"Romantic Rivalry" ??

iqqi

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Latinoman said:
But...were you (maybe he was going to you to be NEAR your friend)?
At one point she went and stood next to him. It was kind of awkward. She stood right next to him, almost leaning into him, like they were together. After a few seconds, he just left her and came over to me. I felt like we were on exactly the same page.

"This is awkward. WHAT?" I was confused as to what exactly she was doing, and he moved away from her.
 

ketostix

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iqqi said:
Thanks everyone for the viewpoints so far.

I DO feel kind of silly for getting riled up about my girl now, however it isn't the first time something like this has happened recently with her, so that combined with me being upset made me feel like I needed to put my finger on it.

It started to cross my mind that some of the things she had been telling me recently, might be due to HER coming on the guys I have been talking to, like I saw the other night. I started to wonder if I was just taking her word for it too quick, and that maybe I should start watching HER. The night before THIS happened, something kind of similar happened.

We were at a bar with a bunch of people from our previous job, and this guy showed up. We both thought he was gloriously beautiful, and through talking we found out it seemed he was interested in both of us from back when we used to all work together. No biggie, her and I are both attractive, and that's how it is in the workplace. When he heard we were there he came and found us, with the biggest smile on his face. He said hi to us both, but he couldn't stop staring at me. The various banter went back and forth between us, catching up, ect.

Then another friend came over to me (a girl) who was having some issue with something, so as I tried to help her out with that, I noticed the guy from work look annoyed (he is kind of snobby and high maintenance). He gave me a look, then went around to where G***** was. Me and the new chick who had issues left to go find some other people. When I came back, G***** and the guy from work were lovey dovey, he got her # and tried to get her to go home with him.

She ended up not calling him because, in her words, he is too snobby and was only into her so much because he was drunk. Which is why I myself had played it cool when he was talking to me. (He is too full of himself... and he was drunk). She on the other hand did the overt flirting thing when he came over to her, and allowed him to basically be all over her in the bar.

I was sort of miffed, but not too much, because in that situation, alls fair. We both established with each other that we both were interested in him, and even though it seemed like he was into me in the beginning, he chose her at the end.

I don't know if you guys see what I am getting at. My style is more subtle, I won't throw myself over anyone, nor will I let anyone feel me up, especially in a public place, when I don't know them that well, or know if I'll ever talk to them again. Her style is more Yes to everything because if I say No he won't like me.... even if I don't like him.

I've been thinking she may be my best line of defense in weeding out guys that just want booty. Any guy who wants someone easy, is going to go after her.

It just makes me upset to think she'd come across as interested and available and easy to a guy she knows I am trying to get at. That is NOT loyalty, and none of my friends would do that.

I had one friend back when we were teenagers do something like this, with a guy I was dating. I was young, and had left in tears. He was just trying to get a rise out of me by going after my easy and promiscuous friend in front of me.

SHE learned a lesson that night, because she realized that the male attention she needed so bad was just a ploy (she was being used), and that it really hurt me. She told me that she had a hard time saying no to men, and my girl G***** is just striking me as having the exact same issue, with the exact same lesson needing to be learned.

FINGZ, I didn't come up with the term romantic rivalry. I was googling things like "friend flirts with my date" trying to find advice, lol, and that phrase is what it kept coming up as! I thought it was funny, too. It is a play on the phrase sibling rivalry. I am just using my word tools here, guys.
Like I said before your girl friend is poaching and competing with you. You two sound like two guys more than two females. Most girls will shut a guy down if he tries to switch to her friend. I'm sort of amazed that guys you two are meeting feel so free to choose between you two. This girl is going to take/share all your guys that she wants to because she's either got better game than you or is better looking.
 

Desdinova

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I've been thinking she may be my best line of defense in weeding out guys that just want booty. Any guy who wants someone easy, is going to go after her.
It's really fvcking sad that you think of your friend in this light - as someone to use and someone who is a slvt, when in reality you have absolutely no clue what's really going on. You're not a mindreader

It just makes me upset to think she'd come across as interested and available and easy to a guy she knows I am trying to get at. That is NOT loyalty, and none of my friends would do that.
You expect her to be celibate on account of YOU? You are not her mother, you are not her jailer. If you really think she's fvcking up your chances of attracting men, then go out ALONE to attract men.


You know, a while back I used to think that women were good at reading body language. After many recent relevations, I'm discovering that women can't read 5hit and can only interpret body language.
 

iqqi

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ketostix said:
Like I said before your girl friend is poaching and competing with you. You two sound like two guys more than two females. Most girls will shut a guy down if he tries to switch to her friend. I'm sort of amazed that guys you two are meeting feel so free to choose between you two. This girl is going to take/share all your guys that she wants to because she's either got better game than you or is better looking.
Its not her better game, its that she comes off as easy. That isn't game, lol.

We are both attractive. Most men like me, but she pulls her fair share.

And I agree with you, most of my girl friends will not only shut a guy down, but they wouldn't do anything to make him think she was interested in the first place.

I am becoming amazed myself, at how some guys seem to think they can choose freely too, but its only in the sense that they feel like if I am not all over them, she probably WOULD be. Its like some men have a radar when it comes to insecure women.

The funniest part is, they pick up this from her, and I've seen her entertain it, but she doesn't mean it, and after all is said and done, they won't get anything from her.
 

iqqi

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Desdinova said:
It's really fvcking sad that you think of your friend in this light - as someone to use and someone who is a slvt, when in reality you have absolutely no clue what's really going on. You're not a mindreader


You expect her to be celibate on account of YOU? You are not her mother, you are not her jailer. If you really think she's fvcking up your chances of attracting men, then go out ALONE to attract men.
What is with you.

I am just being honest about her, she is the one who told me all of this about herself. That is why I provided the backround on her. She seeks validation through men and their attention. This is not rare. Especially with chicks who have a history of sexual violence.

She isn't easy in the sense that any guy could sleep with her, but most think they can, and if they do get her alone, she won't say no, even if she doesn't really want to do anything with them. I didn't "mind read" this, she TOLD ME, and it is pretty damn commonplace with chicks who had such a troubled past.

As far as being celibate... you are just trying to be an a$$ now. Aren't mods supposed to be neutral?

I don't expect her to be celibate, I don't know where you'd get that. Out of your a$$ maybe?

I do expect her to not hit on men I am pursuing.
 

DavenJuan

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iqqi said:
What is with you.

I am just being honest about her, she is the one who told me all of this about herself. That is why I provided the backround on her. She seeks validation through men and their attention. This is not rare. Especially with chicks who have a history of sexual violence.

She isn't easy in the sense that any guy could sleep with her, but most think they can, and if they do get her alone, she won't say no, even if she doesn't really want to do anything with them. I didn't "mind read" this, she TOLD ME, and it is pretty damn commonplace with chicks who had such a troubled past.

As far as being celibate... you are just trying to be an a$$ now. Aren't mods supposed to be neutral?

I don't expect her to be celibate, I don't know where you'd get that. Out of your a$$ maybe?

I do expect her to not hit on men I am pursuing.
good point...

but why expect anything less then?

but doesnt this type of behavior happen with women ALL THE TIME??

female friends of mine always seem to "tiff" with each other over men. whether it be out right blatant or discreet. this seems to be common practice with women.
 

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What I see is Iqqi's interpretation of Woman Code, that's all.
It's the same thing with Men.

I say the email should state your personal boundary and stance on the issue.
"No poaching", no "scamming off of me".
"If I like a guy, I will let you know, and you are Hands OFF from there."
I don't agree with 'using' her a 'weeding' tool though.
That is dehumanizing.
While I believe that you should strive to instill in her higher self esteem and worth, and a bit more reserved amorous approach, you can't expect her to do it. And if so, then simply let nature take its course.

If a creepy guy comes up, you deal with it as the lady you are, Iqqi.


This friend of yours does need to be introduced to mature respectful dynamics in the romance/dating game.
And if she cannot find it in her to respect them , then she's out, unfortunately for her.
She will be losnig a great Wing Girl and good friend.

She is feeling a little concerend for her friend for being TOO overt, because it's one of Iqqis pet peeves.


I also agree that no buying a beer for crush, No way no how. This early? No. If you are already letting him know, buying him a beer is a little over the top.


I believe the single BEST way a woman can TRULY let a guy 'know" is through Kino, Touch pure and simple.

Add in being closer, and moving in on their personal space are by far the BEST and coolest signals for men to enjoy, and really get the picture that their girl IS 'into them."
Not buying drinks or making ''pretty eyes."
Or being 'mysterious".
Or "but I was standing right there!!!"
"I was talking to him all night!"

They are not clear.


KINO and PROXIMITY, those two, period. For Men.


I see and respect Iqqi's concern for not looking desperate and easy, after her high school incident she doesn't feel like doing that and expereincing that ever again.
So she feels better to err on the side of caution, meaning holding her cards further in.
I agree.
Absolutely.
And of course I agree to the part of no unwanted touching.
Of course.
Every guy should respect a woman's body.
However, we ALL need to sometimes take a step back and re evaluate ourselves every now and then.
and ask "Hows that working out for ya??!"

Because sometimes when we think we are being a cool and laid back guy, other people could be thinking 'what a snob! And hes so dull!' Same goes for a woman!
And many women are convinced all they have to do is just "show up'!
When they think theyre being mysterious, theyre actually being dull and boring and distant!
Not that many guys, especially men who are very visually attuned ,are going to make a move on some chick whom they believe is 'distant" and assume she's not interested.
How many people have asked others about their interactions and wondered :WHY did the other person NOT make a move?, when they "KNOW" they were CLEARLY showing SIGNALS?

But so many women worry about their reputation, it an be paralyzing for some.
thsi is what leads to women's decisions often, and why they often over abnalyze their actions, and the responses they may be getting from men.
Women HATE to miscalibrate.
Masters of social dynamics, the last thing most women want to experience is looking like theyr are trying too hard.

And then by projecting their insecurity and future interactions on a single guy, who could be very cool and non judgemental, and the chick is thinking 'hes not going to respect me! He will think Im too easy!"
When he could just really be digging you and truly enjoy you being close to him, and some really nice intimate touching, not groping or fondling, but nice touching, in whuich a woman can STILL set her physical boundaries, and let the guy know "I AM INTO YOU! Just not going to sex you right away tonight."
Which IS Perfectly FINE.
What women shoudl IMHO strive to be ARE Ladies. Ladies who can control their emotions, and recognize what is going on and ACT Classy under pressure. And not say or do things that will be overly hurtful to a rejected suitor.
Class, and Femenine Grace.....these traits SHOULD be Ideals for women to strive for.


Sure, we value more what we have to work for. But no one here is advocating to not let the other 'earn' them.
Meaning, its OK to make the woman earn your attention and affection.
You shoudlnt just give it away.
Same thing with women, she shoudlnt be all over the guy right after meeting, this is especially true if the intent is something more deep and meaningful.

But we often exagerate a method, in order to eliminate it.
Meaning, when I say kino, sometimes we may think "tongue kissing and fondling" and "I'm not going to do that!!"
That's NOT what I am saying here.

But we all have to learn the word CALIBRATION.

And know how to seductively USE less "game".

In addition ,OVER Analyzing is never a good thing. That really is a sign of insecurity and anxiety working its way inside our mind.
Not good.

We want to enjoy the process, women more so.

A little bit if innuendo, flirting, some sexual tension, kino, and sensual eye contact, that feeling when youve really connected that it's just the two of you in the entire room, the butterflies in your stomach all that good stuff.
Its what makes women feel alive.
Its the fun, romantic emotional rollercoaster women CRAVE, That is what women call rmoance. Not necessaily a rose.
A rose is better when something is already established, when you do it because you WANTED to , not to impress her. It shows you were thinking about HER, not another woman.
Roses, candles, gifts, ALL that stuff can build affection, Affection should be saved for later.


The guy who can make her feel that is head and shoulders above the competition. Shes going to want more of THAT.
I also se her desire for sexual tension, and the orchestration of seduction.
Iqqi is actually more in touch with a romantic seduction, and wants to experience the entire Seduction program, as it were.
If the guy goes through the 'right motions', then she will feel more confident that the guy has that inner sense of women, and she can start to put her trust in him.
If men could, and many do, they would just choose a woman and walk up to her and say "I like you, come back to my place."
But that is often not going to do the trick.
So like I said, like a symphony, Iqqi's taste is to experience the entire rush of feelings and experiences that come from an exciting romantic seduction.
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re edited, typos and arrangement
 
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ketostix

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iqqi said:
Its not her better game, its that she comes off as easy. That isn't game, lol.

We are both attractive. Most men like me, but she pulls her fair share.

And I agree with you, most of my girl friends will not only shut a guy down, but they wouldn't do anything to make him think she was interested in the first place.

I am becoming amazed myself, at how some guys seem to think they can choose freely too, but its only in the sense that they feel like if I am not all over them, she probably WOULD be. Its like some men have a radar when it comes to insecure women.

The funniest part is, they pick up this from her, and I've seen her entertain it, but she doesn't mean it, and after all is said and done, they won't get anything from her.

Well I wouldn't be so sure your friend doesn't make booty calls with some of the guys when you're not around. But what we have here is your friend who's an AW and then there's you playing indirect game. The guys simply assume that you're either not interested or playing too hard to get and that your friend is available. And your friend isn't just AW she's trying and is taking guys' attention and attraction away from you and I bet you she hooks up with some of those guys. At the least she's competing and basically c0ck..er cvntblocking you lol.
 

iqqi

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ketostix said:
Well I wouldn't be so sure your friend doesn't make booty calls with some of the guys when you're not around. But what we have here is your friend who's an AW and then there's you playing indirect game. The guys simply assume that you're either not interested or playing too hard to get and that your friend is available. And your friend isn't just AW she's trying and is taking attention and attraction away from you and I bet you she hooks up with some of them.
hey Keto. She isn't really that bad.

I think most of what she does is the seek validation through attention thingy, but she was visibly upset when she realized she may have basically "stole my man" lol.

I do trust her because what I have illustrated here in this thread is just one issue. She has other traits and I have other shared experiences to go off of, to consider when "judging" her and her loyalty as a friend.

She is a chick who is not used to having standards for her actions involving males, and she is picking up a whole lot from hanging with me.

Whereas before, if a guy asked her to come home with him, she may have done it even if she didn't want to, because she is used to never saying no. Now she is much better at making up her own mind about what she wants.

She still seems to have some issue with seeking approval from men, however. And she isn't used to female friendship, so the whole "Chicks before D!ck" thing might be new to her. CHICKS BEFORE D!CK, you like that, Fingz????

I am proud of her, she has a lot of potential. She has some amazing personality traits that I haven't seen in years in a person.

I do know she looks up to me, especially in how I deal with men, and how much they seem to genuinely love me, so she is taking cues.

She is taking cues, that is, when she isn't taking my men!!! :whistle:
 

ketostix

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iqqi said:
hey Keto. She isn't really that bad.

I think most of what she does is the seek validation through attention thingy, but she was visibly upset when she realized she may have basically "stole my man" lol.

I do trust her because what I have illustrated here in this thread is just one issue. She has other traits and I have other shared experiences to go off of, to consider when "judging" her and her loyalty as a friend.

She is a chick who is not used to having standards for her actions involving males, and she is picking up a whole lot from hanging with me.

Whereas before, if a guy asked her to come home with him, she may have done it even if she didn't want to, because she is used to never saying no. Now she is much better at making up her own mind about what she wants.

She still seems to have some issue with seeking approval from men, however. And she isn't used to female friendship, so the whole "Chicks before D!ck" thing might be new to her. CHICKS BEFORE D!CK, you like that, Fingz????

I am proud of her, she has a lot of potential. She has some amazing personality traits that I haven't seen in years in a person.

I do know she looks up to me, especially in how I deal with men, and how much they seem to genuinely love me, so she is taking cues.

She is taking cues, that is, when she isn't taking my men!!! :whistle:
Iqqi make up your mind about your friend. First you say Desdinova is wrong about her and now you tell me she's not that bad. It's one or the other. You admit she's an AW that takes guys attention, attraction and numbers from you and she can't say no to guys. So which is it, is she blameless or is she poaching and competing with you? Make up your mind. I think you just want to complain and you and your friend both are wasting guys' time.
 

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Women don't need "game" to get men, if you're attractive to the man of interest and it's "mutual", that's all there is to it. Talking, flirting etc is all that needs to take place, basically give the green light.

The true reason any woman would play hard-to-get is because of the fear of rejection, plain and simple. That's why some of them are so fearful they can't even look at the person they like. I know we all have stories of finding out after-the-fact of women who had crushes on us and never showed an ounce of interest (what's the point?).

I've seen and experienced women in competition for men. In fact, it happens often enough for me to accept it as normal.

I decided to hang out with a close friend and these girls he was always playing cards with. I did it of course to see what they looked like and if any would be possible hook ups. I wasn't all that attracted to any of them, but I could see a rating between them. The 3 of them went from reasonably attractive to not all that attractive.

The one who expressed the most obvious interest in me was the least attractive (girl 3), but I think her interest sparked a chain reaction because girl 2 actually initiated kino after experssing to me that girl 3 was interested (wing girl). I didn't go for either girl 2 or 3, but then out of no where girl 1 starts flirting but she was the most indirect of them all (because she was the most attractive and she knew it).

Even though I really didn't like them it provided a much appreciated ego boost. I love cat fights!!!
 

Desdinova

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Aren't mods supposed to be neutral?
With my modding, yes. With my opinion and thoughts on life situations, no.

I do expect her to not hit on men I am pursuing.
And from what you've written, she hasn't. The men have been hitting on her, and you're pissed off because they're not hitting on YOU.

If you cannot successfully attract a man with your friend around, then don't take her with you when you're on the prowl for a man.
 

iqqi

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Tazman said:
Women don't need "game" to get men, if you're attractive to the man of interest and it's "mutual", that's all there is to it. Talking, flirting etc is all that needs to take place, basically give the green light.
Blah blah blah and blah, men don't need "game" to get women either! All they need is to be attractive to the women of interest, and its mutual, that is all there is to it. REALLY! Having other methods (aka GAME) doesn't help at all! :rolleyes:

Anyways, there is a great thread going on over on the main forum.

(Cosmo is the female version of sosuave...)

This kid sums it up great:

Pimp101 said:
Summary of the article:

- Don't return his calls/emails the same day.
- Keep him guessing.
- Be just as busy as he is.
- Chat up another guy in his presence.
- Delay doing the deed.

Replace his with her and guy with girl. Sound familiar? How is this ANY different to the recommendations on this site? The only (half) exception is the last one where the article recommends waiting a MONTH :eek: Although DJ principals state that we shouldn't care if we have to wait a few dates, you know, don't be TOO attached to sex.

Honestly, if a girl is doing those things then she's exactly the same as we are. A female DJ if you will. Stop b!tching you hypocrites.
 

iqqi

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ketostix said:
Iqqi make up your mind about your friend. First you say Desdinova is wrong about her and now you tell me she's not that bad. It's one or the other. You admit she's an AW that takes guys attention, attraction and numbers from you and she can't say no to guys. So which is it, is she blameless or is she poaching and competing with you? Make up your mind. I think you just want to complain and you and your friend both are wasting guys' time.
I never said Des was wrong about her, I said that he was wrong about ME describing her. She IS easy, and she DOES lack good judgement when it comes to men and her choices. She is working on that.

That doesn't make her some awful person. If she was, she'd never have been my friend.

What I am concerned with, is that she IS indeed competing, but NOT on purpose.

Her lack of confidence, her insecurites, make her need to appeal to men and earn their approval and attention. Does this make her bad?

If she was vindictive and out to really get me on purpose, yeah, she'd be not so great. And there ARE a lot of girls like that, but I don't think that SHE is one of them.

I really think she might have issues, and I am just now really seeing it.

Does that make sense to you?
 

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Iqqi, I certainly do.It is a diemma. And it's not fun.

Just be cool with her, you know she has low self esteem, and while you shoudlnt tip toe around her, let her know nicely but firmly that you won't be putting up with that if she wants to keep you as a friend.
If you come off harsh, then she may get personal with you, and maybe flip the script. So just be cool about it.
 

iqqi

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Interceptor said:
Iqqi, I certainly do.It is a diemma. And it's not fun.

Just be cool with her, you know she has low self esteem, and while you shoudlnt tip toe around her, let her know nicely but firmly that you won't be putting up with that if she wants to keep you as a friend.
If you come off harsh, then she may get personal with you, and maybe flip the script. So just be cool about it.
She took the email well. Well, she responded well. It may have upset her more as she thought about it (women ARE pretty emotional).

Me and her are cool, and I am glad I said something, because I DO feel like she kind of overstepped some "friend code" boundaries, and even if she didn't mean to, now she will at least be more aware of her actions and how they could affect a situation.

Which was my intention. I just want her to be more AWARE of what she is doing, in many different senses.
 

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We both thought he was gloriously beautiful
Comming from a woman that claims looks are not important.

Anyway...there two things I wanted to point out. I'm very disapointed that you use the work place as a place to hook up. For the most part...the females I work with (throughout my career)...the ones that take their job and career very seriously avoid "hooking up" or the "romantic drama" at work. This tells me a LOT about you and your character from the professional perspective.

I am going to assume both of you are attractive. If that is the case...I have news for you...the reason men are approaching her more than you is because she is YOUNGER. And as you age, it is going to get worst.

What's my suggestion? Associate yourself with better people. Avoid the drama at work (typically the women I personally find attractive in the work environment are those that take their job serious). And as attractive as you claim you are...all you need to do is diffirentiate yourself from the bunch. LOT of hot women out there...very few worth a damn.

I will tell you one thing...I don't dislike you. Most of the time I don't agree with what you write...but in several occassions you have written some things that I agree with (e.g. your comments about str8up in relation to his drama with women). Do NOT waste your time with men that AFTER talking to you...they show an interest for your girlfriend. If you have your sh_it together...a TRUE DJ would not overlook you over some 21 or 22 year old girl. Especially when you are probably in your mid to late 20s and in the prime of your life.
 

iqqi

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Latinoman said:
Comming from a woman that claims looks are not important.

Anyway...there two things I wanted to point out. I'm very disapointed that you use the work place as a place to hook up. For the most part...the females I work with (throughout my career)...the ones that take their job and career very seriously avoid "hooking up" or the "romantic drama" at work. This tells me a LOT about you and your character from the professional perspective.

I am going to assume both of you are attractive. If that is the case...I have news for you...the reason men are approaching her more than you is because she is YOUNGER. And as you age, it is going to get worst.

What's my suggestion? Associate yourself with better people. Avoid the drama at work (typically the women I personally find attractive in the work environment are those that take their job serious). And as attractive as you claim you are...all you need to do is diffirentiate yourself from the bunch. LOT of hot women out there...very few worth a damn.

I will tell you one thing...I don't dislike you. Most of the time I don't agree with what you write...but in several occassions you have written some things that I agree with (e.g. your comments about str8up in relation to his drama with women). Do NOT waste your time with men that AFTER talking to you...they show an interest for your girlfriend. If you have your sh_it together...a TRUE DJ would not overlook you over some 21 or 22 year old girl. Especially when you are probably in your mid to late 20s and in the prime of your life.
Well first of all, lol, I look like I am under 21. I was going to say I look younger than her, but she looks like she could be 16 or 17. So nevermind. I do hang out with a lot of younger 20's, and I look younger than most of them. Genetics. Gotta love it!

That's not it.

And we no longer work with that guy. Hense all the flirting that was finally able to take place. I agree, no romance within finance, haha!

And looks AREN'T important. They ARE icing on the cake.
 
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