Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Right. But I revert to the analogy I've made before about Big Bang Theory.

For anyone who's watched that show, all the male main characters are socially awkward to some degree (some having more severe social awkwardness than others).

Leonard is an example of garden variety social awkwardness. Leonard (in the early days of the show when he was still pursuing girls) would sometimes mess up during the pursual phase. He would immediately catch himself, however (and then him and the girl would both be able to laugh it off). It's no surprise Leonard managed to snag Penny (a beautiful normal woman) on season 2.

Sheldon and Howard's social awkwardness, on the other hand, is way more severe than Leonard's. Even though the producers insist no one on that show is on the spectrum, I'm pretty sure Sheldon and Howard are on the spectrum. Before Howard gets with Bernadette, girls are genuinely creeped out by his pursuals. Unlike Leonard, Howard is too lacking in social awareness to even realize he's done anything wrong (as one example, Howard saw nothing wrong with chasing an attractive female jogger through the park).

Sheldon doesn't really pursue anyone (Even when he manages to start dating Amy, an extremely strange woman, that was only because his friends basically set the arrangement up for him). With social situations in general, however, the outside world is repulsed by Sheldon. Just like Howard, Sheldon lacks the social awareness to realize he's done anything wrong when he messes up socially.

yeah, even though some dating coaches for men say its the learning process, as in, its inevitable to have awkward interactions with women from approaching them that result in making women uncomfortable, as in, its part of the process of getting better.

 

[GoodMan32]

yeah, even though some dating coaches for men say its the learning process, as in, its inevitable to have awkward interactions with women from approaching them that result in making women uncomfortable, as in, its part of the process of getting better.

The Leonards of the world can learn from their awkward interactions.

The Howards of the world, on the other hand, are incapable of learning (because they have no idea what they did wrong in the first place)

 

[GoodMan32]

On a different online community I belong to, I got the following comment from a female member (without her even knowing I'm on the spectrum):

"If you're unable to read a woman's cues, chances are you're on the spectrum."

She then went on to say: "Whatever you do, don't escalate. Since you're unable to tell the difference between friendly and flirting, it isn't your place to take the lead. You'll have to let the woman take the lead."

What she's saying is unfortunate (because as has been said on SoSuave, as well as by my therapist, 85+% of the female population expects the man to take the lead)

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

The Leonards of the world can learn from their awkward interactions.

The Howards of the world, on the other hand, are incapable of learning (because they have no idea what they did wrong in the first place)

i figure the howard part describes people or men with autism, as in, they specifically or just literally don't know what they did wrong socially in their interactions, they don't want what it is they did wrong, they are not aware of their mistakes.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

some people say, a good solution for men with autism is to date or pair up with a woman with autism.

 

[GoodMan32]

some people say, a good solution for men with autism is to date or pair up with a woman with autism.

Not the first time I've heard that.

It isn't a foolproof solution.

There's a massive gender imbalance on the spectrum (way more men). So it isn't even mathematically possible for every man on the spectrum to get a woman on the spectrum.

Plus, even broads on the spectrum are prone to creep-shaming us.

 

[Mike32ct]

On a different online community I belong to, I got the following comment from a female member (without her even knowing I'm on the spectrum):

"If you're unable to read a woman's cues, chances are you're on the spectrum."

She then went on to say: "Whatever you do, don't escalate. Since you're unable to tell the difference between friendly and flirting, it isn't your place to take the lead. You'll have to let the woman take the lead."

What she's saying is unfortunate (because as has been said on SoSuave, as well as by my therapist, 85+% of the female population expects the man to take the lead)

Even a lot of NT guys can’t always tell the difference between friendly and flirting. Unless she’s very attracted to the guy, it’s not that obvious at all.

 

[SW15]

Even a lot of NT guys can’t always tell the difference between friendly and flirting. Unless she’s very attracted to the guy, it’s not that obvious at all.

I agree that plenty of neurotypical men do misread situations between friendly and flirting. It's worth it to make a move and assume the flirt. There might be more uncomfortable situation where friendly is misread, but it is better to shoot a shot.

 

[GoodMan32]

I agree that plenty of neurotypical men do misread situations between friendly and flirting. It's worth it to make a move and assume the flirt. There might be more uncomfortable situation where friendly is misread, but it is better to shoot a shot.

That might work for some men (presume it's a flirt, make a move, risk rejection).

It wouldn't work with me. I find it miserable to cross paths with a woman post-rejection. That's a major quality of life issue I don't want to deal with.

 

[SW15]

I find it miserable to cross paths with a woman post-rejection.

In a big city environment, you are unlikely to ever cross paths with anyone from a swipe app after an early stage date failure. I'm describing an interaction of 1-2 dates, no sex, and then a ceasing of contact.

If you're doing in-person approaching, it is possible that you'll have to see a person who rejects you again. I'll give an example from my life.

Many years ago, I approached a woman at the gym. She said no. She gave me an excuse that I knew was a lie. At that time, I regularly worked out in the evenings as did she. I had to see her on a semi regular basis for the next year + at the gym.

A few years passed and I didn't see her at the gym anymore. Last summer, I was in a grocery store and I saw her. She recognized me and we talked briefly.

I found out she got married earlier this year and got married to a guy who approached her at the same gym where I approached her.

This was how I felt about that....



You have a valid point that it can be miserable.

That's not the only female I've had to see again after a failed first date or a rejection of a first date offer. That was just the most unpleasant example.

If you mix up your approaching venues in a bigger city, you have a better chance of not crossing paths. Malls, grocery stores, and parks/walking paths are the better daygame venues for this. Gyms are generally not good because you're likely to see the woman again. If you hit on a woman who works in the same office building for a different company, you're likely to see her again. With nightlife venue approaching, you have a better than average chance of never crossing paths after a failed date or two or failed rejection.

In bigger cities, it's also very possible to avoid seeing ex-girlfriends ever again once they become ex-girlfriends.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Not the first time I've heard that.

It isn't a foolproof solution.

There's a massive gender imbalance on the spectrum (way more men). So it isn't even mathematically possible for every man on the spectrum to get a woman on the spectrum.

Plus, even broads on the spectrum are prone to creep-shaming us.

since autism by default does impact people socially, and what you said at the bottom, that only adds more fuel to fire of my lifelong resentment, i'm sure other many do, of nature and reality always dictating that men have to do the approaching and make the first move all the time, because there is always the risk of making a woman uncomfortable or risk of violating her boundaries, creep-shamed. Yeah its not rejection, its more of not wanting to make a woman uncomfortable, since that has happend to me at times, even though some people say thats inevitable, that no guy in the world is 100 percent creep proof, most guys have had awkward interactions with women that have resulted in making a woman creeped out or uncomfortable, they say its part of the learning process.

 

[tksniper]

Making moves in person is a numbers game not for the faint of heart. If you've only ever made 10 moves your entire lifetime, you won't have enough of a sample size to know if it works or not.

There was a time where I used to hit on women all the time. On a typical weekend, it would take me about 10 rejections before making a move actually worked and I was able to pull. So a guy like me would tell you "Escalating on women in real life usually works!" But what you don't know is the amount of rejections I had to go through.

The reason why most guys prefer online is because you can go through 100 women without an ego bruise. In person flirting is a lot harder.

Having said all of that, my verdict for in person moves is this:

Cons: Your ego will be shatttered and if you don't have resolve, your self esteem might suffer from all the rejections.

Pros: After a few years of playing the numbers game approaching women in real life, you would have calibrated to women and there won't be anything they can throw at you that would throw you off your game.

There's a huge price to pay to be good with escalating with women in real life, but the rewards might be worth it if you are looking for a lot of sex. But if it was easy, everybody would do it.

 

[itouchyou]

Can anyone explain to me what autism is? Sometimes I wonder if I've had it lmao.

Is it the same thing as being a social recluse for a long time and a habitual porn addict that has difficulty being social because they haven't for a long time? Because that happened to me for a while.

Many attractive women who are highly experienced are very good at hiding their interest but after interacting with them I can always tell. I can pick up on the subtleties.

 

[GoodMan32]

In a big city environment, you are unlikely to ever cross paths with anyone from a swipe app after an early stage date failure. I'm describing an interaction of 1-2 dates, no sex, and then a ceasing of contact.

If you're doing in-person approaching, it is possible that you'll have to see a person who rejects you again. I'll give an example from my life.

Many years ago, I approached a woman at the gym. She said no. She gave me an excuse that I knew was a lie. At that time, I regularly worked out in the evenings as did she. I had to see her on a semi regular basis for the next year + at the gym.

A few years passed and I didn't see her at the gym anymore. Last summer, I was in a grocery store and I saw her. She recognized me and we talked briefly.

I found out she got married earlier this year and got married to a guy who approached her at the same gym where I approached her.

This was how I felt about that....



You have a valid point that it can be miserable.

If you mix up your approaching venues in a bigger city, you have a better chance of not crossing paths. Malls, grocery stores, and parks/walking paths are the better daygame venues for this. Gyms are generally not good because you're likely to see the woman again. If you hit on a woman who works in the same office building for a different company, you're likely to see her again. With nightlife venue approaching, you have a better than average chance of never crossing paths after a failed date or two or failed rejection.

In bigger cities, it's also very possible to avoid seeing ex-girlfriends ever again once they become ex-girlfriends.

I'm fine with crossing paths after an early stage failure. It isn't exactly fun to cross paths with a woman I had an early stage failure with (I speak from experience), but crossing paths with a woman I got flat-out rejected by right off the bat is unbearable. To me, that's where the difference lies.

As for your gym story, if I were in your position, I would have stopped going to the gym. That's why I have to really think twice before making a move on a woman I have regular contact with.

It's an unfortunate catch 22. A woman I regularly cross paths with knows me the best (so, statistically, is more likely to feel comfortable accepting my advances), yet it's way too risky for me in the event the woman turns me down.

In other words, the type of woman I'm most likely to succeed with is also the one type of woman I absolutely cannot make a move on.

Funny you mention the possibility of making a move on a woman who works for a different company in the same building. It just so happens a woman fitting that description has called me good-looking before. Then the other day, after I had to cut a discussion we were having short (because I was already a few minutes past the end of my lunch), she touched my wrist and said "we'll talk more next time." I still wouldn't make a move on her (for the reason you mentioned). Plus, she's married. While I'm totally willing to get with a married woman, that's one demographic where you have to let her come to you.

Have you had much success with the daygame venues you mentioned? Even though asking out a woman I'm likely to cross paths with again gives me a panic attack, I've done daygame with total strangers before with relatively little nervousness. I pretty much stopped because the one mild success I had (back when I was 23) compared me to Jeffrey Dahmer when we met up a few days later (which made me self-conscious about day-gaming).

There's also the story I shared with you from when I was 30 (where a young woman visiting my city invited me to a more private location, which I ended up turning down because there was no guarantee of sex). I don't really count that as a success; not because I turned her down, but because I guarantee the only reason that girl talked to me initially was because I was with a few socially smooth acquaintances. Had I been by myself, there's no way she'd give me the time of day.

As for nightlife, since I wasn't even the type to go clubbing at 21, it's out of the question for me to go clubbing at 33 (even if it led to a success, I'd be miserable every second at a night club).

 

[GoodMan32]

since autism by default does impact people socially, and what you said at the bottom, that only adds more fuel to fire of my lifelong resentment, i'm sure other many do, of nature and reality always dictating that men have to do the approaching and make the first move all the time, because there is always the risk of making a woman uncomfortable or risk of violating her boundaries, creep-shamed. Yeah its not rejection, its more of not wanting to make a woman uncomfortable, since that has happend to me at times, even though some people say thats inevitable, that no guy in the world is 100 percent creep proof, most guys have had awkward interactions with women that have resulted in making a woman creeped out or uncomfortable, they say its part of the learning process.

Yeah, it's a catch 22 indeed. The man is supposed to make the first move. Yet at the same time, the man runs the risk of scaring the woman if we come onto her.

And if a man is on the spectrum, there's a high chance he won't even realize what exactly he's doing to scare her.

Neurotypical men are prone to scaring a woman too, no doubt. It's way more likely with a man on the spectrum, however.

 

[GoodMan32]

Can anyone explain to me what autism is? Sometimes I wonder if I've had it lmao.

Is it the same thing as being a social recluse for a long time and a habitual porn addict that has difficulty being social because they haven't for a long time? Because that happened to me for a while.

Many attractive women who are highly experienced are very good at hiding their interest but after interacting with them I can always tell. I can pick up on the subtleties.

What you're describing isn't the same as autism. Becoming a social recluse (under the circumstances you mentioned) is more of a situational thing. Autism is a condition you were born with (and will have until you die).

The fact you can pick up on subtleties is confirmation you aren't on the spectrum.

To answer your question of what autism is, there's a reason it's called a spectrum. In severe cases, you'll need a live-in caretaker at all ages.

In more mild cases (like mine), you're able to work, live alone, pass as neurotypical in most cases, etc.

Society has an incorrect stereotype that being on the spectrum means you're mentally challenged.

While there certainly are cases where someone on the spectrum is mentally challenged (this tends to happen in more severe cases), the rule of thumb is we tend to be booksmart but socially retarded (a lot of normies mistake social retardation for mental retardation).

There's one female poster on here (@BeExcellent) whose husband is on the spectrum (mild case). She summed it up best: Mild cases of ASD tend to be high IQ, low EQ.

Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerburg, Albert Einstein, Elon Musk, and Jerry Seinfeld are all examples of high IQ individuals on the spectrum.

 

[SW15]

As for your gym story, if I were in your position, I would have stopped going to the gym. That's why I have to really think twice before making a move on a woman I have regular contact with.

I kept going and I kept seeing her. It wasn't pleasant. Eventually, I think she changed gyms because I stopped seeing her.

It was less pleasant to find out years later on her wedding website that she married someone met at the same gym where I asked her out. That's clearly a sign that many men approached her in that gym. Even after I approached her and was rejected, I saw another man approach her and it was clear she was rejecting him too.

Some men will either use a service like Classpass or get a secondary gym membership to hit on women. Either of those methods work. Why they'll do it is to keep their primary gym a place where they don't hit on women but use secondary facilities to hit on women. If things don't work at the secondary facilities, they just stop going to those. I don't think most men are this strategic on their gym approaches though. I think the majority of men are hitting on women at their primary gym.

People tend to change primary gyms somewhat regularly. There's a good probability in general that either you will change gyms or she will change gyms within a year. It's also common for couples that meet at the gym to have one person change gym memberships after an extended interaction/relationship fails.

Funny you mention the possibility of making a move on a woman who works for a different company in the same building.

I've always thought it was a good idea to hit on women who work in the same office building as you do but different companies. You happen to be in that building for many hours a day. Why not hit on a woman in that building if an opportunity presents itself? I have done many approaches like that.

This option is likely weaker than it once was for most white collar workers with more remote and hybrid type work.

Have you had much success with the daygame venues you mentioned?

Yes, I have. In terms of the most quantity of dates, grocery stores have been my strongest venue.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Yeah, it's a catch 22 indeed. The man is supposed to make the first move. Yet at the same time, the man runs the risk of scaring the woman if we come onto her.

And if a man is on the spectrum, there's a high chance he won't even realize what exactly he's doing to scare her.

Neurotypical men are prone to scaring a woman too, no doubt. It's way more likely with a man on the spectrum, however.

Reminds me of these comments, they came from other mens dating coaches, they said: "you gotta break some eggs to make an omellete. im sure i creeped out tons of girls over the years".

"It's the learning process. EVERY guy goes through that. Every GIRL goes through similar things, where she reacted in some awkward way to a guy, shooed away a guy she regrets shooing away and now assumes probably hates her, etc., etc. The way you deal with it is by continuing to improve socially, so you can be SMOOTH instead of awkward. This is what everyone does, men and women alike. It is part of the GROWING UP PROCESS."

 

[GoodMan32]

Reminds me of these comments, they came from other mens dating coaches, they said: "you gotta break some eggs to make an omellete. im sure i creeped out tons of girls over the years".

"It's the learning process. EVERY guy goes through that. Every GIRL goes through similar things, where she reacted in some awkward way to a guy, shooed away a guy she regrets shooing away and now assumes probably hates her, etc., etc. The way you deal with it is by continuing to improve socially, so you can be SMOOTH instead of awkward. This is what everyone does, men and women alike. It is part of the GROWING UP PROCESS."

Smooth and the spectrum are an oxymoron (unfortunately)

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Smooth and the spectrum are an oxymoron (unfortunately)

yeah, don't know what else to say. Some people say, men are the only gender that have to work in order to get or acquire things in life, women don't.