Wanna date successfully? Date DOWN!!

[Millard Fillmore]

You aren't going to attract a girl with just frame alone and frame can fluctuate. Let's say you got a hotter girl by niche maxxing and being the only available option at the time, and your frame becomes soft due to life stress or something. She is likely to either start acting masculine or leave you on the spot.

I didn't say frame alone is for attracting women, although it's a small part of it. Frame is for being true to yourself and not being afraid to lose something. Any time it becomes soft that's an issue which goes to the point.

 

[ThisIsSparta]

So what you guys are saying is.....

a man, looking for a LTR/wife that rates himself (lets say) an 8 and is dating down to a 6.5 or 7 is basically dating an ugly woman/scraping the bottom of the barrel and therefore a loser. Because, he is supposed to be doing "whatever it takes" to get what YOU deem to be a 9.5.

The delusion is real amongst you, "players".

 

[Mike32ct]

You can date down, but you still need to find her reasonably attractive (to you).

If not, she will sense the lack of attraction and preemptively dump you.

 

[BPH]

What's with this forum lately?

First you get guys saying they don't use condoms because they filter out sluts and "can just tell"...

Now we have a thread about "dating down" and "within your league" if you want to be happy long term?

This just seems like cope for people who aren't willing to self-improve to the point where they're able to get the women they want. When I go out to the bar, I don't look for ugly bitches that I think I can pull "because I'm hotter", I look for the girls that I want, and then I either close or I don't. **** this "settling" bull****.

Let me tell you a story...

When I was in 8th grade I was very unpopular; I was skinny, didn't know how to dress well, didn't play sports, didn't have too many friends, and people thought I might be gay because I hadn't kissed a girl yet. There was a girl who transferred to our school and word got out that she had a crush on me. EVERYBODY lost their **** and were constantly coming up to me telling me I should ask her out. I didn't find her attractive, I said no.

They all thought I was CRAZY! Somebody actually likes BPH and he's rejecting HER?!

Yeah...so instead I began working out, started playing football, got out of my comfort zone to cold approach girls and get better at talking to them, surrounded myself with friends that had traits I wanted in myself, and if you've read my journal or seen my notch count mentioned, I think I do pretty well these days.

Absolutely **** this defeatest-ass "settle if you want to be happy" BS.

 

[CornbreadFed]

This just seems like cope for people who aren't willing to self-improve to the point where they're able to get the women they want. When I go out to the bar, I don't look for ugly bitches that I think I can pull "because I'm hotter", I look for the girls that I want, and then I either close or I don't. **** this "settling" bull****.

You are not getting the full picture. If you are naturally attracting unattractive women, then you need practice self-improvement. The whole goal is to be at a point where a 7-8 is considered below your standards and manageable. 9-10s are not dateable and for monetization or street use only regardless of the male. The guys punching above their weight or dating a 9 and above are in losing positions outside having a hot girl. Frame is variable, relying on frame and external factors is like living in a house of cards. For a girl to submit you fully and maintain her femineity, you need that strong physical attraction from her.

 

[BPH]

You are not getting the full picture. If you are naturally attracting unattractive women, then you need practice self-improvement.

The OP and replies I'm reading are NOT about self-improvement here.

 

[CornbreadFed]

The OP and replies I'm reading are NOT about self-improvement here.

Remember attraction is dependent on the eyes of the beholder. An 8 to you could be a 4 to me depending on what features you find attractive or not.

 

[EyeBRollin]

The OP is factual. Even if you punch above your weight, she will not respect you as much as she should. You don’t be who she truly wants. It’s just female nature.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

This is only partially true. Though, perhaps what applies to average to below average men doesn't apply to higher SMV men. Reason I say this, is that in my experience and the experience of a couple of my high SMV friends, when we date down, we tend to have miserable experiences. Mid women are far more entitled and delusional and overall more bvtchy than hot women, who tend to be much nicer (although hot women also do tend to be more crazy).

I do think some of that might be inferiority complex/ego based. Maybe a less attractive women in the 3-5 range is happy to get with a 5-6 guy and so this trend I described doesn't apply to her. I think "mid" girls are the most entitled and delusional because they actually get even more attention from men than hot women do.

If we're talking about wives though, yeah marrying a 9 or 10, maybe even an 8 is a bad idea unless you're a legit 10 yourself in which case you probably aren't looking for marriage. If you're an 8 or 9, you should probably marry a 7 or 8. If you're a 7, marrying an 8 or 9 is a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[BPH]

If you agree with OP then I don't know what you're doing here...

This is supposed to be a place for men to self-improve while dating and bedding the type of women they desire - not the leftovers, thinking they'll be easier (they're entitled too, thank online dating and OnlyFans for that).

 

[CornbreadFed]

If you agree with OP then I don't know what you're doing here...

This is supposed to be a place for men to self-improve while dating and bedding the type of women they desire - not the leftovers, thinking they'll be easier (they're entitled too, thank online dating and OnlyFans for that).

You are just as delusional as the entitled OnlyFans and OLD women if you think you are going to bed and date a 9-10/10 with nothing to offer but frame and mouthpiece.

 

[BPH]

You are just as delusional as the entitled OnlyFans and OLD women if you think you are going to bed and date a 9-10/10 with nothing to offer but frame and mouthpiece.

When the **** did I say any of that?

I don't know why you're so hung up on MY replies specifically.

My advice is simply not to settle. You want to **** the prom queen? Cool, go be the kind of guy the prom queen wants to **** - don't start with the band geeks.

 

[DreamAgain]

Self improvement has its limits.

There seems to be a subset of guys here that think unsuccessful people are unsuccessful just because they are lazy. If they were determined enough, they could do anything.

Frankly this is just untrue. The human mind for almost all of us has a finite capacity for concentration. The ability to focus relentlessly and to work tirelessly beyond repetitive manual labour is not attainable for everyone.

But fine, even if you obtain the reasonable goals, getting in good enough shape, dressing well, increasing your income to reasonable middle class levels, you are still going to be left out in this world of hypergamy unless you follow OP's advice.

The young guys who aren't as experienced won't understand what OP is saying, but those that have had life humble them will realize very acutely he is speaking the truth.

 

[BPH]

Self improvement has its limits.

There seems to be a subset of guys here that think unsuccessful people are unsuccessful just because they are lazy. If they were determined enough, they could do anything.

Frankly this is just untrue. The human mind for almost all of us has a finite capacity for concentration. The ability to focus relentlessly and to work tirelessly beyond repetitive manual labour is not attainable for everyone.

But fine, even if you obtain the reasonable goals, getting in good enough shape, dressing well, increasing your income to reasonable middle class levels, you are still going to be left out in this world of hypergamy unless you follow OP's advice.

The young guys who aren't as experienced won't understand what OP is saying, but those that have had life humble them will realize very acutely he is speaking the truth.

I'm not saying everybody in here can be Leonardo DiCaprio or Andrew Tate, but to act like settling is the way to happiness with women is such a soft mindset, and goes against what this forum is about.

But hey, if you guys wanna aim low and take the the 5s and 6s out of the game, that's fine, more for me.

 

[DreamAgain]

I'm not saying everybody in here can be Leonardo DiCaprio or Andrew Tate, but to act like settling is the way to happiness with women is such a soft mindset, and goes against what this forum is about.

But hey, if you guys wanna aim low and take the the 5s and 6s out of the game, that's fine, more for me.

What are your goals? Do you want a wife and kids?

 

[Plinco]

Self improvement has its limits.

There seems to be a subset of guys here that think unsuccessful people are unsuccessful just because they are lazy. If they were determined enough, they could do anything.

Frankly this is just untrue. The human mind for almost all of us has a finite capacity for concentration. The ability to focus relentlessly and to work tirelessly beyond repetitive manual labour is not attainable for everyone.

But fine, even if you obtain the reasonable goals, getting in good enough shape, dressing well, increasing your income to reasonable middle class levels, you are still going to be left out in this world of hypergamy unless you follow OP's advice.

The young guys who aren't as experienced won't understand what OP is saying, but those that have had life humble them will realize very acutely he is speaking the truth.

If your best isn't good enough, then you can always better your best.

 

[BPH]

What are your goals? Do you want a wife and kids?

Of course, just not now.

My goals for marriage are the same goals I started with when I came to this forum and just wanted to get laid:

I want to choose. Not settle for whoever chooses me.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

With effort, any man can improve his attractiveness to a range between 7 and 8.5

Nope.

 

[DreamAgain]

Nope.

The thing these guys don't understand is basic statistics. If everyone improved as much as they possibly could you would still have everyone distributed by a bell curve. And if they understood the central limit theorem then things would be even clearer.

 

[DreamAgain]

Of course, just not now.

My goals for marriage are the same goals I started with when I came to this forum and just wanted to get laid:

I want to choose. Not settle for whoever chooses me.

Everyone has these goals, but over time you realize what the market offers in 2024 and realize how much of an uphill battle it is.

Of course I want you to succeed and not settle. I don't think this is a zero sum game where your win is my loss. But until you have actually started seriously dating women and contemplating putting a ring on their finger, deciding how many kids to have, you are just a theoretician with no understanding how the market is in 2024.

I say that with earnest conjugality and not in a pejorative sense against you. But you haven't expressed any writing here to suggest you would understand the stark difference of risking your own assets and freedom with a woman versus just using them as toys for sexual pleasure.