Is there any solution? I feel like there's no good answer for me. It's all a mess

[corrector]

Right now it's around 5 but there's only been a few votes

I see. You need to pay for a higher plan in order to get sufficient votes. It's worth the money to get enough votes to get to the bottom of it.
It is very important to know where you stand.

That being said, I would still take their scores with a grain of salt. If you are after young White women, it's one thing. However, I've noticed that because of my skin complexion, the odd Indian lady might be somewhat more attracted to me. So just because you have a low score, doesn't mean that some girl out there can't find you attractive to them. It just means that day-game cold approach may not be viable for you. People like @characternote also have sub-par looks (ie I would guess a 5/10 like yours) and he would focus on night-game or places where women are socially expecting guys to approach them and you don't have that aspect that you are distrubing someone in those environments. If he doesn't do day-game then it says allot.

Are you using recent photos for your OLD profile or are you using older ones?

 

[BergischerLöwe]

That's your perception and not reality. If a woman doesn't want to talk to you, she'll give you one word answers and won't help you along in the conversation. The conversation will fizzle out in 30-60 seconds. That stuff happens all the time to approachers like myself and other guys on the forum who actively approach like @Jesse Pinkman and @nicksaiz65 .



What women say they want and what women actually respond to in reality are two different things. Even master PUA Ross Jeffries said this back in 1992. The 68 seconds from where I've started this video explain a lot. Ross did a great job mastering the way of speaking in soundbites for media here.

If you want to get laid conventionally (i.e. paying for sex indirectly), you're going to need to be less of a homebody.



Mental health therapy has value in certain circumstances but one of its key limitations is that it doesn't make anyone a great seducer. A mental health therapist has no training on what it takes to effectively start the seduction process. The typical mental health therapist cannot teach you how to chat up a woman in real life and arrange a date step by step. The typical mental health therapist cannot teach you how to get more matches on Tinder/Bumble and how to text more effectively inside those apps. The typical mental health therapist has no idea how to effectively slide into DMs on Instagram and arrange dates. That's not covered in academic training.



So what? There are plenty of introverted men who are high quality seducers. How does an introvert seduce? Good introverted seducers are often good at non-bar approaching. Nightlife venues are for more extroverted and high energy personality types for the most part, though some introverts can be successful at some quieter lounge type places. Non-bar approaching is the best form of in-person approaching for the introvert. They can recognize indicators of interest (IOIs) and make it happen. I'll cover in a moment how you can get more IOIs so you won't have to do as much on approaches. I am an introvert. I have a lifetime notch count higher than most men's lifetime notch count. Introverts can be very good at assessing their own strengths and develop an approach and seduction plan that works with their introversion. You don't have to change that part of you. Quit making excuses.



Good. If you can get big muscles and lower body fat, you'll have more IOIs in life. You could pick up women at the gym, the grocery store (using Day Bang techniques), or even a bookstore. If you like to read, you can hang out at Barnes & Noble and pick up women using Day Bang techniques. Also, a lot of Barnes & Noble locations also have coffee shops in there so you can run Day Bang coffee shop style game in there too. It's like visiting 2 venues in one.



If I were to have a mustache, I would look like either Tom Selleck or a 1980s porn star. I might think that looks cool but others wouldn't think so. My mustache might be perceived as creepy or something that a child molester would have.

Germanic handlebar mustaches with blond or light brown hair would look goofy. Almost every woman would be turned off by your mustache. You would not look too boyish without one and even if you did, it could help you in seducing the most desirable 18-22 year olds.

Shaving off your mustache is the easiest thing to do.

I'm neutral on the long hair. It depends on the guy.

Your fashion might be outdated too.

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You also have an irrational fear based upon a faulty comprehension of statistics and mathematics about causing pregnancy. Wear a condom. Most of the women you'll have sex with at your age will be under 25 and using some form of birth control. The combination of condoms and a woman on birth control is very effective and you don't have to waste money on a surgery. Even condoms alone without a woman using birth control is effective.

It's true I think that I'd be better off doing non-bar approaches if I went that route. Maybe somebody like me should get coaching but most of the PUA coaches appear to be scammers. I need one that's actually legit if I do that. But even if I potentially need coaching to overcome my fears associated with approaching, I should focus on being able to do non-bar approaches.

I really do think that as far as my concerns about accidental pregnancy, I need to get a vasectomy before I have sex again. I don't have health insurance rn but when I get insured I'll go and get the procedure done. But I'm apprehensive about the procedure since I feel uneasy about having my sack sliced open, and I'm also worried about post vasectomy pain as some guys report. I need to shop around for a good surgeon to do the procedure. Condoms and women being on birth control don't do enough to alleviate my fears of accidental pregnancy. For me to have sex again it's imperative that I get a vasectomy done. But I need to find a way to lessen my apprehension that I've just spoken of.

It is true that I may get more IOIs if I lose bodyfat, but in general I don't get IOIs in public at all. But then again I may not notice. Still I never catch girls checking me out or anything.

I'm really torn about shaving my mustache off. I get what you're saying but I've had it for a while now, and last year I got the same suggestion on another forum and I did shave it off but it made no difference. But I was only swiping on apps anyway. I have a gig in a couple days and I wonder if I should shave it before the gig or not. I personally think i look pretty cool with a mustache but I do understand that some women may potentially be turned off by it. But it isn't readily apparent in my pics on dating apps that I have a handlebar mustache, though I have some sort of mustache in every pic.

 

[BeExcellent]

Bass player in a band that performs can’t meet chicks.

Smile at the audience whilst performing!???

Enough excuses already.

 

[corrector]

.women simply domt want you, and you dont want them.

You mean to say the women that he actually wants/likes doesn't want him, which is different. He's not incel because he could settle with a woman that's two points lower if he was that desperate. At the end of the day, I think he intends to settle.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I am sorry man. I have close friends like this who'll also never reproduce . Their distance from the game became too big to make up and they're satisfied with it too. That makes them rather VOLcel than INcel.

Find bigger goals. I am a musician too. Make great music, the internet assures you someone will someday find it and benefit from it. Make music wuth your heart, not so you can "become famous ".

Stop typing these long azz pathetic posts. Put that energy in anything else ..women simply domt want you, and you dont want them.

I already told you to get other ,bigger goals in life such as helping the less fortunate.

If you get a woman i promise you she'll make the devil bluss by her evilness . Step out of the game if you are smart and pursue other things.

You know what, you just might be right. I do think the distance from the game in my case is pretty far. I haven't had sex in four years after all. And even if I improve I'll be too old to experience the kind of love life I wanted while still young. I wanted to have all these fun exciting love life experiences when I was still young, but I think that's passed me by at this point. What are some ways I can cope? Again I commend you for giving it to me straight. I feel insulted when people give me platitudes so this is a breath of fresh air

 

[BergischerLöwe]

Bass player in a band that performs can’t meet chicks.

Smile at the audience whilst performing!???

Enough excuses already.

All of the musicians I know don't have any greater than average luck with women. It's a myth that musicians get girls easily. That only happens if you're a famous rapper or a DJ

 

[BergischerLöwe]

You mean to say the women that he actually wants/likes doesn't want him, which is different. He's not incel because he could settle with a woman that's two points lower if he was that desperate. At the end of the day, I think he intends to settle.

I don't really think I want to settle tbh

 

[BergischerLöwe]

I see. You need to pay for a higher plan in order to get sufficient votes. It's worth the money to get enough votes to get to the bottom of it.
It is very important to know where you stand.

That being said, I would still take their scores with a grain of salt. If you are after young White women, it's one thing. However, I've noticed that because of my skin complexion, the odd Indian lady might be somewhat more attracted to me. So just because you have a low score, doesn't mean that some girl out there can't find you attractive to them. It just means that day-game cold approach may not be viable for you. People like @characternote also have sub-par looks (ie I would guess a 5/10 like yours) and he would focus on night-game or places where women are socially expecting guys to approach them and you don't have that aspect that you are distrubing someone in those environments. If he doesn't do day-game then it says allot.

Are you using recent photos for your OLD profile or are you using older ones?

I'm using fairly recent pics but some of them are from a few years ago

 

[corrector]

It's true I think that I'd be better off doing non-bar approaches if I went that route. Maybe somebody like me should get coaching but most of the PUA coaches appear to be scammers. I need one that's actually legit if I do that. But even if I potentially need coaching to overcome my fears associated with approaching, I should focus on being able to do non-bar approaches.

Nightgame is like the shallow end of the swimming pool and day-game is like the deep end. You need to get comfortable swimming in the shallow end of the pool before you start diving into the deep end. Otherwise, your mind will play tricks with you and you'll find yourself talking yourself out of making approaches, because, after all, as you said, you are interrupting someone's day.

 

[corrector]

I'm using fairly recent pics but some of them are from a few years ago

That explains why you are getting diminishing returns on OLD. You simply got uglier and your looks score must have gone down.

 

[BergischerLöwe]

Nightgame is like the shallow end of the swimming pool and day-game is like the deep end. You need to get comfortable swimming in the shallow end of the pool before you start diving into the deep end. Otherwise, your mind will play tricks with you and you'll find yourself talking yourself out of making approaches, because, after all, as you said, you are interrupting someone's day.

Problem is I don't like going to bars and I'd have to force myself to go to bars and drive far to get there and spend a bunch of money. Doesn't sound very sustainable. I think getting coaching and then doing non-bar approaches is a better bet

 

[BergischerLöwe]

That explains why you are getting diminishing returns on OLD. You simply got uglier and your looks score must have gone down.

I actually look better than I did around three or four years ago, I was pretty fat back then and I've since lost a fair amount of weight. But I still have more fat to lose

 

[Gamisch]

You mean to say the women that he actually wants/likes doesn't want him, which is different. He's not incel because he could settle with a woman that's two points lower if he was that desperate. At the end of the day, I think he intends to settle.

Because he's a spoiled lil' biatch that never had to work for anything in life , hits almost 30 and still lives a teenager's dream life of "playing in a band". Never lifted a finger in his life . Probably doesn't know how to change a light bulb

He needs some more pain in life to know what's what. His loneliness is a great first step towards some needed realism.

Next will be a 304 who'll milk him dry financially , as much as she can. I geuss it will be a passport bro-ish type of deal. A Latina? Latinas are vicious...

 

[BergischerLöwe]

Because he's a spoiled lil' biatch that never had to work for anything in life , hits almost 30 and still lives a teenager's dream life of "playing in a band". Never lifted a finger in his life . Probably doesn't know how to change a light bulb

He needs some more pain in life to know what's what. His loneliness is a great first step towards some needed realism.

Next will be a 304 who'll milk him dry financially , as much as she can. I geuss it will be a passport bro-ish type of deal. A Latina? Latinas are vicious...

Bro come on there's no need to put me down like that

 

[Millard Fillmore]

All those seem to be objectively true tho. I’m describing my situation as I see it

A lot of people get attached to their self-perceived identities and refuse to let go. They always complain and seldom change because to them that's just the way it is or who they are.

Not my style. IME it's better to let go of those self perceptions. By thinking differently I become who I want. It takes work though.

 

[Gamisch]

Bro come on there's no need to put me down like that

Ya lucky we'll never meet in person because I heard I have a vicious right slap that wakes MF's up when they refuse to wake up and do what must be done..


I am being as nice as I possibly can ..

 

[Serenity]

Up to this point apps are the only way I've been able to be visible by women at all. In the past when I've tried to quit them I've always come back to them for this reason. Without apps I just get nothing, at least that's how it's been so far.

Given how passive you are, you'll continue to get nothing if you continue doing nothing. Women won't just suddenly fall onto your lap, you'll have to make your presence known. Since you're not an extrovert who likes to grab the attention of everyone around that leaves going up to them to talk.

Maybe it is better if I frame it as talking to someone without any other motive, but it's still gonna take me a while to have the courage to approach and to find a good venue for it.

It definitely is better to frame it that way. You're just experimenting, any result is a good result. Whether you get one step closer to what you want or not, you will have something to learn from. Reward yourself not for the outcome, but for having the courage to challenge your fears to begin with.

You'll probably think you'll need to know what to say before walking up, you don't. If you approach anyways, the extreme awkwardness of saying nothing will conjure up a billion better things to say right there in the moment you need it. Nothing you think before approaching is going to help you, so you better just block all thoughts and force your body to physically move over. What you need to say will come to you in the moment, anything is better than nothing.

I feel like I'm gonna need to pay somebody to teach me how to approach and help me conquer my negative thoughts about approaching, but most guys who teach such things appear to be scammers. What coaching could I potentially get that's legit?

Whether you pay someone, get free help or get no help, you're still going to have to do the heavy lifting and feel very uncomfortable at times. Know that if you feel very uncomfortable, you're going in the right direction, that's where you'll grow as a man.

I can give it a shot, I will refuse payment though. I'm no expert, but as you have noticed, neither are most other guys who teach this... At the end of the day nobody can do this for you, you'll have to put in the work.

Feel free to PM me if you're interested.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I think a healthy dose of No More Mr. Nice Guy and When I Say No I Feel Guilty is needed before therapy.

Yes, I was intending to mention NMMNG by Dr. Glover, or at least to watch some of his interviews and presentations on YouTube and specifically to his conversation about “walking through open doors”.

Like I said tho I've seen guys way uglier and less masculine than me get hotter girls than I'm used to getting, so one would think I'd be able to do a bit better than the result I've attained thus far.

I’m somewhat empathetic to your situation, but I cannot help but think how immature you sound from this statement. That’s not intended as a put down!

You’re an average-looking guy, not rich, not high-status, you state you “got with” ordinary, slightly overweight women (which actually means DID get aroused by them) who have good qualities, yet you are stating such women are of “lower quality” simply because they are not as pretty as stranger women on the street and wonder how other stranger men got them.

How do you know these prettier, stranger women on the street are “higher quality” (which you haven’t defined)? Did you live with them? Have you even spoken to them? How do you know these women will be a picnic to deal with in your live-happily-ever-after-in-the-boondocks goal? Have you ever even thought of what goes into living with a woman and how her looks might not factor into any of her obligations in cohabitating with you?

I guess you haven’t given thought to any of this. And you being cooped up with the lives of other men, the uglier ones who you also don’t know a damn thing about, is immature. And it seems as even though you HAVE been attracted to “lower quality” women (determined ONLY by their looks) despite you saying you weren’t (how would would you be aroused), you want beautiful women solely to feel better and impress others when out and about? This reminds of a goofy high-school student who thinks dealing with a hot woman is going to be one barrel of fun—because she’s hot!

So, define “quality”. If you don’t mind, tell why the chubby women with desirable qualities you WERE aroused by cannot fit into your long-term goal but prettier ones can solely because they’re pretty.

As for the “uglier guys” you keep mentioning, did you ever think of the possible reasons why these men have women? That you wonder why they have them shows immaturity and lack of understanding of social dynamics and people.

Again, I don’t mean this as an insult. With such lack of social acuity, immaturity, and wanting to be with a woman for looks first and foremost, I’d advise women to stay away from such a man with your long-term goal until he gets his thinking straightened out.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Ok this is all good but how do I become more exciting? Idk how I'd do that exactly. It's true that I'm a musician but not as many women listen to the kinda stuff my band puts out. You're right that I have a pessimistic attitude but that's how I always have been. Any time I've tried to be more optimistic about things I just think I'm lying to myself. I just have a natural tendency to be more cynical for some reason

Again, you have to love yourself and create the life you want in order for other people to be happy in your presence. No one cares about the past but the value you have to currently offer. Other members have mentioned what you can do to move forward and progress significantly to be more attractive, charming, and outgoing but you have to put in the hard work… or are you just lazy or a defeatist?

There is only one life to live, make the most of it. You would be surprised how many doors open just with a change of attitude.

“Nothing outside of yourself that can ever enable you to get better, stronger, richer, quicker, or smarter. Everything is within. Everything exists. Seek nothing outside of yourself.” - Miyamoto Musashi

 

[BergischerLöwe]

Given how passive you are, you'll continue to get nothing if you continue doing nothing. Women won't just suddenly fall onto your lap, you'll have to make your presence known. Since you're not an extrovert who likes to grab the attention of everyone around that leaves going up to them to talk.


It definitely is better to frame it that way. You're just experimenting, any result is a good result. Whether you get one step closer to what you want or not, you will have something to learn from. Reward yourself not for the outcome, but for having the courage to challenge your fears to begin with.

You'll probably think you'll need to know what to say before walking up, you don't. If you approach anyways, the extreme awkwardness of saying nothing will conjure up a billion better things to say right there in the moment you need it. Nothing you think before approaching is going to help you, so you better just block all thoughts and force your body to physically move over. What you need to say will come to you in the moment, anything is better than nothing.


Whether you pay someone, get free help or get no help, you're still going to have to do the heavy lifting and feel very uncomfortable at times. Know that if you feel very uncomfortable, you're going in the right direction, that's where you'll grow as a man.

I can give it a shot, I will refuse payment though. I'm no expert, but as you have noticed, neither are most other guys who teach this... At the end of the day nobody can do this for you, you'll have to put in the work.

Feel free to PM me if you're interested.

Ok cool I'll PM you