Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[SW15]

I remember at least one poster telling me a grave error on my part was that I didn't pick a venue. My therapist said the same thing (he said a woman likes a man with a plan).

I had no idea whatsoever that the man is supposed to do that.

Let that sink in: I made it to my 30s without learning that the man is supposed to pick the venue.

That's just one example to illustrate how lacking I am in my understanding of social norms.

I thought that even blue pilled beta males who never read seduction materials or participate in seduction forums knew that men were supposed to select a venue for an early stage date.

 

[BaronOfHair]

To give an example of my ASD getting in the way of keeping a woman, here's a thread about my most recent date:

I had my first date in ages. Here's the good and the bad.

This past Saturday, I had my first date in ages. Everything was going well. We chatted quite a bit on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday (She reached out to me first on all 3 of those days). On Monday, she even asked me about getting dinner again this coming weekend (I said yeah). Then on Tuesday, she...

www.sosuave.net

To give a cliffnotes summary of where I went wrong: The woman asked me, 2 days after our 1st date, "So where are we going on our 2nd date?"

Then on day 3, she asked the same question. In both cases, I told her we'd make a gameday decision.

I remember at least one poster telling me a grave error on my part was that I didn't pick a venue. My therapist said the same thing (he said a woman likes a man with a plan).

I had no idea whatsoever that the man is supposed to do that.

Let that sink in: I made it to my 30s without learning that the man is supposed to pick the venue.

That's just one example to illustrate how lacking I am in my understanding of social norms.

Now that you're aware of this, start altering your behavior accordingly, and resist the urge to ruminate on the fact that you didn't learn sooner. We're all constantly being made aware of things we were previously unaware of, and discovering that things we once believed to be cut and dry really are, in fact, more messy and complicated than we realized


You really aren't that special or different from the rest of us, OP

 

[GoodMan32]

I thought that even blue pilled beta males who never read seduction materials or participate in seduction forums knew that men were supposed to select a venue for an early stage date.

Well, my plan was sort-of to pick a venue.

First I rattled off a list of local places to eat (and confirmed the woman liked all the places).

When it turned out she liked all the places, I then told her we'd make a gameday decision (What I meant was I'd pick the venue. I just wasn't ready yet when she asked several days in advance. I was going to see what type of food I was in the mood for the day of the 2nd date, if the 2nd date happened, which it never did).

My therapist said if I wasn't ready to pick a place several days in advance, I should have told her "I picked a place. It's a surprise. You'll find out on Saturday"

 

[BaronOfHair]

I thought that even blue pilled beta males who never read seduction materials or participate in seduction forums knew that men were supposed to select a venue for an early stage date.

In the far-from-ancient past, we were discussing these subjects in sentences comprised of everyday language https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.so...05-women-are-hard-wired-to-want-dominant-men/ , instead of communicating like Manosphere refractions of The Woke Left, who's favorite past time = Bludgenoing the rest of humanity with blasted screeds overstuffed with jargon like "Structural Oppression" and "The Male Gaze"

It ain't surprising that OP is confused and ensnared in a pattern of intellectual masturbation

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Do men get pregnant? No.
Do men give birth? No.
Do men breastfeed? No.

Babies require care 24/7/365. Otherwise they die. Literally. For the mother the responsibility of a baby is far more mandatory/obligatory and pressing than it is for the father.

reminds me of a comment that added fuel to fire

 

[BaronOfHair]

My therapist said the same thing (he said a woman likes a man with a plan).

You've had the great fortune to snag a shrink along similar to the one described here https://www.elle.com/life-love/sex-...ale-psychologist-changed-the-therapy-game-me/ * I can't encourage you enough to heed the guidance he provides you, rather than doing what you've(mostly)been doing in this thread... Desperately manufacturing excuses to continue on as you have


*On a side note, let's marvel at the fact that as recently as '14, a magazine like Elle didn't hesitate to publish an article like that. How life has gone awry in a relatively short time

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

As was discussed in a separate thread https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...o-your-house-dates.282228/page-5#post-3121416 When men with troubles far more grave than autism (Such as psychopathy)have learned to modify their behavior enough to be charming company, there's no excuse for the rest of us being unable to do so

i assume there are men with worse disabilities with autism that have still been able to get results with women

 

[SW15]

i assume there are men with worse disabilities with autism that have still been able to get results with women

Men with disabilities in general tend to ignored and rejected by women.

 

[BaronOfHair]

i assume there are men with worse disabilities with autism that have still been able to get results with women

Sean Stephenson https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Stephenson has been regularly cited as an influence by everyone from David DeAngelo to Rich Cooper. So yeah, they can and do. Let's not forget: EVERYONE has disabilities of some kind. Our thoughts and beliefs about said "disabilities", and how we behave as a result, are of more importance than said "disabilities" themselves

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Sean Stephenson https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Stephenson has been regularly cited as an influence by everyone from David DeAngelo to Rich Cooper. So yeah, they can and do. Let's not forget: EVERYONE has disabilities of some kind. Our thoughts and beliefs about said "disabilities", and how we behave as a result, are of more importance than said "disabilities" themselves

yeah he's inspiring, i'm sure for all time, throughout history, women with disabilities have always had an easier time, or just, more often, more frequently, are able to get into a relationship than the other way around. I did kinda have a partner not that long ago, but i refuse to call her an ex-girlfriend because of her asexual personality, or because she had issues/problems with sex and physical intimacy.

Closest i ever had to a girlfriend was a woman i casually dated, non-committed, when i was 29 in 2017, we were not exclusive, it was more of a situationship.

 

[BaronOfHair]

i'm sure for all time, throughout history, women with disabilities have always had an easier time, or just, more often, more frequently, are able to get into a relationship than the other way around

https://fox17.com/news/ferrier-file...isability-stigma-zanies-comedy-club-tennessee If you're a guy who isn't afflicted with what Ms. Cauley has, you're free of a noticeable disadvantage. OP is blessed to only be pestered by autism(If that's really his difficulty), rather than something like Friedrich's ataxia

 

[GoodMan32]

https://fox17.com/news/ferrier-file...isability-stigma-zanies-comedy-club-tennessee If you're a guy who isn't afflicted with what Ms. Cauley has, you're free of a noticeable disadvantage. OP is blessed to only be pestered by autism(If that's really his difficulty), rather than something like Friedrich's ataxia

In addition to being on the spectrum, I've been told (but not by a professional) that I have agoraphobia (in other words, I avoid situations that could make me uncomfortable or embarrassed).

I'd say my ASD and my agoraphobia both contribute to my lady struggles. My ASD makes it hard for me to read a woman's clues. And even in the rare occassion I am able to pick up on clues, I still refrain from shooting my shot (Because I'd be humiliated, and feel like the world's biggest idiot, if I were to get turned down. And then there would be the uncomfortable aspect of having to run into her post-rejection. Again, agoraphobes avoid situations that could lead to us being uncomfortable)

 

[GoodMan32]

I have an update.

It was recommended to me (on SoSuave) that I inform my therapist about my phobia of pregnancy (to explain my preference for older women).

I informed him of my pregnancy phobia at yesterday's session. I followed with "That's why my ideal woman is 45 to early 50s. Young enough that I still find her attractive, yet old enough I don't fear pregnancy."

Next, I acknowledged that I'm aware pregnancy is technically possible in that age bracket.

My therapist's response? He said even though pregnancy is possible in that age bracket, the odds are 1 in a million. That was really all he had to say about my pregnancy phobia (and how it impacts my age preference). He never suggested I get over my phobia, nor did he suggest I focus on broads in my own age bracket.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I have an update.

It was recommended to me (on SoSuave) that I inform my therapist about my phobia of pregnancy (to explain my preference for older women).

I informed him of my pregnancy phobia at yesterday's session. I followed with "That's why my ideal woman is 45 to early 50s. Young enough that I still find her attractive, yet old enough I don't fear pregnancy."

Next, I acknowledged that I'm aware pregnancy is technically possible in that age bracket.

My therapist's response? He said even though pregnancy is possible in that age bracket, the odds are 1 in a million. That was really all he had to say about my pregnancy phobia (and how it impacts my age preference). He never suggested I get over my phobia, nor did he suggest I focus on broads in my own age bracket.

OP, today's older women are not the same as 30 years ago. 50 is indeed the new 40; lots of older women (a minority but a significant one) have good genes and have taken good care of themselves. Also, they tend to be more mature (obv), intelligent and sophisticated and may be more willing to look any neurodivergent issues. However, there is skin sag and they tend to be more manipulative and often there are insecurity and lowered sex-drive. The key for OP is identifying ones not only expressing interest but also ones with a sexual and confident vibe.

300 posts reaming OP about his preferences? FFS. People have different tastes and OP has a reasonable logical argument for his beyond mere proclivity. He's not banging his Mom and society has changed how they view older women - younger men relationships. If you haven't noticed this, you've got your head in the sand. That being said OP, it's still a good idea to keep your eye out for same-age and younger chicks who express interest.

The egoism on this board knows no bounds, as usual. Lmao.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Since that thread got locked, I wasn't able to reply.

Here's what I wanted to say: Psychopaths know their psychotic behavior is wrong. That's why they're able to modify their behavior when need be; they know what exactly needs to be modified.

On the other hand, with me, being on the spectrum means I'm unfamiliar with all sorts of social norms. There isn't necessarily one specific thing I do that drives a woman away in 100% of cases. The exact thing I do is probably different in every case.

With most of the women I've driven away, I don't even know what exactly I did to drive her away. My unfamiliarity with social norms could cause me to freak the woman out in all sorts of ways.

Exactly how is this different from 95% of guys?

Most "normal" guys have no idea either. And furthermore it's mostly irrelevant because even if you asked the woman to tell you she likely wouldn't or wouldn't be able to tell you exactly what it is.

It's usually a feeling or lack of feeling she has when she is with you. Ie, you don't make her feel the way she wants to feel when she is with a man.

What causes that, who knows. That's why you have to do it over and over again until you figure it out thru trial and error, then you slowly keep what works and throw away what doesn't in most situations.

You are trying to skip the entire process and just get to the end result and that's not the way it works.

Stop trying to avoid having to go thru the struggle and embrace the struggle because that will teach you a hell of a lot more than taking the easy road.

 

[GoodMan32]

OP, today's older women are not the same as 30 years ago. 50 is indeed the new 40; lots of older women (a minority but a significant one) have good genes and have taken good care of themselves. Also, they tend to be more mature (obv), intelligent and sophisticated and may be more willing to look any neurodivergent issues. However, there is skin sag and they tend to be more manipulative and often there are insecurity and lowered sex-drive. The key for OP is identifying ones not only expressing interest but also ones with a sexual and confident vibe.

300 posts reaming OP about his preferences? FFS. People have different tastes and OP has a reasonable logical argument for his beyond mere proclivity. He's not banging his Mom and society has changed how they view older women - younger men relationships. If you haven't noticed this, you've got your head in the sand. That being said OP, it's still a good idea to keep your eye out for same-age and younger chicks who express interest.

The egoism on this board knows no bounds, as usual. Lmao.

Well-said.

While I don't really have any memories of 30 years ago (I would have been only 3 years old 30 years ago), I have vivid memories of 20 years ago. 20 years ago (when I was 13), 50 year olds looked ancient/ugly. Part of that is because I was only 13. I'm convinced, however, that 50 year old women in 2024 really look better than 50 year old women in 2004 did.

A lot of 50 year old women today look like a slightly older version of their 30 year old selves; still plenty attractive.

Interesting hypothesis about older women possibly being more accepting of neurodivergence (if you're right, that's good news).

I was lucky enough to find a 45 year old woman with a through-the-roof sex drive back when I was 23 (in addition to her through-the-roof sex drive, she had a husband who refused to bang her, hence where I came in, pun intended).

To address your point about broads closer in age to me, I would consider a broad around my age...if she threw herself at me.

 

[GoodMan32]

Exactly how is this different from 95% of guys?

Most "normal" guys have no idea either. And furthermore it's mostly irrelevant because even if you asked the woman to tell you she likely wouldn't or wouldn't be able to tell you exactly what it is.

It's usually a feeling or lack of feeling she has when she is with you. Ie, you don't make her feel the way she wants to feel when she is with a man.

What causes that, who knows. That's why you have to do it over and over again until you figure it out thru trial and error, then you slowly keep what works and throw away what doesn't in most situations.

You are trying to skip the entire process and just get to the end result and that's not the way it works.

Stop trying to avoid having to go thru the struggle and embrace the struggle because that will teach you a hell of a lot more than taking the easy road.

You're right, the vast majority of men will typically have no idea what exactly they did wrong.

What puts men on the spectrum in a worse boat, however, is the fact our understanding of social norms is extremely lacking (compared to the average man). As a result, we're far more likely to end up in the position where the woman doesn't have the right feeling with us.

 

[GoodMan32]

Exactly how is this different from 95% of guys?

Most "normal" guys have no idea either. And furthermore it's mostly irrelevant because even if you asked the woman to tell you she likely wouldn't or wouldn't be able to tell you exactly what it is.

It's usually a feeling or lack of feeling she has when she is with you. Ie, you don't make her feel the way she wants to feel when she is with a man.

What causes that, who knows. That's why you have to do it over and over again until you figure it out thru trial and error, then you slowly keep what works and throw away what doesn't in most situations.

You are trying to skip the entire process and just get to the end result and that's not the way it works.

Stop trying to avoid having to go thru the struggle and embrace the struggle because that will teach you a hell of a lot more than taking the easy road.

To build upon my last post, here's an example.

With the last woman I went on a date with, I had no idea that I (the man) was supposed to pick the venue for our 2nd date (which ended up never happening). In retrospect, my failure to pick a venue likely played in a major role in why the woman lost interest in me.

I've since learned that the man is supposed to pick the venue. So that should help me in the future.

Here's where I'd still run into a problem: Another thing that turned off the woman I had my last date with was my failure to get a joke she made (a joke which every neurotypical I've shared the story with had no problem getting). The woman was really freaked out by my inability to get her joke.

Even if I learn certain social norms (like the man picking the venue), the inability to get certain jokes (no matter how obvious the joke might be to normies) is a feature of being on the spectrum.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

To build upon my last post, here's an example.

With the last woman I went on a date with, I had no idea that I (the man) was supposed to pick the venue for our 2nd date (which ended up never happening). In retrospect, my failure to pick a venue likely played in a major role in why the woman lost interest in me.

I've since learned that the man is supposed to pick the venue. So that should help me in the future.

Here's where I'd still run into a problem: Another thing that turned off the woman I had my last date with was my failure to get a joke she made (a joke which every neurotypical I've shared the story with had no problem getting). The woman was really freaked out by my inability to get her joke.

Even if I learn certain social norms (like the man picking the venue), the inability to get certain jokes (no matter how obvious the joke might be to normies) is a feature of being on the spectrum.

No bro...that was like the last straw that broke the camels back, not the actual reason.

 

[GoodMan32]

No bro...that was like the last straw that broke the camels back, not the actual reason.

I know. My refusal to pick a venue for our 2nd date (even after she asked me twice) was likely the main reason.

Ok, so let's say (hypothetically) I picked a venue, so the woman was willing to let the failure to get a joke slide. Even if I managed to get a 2nd date, I'd fail to understand more and more jokes as time went on. Eventually the woman would stop letting my inability to get jokes slide.