Unpopular Opinion: I feel muscles are overrated.

[BackInTheGame78]

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I've done that for years. Don't recommend. All it leads to is you having to work hard to get lean during the spring and end up back at the same spot.

Unless you are on steroids your best bet would be to put it on slowly be being in a 200-300 calorie surplus.

 

[sangheilios]

I've done that for years. Don't recommend. All it leads to is you having to work hard to get lean during the spring and end up back at the same spot.

Unless you are on steroids your best bet would be to put it on slowly be being in a 200-300 calorie surplus.

You are totally correct. People go on these "bulks" and just end up getting fat and having to spend months to drop the excess weight, basically just going back to where they started lol. Best way is to make very slow and steady progress and maintain within a 10 pound range or so. You gain a few pounds of fat when "bulking" instead of something like going from 10-15% bf to 25%+. A ton of guys into lifting that you see at the gym are legitimately overweight.

 

[Divorced w 3]

I've done that for years. Don't recommend. All it leads to is you having to work hard to get lean during the spring and end up back at the same spot.

Unless you are on steroids your best bet would be to put it on slowly be being in a 200-300 calorie surplus.

It’s so funny, I haven’t legitimately been on a weight training routine in like 6 months. I started working farther from my house and dating a girl about an hour away and I just put an emphasis after awhile on body weight work and periodic HIIT. Before you call me soft I am playing free safety on my flag football team laying wood haha

 

[soulforge]

You are totally correct. People go on these "bulks" and just end up getting fat and having to spend months to drop the excess weight, basically just going back to where they started lol. Best way is to make very slow and steady progress and maintain within a 10 pound range or so. You gain a few pounds of fat when "bulking" instead of something like going from 10-15% bf to 25%+. A ton of guys into lifting that you see at the gym are legitimately overweight.

I lift heavy and generally only eat one meal a day.. and maybe a little snack.

Have gotten lean and gained/mentained muscle all at the same time.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

 

[Manure Spherian]

Anyone else believe men put far too much focus on muscles?

In my opinion, as long as you're not fat, you're good. So why not spend less time trying to get muscles and more time developing social skills?

I believe these are the most important factors (for pulling women at bars):

1.) Social Energy / Fun / Charisma
2.) Height
3.) Looks
4.) Money
5.) Muscles

In other words, I believe being tall and funny / high energy and charismatic will always outpull anything in a social environment.

Money doesn't matter as no one can really tell how rich you are at a bar, unless you're doing cheesy stuff like flashing brand name sh*t.
Muscles are nice but the ROI just doesn't seem to be there.

-

I'd trade an inch off my d*ck, a zero from my net worth, and 2 points from my looks to be the tall high energy funny guy.
(When I say tall I mean like 6'2"+ )

Although in some ways “all women are like that,” there are differences amongst them and not all put priority or are turned by the same things. And I believe trying to figure them all out is a cope. Men who attract women or have women do not speak as if they have all of them figured out.

For the most part, women do not give a damn about huge muscles, physically fit men do have an advantage with a portion of women.

The same goes for money. Not all women have a stipulation that their suitors be high-earning, but some do, and will not give a broke man the time or day.

And the same goes for being a tall clown, as you mentioned here. Some women have stipulations for height and for the ability “makes them laugh”. Others do not.

I actually think I would have attracted more women in my younger years if I had clown game (no, I’m not joking). My wife and other women who know me think I’m funny, though I don’t try to be. But that’s likely from my innate, unintentionally animated, tell-it-like-it-is, quirky personality.

Being a clown is more effective in attraction for a chunk of the female population in the current day, as are other things that have no utility.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

See, but here is what you fail to realize.

Muscles do a lot more talking for you than your mouth ever could and they do it 24/7/365 even when you aren't paying attention to a woman or minding your own business or don't even see a woman who is checking you out from across the way.

It's passively attracting women while the method you talk about you must be using them actively.

And since muscles and working out are not an either/or proposition there is no reason why you couldn't have both. This sounds like a cope or a way to try and convince yourself that it's OK to not work on yourself in this area because "it's overrated".

 

[CornbreadFed]

I rarely see muscular jacked normies with attractive women.

 

[SW15]

I rarely see muscular jacked normies with attractive women.

What is a muscular, jacked normie? Having big muscles could make someone outside of normie range.

Are you referring to men who are about 5'8" - 5'10" with big muscles?

 

[TheGrindEqualsHappiness]

quick recap of the thread:

..chicks dont dig too muscular dudes..

Just skip the juice, problem solved

..return on investment for getting chicks..blah..blah..

Don't lift for chicks. Lift for yourself. For your soul.

It's passively attracting women while the method you talk about you must be using them actively.

This sums it up.
The difference between marketing and selling, marketing is much more efficient.

I still think game is more important than looks and there's really no way around good game.
But today you can really scale the marketing side with IG and rest of the apps.

And since muscles and working out are not an either/or proposition there is no reason why you couldn't have both.

This is also on point.
It's much easier to get good in the game when your physique and mind is up to par.
Lifting is not only for your physique, it's also for your mind. the weaker you are, the more you hate lifting, the more you benefit from it.

 

[CornbreadFed]

What is a muscular, jacked normie? Having big muscles could make someone outside of normie range.

Are you referring to men who are about 5'8" - 5'10" with big muscles?

Any guy with overly big muscles or that bodybuilding low body fat look that isn't an actor or athlete.

 

[Smok1nAce]

muscles are not overrated.

gaining muscles to attract women is overrated.

 

[CornbreadFed]

muscles are not overrated.

It depends, someone that casually lifts and it is obvious it doesn't rule 80% or more of their life can be attractive to women.

 

[TheGrindEqualsHappiness]

I think women like natural muscles more than juiced pumped up bodies.

The person in your the picture is in a competition shape, in a condition that's possible to keep few days, week or two max at the time. Basically no matter the ped usage.Not a off-season shape..
When it comes to bodyfat% the condition of typical male underwear model is maintainable with dedication and decent genetics.

This is pretty much what's in store with good genetics and years of work drug free:



I guarantee too much muscle is not going to happen by accident for anyone.

 

[Smok1nAce]

Why? Oh I know, you throw the line of "I do it for myself" bull$hit. Every man wants female companionship, its in the dna, and one of the easiest way to attract females is having a muscular body and you feel confident in doing it.

Same as learning game, we all want the same thing just using different tools, but the only difference is that having a great body sets you apart instantly and improves your health.

The only reason that notion is thrown around is because most dudes get into muscle building to attract women and society shuns men into embracing their testosterone.

Same way a women likes to have dogs because its in their nature to nurture, their is nothing wrong with using your god given strength and testosterone as a man to build yourself up.

Living in the wild 10,000 years ago meant you had to defend and hunt on your own accord if necessary. A weak man with no muscle would be lunch meat for predators, while a muscular testosterone filled man would be eating lunch...you get the idea. Its in our nature, yes sure at the end of the day mostly everything we do is a biological urge to reproduce, but we still need to survive and thrive.

The fact that I even have to debate this shows the lack of weak men we have today running around with their small minded idiosyncrasy with the facts of life.

 

[Smok1nAce]

I started in the gym because I thought biceps got girls.

I was wrong.

Muscles get looks from girls, but they do nothing other than make you 'eye candy'. If you don't have game, your muscles don't mean anything.

Don't be a gymcel.

P.S if you start getting too big/too fit, you will start to get less IOIs from average-ish looking women. They literally start thinking they don't qualify to you and no longer try or trust your advances (direct feedback I've gotten from more than one girl who was 'above average looking').

I started lifting because I wanted to fight someone who had 50lb on me and defend myself (had dudes showing up to my house looking for me). Now I just lift to keep my test levels up and it keeps me young.

You exactly right about women eyeing you and average women being a little intimated by you.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I would say 12%-20% should be the goal for normie men active in the gym.

 

[TheGrindEqualsHappiness]

Every man wants female companionship, its in the dna

One way to look this causality is this funny quote from David Buss:s interview:
"Human males are 100 000 year breeding project ran by women."

Meaning that pretty much all the things that fill the need for female hypergamy feel really good for men.
- Big, strong body - check
- Being high on social status hierarchy - check
- Having acceptance and positive feedback from your peers - check
- Doing hard thigs and succeeding - check
..list is really endless..

What I mean by this is that I'm pretty sure that its indeed in our genetic code that these things feel good. But they feel good irrespective whether we do them to get women or not.

For example I would suggest on working to get wealthy for yourself not for getting women.

 

[pipeman84]

I would say 12%-20% should be the goal for normie men active in the gym.

I think BF is just half of the story ... if one doesn't lift weights, one can be at 15% BF and look flabby and low T (lack of V-taper does that). The classic comparison between a marathon runner and a sprinter. Both have low BF %.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I think BF is just half of the story ... if one doesn't lift weights, one can be at 15% BF and look flabby and low T (lack of V-taper does that). The classic comparison between a marathon runner and a sprinter. Both have low BF %.

The sprinter is juiced out of his ass and the marathoner is running a minimum of 100 miles / week over the recommended amount. Bad analogy and bad comparison. Professional athletes are also on PEDs.