Unpopular Opinion: I feel muscles are overrated.

[Smok1nAce]

I started in the gym because I thought biceps got girls.

I was wrong.

Muscles get looks from girls, but they do nothing other than make you 'eye candy'. If you don't have game, your muscles don't mean anything.

Don't be a gymcel.

P.S if you start getting too big/too fit, you will start to get less IOIs from average-ish looking women. They literally start thinking they don't qualify to you and no longer try or trust your advances (direct feedback I've gotten from more than one girl who was 'above average looking').

I started lifting because I wanted to fight someone who had 50lb on me and defend myself (had dudes showing up to my house looking for me). Now I just lift to keep my test levels up and it keeps me young.

You exactly right about women eyeing you and average women being a little intimated by you.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I would say 12%-20% should be the goal for normie men active in the gym.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I would say 12%-20% should be the goal for normie men active in the gym.

I have about 17-18%.
And I don't workout, just eat healthy and ride my bicycle around.

And some martial arts training.

 

[TheGrindEqualsHappiness]

Every man wants female companionship, its in the dna

One way to look this causality is this funny quote from David Buss:s interview:
"Human males are 100 000 year breeding project ran by women."

Meaning that pretty much all the things that fill the need for female hypergamy feel really good for men.
- Big, strong body - check
- Being high on social status hierarchy - check
- Having acceptance and positive feedback from your peers - check
- Doing hard thigs and succeeding - check
..list is really endless..

What I mean by this is that I'm pretty sure that its indeed in our genetic code that these things feel good. But they feel good irrespective whether we do them to get women or not.

For example I would suggest on working to get wealthy for yourself not for getting women.

 

[pipeman84]

I would say 12%-20% should be the goal for normie men active in the gym.

I think BF is just half of the story ... if one doesn't lift weights, one can be at 15% BF and look flabby and low T (lack of V-taper does that). The classic comparison between a marathon runner and a sprinter. Both have low BF %.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I think BF is just half of the story ... if one doesn't lift weights, one can be at 15% BF and look flabby and low T (lack of V-taper does that). The classic comparison between a marathon runner and a sprinter. Both have low BF %.

The sprinter is juiced out of his ass and the marathoner is running a minimum of 100 miles / week over the recommended amount. Bad analogy and bad comparison. Professional athletes are also on PEDs.

 

[pipeman84]

The sprinter is juiced out of his ass and the marathoner is running a minimum of 100 miles / week over the recommended amount. Bad analogy and bad comparison. Professional athletes are also on PEDs.

OK, fair point. A better comparison would be between famous actors/singers back in the 40s-50s and the bodybuilders from that era (pre steroids.)
Here for instance Elvis Presley at 26 vs Steve Reeves at around 33

 

[HaleyBaron]

OK, fair point. A better comparison would be between famous actors/singers back in the 40s-50s and the bodybuilders from that era (pre steroids.)
Here for instance Elvis Presley at 26 vs Steve Reeves at around 33

All this time, I never saw Elvis's real body. I always seen him in suits. Damn, that's a sad skinnyfat body.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Maybe.

Even without gear though, sprinters will always carry more muscle than marathon runners. Your body will go catabolic during long bouts of cardio.

Yes and also the type of training leads to a change in the type of muscle fibers.

Sprinters/strength training/explosive workouts lead to more Fast-Twitch muscle fibers versus endurance training that leads to more Slow-Twitch muscle fibers.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Does it change the actual muscle fiber type or does it just selectively train the respective muscle fiber, making that the more dominant fiber type?

I do believe the muscle fibers themselves do not change, but that they are just selectively trained. Could be wrong, I haven't read into this anytime recently as it has little to no practical value.

This seems to suggest the actual muscle cells themselves change...

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysiol.00687.2017#:~:text=It%20is%20known%20that%20endurance,of%20slow%2Dtwitch%20muscle%20fibers

.

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

I recently reviewed my opinion about muscles.

I still think they are a huge asset when it comes of attracting women but not the final weapon we may think.

I would say being in good shape with the basic boxes ticked gets you most of the benefits while an elite looking body while granting more bonuses gives inferior marginal returns.

I mean being lean and well shaped gets you 80% of the bonus while being elite only grants the remaning 20% but at a higher cost that could backfire in other equally important fields.

I believe your "life style" is as important as your looks.

By life style I dont mean money or status but how you express them in terms of venues you attend, foods you get and overall social life.

In order to get an elite body you have to cut certain foods (and their amount), alchool while keeping your sleeping routine tight which in my opinion doesnt grant the same benefits of an entertaining life style where you can invite women.

Even if you are into performances, you dont need unnecessary muscle mass wheter you're a fighter or a simple sport player.

A middle weight boxer body with some extra work on your delts is all you need in most cases to keep a good ration between being physically attractive and free to move in terms of life habits.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

In order to get an elite body you have to cut certain foods (and their amount), alchool while keeping your sleeping routine tight which in my opinion doesnt grant the same benefits of an entertaining life style where you can invite women.

Like me, you're in the EU. American food portions are ridiculous to Europeans, American small portions are still twice that of regular European food portions. Add to the dependence on motorised vehicles for transport and travel, and exercise comes at a premium too. Staying fit and healthy without going to the gym like in the EU is pretty much impossible for Americans.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

I am currently deconditioned. I've put on about 15lbs, and while the infrastructure of my figure is still there, big arms, big back, v-taper, strong lower body, I don't like not having flat pecs or not being as vascular.

This new gym bunny I'm seeing a lot of is in fighting shape and is a crazy little sexy strumpet. She tells me how much she loves my body, repeatedly, with no prompting.

Know your market. If most men in your age range are less conditioned than you are, you're a gem among men to a woman.

Just like in business, you always dress one level above your peers.

I enjoy being an outlier; it has its advantages, so I'm working back to the shape I was. Diet, volume, consistency.

I do it for me because I like the way I look and feel when I'm in fighting form.

That attractive women in social venues grab my arms because they cannot help themselves is a plus or when a group of much younger women out in nightlife walk past and say, "Damnnnnnn Daddy!". Or when I'm lining up for Hakkasan or Light with my date, promoters pull us out of the line and put us in the VIP line.

If you look the part, you get the gig.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I recently reviewed my opinion about muscles.

I still think they are a huge asset when it comes of attracting women but not the final weapon we may think.

I would say being in good shape with the basic boxes ticked gets you most of the benefits while an elite looking body while granting more bonuses gives inferior marginal returns.

I mean being lean and well shaped gets you 80% of the bonus while being elite only grants the remaning 20% but at a higher cost that could backfire in other equally important fields.

I believe your "life style" is as important as your looks.

By life style I dont mean money or status but how you express them in terms of venues you attend, foods you get and overall social life.

In order to get an elite body you have to cut certain foods (and their amount), alchool while keeping your sleeping routine tight which in my opinion doesnt grant the same benefits of an entertaining life style where you can invite women.

Even if you are into performances, you dont need unnecessary muscle mass wheter you're a fighter or a simple sport player.

A middle weight boxer body with some extra work on your delts is all you need in most cases to keep a good ration between being physically attractive and free to move in terms of life habits.

You should be cutting alcohol regardless of what type of shape you are trying to get in. It only imparts negative effects on the body, especially in the form of adding estrogenic compounds to most men who already have far too much estrogen bombarding their bodies daily to begin with.

 

[Ricky]

I think the muscles should be for your own health and confidence

Peter Attia says its good to be at the top of your age group for muscle and vo2 max. You don't have to be a bodybuilder to be a top 10% guy and you don't have to be a one trick endurance person to be at the top 10% of the VO2 max for your age group.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Fitbits that have SPO2 tracking and EKG capabilities combined with you posting your real weight or having a Aria scale post it to the app. It then will do the calculation and display your VO2Max in the heart rate section of the app.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Like me, you're in the EU. American food portions are ridiculous to Europeans, American small portions are still twice that of regular European food portions. Add to the dependence on motorised vehicles for transport and travel, and exercise comes at a premium too. Staying fit and healthy without going to the gym like in the EU is pretty much impossible for Americans.

Some Americans stay skinny in the US due to natural habits they were born with. I had to unlearn and learn a lot of new habits to be able to stay in shape here.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Like me, you're in the EU. American food portions are ridiculous to Europeans, American small portions are still twice that of regular European food portions. Add to the dependence on motorised vehicles for transport and travel, and exercise comes at a premium too. Staying fit and healthy without going to the gym like in the EU is pretty much impossible for Americans.

No it's not. It's a choice. People can choose to buy real, natural, unprocessed foods and cook them at their house like I do.

They choose to buy processed garbage or go out to eat at restaurants that serve processed garbage loaded with sodium and other things instead. They choose to drink sugary drinks and alcohol every day or many days a week. They choose to get coffee drinks every day from Starbucks that are 500 calories or more.

There is nothing hard about eating properly. It's actually really simple. It's not easy, but it's simple. People choose not to do it.

At the end of the day the only one responsible for what goes in your mouth on a daily basis is the person you wake up and see in the mirror every morning.

 

[CornbreadFed]

No it's not. It's a choice. People can choose to buy real, natural, unprocessed foods and cook them at their house like I do.

They choose to buy processed garbage or go out to eat at restaurants that serve processed garbage loaded with sodium and other things instead. They choose to drink sugary drinks and alcohol every day or many days a week. They choose to get coffee drinks every day from Starbucks that are 500 calories or more.

There is nothing hard about eating properly. It's actually really simple. It's not easy, but it's simple. People choose not to do it.

At the end of the day the only one responsible for what goes in your mouth on a daily basis is the person you wake up and see in the mirror every morning.

I seriously think the rugged individualism of America backfires on a lot of things and the weight issue is one of them. There is no real sense of community here in the states which means people do not care much about their appearance and think people should just accept them for who they are. In addition, Americans tend to genetics/inherit talent with victimization, so if you are fat it is because you have a low metabolism and cannot help it.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I seriously think the rugged individualism of America backfires on a lot of things and the weight issue is one of them. There is no real sense of community here in the states which means people do not care much about their appearance and think people should just accept them for who they are. In addition, Americans tend to genetics/inherit talent with victimization, so if you are fat it is because you have a low metabolism and cannot help it.

People also think doctors are there to fix all of their health problems so they don't have to take any responsibility for them themselves.