Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[BaronOfHair]

Additionally, the fact age gap relationships aren't likely to be serious is a good thing. I don't want a serious relationship.

I encourage you to uncover the thoughts and beliefs behind this statement, then deconstruct them... It sounds like you also have fears of actually falling in love/getting deeply attached, then being hurt when things end-as they inevitably will-and that you're trying to evade all of this, by selecting women whom you're almost guaranteed to NOT fall for/get attached to

I've got some bad* news for you, hoss: Falling deeply in love with another human, then experiencing the pain of their loss when it ends, is a component of living. Everyone goes through it, and you're not so special as to be exempt




*In truth, this is only as "bad" as we make it. Thinking to oneself "This is part of the adventure that is human existence" wards off a great deal of agony

 

[Clockwerk50]

Obviously he wouldn't say "That's insane."

If he really thought I should work on the pregnancy phobia though, he could at least say stuff like:

"Have you thought about getting a vasectomy?"

Or he might cite statistics of how effective condoms and birth control are.

Or "Would you like to work on overcoming your pregnancy phobia?"

Or he might ask me to elaborate on what exactly it is that terrifies me about pregnancy.

The way therapists work is not to get into an argumens with the patient. Their main goal is for their client to open up and rationalize their own conclusions while getting them to talk. As an example, if you would have gotten deeper with your psychologist in regards to why you are scared of getting someone younger pregnant, you could have make arguments in your head why your thoughts are irrational. This could have come in points such as the menstrual cycles, infertility rates in males and females, using protection, her being on a pill, her having a IUD, previous STDs infections, her using a plan b, etc.

What people fail to realize is that, when they are arguing against you and making their points, the message usually falls on deaf’s ears. This can be emphasized by the fact that this post has 16 pages and you have the answer to every single argument that comes in your way or ignore the ones you don’t. Hence, why it is best for you to find the best answers to your problems.

 

[GoodMan32]

I encourage you to uncover the thoughts and beliefs behind this statement, then deconstruct them... It sounds like you also have fears of actually falling in love/getting deeply attached, then being hurt when things end-as they inevitably will-and that you're trying to evade all of this, by selecting women whom you're almost guaranteed to NOT fall for/get attached to

I've got some bad* news for you, hoss: Falling deeply in love with another human, then experiencing the pain of their loss when it ends, is a component of living. Everyone goes through it, and you're not so special as to be exempt




*In truth, this is only as "bad" as we make it. Thinking to oneself "This is part of the adventure that is human existence" wards off a great deal of agony

There was a girl pretty close in age to me who broke up with me when I was in college. I was pretty devastated at the time.

Avoiding heartbreak isn't why I'm into older women though. Fear of pregnancy is.

When I was 20, I nailed some 45+ year olds. 13 years later, I'm still into 45+ year olds. If the pattern has held for this long, we have every reason to believe I'm going to be into 45+ year olds in yet another 13 years (By then, I'm going to be 46, which would put me in the 45+ group myself).

As for why I don't want a serious relationship: By the time I get home from work, I'm too drained (physically and mentally) for a girlfriend/wife.

 

[BaronOfHair]

What people fail to realize is that, when they are arguing against you and making their points, the message usually falls on deaf’s ears. This can be emphasized by the fact that this post has 16 pages and you have the answer to every single argument that comes in your way or ignore the ones you don’t

Doesn't have to be that way. As CanadianBacon observed on the first page https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...me-to-try-with-making-moves-in-person.282277/ ("Ah, the "I'll try to bias the audience first before asking the question in attempt to get the answer I want" trick"), OP set himself up to not be receptive from the very get go


He's especially saddening to me, as I've once been similarly unreachable, and I encounter at least a couple dozen people each day who have no desire to engage in a robust exchange of idea. More and more of folks in our society operate in a fashion similar: They have no desire to learn and grow... They just want someone to "validate their lived experience" I.E. They're violently opposed to anyone pointing out that the story they've been telling themselves just may not be a 100% true

 

[Clockwerk50]

Doesn't have to be that way. As CanadianBacon observed on the first page https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...me-to-try-with-making-moves-in-person.282277/ ("Ah, the "I'll try to bias the audience first before asking the question in attempt to get the answer I want" trick"), OP set himself up to not be receptive from the very get go


He's especially saddening to me, as I've once been similarly unreachable, and I encounter at least a couple dozen people each day who have no desire to engage in a robust exchange of idea. More and more of folks in our society operate in a fashion similar: They have no desire to learn and grow... They just want someone to "validate their lived experience" I.E. They're violently opposed to anyone pointing out that the story they've been telling themselves just may not be a 100% true

As French philosopher Albert Camus once said, “those who lack the courage will often find a philosophy to justify it”.

Instead of some people confronting their fears or taking bold actions, they often create or adopt beliefs that excuse their lack of bravery. It is basically a coping mechanism where one avoids facing uncomfortable truths and challenging situations by masking their hesitations with illogical reasoning. It serves as a reminder of the importance of self-awareness and the courage to act, even when it's difficult.

 

[BaronOfHair]

In all fairness, I prefaced my comment (about preferring an older woman because of pregnancy fears) with "I've been hesitant to mention this because I don't want this fear to become the main focus of the therapy"....

Avoiding heartbreak isn't why I'm into older women though. Fear of pregnancy is.

Start making this one of the primary focuses of your therapy then. Being the sort of client described here https://www.reddit.com/r/Hannibal/comments/ghri90 (“Frankly, I got sick and tired of his whining. Best thing* for him, really. Therapy wasn’t going anywhere. I expect most psychiatrists have a patient or two they’d like to refer to me" can be a fatal error


*"Best thing" in this case being https://hannibal.fandom.com/wiki/Benjamin_Raspail

 

[BaronOfHair]

As French philosopher Albert Camus once said, “those who lack the courage will often find a philosophy to justify it”.

Instead of some people confronting their fears or taking bold actions, they often create or adopt beliefs that excuse their lack of bravery. It is basically a coping mechanism where one avoids facing uncomfortable truths and challenging situations by masking their hesitations with illogical reasoning. It serves as a reminder of the importance of self-awareness and the courage to act, even when it's difficult.

As said earlier in this thread, this stuff is much simpler than we typically imagine, albeit not easy... All one has to do is consciously develop the capacity described here

, between 3:25-3:50

All that's missing among most folks today is the motivation to do so

 

[BaronOfHair]

At some point the therapist has to ensure his clients come back for more. Shutting down every idea as being nonsensical would make them leave.

Ideally, a skillful shrink and a man's social circle work in tandem. While the former digs deep into the thoughts, beliefs, and schemas which hinder him from achieving his objectives, his social circle provides earthy guidance like that which has been doled out earlier in this thread:



"Ah, the "I'll try to bias the audience first before asking the question in attempt to get the answer I want" trick.

You're going to do what you want.

You're just looking for others to justify your emotional decision.

And I keep reading "excuse excuse excuse" in your posts.

Yes I'm being intentionally hard on you, because I think you need it..."



"People's egos are far too fragile these days for the most part and they would do well to get more tough love who call them on their bull****!t from wherever it comes from instead of more enablers that they surround themselves with who allow them to continue along their path and encourage it"

"I also suspect tough love is more of what's needed in many of these cases"



"It's why I can viewed as a little harsh many times...I don't sugar coat stuff. Too many poople are mentally fragile and don't need more people allowing them to become even more fragile by enabling them. They need somebody to give them some harshness and reality.

Better a random Internet person than their own friends and family I suppose but it would be more effective coming from them"


Today, not just more men, but more PEOPLE need this sort of direction than at anytime in recent history. And although OP sounds like he's had the good fortune to snag a MALE shrink who's willing to be fairly blunt with him(Dude apparently re-iterated some of what was already said here at SS: Women aren't going to approach men... The onus is on him to select the location and time for dates), the mental health industry as a whole currently rejoices in being as namby pamby as possible

When we aren't receiving unsentimental straight talk in our shrink's office, it falls on consequential strangers https://www.npr.org/2009/09/07/112602248/the-importance-of-consequential-strangers to deliver that to us

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Guys who can "naturally" read social cues of any kind are less common than Baathists who didn't promptly join Al Qaeda in Iraq after the invasion, then go on to behead a journalist or 11. Damn near all of us have to research and practice this stuff

even men who don't have autism, can still risk or be perceived as weird, creepy or awkward around women which results in making women uncomfortable.

 

[BaronOfHair]

even men who don't have autism, can still risk or be perceived as weird, creepy or awkward around women which results in making women uncomfortable.

Back to a point made earlier in this thread: There's biological evidence indicating that the running joke "Just as most men are on the spectrum, most women are Borderline to some degree" has a grain of truth https://reason.com/2007/09/12/could-it-be-that-all-men-are-a/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/women-arent-built-9-5-heres-why-josie-blake-elhbc

All of us humans(regardless of gender) have got a decision to make:

-Become aware of the traits that make us unappealing, not just to
the opposite sex, but even people of your own gender, then replace those traits with more appealing

-Manufacture dunderheaded rationalizations for NOT doing so, and having lives which are perpetually static

 

[GoodMan32]

Start making this one of the primary focuses of your therapy then. Being the sort of client described here https://www.reddit.com/r/Hannibal/comments/ghri90 (“Frankly, I got sick and tired of his whining. Best thing* for him, really. Therapy wasn’t going anywhere. I expect most psychiatrists have a patient or two they’d like to refer to me" can be a fatal error


*"Best thing" in this case being https://hannibal.fandom.com/wiki/Benjamin_Raspail

• I sometimes have difficulty lasting long.
• The mere thought of asking a woman out gives me a panic attack.
• I'm basically illiterate at reading a woman's clues of interest.
• Other than one date in 2023, I haven't been on a date since 2018.
• Other than a one night stand in 2021, I haven't had free sex since 2015.
• My mom undermined my confidence with the girls in my younger days (so did my female classmates).

I have all sorts of larger issues I'm working on with my counselor. My fear of pregnancy is extremely low down on the priority list (my age preference is also extremely low down on the priority list).

Discussing my fear of pregnancy/my age preference with my counselor is meaningless until we work on all my other issues I listed.

 

[GoodMan32]

even men who don't have autism, can still risk or be perceived as weird, creepy or awkward around women which results in making women uncomfortable.

Right. But I revert to the analogy I've made before about Big Bang Theory.

For anyone who's watched that show, all the male main characters are socially awkward to some degree (some having more severe social awkwardness than others).

Leonard is an example of garden variety social awkwardness. Leonard (in the early days of the show when he was still pursuing girls) would sometimes mess up during the pursual phase. He would immediately catch himself, however (and then him and the girl would both be able to laugh it off). It's no surprise Leonard managed to snag Penny (a beautiful normal woman) on season 2.

Sheldon and Howard's social awkwardness, on the other hand, is way more severe than Leonard's. Even though the producers insist no one on that show is on the spectrum, I'm pretty sure Sheldon and Howard are on the spectrum. Before Howard gets with Bernadette, girls are genuinely creeped out by his pursuals. Unlike Leonard, Howard is too lacking in social awareness to even realize he's done anything wrong (as one example, Howard saw nothing wrong with chasing an attractive female jogger through the park).

Sheldon doesn't really pursue anyone (Even when he manages to start dating Amy, an extremely strange woman, that was only because his friends basically set the arrangement up for him). With social situations in general, however, the outside world is repulsed by Sheldon. Just like Howard, Sheldon lacks the social awareness to realize he's done anything wrong when he messes up socially.

 

[GoodMan32]

Back to a point made earlier in this thread: There's biological evidence indicating that the running joke "Just as most men are on the spectrum, most women are Borderline to some degree" has a grain of truth https://reason.com/2007/09/12/could-it-be-that-all-men-are-a/ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/women-arent-built-9-5-heres-why-josie-blake-elhbc

All of us humans(regardless of gender) have got a decision to make:

-Become aware of the traits that make us unappealing, not just to
the opposite sex, but even people of your own gender, then replace those traits with more appealing

-Manufacture dunderheaded rationalizations for NOT doing so, and having lives which are perpetually static

I've mentioned on SoSuave that I've had gay guys throw themselves at me. Obviously my own gender finds me appealing.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I've mentioned on SoSuave that I've had gay guys throw themselves at me. Obviously my own gender finds me appealing.

Perhaps it'd behoove you to start batting for the other side then. No need to fear pregnancy, when you're getting 6-10 inches shoved up your assh-le

 

[GoodMan32]

Perhaps it'd behoove you to start batting for the other side then. No need to fear pregnancy, when you're getting 6-10 inches shoved up your assh-le

Very funny. That's not the first time I've heard a gay joke in response to my pregnancy phobia.

As for the fact I get attention from gay guys, that's no surprise. As @SW15 has said before, most straight men would have an easier time getting laid if we went gay (because men are horndogs). That doesn't mean we should go gay.

I have no desire to bang another man. I've found a workaround to my pregnancy phobia: Older broads.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I've found a workaround to my pregnancy phobia: Older broads.

Continue pursuing them then. You and Aaron Taylor Johnson may be among the 2 out of every billion men who can make a union such as this work out

I'm throwing in the towel on this thread also, OP. This has gone from entertaining and occasionally fascinating, to downright ridiculous and infuriating... I strongly encourage you to spend less time watching The Big Bang Theory, and more listening to that audiobook I've linked at least twice in this now 16 page long thread. Listening, taking notes, and practicing all the strategies and techniques provided

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Right. But I revert to the analogy I've made before about Big Bang Theory.

For anyone who's watched that show, all the male main characters are socially awkward to some degree (some having more severe social awkwardness than others).

Leonard is an example of garden variety social awkwardness. Leonard (in the early days of the show when he was still pursuing girls) would sometimes mess up during the pursual phase. He would immediately catch himself, however (and then him and the girl would both be able to laugh it off). It's no surprise Leonard managed to snag Penny (a beautiful normal woman) on season 2.

Sheldon and Howard's social awkwardness, on the other hand, is way more severe than Leonard's. Even though the producers insist no one on that show is on the spectrum, I'm pretty sure Sheldon and Howard are on the spectrum. Before Howard gets with Bernadette, girls are genuinely creeped out by his pursuals. Unlike Leonard, Howard is too lacking in social awareness to even realize he's done anything wrong (as one example, Howard saw nothing wrong with chasing an attractive female jogger through the park).

Sheldon doesn't really pursue anyone (Even when he manages to start dating Amy, an extremely strange woman, that was only because his friends basically set the arrangement up for him). With social situations in general, however, the outside world is repulsed by Sheldon. Just like Howard, Sheldon lacks the social awareness to realize he's done anything wrong when he messes up socially.

yeah, even though some dating coaches for men say its the learning process, as in, its inevitable to have awkward interactions with women from approaching them that result in making women uncomfortable, as in, its part of the process of getting better.

 

[GoodMan32]

yeah, even though some dating coaches for men say its the learning process, as in, its inevitable to have awkward interactions with women from approaching them that result in making women uncomfortable, as in, its part of the process of getting better.

The Leonards of the world can learn from their awkward interactions.

The Howards of the world, on the other hand, are incapable of learning (because they have no idea what they did wrong in the first place)

 

[GoodMan32]

On a different online community I belong to, I got the following comment from a female member (without her even knowing I'm on the spectrum):

"If you're unable to read a woman's cues, chances are you're on the spectrum."

She then went on to say: "Whatever you do, don't escalate. Since you're unable to tell the difference between friendly and flirting, it isn't your place to take the lead. You'll have to let the woman take the lead."

What she's saying is unfortunate (because as has been said on SoSuave, as well as by my therapist, 85+% of the female population expects the man to take the lead)

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

The Leonards of the world can learn from their awkward interactions.

The Howards of the world, on the other hand, are incapable of learning (because they have no idea what they did wrong in the first place)

i figure the howard part describes people or men with autism, as in, they specifically or just literally don't know what they did wrong socially in their interactions, they don't want what it is they did wrong, they are not aware of their mistakes.