Unpopular Opinion: I feel muscles are overrated.

[SW15]

I rarely see muscular jacked normies with attractive women.

What is a muscular, jacked normie? Having big muscles could make someone outside of normie range.

Are you referring to men who are about 5'8" - 5'10" with big muscles?

 

[TheGrindEqualsHappiness]

quick recap of the thread:

..chicks dont dig too muscular dudes..

Just skip the juice, problem solved

..return on investment for getting chicks..blah..blah..

Don't lift for chicks. Lift for yourself. For your soul.

It's passively attracting women while the method you talk about you must be using them actively.

This sums it up.
The difference between marketing and selling, marketing is much more efficient.

I still think game is more important than looks and there's really no way around good game.
But today you can really scale the marketing side with IG and rest of the apps.

And since muscles and working out are not an either/or proposition there is no reason why you couldn't have both.

This is also on point.
It's much easier to get good in the game when your physique and mind is up to par.
Lifting is not only for your physique, it's also for your mind. the weaker you are, the more you hate lifting, the more you benefit from it.

 

[CornbreadFed]

What is a muscular, jacked normie? Having big muscles could make someone outside of normie range.

Are you referring to men who are about 5'8" - 5'10" with big muscles?

Any guy with overly big muscles or that bodybuilding low body fat look that isn't an actor or athlete.

 

[Smok1nAce]

muscles are not overrated.

gaining muscles to attract women is overrated.

 

[CornbreadFed]

muscles are not overrated.

It depends, someone that casually lifts and it is obvious it doesn't rule 80% or more of their life can be attractive to women.

 

[TheGrindEqualsHappiness]

I think women like natural muscles more than juiced pumped up bodies.

The person in your the picture is in a competition shape, in a condition that's possible to keep few days, week or two max at the time. Basically no matter the ped usage.Not a off-season shape..
When it comes to bodyfat% the condition of typical male underwear model is maintainable with dedication and decent genetics.

This is pretty much what's in store with good genetics and years of work drug free:



I guarantee too much muscle is not going to happen by accident for anyone.

 

[Smok1nAce]

Why? Oh I know, you throw the line of "I do it for myself" bull$hit. Every man wants female companionship, its in the dna, and one of the easiest way to attract females is having a muscular body and you feel confident in doing it.

Same as learning game, we all want the same thing just using different tools, but the only difference is that having a great body sets you apart instantly and improves your health.

The only reason that notion is thrown around is because most dudes get into muscle building to attract women and society shuns men into embracing their testosterone.

Same way a women likes to have dogs because its in their nature to nurture, their is nothing wrong with using your god given strength and testosterone as a man to build yourself up.

Living in the wild 10,000 years ago meant you had to defend and hunt on your own accord if necessary. A weak man with no muscle would be lunch meat for predators, while a muscular testosterone filled man would be eating lunch...you get the idea. Its in our nature, yes sure at the end of the day mostly everything we do is a biological urge to reproduce, but we still need to survive and thrive.

The fact that I even have to debate this shows the lack of weak men we have today running around with their small minded idiosyncrasy with the facts of life.

 

[Smok1nAce]

I started in the gym because I thought biceps got girls.

I was wrong.

Muscles get looks from girls, but they do nothing other than make you 'eye candy'. If you don't have game, your muscles don't mean anything.

Don't be a gymcel.

P.S if you start getting too big/too fit, you will start to get less IOIs from average-ish looking women. They literally start thinking they don't qualify to you and no longer try or trust your advances (direct feedback I've gotten from more than one girl who was 'above average looking').

I started lifting because I wanted to fight someone who had 50lb on me and defend myself (had dudes showing up to my house looking for me). Now I just lift to keep my test levels up and it keeps me young.

You exactly right about women eyeing you and average women being a little intimated by you.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I would say 12%-20% should be the goal for normie men active in the gym.

 

[TheGrindEqualsHappiness]

Every man wants female companionship, its in the dna

One way to look this causality is this funny quote from David Buss:s interview:
"Human males are 100 000 year breeding project ran by women."

Meaning that pretty much all the things that fill the need for female hypergamy feel really good for men.
- Big, strong body - check
- Being high on social status hierarchy - check
- Having acceptance and positive feedback from your peers - check
- Doing hard thigs and succeeding - check
..list is really endless..

What I mean by this is that I'm pretty sure that its indeed in our genetic code that these things feel good. But they feel good irrespective whether we do them to get women or not.

For example I would suggest on working to get wealthy for yourself not for getting women.

 

[pipeman84]

I would say 12%-20% should be the goal for normie men active in the gym.

I think BF is just half of the story ... if one doesn't lift weights, one can be at 15% BF and look flabby and low T (lack of V-taper does that). The classic comparison between a marathon runner and a sprinter. Both have low BF %.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I think BF is just half of the story ... if one doesn't lift weights, one can be at 15% BF and look flabby and low T (lack of V-taper does that). The classic comparison between a marathon runner and a sprinter. Both have low BF %.

The sprinter is juiced out of his ass and the marathoner is running a minimum of 100 miles / week over the recommended amount. Bad analogy and bad comparison. Professional athletes are also on PEDs.

 

[pipeman84]

The sprinter is juiced out of his ass and the marathoner is running a minimum of 100 miles / week over the recommended amount. Bad analogy and bad comparison. Professional athletes are also on PEDs.

OK, fair point. A better comparison would be between famous actors/singers back in the 40s-50s and the bodybuilders from that era (pre steroids.)
Here for instance Elvis Presley at 26 vs Steve Reeves at around 33

 

[HaleyBaron]

OK, fair point. A better comparison would be between famous actors/singers back in the 40s-50s and the bodybuilders from that era (pre steroids.)
Here for instance Elvis Presley at 26 vs Steve Reeves at around 33

All this time, I never saw Elvis's real body. I always seen him in suits. Damn, that's a sad skinnyfat body.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Maybe.

Even without gear though, sprinters will always carry more muscle than marathon runners. Your body will go catabolic during long bouts of cardio.

Yes and also the type of training leads to a change in the type of muscle fibers.

Sprinters/strength training/explosive workouts lead to more Fast-Twitch muscle fibers versus endurance training that leads to more Slow-Twitch muscle fibers.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Does it change the actual muscle fiber type or does it just selectively train the respective muscle fiber, making that the more dominant fiber type?

I do believe the muscle fibers themselves do not change, but that they are just selectively trained. Could be wrong, I haven't read into this anytime recently as it has little to no practical value.

This seems to suggest the actual muscle cells themselves change...

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysiol.00687.2017#:~:text=It%20is%20known%20that%20endurance,of%20slow%2Dtwitch%20muscle%20fibers

.

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

I recently reviewed my opinion about muscles.

I still think they are a huge asset when it comes of attracting women but not the final weapon we may think.

I would say being in good shape with the basic boxes ticked gets you most of the benefits while an elite looking body while granting more bonuses gives inferior marginal returns.

I mean being lean and well shaped gets you 80% of the bonus while being elite only grants the remaning 20% but at a higher cost that could backfire in other equally important fields.

I believe your "life style" is as important as your looks.

By life style I dont mean money or status but how you express them in terms of venues you attend, foods you get and overall social life.

In order to get an elite body you have to cut certain foods (and their amount), alchool while keeping your sleeping routine tight which in my opinion doesnt grant the same benefits of an entertaining life style where you can invite women.

Even if you are into performances, you dont need unnecessary muscle mass wheter you're a fighter or a simple sport player.

A middle weight boxer body with some extra work on your delts is all you need in most cases to keep a good ration between being physically attractive and free to move in terms of life habits.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

I am currently deconditioned. I've put on about 15lbs, and while the infrastructure of my figure is still there, big arms, big back, v-taper, strong lower body, I don't like not having flat pecs or not being as vascular.

This new gym bunny I'm seeing a lot of is in fighting shape and is a crazy little sexy strumpet. She tells me how much she loves my body, repeatedly, with no prompting.

Know your market. If most men in your age range are less conditioned than you are, you're a gem among men to a woman.

Just like in business, you always dress one level above your peers.

I enjoy being an outlier; it has its advantages, so I'm working back to the shape I was. Diet, volume, consistency.

I do it for me because I like the way I look and feel when I'm in fighting form.

That attractive women in social venues grab my arms because they cannot help themselves is a plus or when a group of much younger women out in nightlife walk past and say, "Damnnnnnn Daddy!". Or when I'm lining up for Hakkasan or Light with my date, promoters pull us out of the line and put us in the VIP line.

If you look the part, you get the gig.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I recently reviewed my opinion about muscles.

I still think they are a huge asset when it comes of attracting women but not the final weapon we may think.

I would say being in good shape with the basic boxes ticked gets you most of the benefits while an elite looking body while granting more bonuses gives inferior marginal returns.

I mean being lean and well shaped gets you 80% of the bonus while being elite only grants the remaning 20% but at a higher cost that could backfire in other equally important fields.

I believe your "life style" is as important as your looks.

By life style I dont mean money or status but how you express them in terms of venues you attend, foods you get and overall social life.

In order to get an elite body you have to cut certain foods (and their amount), alchool while keeping your sleeping routine tight which in my opinion doesnt grant the same benefits of an entertaining life style where you can invite women.

Even if you are into performances, you dont need unnecessary muscle mass wheter you're a fighter or a simple sport player.

A middle weight boxer body with some extra work on your delts is all you need in most cases to keep a good ration between being physically attractive and free to move in terms of life habits.

You should be cutting alcohol regardless of what type of shape you are trying to get in. It only imparts negative effects on the body, especially in the form of adding estrogenic compounds to most men who already have far too much estrogen bombarding their bodies daily to begin with.

 

[Ricky]

I think the muscles should be for your own health and confidence

Peter Attia says its good to be at the top of your age group for muscle and vo2 max. You don't have to be a bodybuilder to be a top 10% guy and you don't have to be a one trick endurance person to be at the top 10% of the VO2 max for your age group.