Wanna date successfully? Date DOWN!!

[Pierce Manhammer]

I disagree. And furthermore, if the above dissenters are to be heeded, nothing matters because the scale has no calibration.

IMO we’re arguing in circles.

 

[DreamAgain]

@CornbreadFed can just post a picture of a 5, and then an 8, and we can do some mental gymnastics of what cosmetic procedures would have to be done for that transformation to occur.

 

[CornbreadFed]

@CornbreadFed can just post a picture of a 5, and then an 8, and we can do some mental gymnastics of what cosmetic procedures would have to be done for that transformation to occur.

A theoretical 8 on paper for a man is not competitive on the market when you factor in hypergamy & the micro preferences women have. I consider myself an 8-8.5 and I do not have it easy with women because most women outside the stereotypical groups do not find black men attractive. You can be a 6/10 man and have it easier than an 8/10 male if you put yourself in the right environment. Women do not think like men when it comes to attraction in which only 2-3 physical attributes heavily outweigh the others.

An 8/10 male is always outshined by the 9s & 10s and the guys lower than him specializing in some niche or whatever attraction towards women. The 8/10 male only benefits if he is the hottest guy in the room which is rare. For example, you could be a 8/10 quarterback pocket passer with talent and great potential, but all of that is irrelevant if Tom Brady is your starting quarterback.

 

[Millard Fillmore]

Remember attraction is dependent on the eyes of the beholder. An 8 to you could be a 4 to me depending on what features you find attractive or not.

Ergo "dating down" isn't real.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Ergo "dating down" isn't real.

 

[CornbreadFed]

At the end of the day, you cannot cheat nature. Nature will always come to collect its toll at some point.

 

[Murk]

I've tried it twice, very unhappy in both LTRs (as some of you will know) and ending up breaking it off. For me personally, I will cheat on a girl that isn't at least a 9. My search continues, much happier for it though.

 

[DreamAgain]

A theoretical 8 on paper for a man is not competitive on the market when you factor in hypergamy & the micro preferences women have. I consider myself an 8-8.5 and I do not have it easy with women because most women outside the stereotypical groups do not find black men attractive. You can be a 6/10 man and have it easier than an 8/10 male if you put yourself in the right environment. Women do not think like men when it comes to attraction in which only 2-3 physical attributes heavily outweigh the others.

An 8/10 male is always outshined by the 9s & 10s and the guys lower than him specializing in some niche or whatever attraction towards women. The 8/10 male only benefits if he is the hottest guy in the room which is rare. For example, you could be a 8/10 quarterback pocket passer with talent and great potential, but all of that is irrelevant if Tom Brady is your starting quarterback.

Dude, that isn't a good comparison with all due respect. Interracial dating is much different than a girl preferring blonde hair vs brown hair on a guy.

Niche maxing is more in the sense of mutual hobbies/interests. Like, some girls like rocker guys/music guys, not office workers. Some are very much into the gym/working out and want a guy who also aligns with that lifestyle and looks the part.

Whichever niche you fall into though, you still run into the very difficult task of ascending into the right tail of the bell curve. How much musical talent will you need to be a successful musician who can make a living off of gigs/touring. How big and strong will you have to be to stand out in the gym, etc.

 

[Murk]

You sound like an absolute prince among men.

You sound like a female.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Dude, that isn't a good comparison with all due respect. Interracial dating is much different than a girl preferring blonde hair vs brown hair on a guy.

There are girls that will only date blondes, red hair, man buns, and etc. IR dating is just an easier analogy.

Niche maxing is more in the sense of mutual hobbies/interests. Like, some girls like rocker guys/music guys, not office workers. Some are very much into the gym/working out and want a guy who also aligns with that lifestyle and looks the part.

Agreed

Whichever niche you fall into though, you still run into the very difficult task of ascending into the right tail of the bell curve. How much musical talent will you need to be a successful musician who can make a living off of gigs/touring. How big and strong will you have to be to stand out in the gym, etc.

Good point, but this is where environment plays in to factor. For example, being a musician in Nashville isn't seen as a rare commodity because there's a lot of them there which increases competition and supply. It is strategic to nichemax into something that suits your interests, skillset, and genetics. Gymmaxing is technically considered nichemaxing, but results in a gymcel or frustrated guy because it is used improperly.

 

[DreamAgain]

There are girls that will only date blondes, red hair, man buns, and etc. IR dating is just an easier analogy.



Agreed



Good point, but this is where environment plays in to factor. For example, being a musician in Nashville isn't seen as a rare commodity because there's a lot of them there which increases competition and supply. It is strategic to nichemax into something that suits your interests, skillset, and genetics. Gymmaxing is technically considered nichemaxing, but results in a gymcel or frustrated guy because it is used improperly.

I mean, idk, I think most people are way more open to options when it comes to hair color vs dating other races. This would be like picking if you prefer different flavours of mozarrella on a pizza vs choosing to eat a salad vs pizza for dinner.

Nevertheless, optimizing a niche is good advice but fundamentally most men will not be skilled enough to excel in that niche. So, once again, the big factors in dating will become looks, unless you are several standard deviations above the mean in any other category, most importantly money.

And remember we are talking about advise suitable for the majority of people, who by definition cannot all be exceptional. However, women can definitely hook up with these more exceptional men. So, women's access to men of a higher quality than they are is different than a man's.

Hence where the logic of men having to date down comes from, and it makes perfect sense in today's market where the balance of power is shifted significantly to women.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I mean, idk, I think most people are way more open to options when it comes to hair color vs dating other races. This would be like picking if you prefer different flavours of mozarrella on a pizza vs choosing to eat a salad vs pizza for dinner.

Nevertheless, optimizing a niche is good advice but fundamentally most men will not be skilled enough to excel in that niche. So, once again, the big factors in dating will become looks, unless you are several standard deviations above the mean in any other category, most importantly money.

And remember we are talking about advise suitable for the majority of people, who by definition cannot all be exceptional. However, women can definitely hook up with these more exceptional men. So, women's access to men of a higher quality than they are is different than a man's.

Hence where the logic of men having to date down comes from, and it makes perfect sense in today's market where the balance of power is shifted significantly to women.

It doesn't have to be based on natural skill at all. You are just taking the hand that was given to you and making the most out of it. I am trying to make a topic on Nichemaxing and what guys can do, but structuring the topic is difficult.

 

[DreamAgain]

It doesn't have to be based on natural skill at all. You are just taking the hand that was given to you and making the most out of it. I am trying to make a topic on Nichemaxing and what guys can do, but structuring the topic is difficult.

I get your point. But do you understand what I am trying to say?

Even if you try to niche max, it is only an illusion that you have a competitive advantage. Because within your niche the same bell curve distribution still applies. Plus, your potential pool of candidates (women) is also proportionally scaled down to chose from.

So you are still subject to the same constraints and disproportionate market conditions as all other men outside of your niche.

 

[Jor-El]

Y`all arguing,while I nearly had a threesome last night! Only needed 2 more people

 

[CornbreadFed]

I get your point. But do you understand what I am trying to say?

Even if you try to niche max, it is only an illusion that you have a competitive advantage. Because within your niche the same bell curve distribution still applies. Plus, your potential pool of candidates (women) is also proportionally scaled down to chose from.

So you are still subject to the same constraints and disproportionate market conditions as all other men outside of your niche.

The illusion doesn't matter if you are getting laid easier while boosting your confidence. Nichemaxing is basically the dating version strategy of "Targeted Marketing". The "Mass Marketing" approach only works for Chads/Tyrones or the Golden Retriever types that appeal to the largest market base.

 

[SW15]

The "Mass Marketing" approach only works for Chads/Tyrones or the Golden Retriever types that appeal to the largest market base.

I agree with the statement and will go into more detail below.

The top tier men (commonly called 'Chads' and 'Tyrones') appeal to the mass market. There are a lot of data points that clearly demonstrate how appealing 'Chads' and 'Tyrones' are. 'Chad' is commonly used to describe a White male whereas 'Tyrone' usually refers to a Black male. The majority of men tend to date within their own racial/ethnic background. It is more difficult to date outside of one's racial/ethnic background.

I'm a White male and the majority of my interactions have been with White females. I am typically only attracted to White and Hispanic women.

I like your use of term 'Golden Retriever' type. I've typically called these guys 'cookie cutter' guys. They also have mass market appeal.

In the United States, both terms refer to basic White males with Western Europeans/Nordic ancestry. Their features are a bit lighter. There are White males who don't fit this mold. Most commonly, these White males have Ashkenazi or Israeli Jewish ancestry, Italian-American ancestry (typically the darker Southern Italian type ancestry), and sometimes can have Eastern European ancestry. All of these non-cookie cutter White males have darker features (darker brown hair and darker eyes) and sometimes non-cookie cutter vibes.

In many US areas, White women tend to prefer the 'cookie cutter' White men over the non-cookie cutter White men. I've noticed this is a strong thing in Dallas and likely common in Nashville where @CornbreadFed resides.

I'm not sure how this plays out with Hispanic males attempting to date Hispanic females or Black males attempting to date Black females.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

The term "Hispanic" is about culture and language, not race. It describes people connected by the Spanish language, which comes from Spain's history of exploring and settling in other parts of the world. This term is mostly used in the United States to talk about people from countries where people speak Spanish, like Puerto Rico, Mexico, Cuba, Spain, and many others.

People who are Hispanic can come from any race. This is because in countries that speak Spanish, there are people of many different races due to history. For example, people from these countries might have backgrounds from Europe, Africa, Native American tribes, or Asia. So, when we talk about Hispanics, we can be talking about people who are white, black, indigenous, Asian, or mixed race.

When we say some Hispanics are Caucasian, we mean they have roots in Europe, especially from Spain. These white Hispanics are part of the bigger Hispanic family because they share the Spanish language and culture, not because of how they look.

The Hispanic community is very diverse. it is a grouping that is predicated by language and culture, not ethnicity.

 

[DreamAgain]

The illusion doesn't matter if you are getting laid easier while boosting your confidence. Nichemaxing is basically the dating version strategy of "Targeted Marketing". The "Mass Marketing" approach only works for Chads/Tyrones or the Golden Retriever types that appeal to the largest market base.

Go on wikipedia, search the central limit theorem, and you will realize that niche maxing is no more a statistically probable course of action than any other maxing. You will not be getting laid easier.

You only will, if and only if, you are amorphous with your niches, therefor you are not genuinely belonging to only one niche, but play multiple distributions solely for the purposes of getting women.

This could work. But, you would have to be a very good actor for a very prolonged period of time, and it would almost require split personalities. I can't imagine this strategy working for long term relationships, but for one night hookups, sure it can.

 

[BadBoy89]

If a man wants to date "down" to get a LTR, he can, but he shouldn't need SoSuave for it. Men "instinctively" know what to do when the woman is less attractive than them, or old, or menopausal, or fat, or a single mother.

When men get *a little* uncertain about how to behave is when the girl is 18-29 and hot. That is where all the competition among men is for. No man really cares about any woman over 35.

 

[The Duke]

If a man wants to date "down" to get a LTR, he can, but he shouldn't need SoSuave for it. Men "instinctively" know what to do when the woman is less attractive than them, or old, or menopausal, or fat, or a single mother.

When men get *a little* uncertain about how to behave is when the girl is 18-29 and hot. That is where all the competition among men is for. No man really cares about any woman over 35.

Numerous examples on this forum of individuals with zero instincts that can't even get girls at all.