Let's Be Real Here Pt.4 - "GAME" alone cannot create physical attraction

[DreamAgain]

Sounds like some boring ass women if you ask me...

Welcome to the USA.

 

[itouchyou]

But sure, go ahead spending years working on your looks only to just rarely getting all the way with women because your character is dull and boring.

All you have to do is make them feel good, make them have fun. Your looks aren't going to do sh!t to give them that sort of tingles.

It's always interesting how two people can do the same thing and come to vastly different conclusions.

When I was the best I'd ever looked in life, I would just have normal, effortless conversations with women, not practicing game at all, and that's all it took.

I think game is disingenuous if it's not a part of who someone is, which is why it doesn't work many times. If you're "turning on" your personality when you're around a woman and you're not naturally like that, I think women pick up on it and as a result it doesn't work.

Every now and then I see a video of a guy talking to a girl and I just think to myself.. "this is so forced and unnatural"

Paul Janka is more of my style. Indirect and natural.

 

[Smooth_texter]

I found the opposite to be true. The more I worked on my charisma, became more knowledgable, increased my wittiness, it had a worse effect on my dates.

Most attractive girls I have been on dates with only liked to talk about trips, restaurants, how bad traffic is, and gossiping about her friends. Trends on social media, new shows on Netflix. Maybe a brief comment on their work on how annoying their boss is.

More charisma, more knowledge about various topics did nothing to help with relatability to any of this.

Working on my physique and my finances helped me much more than that.

I have also experienced this in some degree.

I do not watch reality tv (or almost any tv) and I am not aware of the current RT stars of the current celebrity gossip. Such topics come up on with some dates and at work.

What DreamAgain says is that by constantly self improving, while at the same time the opposite gender not putting effort, we widen the gap between our characters and interests. And this leads to repercussions further down the line.

An easy solution is to not take such women seriously (although the majority now are like this), unless you find a decent girl who is highly interested in you.

 

[Smooth_texter]

It's always interesting how two people can do the same thing and come to vastly different conclusions.

When I was the best I'd ever looked in life, I would just have normal, effortless conversations with women, not practicing game at all, and that's all it took.

I think game is disingenuous if it's not a part of who someone is, which is why it doesn't work many times. If you're "turning on" your personality when you're around a woman and you're not naturally like that, I think women pick up on it and as a result it doesn't work.

Every now and then I see a video of a guy talking to a girl and I just think to myself.. "this is so forced and unnatural"

Paul Janka is more of my style. Indirect and natural.

Actually, Paul Janka is a great example that having generic game and male model looks can get you a lot of women. I have watched like 10 of his approach videos, which are between a minute and a half, and two minutes. He is 6'2", full head of hair, swimmer build. Claims between 250 and 300 notches.

The whole way he conducts his approaches is something like:

- Meeting the girl trough indirect approach. Usually asking her to help him with directions.
- Doing a cold read/commenting on some specific thing about the girl (accent, city or uni that she attended)
- Asking the girls for a recommendation for good spot/bar
- Asking for their number, to meet up in case he goes to the bar in question

In my opinion, there is literally no way to game a girl so much that she could form a strong attraction for you in under two minutes. He just worked volume and contacted the women that were the most physically attracted to him.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Thank you, that was my point.

"GAME" cannot create physical attraction, contrary to what is said by PUAs and red pill podcasts (or even discussed here). It can amplify it, if it was already there, by showing experience (pre-selection).

Most attractive people (women in specific) by default have very good game, since whether they like it or not, get approached a lot or have to deal with a lot of interested potential partners. So they would know at minimum how to effectively "brush off" low value candidates.

Actually, my experience is women don't have good game.

I'm just gonna say that the one thing that changed everything for me was game, nothing else changed. I went from barely any interest from women to getting relatively easy lays, just by figuring out which buttons to press.

I read all the time here about how looks and such is so damn important, but unless you look absolutely hideous or like a landwhale it's probably the single most incorrect general assumption about female attraction I see.

They are not men, they aren't attracted to men in same way we get attracted to women. Women are the ones who have to prioritize their looks first, there's an entire multi billion dollar industry just to cater to female beauty.

But sure, go ahead spending years working on your looks only to just rarely getting all the way with women because your character is dull and boring.

All you have to do is make them feel good, make them have fun. Your looks aren't going to do sh!t to give them that sort of tingles.

Both aspects can be worked on simultaneously though, it's just stupid to ignore game and put all your money on looks.

I agree with most of what you said However Looks can give them gina tingles.

in an earlier post. I relayed an experience I had, while being sick with GI issues. And as being as far from gaming this girl as you can imagine. Nevertheless, she aggressively pursued the situation. And. When we finally did it. She was pretty wet & horny.

This doesn’t mean game can’t.

However. For a contrary view, see Asssanova.

 

[Serenity]

I think game is disingenuous if it's not a part of who someone is, which is why it doesn't work many times. If you're "turning on" your personality when you're around a woman and you're not naturally like that, I think women pick up on it and as a result it doesn't work.

This I agree with, but that's not how I think about game. Personally I internalized it (or the parts that worked) to a point I am the game. There's nothing disingenuous to pick up on anymore because this is how I am now and I like it. I am nothing like a PUA, their methods are crude and make me cringe.

I didn't go learn a bunch of techniques, routines or any of the other superficial crap. I set out to understand what works, what doesn't and why it works. That's game to me, at least the game that works. It's not just learned, it's developed, like any natural would develop without knowing through their childhood if well socialized. I was just late and had to catch up, I was aware of the process, that's the only difference between me and a natural who couldn't tell you crap about how they're successful.

I agree with most of what you said However Looks can give them gina tingles.

To some degree, just like men can be attracted to personality. My point was which they place more importance on, not that looks are irrelevant.

 

[Smooth_texter]

This I agree with, but that's not how I think about game. Personally I internalized it (or the parts that worked) to a point I am the game. There's nothing disingenuous to pick up on anymore because this is how I am now and I like it. I am nothing like a PUA, their methods are crude and make me cringe.

I didn't go learn a bunch of techniques, routines or any of the other superficial crap. I set out to understand what works, what doesn't and why it works. That's game to me, at least the game that works. It's not just learned, it's developed, like any natural would develop without knowing through their childhood if well socialized. I was just late and had to catch up, I was aware of the process, that's the only difference between me and a natural who couldn't tell you crap about how they're successful.


To some degree, just like men can be attracted to personality. My point was which they place more importance on, not that looks are irrelevant.

He didn’t. I have certain criteria and I am attractive enough to attract the type man who meets that criteria. The SMP is self selecting. High SMV people can attract other high SMV people. If an individual is not high SMV then reality is that such an individual is unlikely to be able to attract and maintain a high SMV partner.

Game or charm helps men of similar attractiveness differentiate themselves from others. Game or charm can raise SMV as well but generally not by a huge amount. A 3 isn’t suddenly going to become a 9 on game alone.

My husband had game/charm but had sufficient physical attractiveness that he got the opportunity to demonstrate his charm.

While I get what you are saying, "GAME" does not matter if you do not meet her minimum looks threshold. Above is a direct quote from our very own @BeExcellent

 

[Serenity]

While I get what you are saying, "GAME" does not matter if you do not meet her minimum looks threshold. Above is a direct quote from our very own @BeExcellent

This is true. If a woman has a minimum looks threshold and you're below it, no amount of talk and behavior can change that.

I'm not one of those guys who believe game is a wonderful magic that can persuade any woman, it's not. It is necessary though. She does point this out in a way, looks got his foot in the door, but without the charm the door would shut again.

I might be a bit biased though. I consider my own looks to be a bit above average, I also definitely got the height. I didn't even realize this back when I struggled. All I did change was my personality and the difference was huge in terms of women. It could be that this was all I lacked and I always did have the right look (it could be better, but I mean good enough, above the threshold).

It makes me wonder if there are more guys there who are looking good enough, but keep grinding away at perfecting their looks, ignoring working on their "game" when they could at least start getting success with women much faster. This can come from poor self-image, like I had, I didn't think I was good enough until I just decided that I was and started acting accordingly.

From what I've seen, if you look somewhere around average or better it's not hard to have success with women if you know what you're doing. Sure, if you're noticably below average you should definitely enhance what can be enhanced because the chances will be too low.

What I really want to kill is the false dilemma of it all. Should you work on looks or game? To that my answer is yes, do both. Don't go for just trying to improve looks thinking it will solve everything while neglecting the other aspects that affect attraction. Just like someone shouldn't go for pure game thinking it will solve everything while they neglect looks, looking like a goblin.

That's what I find so stupid about the "what is better, looks or game?" threads, both matter. Maybe the guys talking down on game just always had it naturally, but they didn't have the looks until they worked on it and now they have success, so looks is EVERYTHING. Just a thought, could be they're as biased as me from their own personal anecdotal experience.

 

[DreamAgain]

This is true. If a woman has a minimum looks threshold and you're below it, no amount of talk and behavior can change that.

I'm not one of those guys who believe game is a wonderful magic that can persuade any woman, it's not. It is necessary though. She does point this out in a way, looks got his foot in the door, but without the charm the door would shut again.

I might be a bit biased though. I consider my own looks to be a bit above average, I also definitely got the height. I didn't even realize this back when I struggled. All I did change was my personality and the difference was huge in terms of women. It could be that this was all I lacked and I always did have the right look (it could be better, but I mean good enough, above the threshold).

It makes me wonder if there are more guys there who are looking good enough, but keep grinding away at perfecting their looks, ignoring working on their "game" when they could at least start getting success with women much faster. This can come from poor self-image, like I had, I didn't think I was good enough until I just decided that I was and started acting accordingly.

From what I've seen, if you look somewhere around average or better it's not hard to have success with women if you know what you're doing. Sure, if you're noticably below average you should definitely enhance what can be enhanced because the chances will be too low.

What I really want to kill is the false dilemma of it all. Should you work on looks or game? To that my answer is yes, do both. Don't go for just trying to improve looks thinking it will solve everything while neglecting the other aspects that affect attraction. Just like someone shouldn't go for pure game thinking it will solve everything while they neglect looks, looking like a goblin.

That's what I find so stupid about the "what is better, looks or game?" threads, both matter. Maybe the guys talking down on game just always had it naturally, but they didn't have the looks until they worked on it and now they have success, so looks is EVERYTHING. Just a thought, could be they're as biased as me from their own personal anecdotal experience.

I think game is such an ambiguous term, but I agree with the general sentiment that you should improve everything. Looks, social skills, knowledge, finances. There is no time to rest because someone better is just 1 click away for many of these women.

How did you run into these desirable women, where did you meet them?

What are your minimum criteria for deciding to spend time with a woman? I think on the looks front most here require she be thin and have a pretty face. This takes away many candidates in the west already with obesity on the rise big time.

I think it is pretty obvious what guys need to do in order to "level up" in 2023, but the bigger question is, where do you find the females who have equally leveled up to your level?

 

[Serenity]

How did you run into these desirable women, where did you meet them?

I'm Norwegian and live in Norway, so that's a bit of an advantage... Good women aren't that rare here, both in terms of looks and personality. If this forum is anything to go by they're like unicorns over in the US.

 

[DreamAgain]

I'm Norwegian and live in Norway, so that's a bit of an advantage... Good women aren't that rare here, both in terms of looks and personality. If this forum is anything to go by they're like unicorns over in the US.

Yes, when I visited Oslo I saw many good looking women.

 

[BeExcellent]

I can see that receiving a lot of attention is every woman's personal drug of choice, even for a married one. A woman's game is to dress or create an environment in which she would attract the most interest, or even make the suitors compete for her.

It would be interesting to know you honest thoughts on what might happen if you came across a man that is taller, more handsome, with a better physique and net worth that your current husband?

Couple things here. One is that attention from people you are NOT interested in gets old. What if you had an unattractive girl throwing herself at you (or countless unattractive girls)? You’d get tired of it.

That is why I say I am grateful (because beauty is a gift, and on the one hand I appreciate that asset), but it is a responsibility too because people place all sorts of assumptions on you, pay unwanted attention, etc.). That can be a burden.

Attention in and of itself is NOT my “drug of choice” at all. I rarely wear make up on my day to day, wear very little make up (mascara & lipstick) at work, and dress in a ladylike manner. For my husband I’ll get dolled up if we are going out. But literally for years I have actively downplayed my looks because I wish to discourage rather than encourage unwanted attention. Men still hit on me.

So the first assumption you make about me isn’t true and never was.

The question you pose is ridiculous from where I sit. Your question assumes I’d be open to another man, actively looking and comparing even. But I’m not. You see I chose my husband. Does not matter who else comes along. I’m not open to another man, period. Doesn’t matter who he is or what he looks like.

That is loyalty borne of character. Yes I’ve had other very handsome successful men in my environment before, so what? I didn’t chose those men. I chose my husband. I gave a vow to be faithful and be with him for the rest of our lives. And that is exactly what I am going to do.

This is why character is so important and character is what you need to look for in a woman.

 

[BeExcellent]

It's always interesting how two people can do the same thing and come to vastly different conclusions.

When I was the best I'd ever looked in life, I would just have normal, effortless conversations with women, not practicing game at all, and that's all it took.

I think game is disingenuous if it's not a part of who someone is, which is why it doesn't work many times. If you're "turning on" your personality when you're around a woman and you're not naturally like that, I think women pick up on it and as a result it doesn't work.

Every now and then I see a video of a guy talking to a girl and I just think to myself.. "this is so forced and unnatural"

Paul Janka is more of my style. Indirect and natural.

Concur 100% about Paul Janka.

 

[itouchyou]

It makes me wonder if there are more guys there who are looking good enough, but keep grinding away at perfecting their looks, ignoring working on their "game" when they could at least start getting success with women much faster. This can come from poor self-image, like I had, I didn't think I was good enough until I just decided that I was and started acting accordingly.

I am guilty of this. I'm probably at 15-17% bodyfat right now and the difference in my face when I get to 9% is like going from a 5/10 to 8-9/10. Literally get women aggressively staring me down when I'm lean. They also approach. I grew up unattractive for the majority of my life and as a result that mindset stuck with me forever. I operate purely based on logic and as a result, when I get to 9% I know how attractive I am and then act accordingly.

The odd thing is, even now at 15-17% bodyfat, women strike up conversations with me waiting for the elevator and whatnot, and they're pretty friendly. My past experience being chubby vs lean tells me that attractive women do not strike up conversations with men like this unless they're attractive. Maybe I'm too hard on myself.

Attention in and of itself is NOT my “drug of choice” at all. I rarely wear make up on my day to day, wear very little make up (mascara & lipstick) at work, and dress in a ladylike manner. For my husband I’ll get dolled up if we are going out. But literally for years I have actively downplayed my looks because I wish to discourage rather than encourage unwanted attention. Men still hit on me.

I noticed this about an older lady I was interested in a while back. She wore no makeup when travelling alone, but in all her private gatherings with husband/friends/family she puts it on. Takes her from a 5/10 to probably 9/10. Makes sense, and it's what I deduced so the fact that you confirm it makes sense.

 

[BoostedArrow]

Can you seduce women with just your words? Yes, you can. In the comment section on a Quora answer, some women react:
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Quora is the cancerous brother of reddit