical Appeal is irrelevant and doesn't even apply to dating dynamics.

True, but the moment you use numbered grades to rate aesthetics in humans, you're stacking the deck against yourself.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

I disagree. And furthermore, if the above dissenters are to be heeded, nothing matters because the scale has no calibration.

IMO we’re arguing in circles.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

A 6 to one man can be an 8 to another, so the whole rating systems is useless, unless you're a judge in a beauty pageant.

 

[DreamAgain]

@CornbreadFed can just post a picture of a 5, and then an 8, and we can do some mental gymnastics of what cosmetic procedures would have to be done for that transformation to occur.

 

[CornbreadFed]

@CornbreadFed can just post a picture of a 5, and then an 8, and we can do some mental gymnastics of what cosmetic procedures would have to be done for that transformation to occur.

A theoretical 8 on paper for a man is not competitive on the market when you factor in hypergamy & the micro preferences women have. I consider myself an 8-8.5 and I do not have it easy with women because most women outside the stereotypical groups do not find black men attractive. You can be a 6/10 man and have it easier than an 8/10 male if you put yourself in the right environment. Women do not think like men when it comes to attraction in which only 2-3 physical attributes heavily outweigh the others.

An 8/10 male is always outshined by the 9s & 10s and the guys lower than him specializing in some niche or whatever attraction towards women. The 8/10 male only benefits if he is the hottest guy in the room which is rare. For example, you could be a 8/10 quarterback pocket passer with talent and great potential, but all of that is irrelevant if Tom Brady is your starting quarterback.

 

[Millard Fillmore]

Remember attraction is dependent on the eyes of the beholder. An 8 to you could be a 4 to me depending on what features you find attractive or not.

Ergo "dating down" isn't real.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Ergo "dating down" isn't real.

 

[CornbreadFed]

At the end of the day, you cannot cheat nature. Nature will always come to collect its toll at some point.