Let's Be Real Here Pt.4 - "GAME" alone cannot create physical attraction

[characternote]

Yup. ST, one thing I used to talk about on here was the following…

Years ago, the ONS bar/club pickups I observed in the field were fairly serious in nature. The guy’s conversation with the chick was fairly dry or businesslike in tone before they’d leave together. I really didn’t see many funny guys successfully using humor to pull.

Notwithstanding, there are cases where the chick is super attracted and just giggling out of sexual tension even when the guy clearly isn’t trying to be funny. But that’s different. That would be looks rather than humor driven.

guys typically pull in spite of their 'game' as opposed to because of it.
When I very very first got into 'game', one thing that instantly hit me and made me question everything (at the time I was heavy into RSD who were fairly new) was how all the main instructors had fairly different personalities. Some funny, some more sexual, some serious etc etc. Their personalities basically decided their verbals. So they of course seemed to all break each others rules etc. It was all very different to watch. That was actually one of my first alarm bells when it came to 'game'. I'd have done well to trust my instincts at the time tbh (that told me that the whole PUA/game thing was largely just marketing lol)

Going back to your point though, yes, it can certainly be the case that when there is attraction, there's seemingly very little need for what we think of as 'game' (be it humour or charisma etc)

I've mentioned my main slayer friend a fair few time on here, but i've less frequently mentioned the other one (I had 2 super slayer friends lol. He actually looks a lot like my other slayer friend (my best friend/main wing) with the only real difference being that he's about a foot taller lol.)

The second one really is a stereotypical German guy. Germans are sterotypically boring, and he doesn't help the sterotype lol. His conversations with girls are as dry as you can imagine, and there's not a hint of 'outer game' in any of his interactions. No pushpulls. No interesting stories and teasing and charisma etc. But his hit rate is outrageous. It helps that usually it's him being opened of course! I don't think i've ever seen open girls even in bars!

 

[Smooth_texter]

Yup. ST, one thing I used to talk about on here was the following…

Years ago, the ONS bar/club pickups I observed in the field were fairly serious in nature. The guy’s conversation with the chick was fairly dry or businesslike in tone before they’d leave together. I really didn’t see many funny guys successfully using humor to pull.

Notwithstanding, there are cases where the chick is super attracted and just giggling out of sexual tension even when the guy clearly isn’t trying to be funny. But that’s different. That would be looks rather than humor driven.

This has been my experience as well - humor destroys sexual tension (especially random humor).

Not to mention that a lot of guys use it to mask anxiety, ability to deal with difficult situations and so on. So using too much humor = loser in a woman's eyes.

 

[Smooth_texter]

guys typically pull in spite of their 'game' as opposed to because of it.
When I very very first got into 'game', one thing that instantly hit me and made me question everything (at the time I was heavy into RSD who were fairly new) was how all the main instructors had fairly different personalities. Some funny, some more sexual, some serious etc etc. Their personalities basically decided their verbals. So they of course seemed to all break each others rules etc. It was all very different to watch. That was actually one of my first alarm bells when it came to 'game'. I'd have done well to trust my instincts at the time tbh (that told me that the whole PUA/game thing was largely just marketing lol)

Going back to your point though, yes, it can certainly be the case that when there is attraction, there's seemingly very little need for what we think of as 'game' (be it humour or charisma etc)

I've mentioned my main slayer friend a fair few time on here, but i've less frequently mentioned the other one (I had 2 super slayer friends lol. He actually looks a lot like my other slayer friend (my best friend/main wing) with the only real difference being that he's about a foot taller lol.)

The second one really is a stereotypical German guy. Germans are sterotypically boring, and he doesn't help the sterotype lol. His conversations with girls are as dry as you can imagine, and there's not a hint of 'outer game' in any of his interactions. No pushpulls. No interesting stories and teasing and charisma etc. But his hit rate is outrageous. It helps that usually it's him being opened of course! I don't think i've ever seen open girls even in bars!

This has also been my experience.

I had more opportunities and interested women in my 20s, when I had no game, compared to now (where in theory I am higher value). Unlike most men here, I believe that my SMV decreased and thus limits my dating pool.

 

[Mike32ct]

This has been my experience as well - humor destroys sexual tension (especially random humor).

Yes. I was watching a movie on the couch with this chick way back. We started making out heavily. (She picked a night where her roommate was out. It was totally on for us.)

Anyway, it was a very funny movie playing on the tv where I knew the lines. During the makeout, I could overhear the funny scene. I pulled back and burst out laughing. (Couldn’t help it.). She walked me to the door and said good night. It was over. The laughing killed the moment and was a major turnoff to her.

guys typically pull in spite of their 'game' as opposed to because of it.

…

The second one really is a stereotypical German guy. Germans are sterotypically boring, and he doesn't help the sterotype lol. His conversations with girls are as dry as you can imagine, and there's not a hint of 'outer game' in any of his interactions. No pushpulls. No interesting stories and teasing and charisma etc. But his hit rate is outrageous. It helps that usually it's him being opened of course! I don't think i've ever seen open girls even in bars!

One night I was at the club in the early 2000s. I was using some funny routines. These two girls laughed hysterically. One of them told me I should do standup comedy. But as soon as my funny routines ran out, one of the girls approached this super serious (seemingly pissed off in appearance) guy. They left together shortly after.

TLDR: Mating is serious business. There is something sultry/sexy/alpha about being serious when you are trying to pull or seduce. Humor is more entertainment and friend-like. While some playfulness can be ok, excessive humor can kill the moment.

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

Yes. I was watching a movie on the couch with this chick way back. We started making out heavily. (She picked a night where her roommate was out. It was totally on for us.)

Anyway, it was a very funny movie playing on the tv where I knew the lines. During the makeout, I could overhear the funny scene. I pulled back and burst out laughing. (Couldn’t help it.). She walked me to the door and said good night. It was over. The laughing killed the moment and was a major turnoff to her.



One night I was at the club in the early 2000s. I was using some funny routines. These two girls laughed hysterically. One of them told me I should do standup comedy. But as soon as my funny routines ran out, one of the girls approached this super serious (seemingly pissed off in appearance) guy. They left together shortly after.

TLDR: Mating is serious business. There is something sultry/sexy/alpha about being serious when you are trying to pull or seduce. Humor is more entertainment and friend-like. While some playfulness can be ok, excessive humor can kill the moment.

That first one, brutal man. Getting walked to the door for laughing?

 

[Hamurabimbi]

This has been my experience as well - humor destroys sexual tension (especially random humor).

Not to mention that a lot of guys use it to mask anxiety, ability to deal with difficult situations and so on. So using too much humor = loser in a woman's eyes.

Absolutely true.
I get uncomfortable around sexually aggressive women. And have used humor to diffuse those situations. As you can imagine. This is quite…counterproductive, to say the least.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Humour is an attractive trait to women, but not all 'funny' men actually have humour.

Humour is like taste or fashion sense, pretty much everyone thinks they have humour, but most are not funny at all. That's why there are so few stand-up comedians and even fewer genuinely funny people. A lot of 'humour' is steeped in tragedy and many comedians are deeply unhappy people with substance abuse problems, depression and suicidal ideation. The best of them can turn that into funny material.

Women like my sense of humour; not because I'm cracking jokes or trying to amuse them, but because I can see the humour in serious situations. And that shows a basically positive attitude to life, if you can laugh at yourself and the situation and lighten a heavy mood or de-escalate tense moments. Most men can not brighten a woman's day, they just 'make light of a situation' and that's often not really funny to women.

 

[Smooth_texter]

Humour is an attractive trait to women, but not all 'funny' men actually have humour.

Humour is like taste or fashion sense, pretty much everyone thinks they have humour, but most are not funny at all. That's why there are so few stand-up comedians and even fewer genuinely funny people. A lot of 'humour' is steeped in tragedy and many comedians are deeply unhappy people with substance abuse problems, depression and suicidal ideation. The best of them can turn that into funny material.

Women like my sense of humour; not because I'm cracking jokes or trying to amuse them, but because I can see the humour in serious situations. And that shows a basically positive attitude to life, if you can laugh at yourself and the situation and lighten a heavy mood or de-escalate tense moments. Most men can not brighten a woman's day, they just 'make light of a situation' and that's often not really funny to women.

True to some degree, but you are mostly describing emotional support in an already established LTR. Humor or game alone cannot get you the girl.

Let's say a guy wants to have a second date in a luxurious restaurant. However, he has forgotten that he had to make reservations first, in order to get a table there. He discovers this when he arrives with his date, and the date is pretty much over. There is no way to brush it off with humor.

Also, you cannot start joking about difficult life problems right off the bat with a girl that you have just met or barely know.

The thing about humor if you are a man is that is has to be carefully used, and just in the right proportions - otherwise you would come off as a guy who tries to hide his ability to deal with difficult situations or that cannot be taken seriously.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

True to some degree, but you are mostly describing emotional support in an already established LTR. Humor or game alone cannot get you the girl.

I'm mostly polyamorous and while most of my lovers will stay with me for years, I'm not into monogamous LTR. And most women like me because I'm a witty interesting non-conformist Einzelganger and different from the guys they usually ended up with.

Let's say a guy wants to have a second date in a luxurious restaurant. However, he has forgotten that he had to make reservations first, in order to get a table there. He discovers this when he arrives with his date, and the date is pretty much over. There is no way to brush it off with humor.

I think you misread that I said to use humour to get out of 'situations', but I'm not talking about joking yourself to mask stupidity.
I wouldn't get in the situation you describe. First of all, I don't try to impress women by surrounding them with luxury. Second, if I do go to a restaurant (instead of cooking for women, which impresses them way more than restaurant reservations) I always call ahead to reserve a table (and ask them to put a bar stool/child chair next to the table for my cat.
If you try to impress a woman with luxury dining and you don't prep by making reservations and knowing the menu, you're an idiot. It's a good **** test to see how psychologically resilient your date is, but that's another strategy.

Also, you cannot start joking about difficult life problems right off the bat with a girl that you have just met or barely know.

Again, never did I say 'joking'. Telling jokes is not the same as having a sense of humour.
And I do talk "right off the bat" with women about serious topics and difficult life problems because I counsel women with C-PTSD. And I can do that because I use the right tone and women feel safe around me.

The thing about humor if you are a man is that is has to be carefully used, and just in the right proportions - otherwise you would come off as a guy who tries to hide his ability to deal with difficult situations or that cannot be taken seriously.

I think that you confuse 'humour' with 'cracking jokes'. It's the difference between 'wit' and 'trying to be funny'.

 

[Mike32ct]

That first one, brutal man. Getting walked to the door for laughing?

Yeah. I really liked her. I was 29 at the time. She was a very cute 23 blonde. It was our 3rd date. Everything was going perfectly up until that point. Then it was game over.

If we had hooked up before, it would have been cute and totally forgivable. But I was still in the “probationary period” so zero mistakes were allowed.

 

[SW15]

I was watching a movie on the couch with this chick way back. We started making out heavily. (She picked a night where her roommate was out. It was totally on for us.)

Anyway, it was a very funny movie playing on the tv where I knew the lines. During the makeout, I could overhear the funny scene. I pulled back and burst out laughing. (Couldn’t help it.). She walked me to the door and said good night. It was over. The laughing killed the moment and was a major turnoff to her.

One night I was at the club in the early 2000s. I was using some funny routines. These two girls laughed hysterically. One of them told me I should do standup comedy. But as soon as my funny routines ran out, one of the girls approached this super serious (seemingly pissed off in appearance) guy. They left together shortly after.

TLDR: Mating is serious business. There is something sultry/sexy/alpha about being serious when you are trying to pull or seduce. Humor is more entertainment and friend-like. While some playfulness can be ok, excessive humor can kill the moment.

I was 29 at the time. She was a very cute 23 blonde. It was our 3rd date. Everything was going perfectly up until that point. Then it was game over.

If we had hooked up before, it would have been cute and totally forgivable. But I was still in the “probationary period” so zero mistakes were allowed.

"Probationary periods" have gotten even more strict since that era you describe in the early 2000s. A date of a certain quality that would have warranted a second date in the 2000-2006 era would result in a ghosting in the 2010-present era.

Being a funny beta male, contrary to what this article says, won't persuade women into having s*x.

In general, what you say is true. The only exception is social circle. If a beta male has a strong social circle and meets women through social circle introductions, then being funny might help. If a beta male is meeting women through tech-based methods or approaching strangers, being funny won't matter much.

Social circle is one of the few ways that a beta can find a woman. Without a social circle, a beta will need more money/status.

 

[Smooth_texter]

I'm mostly polyamorous and while most of my lovers will stay with me for years, I'm not into monogamous LTR. And most women like me because I'm a witty interesting non-conformist Einzelganger and different from the guys they usually ended up with.


I think you misread that I said to use humour to get out of 'situations', but I'm not talking about joking yourself to mask stupidity.
I wouldn't get in the situation you describe. First of all, I don't try to impress women by surrounding them with luxury. Second, if I do go to a restaurant (instead of cooking for women, which impresses them way more than restaurant reservations) I always call ahead to reserve a table (and ask them to put a bar stool/child chair next to the table for my cat.
If you try to impress a woman with luxury dining and you don't prep by making reservations and knowing the menu, you're an idiot. It's a good **** test to see how psychologically resilient your date is, but that's another strategy.


Again, never did I say 'joking'. Telling jokes is not the same as having a sense of humour.
And I do talk "right off the bat" with women about serious topics and difficult life problems because I counsel women with C-PTSD. And I can do that because I use the right tone and women feel safe around me.


I think that you confuse 'humour' with 'cracking jokes'. It's the difference between 'wit' and 'trying to be funny'.

As you have said, you have built a niche style, which attracts women looking for that type of man. You combine it with wit and humor, and this works well on them. My advice was for the regular Joe, who doesn't stand out with anything, that he would need to pick his exact moments with humor, but mostly would need to become interesting/good looking first (something to set him apart from the other men) and keep some sexual tension in the interactions.

This is because most women have heard enough compliments and humor/wit from regular Joes, so this alone will not impress them that much (my point was related to the dating phase, not already established relationships).

The example that I described was to show that humor cannot be used in all difficult situations, especially with a woman that you have just started dating. It is not the way I organize or conduct my dates. I presume you use humor in your counseling, in order to create a positive and safe environment for your clients, and in your polyamorous relationships. This is a very different setting than being on a first of second date with a new woman, and having nothing going on for you.

 

[Smooth_texter]

True. My husband is 6’3” so he is tall. I was a little on the fence at first as he’s blond with blue eyes (not my usual type) but he is objectively handsome.

Taking off (literally) will comment further later….

@BeExcellent - I am waiting for you to convince me that your husband won you over with charm alone (and not the fact that he is 6'3'', earns 6 figures or was a semi pro athlete).

 

[Smooth_texter]

"Probationary periods" have gotten even more strict since that era you describe in the early 2000s. A date of a certain quality that would have warranted a second date in the 2000-2006 era would result in a ghosting in the 2010-present era.



In general, what you say is true. The only exception is social circle. If a beta male has a strong social circle and meets women through social circle introductions, then being funny might help. If a beta male is meeting women through tech-based methods or approaching strangers, being funny won't matter much.

Social circle is one of the few ways that a beta can find a woman. Without a social circle, a beta will need more money/status.

Yes, there is literally no room for mistakes now. I presume this is due to all of the abundance that women experience from the various digital sources.

Everything from choosing the best words possible when you match, to choosing the perfect place for the date, things that you say and so on.

As I have said previously - it was easier 10-12 years ago, with having little or no game. But we must adapt.

 

[SW15]

Yes, there is literally no room for mistakes now. I presume this is due to all of the abundance that women experience from the various digital sources.

Everything from choosing the best words possible when you match, to choosing the perfect place for the date, things that you say and so on.

As I have said previously - it was easier 10-12 years ago, having little or no game. But we must adapt.

In the era in between when dating websites got de-stigmatized (roughly 2005) and the launch of swipe apps (2012) is when female abundance took off. Even in the late 2000s when women were using online dating websites, they gave men from the websites zero room for error.

The app environment just exploded all the bad trends from the website era.

I remember the early 2010s before apps took off and arranging some dates via website and realizing I had no margin for error. It was stressful.

The absolute worst interactions any man will have in early stage dating will be from dates arranged from a tech-based method. Women don't treat men who approach them in-person too much better than the tech-arranged men, but it is a slight upgrade.

If a normie range looks man desires humane treatment in the early stages of dating, the only way to get that now is through social circle arranged dates. Normie range is under 8 to 8.5 in looks. I've had my photos rated on Photofeeler at around a 7 depending on the photo.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

As you have said, you have built a niche style, which attracts women looking for that type of man. You combine it with wit and humor, and this works well on them. My advice was for the regular Joe, who doesn't stand up with anything, that he would need to pick his exact moments with humor, but mostly would need to become interesting first (something to set him apart from the other men) and keep some sexual tension in the interactions.

I got that, but I wanted to put forth that 'humour' is an umbrella term, including 'joking', 'wit', 'sarcasm', et cetera; but also a positive happy mindset that helps chasing the dark clouds away. None of this will work by themselves, so you also need to be engaging in speech and reasonably attractive. Another thing is that while many people think they have humour, their humour isn't really funny or witty, their 'sarcasm' more 'sour grapes', and their jokes mostly at the expense of others.

(my point was related to the dating phase, not already established relationships). [snip] I presume you use humor in your counseling, in order to create a positive and safe environment for your clients, and in your polyamorous relationships. This is a very different setting than being on a first of second date with a new woman.

I don't approach, but that doesn't mean I'm not approached. And if I fancy a woman who approaches me, I'm free to pursue them, as I do regularly. The difference is that I have sex in abundance. New lovers are welcome, but not needed. Because I lack that urge to pounce on sex, women tend to get even more interested and my humorous deflections from their 'penetrating' interview questions heighten the tension in women who are used to having all their questions promptly answered. I'm a novelist, so I know how to 'engage the audience' by delaying the answers to their questions and constantly creating new waves of curiosity.

All my polyamorous relationships start with dating a stranger.
All my counseling patients meet me for the first time and have to be put at ease.

I use humour in all my interactions with all women, strange or familiar.

 

[Smooth_texter]

I got that, but I wanted to put forth that 'humour' is an umbrella term, including 'joking', 'wit', 'sarcasm', et cetera; but also a positive happy mindset that helps chasing the dark clouds away. None of this will work by themselves, so you also need to be engaging in speech and reasonably attractive. Another thing is that while many people think they have humour, their humour isn't really funny or witty, their 'sarcasm' more 'sour grapes', and their jokes mostly at the expense of others.


I don't approach, but that doesn't mean I'm not approached. And if I fancy a woman who approaches me, I'm free to pursue them, as I do regularly. The difference is that I have sex in abundance. New lovers are welcome, but not needed. Because I lack that urge to pounce on sex, women tend to get even more interested and my humorous deflections from their 'penetrating' interview questions heighten the tension in women who are used to having all their questions promptly answered. I'm a novelist, so I know how to 'engage the audience' by delaying the answers to their questions and constantly creating new waves of curiosity.

All my polyamorous relationships start with dating a stranger.
All my counseling patients meet me for the first time and have to be put at ease.

I use humour in all my interactions with all women, strange or familiar.

I get it, but as you have said - you are getting approached. This basically means that the women that do so are already physically attracted (looking for the artist type, which is their type). From there on, not much game is needed (Unless a man is not socially calibrated). And wit/humor is one of the tools in that toolbox. The other things that you have mentioned are added bonuses, which increase their attraction.

This proves the whole premise of my thread - "GAME" cannot create physical attraction, but you can increase physical attraction that is already there with "GAME".

 

[characternote]

This proves the whole premise of my thread - "GAME" cannot create physical attraction, but you can increase physical attraction that is already there with "GAME".

This is essentially work Mark Manson says - that game is their to AMPLIFY EXISTING attraction.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

This proves the whole premise of my thread - "GAME" cannot create physical attraction, but you can increase physical attraction that is already there with "GAME".

You need a combination of 'skills/talents', absolutely.

I do find that it balances itself. For instance, I didn't wear an eyepatch before 2015, and probably wasn't so 'interesting' to women. I also noticed more interest after I grew my beard which also makes me appear more masculine and as a result I don't have to 'woo' women with my words like I used to need.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Here's an experiance I had, that points out that Game can be non-existant, or even negative. But the end result is success. I'm a big outdoors fanatic and in particular, love the desert. I found out there was a leader-led series of day-hikes over a long weekend in SoCal. So I signed up and drove down. Stayed overnight before the meetup at a small town. When I got up, I made the mistake of drinking the room coffee. As it wound up giving me GI issues, a bit later. I drove and met up with the group. About a dozen and the leader. Most were middle aged, a few couples and a young woman who was a student at UNLV. I noticed she drove a nice Mustang. I chatted a bit with her and a few others. Well. The bad coffee kicked in and, it being the desert, with minimal cover, I had to walk almost to the horizon to find cover to take a dump. I got back I told the group I wasn't feeling well, would drive back to town and meet them tomorrow. Without hesitation, the UNLV girl said she'd felt like going back to town as well. We drove into town and met at the motel parking lot. She right away said; " Lets get a room." I told her; "You understand I'm sick? And not like a headache, or stuffy nose sick." She shrugged it off and said, 'that's fine, Just get Pepto-bismal or something. You'll get better." Well. I did get better in a couple of hours. We did the deed and the next day, we got up too late to meet the group. So we did some hiking around on our own.

I did meet up with her a couple of months later for New Years Eve in LA.