The Art of Seduction Book Study

[Microphone Fiend]

to me the ideal lover is the most commonly thought of form of seducer. Someone who adapts to his surroundings and expectations. it is the main aspect of speed seduction, and consists of concepts like:

Eliciting Values
Pacing
Time-Distortion


This is one of the many parts of the book that show how the seduction in this manner is a bit more drawn out and personal, where you pay attn to your target so that you can mold yourself accordingly, as opposed to just being 'that dude', the kinda guy she changes herself to become

Kinda rambling here but I'm trying to do to things at once, but i really wanna jumpstart this next topic coz we were on the last one for what seems like forever

 

[Reyaj]

You are right MF.. its been my bad as it took me a while to get to the last topic. Thanks to you and Jackal for posting your thoughts thus far on this one. I am going to add my feedback soon. In the mean time as always please share experiences from real life where you used this approach.....

 

[Create Reality]

Seduced by a Siren

Shame on me! I even read the ****ing book and I saw it (her) coming the third day into the hookup. That's the power of seduction; it defies logic. It's pure emotional grasp-u-by-the-neck-and-strangle-you b1tch-pimpery. I now see the value of spinning plates.

 

[BlackJackal]

I'll have my thoughts on this soon. Bu to be brief, to me an Ideal Lover is some who can bring out what you want to be and make it reality. The I.L. goes beyond superficial things and touches a person soul.

 

[Reyaj]

Ok I am very curious to hear everyone's thoughts. My issue/question with this character is similar to that of my crticism of the rake. By focusing too much attention on conforming yourself to a woman, isn't this considering supplicating or losing your individuality?

So it again raises the question... is it better to be an individual and let a woman like you because you are unique/interesting or conform/mirror her? I think it comes back to where the line must be drawn.

I would love to hear your real world examples of how adapting this character has worked or how it hasn't......

 

[BlackJackal]

Ok I am very curious to hear everyone's thoughts. My issue/question with this character is similar to that of my crticism of the rake. By focusing too much attention on conforming yourself to a woman, isn't this considering supplicating or losing your individuality?

So it again raises the question... is it better to be an individual and let a woman like you because you are unique/interesting or conform/mirror her? I think it comes back to where the line must be drawn.

I would love to hear your real world examples of how adapting this character has worked or how it hasn't......

I think one thing you need to realize is that when it comes to these characters, it's not as simple as picking one to play as. You are who you are. The trick to this section of the book is to try to find the one that matches your natural tendencies, and learning more about it. The reason I was able to emphasize on the Rake so much is because I really do relate to such a character.

In other words, that IS me. Get what I'm sayin? Now you can relate to more than one to some degree, but you'll always have that main one that'll be your core. With that said, the ideal lover is more about being a living fantasy of your victim, and/or allowing your victim to be the type of person they've always fantazied about being.

This is not simply about putting on a show, or becoming exactly as your target wants you to be. But like I said before it's not like you have to be this character just because it in the book. You may not relate to this type of person at all. The rake and siren aim at the animal impulses of their victims and using it against them. The ideal lover feeds off the imagination of there victims.

 

[BlackJackal]

Shame on me! I even read the ****ing book and I saw it (her) coming the third day into the hookup. That's the power of seduction; it defies logic. It's pure emotional grasp-u-by-the-neck-and-strangle-you b1tch-pimpery. I now see the value of spinning plates.

What makes her a siren?

 

[Reyaj]

I think one thing you need to realize is that when it comes to these characters, it's not as simple as picking one to play as. You are who you are. The trick to this section of the book is to try to find the one that matches your natural tendencies, and learning more about it. The reason I was able to emphasize on the Rake so much is because I really do relate to such a character.

In other words, that IS me. Get what I'm sayin? Now you can relate to more than one to some degree, but you'll always have that main one that'll be your core. With that said, the ideal lover is more about being a living fantasy of your victim, and/or allowing your victim to be the type of person they've always fantazied about being.

This is not simply about putting on a show, or becoming exactly as your target wants you to be. But like I said before it's not like you have to be this character just because it in the book. You may not relate to this type of person at all. The rake and siren aim at the animal impulses of their victims and using it against them. The ideal lover feeds off the imagination of there victims.

BlackJackal this makes sense. I definitely have learned with your examples of your rakish behavior that its a great approach only when you are 100% sure the girl is interested in you. I used it this weekend with this girl I had been seeing. I have very low IL in her but I've been in a slump and I figured it might jump start it. Well I had dated her for a while and we had always made out but nothing more. Well this time after I dropped her home I just started with her hardcore.. I started making out but moving my hands everywhere without any hesitation like I normal have had in the past. Well before I know it she invites me in... and we go all the way.

So yeah I definitely found that lesson to be important. Now back to the subject at hand... this Ideal Lover stuff seems like it requires the most work. Still the main points I take away from it that can be useful are that you must be sure you know what the women is looking for/lacking in her life. This can't neccesarily be done by listening to words either as we all know women say they won't 1 thing but bang another. Assuming you are able to figure this out you must create a very believable illusion of yourself and it can only last temperarily. Therefore this approach seems useful for short term flings....

Has anyone here had any experience using this tactic of the Ideal Lover to bed a women or do anything remote to that? Please share!

 

[Create Reality]

What makes her a siren?

She has a ****in sexy voice Its what turned me on to her initially

 

[BlackJackal]

She has a ****in sexy voice Its what turned me on to her initially

Lol...I mean like what did she do to get you caught up? And whats wrong with her turning you on?

 

[Microphone Fiend]

So yeah I definitely found that lesson to be important. Now back to the subject at hand... this Ideal Lover stuff seems like it requires the most work. Still the main points I take away from it that can be useful are that you must be sure you know what the women is looking for/lacking in her life. 1. This can't neccesarily be done by listening to words either as we all know women say they won't 1 thing but bang another. Assuming you are able to figure this out you must create a very believable illusion of yourself and it can only last temperarily. Therefore this approach seems useful for short term flings....

Has anyone here had any experience using this tactic of the Ideal Lover to bed a women or do anything remote to that? Please share!

1.) Well it is not ALWAYS done by just listening ut if what she says is congruent with what she does... then it is fair game or you should assume so. Hear is a post on the subject http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18104&highlight=eliciting+values

2.) yea. it works better short term then long term. You end up stepping your lies over time or get tired of keeping up the facade.


the way i see it, EV isnt about lying as much as it is about not telling the (complete) truth. Also, you want to show the two of you are compatible subtlely. Like if she says "I like big strong man" dont say "Im big and strong, one time i saved a cat from a tree with my bare hands!" because that is str8 out trying to impress her. Instead, subtlely show her with your actions and thoughs and ideas. After some time has passed and the comment is all but forgotten by her, relate a story about something you did that was 'manly' or w/e without coming out and saying it. Let her put 2 and 2 together.

if you think that what she says is not true or is not worth trying to prove you are competent in that manner, then ask her, "when you are around someone big and manly... how does that make you feel" (of course ask her in a way where it does not seem like someone told you to say it online) From there, if she says, "It makes me feel secure' then you can skip acting like you crack skulls and focus on making her feel secure...


As for any experience being the ideal lover, i think to some degree it is involved for a non-AFC to get laid. When the chick goes 'you must do this all the time' the non-AFC knows that she probably idealizes the player type subconsciously, and so telling her 'No i've been rejected for like 7 months straight" is not the best idea. If you pay attn as a seducer and roll with the punches you are becoming an ideal lover... you are thinking about what she is doing and adjusting to it to make yourself more desirable.

 

[Create Reality]

Lol...I mean like what did she do to get you caught up? And whats wrong with her turning you on?

woa bro don't get the wrong idea, heh. she was great at mirroring and i didn't realize it (wasn't looking for it) until she started getting sloppy. i was just glad to have a girl who would listen to my fantasies. this sh1t is textbook! now im laughing and kicking myself!

 

[Reyaj]

1.) Well it is not ALWAYS done by just listening ut if what she says is congruent with what she does... then it is fair game or you should assume so. Hear is a post on the subject http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18104&highlight=eliciting+values

2.) yea. it works better short term then long term. You end up stepping your lies over time or get tired of keeping up the facade.


the way i see it, EV isnt about lying as much as it is about not telling the (complete) truth. Also, you want to show the two of you are compatible subtlely. Like if she says "I like big strong man" dont say "Im big and strong, one time i saved a cat from a tree with my bare hands!" because that is str8 out trying to impress her. Instead, subtlely show her with your actions and thoughs and ideas. After some time has passed and the comment is all but forgotten by her, relate a story about something you did that was 'manly' or w/e without coming out and saying it. Let her put 2 and 2 together.

if you think that what she says is not true or is not worth trying to prove you are competent in that manner, then ask her, "when you are around someone big and manly... how does that make you feel" (of course ask her in a way where it does not seem like someone told you to say it online) From there, if she says, "It makes me feel secure' then you can skip acting like you crack skulls and focus on making her feel secure...


As for any experience being the ideal lover, i think to some degree it is involved for a non-AFC to get laid. When the chick goes 'you must do this all the time' the non-AFC knows that she probably idealizes the player type subconsciously, and so telling her 'No i've been rejected for like 7 months straight" is not the best idea. If you pay attn as a seducer and roll with the punches you are becoming an ideal lover... you are thinking about what she is doing and adjusting to it to make yourself more desirable.

Excellent point MF, I agree completely. If you do it the right way by exhibitng these actions subetly instead of trying to hard to acheive them where it looks like supplication, then this may be the greatest character ever.

Too many times people give up on women that require a little work. A true seducer at least gives it a good try if the girl is worth it (or at least hot enough lol) I mean there is a difference between a girl who is your LTR and a girl you just want to bed.

MF have you had any examples you can recall where you elicited a girl's values and you were successful please share.

Also I need some feedback on my approach journal

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77857&highlight=jayer

I did a few approaches this past weekend to no success but I need to get some feedback so I can stay motivated, even if its just a line or so.

:rockon:

 

[BlackJackal]

woa bro don't get the wrong idea, heh. she was great at mirroring and i didn't realize it (wasn't looking for it) until she started getting sloppy. i was just glad to have a girl who would listen to my fantasies. this sh1t is textbook! now im laughing and kicking myself!

Then she's probably more of an Ideal Lover, or a Charmer as well.

 

[Create Reality]

Then she's probably more of an Ideal Lover, or a Charmer as well.

Charmer mixed with siren qualities.

 

[Reyaj]

Great feedback... anything else or do we vote to move onto the next character?

Again once we finish all the characters I'm going to post my view on our discussions and would like the same from everyone.

 

[BlackJackal]

I vote for next character.

 

[Reyaj]

Alright no one else has opted to stay on the ideal lover so lets move on!

Everyone start reading "The Dandy" and post your thoughts

 

[SayWord?]

i finished reading the book in July.
great read
if someone applied everything in the book he/she would be very dangerous

 

[Create Reality]

Mystery seems like a good example of a Dandy. Peacocking seems to go hand-in-hand with this type.