The Art of Seduction Book Study

[BlackJackal]

MF that sounds similar to the club scenario I described lol

Did that girl end up being more attracted to you because of this?

Like I said the rake makes sense from the fact that the male is a sexual creature unashamed of his desires but I don't like how Greene plays the Rake to be a weak character under a woman's control.
Do you all agree with that?

MF I don't characterize myself as any character either but a little of all them. Still I want to see if any fundmental rules exist or work.

We can move on soon... but really curious as to how you see the Rake character being effective and for what reasons?

Do you agree with my opinion?

Well it's not so much as him saying that the rake is under a womans control, he just under the control of his desire for the woman. Which is about letting go and expressing that desire.

 

[Reyaj]

That makes more sense... but I thought I read somethign about him saying that this gives the woman control and that's why he becomes attractive.... I can look up the lines specifically if you want....

But yeah what you say makes more sense. And I think the idea of being the rake when you know she's into is key as opposed to making a fool of yourself!

 

[BlackJackal]

That makes more sense... but I thought I read somethign about him saying that this gives the woman control and that's why he becomes attractive.... I can look up the lines specifically if you want....

But yeah what you say makes more sense. And I think the idea of being the rake when you know she's into is key as opposed to making a fool of yourself!

Sure dig it out.

But I think you might be confusing the part where a woman may see the rake as the victim of women's desire for him. There are many different types of rakes, there all just based on similar principles.

The fact that the Rake is so devoted to women, in his own strange way, makes him lovable and seductive to them.

There are several things you must be known for:
1. your irresistable attractiveness to women
2. your uncontrollable devotion to pleasure
3.your disdain for convention
4.a rebellious streak that makes you seem dangerous/ incorrigible.

A woman may play it off as an attempt to tame a rake, or get him to commit. But really it just gives them an excuse to be under his influence. And it's usually the good girls that fall for him the most. The ones that wanted commitment from me and would normally withdraw if they felt that the man wouldn't commit, still ended up sleeping with me, and hanging around longer than they should've.

 

[e-lie]

Bump the best thread yet

 

[BlackJackal]

Hey guys, I'm new to the board, not the game. Anyways, about the book...honestly I thought that it was Greene's weakest book. Some of the concepts that he explained were useful, especially the chapter about avoiding anti-seduction, but really, it seemed too theoretical and abstract.

A book of his that I prefer much better is the 48 Laws of Power (although it does not deal specifically with dating, seduction, ect.).

I agree. The AoS book is the first I one I've read by Robert Greene. I thought it was a very good book. So good I had to get my hands on the 48 Laws. The 48 Laws is more useful than AoS when it comes to women, but also helps back it up. So the AoS made more sense after reading 48 laws.
Been reading both books since I was 19-20 yrs old.

This year I bought the 33 strategies of War and that book is my favorite. I find this more helpful than the other two when it comes to life period.

 

[Reyaj]

BlackJackal I'll find the quotes for the rake and post them shortly. After that I think we should all move onto the next chapter.

 

[BlackJackal]

Yea we've pretty much milked this chapter.

 

[BlackJackal]

bump

 

[Reyaj]

Ok blackjackal or anyone else: Here are the lines Green says on the Rake I don't necessarily agree with but want your opinions....

"And even if she is aware of his rakish past, of his incorribile amorality, it doesn't matter, because she also sees his weakness. He cannot control himself; he actually is a slave to all women. As such he inspires no fear"

"The key is to show no hesitation, to abandon all restraint, to let yourself go, to show that you cannot control yourself and are fundamentally weak. Do not worry about inspiring mistrust; as long as you are the slave to her charms, she will not think of the aftermath"


Ok so both these lines are impyling that the rake is weak and a slave to women and that's what she finds desireable..... right? I thought women like strong men that they can't control.......... So someone please explain this and the rake again..........


Here's a little more

"It remains an abiding female fantasy to meet a man who gives totally of himself, who lives for her, even if only for a while"

Isn't this oneitis?????????

I agree with most everything else the chapter says about how the Rake lets a women's repressed lust take over and how she might want to conform him deep down etc... but those lines I quoted above definitely are contradictory as with a lot of items in Green's books....


So again if anyone can please explain these lines and their validity as well as the Rake's attractivesness and usefulness in getting girls it would be appreciated.


After I get past this pet peeve we can move on

 

[BlackJackal]

Ok blackjackal or anyone else: Here are the lines Green says on the Rake I don't necessarily agree with but want your opinions....

"And even if she is aware of his rakish past, of his incorribile amorality, it doesn't matter, because she also sees his weakness. He cannot control himself; he actually is a slave to all women. As such he inspires no fear"

"The key is to show no hesitation, to abandon all restraint, to let yourself go, to show that you cannot control yourself and are fundamentally weak. Do not worry about inspiring mistrust; as long as you are the slave to her charms, she will not think of the aftermath"


Ok so both these lines are impyling that the rake is weak and a slave to women and that's what she finds desireable..... right? I thought women like strong men that they can't control.......... So someone please explain this and the rake again..........


Here's a little more

"It remains an abiding female fantasy to meet a man who gives totally of himself, who lives for her, even if only for a while"

Isn't this oneitis?????????

I agree with most everything else the chapter says about how the Rake lets a women's repressed lust take over and how she might want to conform him deep down etc... but those lines I quoted above definitely are contradictory as with a lot of items in Green's books....


So again if anyone can please explain these lines and their validity as well as the Rake's attractivesness and usefulness in getting girls it would be appreciated.


After I get past this pet peeve we can move on

Ok, I can see where the confusion would come in after reading that. And I believe theres a good reason.

1. You're taking the words to literal.
2. You dont realize how contradictive life itself is. Which is why his or explainations come off as such.

When he says that rake is really a slave to all women, it just means that his desire for the woman/women is so strong, he cant but be amoral, womanizing or whatever. Add that to the fact that so many women who knew of his ways still let him have his way, she'll feel it's ok to do the same. This usually works on woman who try to hold a moral standard of some sort.

The fact that such a woman can gain any attention from such a man at all validates her. Most women wont admit it and the rest probably are'nt aware of it, but they know they would like to get involved with a man like this. Women made the story of Don Juan (the name that inspired this very site) famous in the first place.

You probably felt he was talking about being a doormat. Thats not the case at all, and makes that clear in the anit-seducer chapter.

"It remains an abiding female fantasy to meet a man who gives totally of himself, who lives for her, even if only for a while"

Isn't this oneitis?????????

Not really. Theres a difference between having a focused interest on a girl and being passionate towards her. Oneitis is when you become obsessed addicted to her like a crackhead who hasn't had a fix in 2 days.

 

[BlackJackal]

continued....

Oneitis is feared around here because most dudes cant get a handle on their emotions. Most try to avoid liking any girl, and the moment thye do they try to flee. Though this numbs the symptons that oneitis can bring this doesn't solve the problem. Instead of training themselves on there emotions and learning how to be in control when they develope, they just flee.

Why do you think every other post talks about having oneitis for a girl despite of all the things they learned here? Cause they've only grown intellectually, but not emotionally. The only thing they know how to do now is tell themselves they have oneitis, instead of admitting they really dig the girl in question.

 

[Reyaj]

Ok, I can see where the confusion would come in after reading that. And I believe theres a good reason.

1. You're taking the words to literal.
2. You dont realize how contradictive life itself is. Which is why his or explainations come off as such.

When he says that rake is really a slave to all women, it just means that his desire for the woman/women is so strong, he cant but be amoral, womanizing or whatever. Add that to the fact that so many women who knew of his ways still let him have his way, she'll feel it's ok to do the same. This usually works on woman who try to hold a moral standard of some sort.

The fact that such a woman can gain any attention from such a man at all validates her. Most women wont admit it and the rest probably are'nt aware of it, but they know they would like to get involved with a man like this. Women made the story of Don Juan (the name that inspired this very site) famous in the first place.

You probably felt he was talking about being a doormat. Thats not the case at all, and makes that clear in the anit-seducer chapter.



Not really. Theres a difference between having a focused interest on a girl and being passionate towards her. Oneitis is when you become obsessed addicted to her like a crackhead who hasn't had a fix in 2 days.

Thanks BlackJackal. You are right in that I do take it literal but I guess sometimes you should read between the lines. Your explanation makes perfect sense. A rake's desire for women makes him amoral because it's so strong he can't help it.

I guess I will still need some help differeniating between focused interest as you put it and doormat. The way Greene really describes the rake is that he would move heaven and earth to get the woman he wants. This is still opposite to everything I've been taught here as I have learned to not give a woman a lot of attention and to be a challenge.

BJ where do you draw the line?

 

[BlackJackal]

Thanks BlackJackal. You are right in that I do take it literal but I guess sometimes you should read between the lines. Your explanation makes perfect sense. A rake's desire for women makes him amoral because it's so strong he can't help it.

I guess I will still need some help differeniating between focused interest as you put it and doormat. The way Greene really describes the rake is that he would move heaven and earth to get the woman he wants. This is still opposite to everything I've been taught here as I have learned to not give a woman a lot of attention and to be a challenge.

BJ where do you draw the line?

I draw the line ( and this is when it comes to anything in life.) when I feel I'm putting in more than what I'm getting out. This is why I stress going for women you know you can get from the jump, and knowing you can win whether it's for a one nite stand or LTR. Most guys say they like the chase, but I dont. The way I see it, if you're chasing her, it's because she's running and doesn't want to get caught. An interested woman wouldn't run, feel me? I dont mind a challenge but I do mind the chase.

As for Greene saying that the rake would move heaven and earth for her, he's really saying to make the woman feel like he would. Where they may exaggerate the little things you do for/with them and turn it into more on their own. As long as you know how to press their buttons, and make them feel good in anyway when they're with you, they'll do all the rest.

 

[BlackJackal]

bump

 

[Reyaj]

Good points BlackJackal..... Lets move on to the Ideal Lover.

I propose that once we get through the different characters we have a summary discussion.

Everyone start reading!

 

[Reyaj]

-----------

 

[e-lie]

Anyone who has read the bio of warren beatty or julio iglesias know that the rake or whatever u call him has a place in society

 

[Reyaj]

bump.... anyone read the chapter? I'm about to post my opinion/remarks soon.

stay tuned

 

[Latinoman]

I am a reformed Rake, based on his description. And if it was not because of my DJ skills...I could easily end as described in his book. My point is...he is accurate on his description.

 

[BlackJackal]

The Ideal Lover

Most people have dreams in their youth that get shattered or worn down with age. They find themselves disappointed by people, events, reality, which cannot match their youthful ideals. Ideal Lovers thrive on people's broken dreams, which become lifelong fantasies. You long for romance? Adventure? Lofty spiritual communion? The Ideal Lover reflects your fantasy. He or she is an artist in creating the illusion you require, idealizing your portrait. In a world of disenchantment and baseness, there is limitless seductive power in following the path of the Ideal Lover.