Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[corrector]

So you are saying that incels should consider themselves blessed for not having women interested in them?

I think I'm talking more about the feeling of being ripped-off and frustrated. The expectations tend to be more managed when you are used to not getting traction. Any interest is taken with a grain of salt (ie what does she want fro me).

 

[GoodMan32]

There is no benefit to you in disclosing. Over time, your spectrum behaviors will emerge and likely cause issues. However, if you can contain spectrum behaviors, you can get laid. You have gotten laid through conventional dating, so you are able to contain these behaviors to a degree.

For some reason, my therapist (who I'm no longer seeing) really wanted me to "come out of the closet" (so to speak) regarding the fact I'm on the spectrum.

I disagree with him. That's terrible advice (especially from a therapist)

 

[SW15]

For some reason, my therapist (who I'm no longer seeing) really wanted me to "come out of the closet" (so to speak) regarding the fact I'm on the spectrum.

I disagree with him. That's terrible advice (especially from a therapist)

Psychotherapists are usually beta males, heterosexual females, or lesbian females. Pickup artists understand what it's like out in the mating field far more than private practice psychotherapists.

In Psychology, a lot of academic research boards are comprised of career oriented females.

Myron and Rollo recently had a live stream about this....

 

[GoodMan32]

Psychotherapists are usually beta males, heterosexual females, or lesbian females. Pickup artists understand what it's like out in the mating field far more than private practice psychotherapists.

In Psychology, a lot of academic research boards are comprised of career oriented females.

Myron and Rollo recently had a live stream about this....

Good point.

My therapist's "logic" of why he thought I should come out of the closet with my ASD: He insists society is a lot more accepting of ASD now than we were a decade ago.

 

[SW15]

My therapist's "logic" of why he thought I should come out of the closet with my ASD: He insists society is a lot more accepting of ASD now than we were a decade ago.

That might be true in a non-sexual context. In the mating marketplace, it isn't true.

One basic principle of Psychology is Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Sexual intercourse is a basic human need. Not revealing ASD will help you get sex and satisfy a base physiological need, helping your overall psychological health.

I'm not sure why a PhD Psychologist can't make that connection.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

For some reason, my therapist (who I'm no longer seeing) really wanted me to "come out of the closet" (so to speak) regarding the fact I'm on the spectrum.

I disagree with him. That's terrible advice (especially from a therapist)

I have posted many times about the inability to get good relationship advice from traditional academics, whether therapists and or relationship counselors with PhD's (I have one myself....so trust me when I say academics are useless).

The same about 12 step programs. Therapy can be great for interpersonal growth...AA is fantastic if you want to stop drinking...it worked for me.

But these pursuits are HORRIBLE when it comes to increasing interest levels in women. Stick to the advice you get from forums like this one. There are some good posters here. Also, read the classic posts and the Hall of Fame material.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

That might be true in a non-sexual context. In the mating marketplace, it isn't true.

One basic principle of Psychology is Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Sexual intercourse is a basic human need. Not revealing ASD will help you get sex and satisfy a base physiological need, helping your overall psychological health.

I'm not sure why a PhD Psychologist can't make that connection.

It bears repeating: Psychologists think that communication is the key to relationships. They are wrong, wrong, wrong. It is whether or not the woman loves the man, operationalized as interest level. They also think that male and female brains are similar in design. This is a politically driven decision, not a scientific one.

Even after years of marriage, telling my wife that my mommy used to beat me and that my dad drank himself to death (actually mom did too) does not raise her interest in the slightest. I shared this stuff 6 years into my marriage and my wife became distant. I have shared this stuff in AA meetings, and with therapists. That is where it belongs. You need to unload it in the proper place. I don't talk about my mommy issues with my wife anymore and she is back in total love with me.

Women say they want to know your deepest darkest secrets. But it is the fact that they don't know that drives their invest level up. Once you tell them they lose interest.

BTW....big fan of Maslow.

 

[SW15]

Psychologists think that communication is the key to relationships. They are wrong, wrong, wrong.

I think communication has some value in romantic relationships. There are times where it can benefit the interaction. It isn't the key to relationships.

It is whether or not the woman loves the man, operationalized as interest level.

This is true.

In the seduction community, the concept of interest level is long standing. Doc Love used to mention interest level in his main book and his internet articles 2-3 decades ago.

A man's behavior affects a woman's interest level.

They also think that male and female brains are similar in design. This is a politically driven decision, not a scientific one.

This is true. Hard science disciplines like neurology have demonstrated the difference in brains.

Women say they want to know your deepest darkest secrets. But it is the fact that they don't know that drives their invest level up. Once you tell them they lose interest.

Another long discussed concept in seduction communities is the difference between what women say they want vs. what they actually respond to. In college, when I was first trying to re-construct myself after I realized my nice guy beta male upbringing was failing me, hearing this concept for the first time was extremely enlightening. High school and early college interactions were making more sense to me. A man needs to pay attention only to what women respond to in terms of their attraction.

BTW....big fan of Maslow.

When I first learned Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, it made sense to me. I liked where sexual intercourse was ranked on it as a base human needs. As a teenaged male with a strong sex drive, this was relatable.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

I think communication has some value in romantic relationships. There are times where it can benefit the interaction. It isn't the key to relationships.



This is true.

In the seduction community, the concept of interest level is long standing. Doc Love used to mention interest level in his main book and his internet articles 2-3 decades ago.

A man's behavior affects a woman's interest level.



This is true. Hard science disciplines like neurology have demonstrated the difference in brains.



Another long discussed concept in seduction communities is the difference between what women say they want vs. what they actually respond to. In college, when I was first trying to re-construct myself after I realized my nice guy beta male upbringing was failing me, hearing this concept for the first time was extremely enlightening. High school and early college interactions were making more sense to me. A man needs to pay attention only to what women respond to in terms of their attraction.



When I first learned Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, it made sense to me. I liked where sexual intercourse was ranked on it as a base human needs. As a teenaged male with a strong sex drive, this was relatable.

Doc Love was right about 80% of the time. However no way I was going to pay $200 (20 years ago) for his book, LOL. I did listen to his radio show. He died more than 10 years back BTW. There were other early guys in the seduction community that used the term interest level as well. I still use it. I think Woodhaven (Vin DiCarlo) did as well...his stuff had a pretty big influence me).

BTW, SW15 I am curious about you...don't mean to pry too much but I find you a very sharp guy. Your level of knowledge is impressive. In fact it is possible that you are too deeply immersed in theory. Do you think your way into good action, or act your way into good thinking? Would like to get you out with me and my partner (an excellent PUA) for some night game.

 

[SW15]

Doc Love was right about 80% of the time. However no way I was going to pay $200 (20 years ago) for his book, LOL. I did listen to his radio show. He died more than 10 years back BTW. There were other early guys in the seduction community that used the term interest level as well. I still use it. I think Woodhaven (Vin DiCarlo) did as well...his stuff had a pretty big influence me).

I didn't realize that Doc Love was charging $200 in the early 2000s for his book. I didn't buy his book but I read some of his internet articles. They were helpful in my early days of awakening.

He only died in 2020.

Do you think your way into good action, or act your way into good thinking?

I thought my way into good action. I was raised as a blue pilled, beta male nice guy. I was primarily raised by my mom as my dad wasn't around that much. They divorced when I was in high school. My father taught me nothing about interacting with the opposite sex.

I had poor experiences in high school. The first 2 years were a loss because that's when my growth spurt was happening. Around late sophomore year is when I hit 5'7"-5'8" and was at least minimally tall enough. That's when I first noticed that I was taller than most of the girls. The beginning of junior year is when I started to concentrate on meeting women. I was 5'8"-5'9". I topped out at 5'10" at the end of that year. Junior year was the first productive year of high school from a height perspective but I was still not doing as well on my approaching at school as I would have liked. I had personality problems stemming from being a nice guy. Those persisted throughout high school.

I arrive at college. I chose to go to "Hot Girl U" in part because of the seduction opportunities on campus. When freshman year wasn't going as well as I would like, I delved into internet articles and found Doc Love, David DeAngelo, and some others. That's when I started to think my way into good action with the knowledge base I was acquiring. Freshman year on campus is tougher than many would think. The upper class level females (sophomores - seniors) generally aren't interested in freshman males. Freshman females are in high demand from sophomore - senior males, graduate students, and general working age guys alongside other freshman males. I needed to make something happen and that's when re-construction started. It was a long process. As an early 40s male now, I considered all of college part of my process in learning seduction. I had made some good progress by junior and senior years.

 

[corrector]

That might be true in a non-sexual context. In the mating marketplace, it isn't true.

One basic principle of Psychology is Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Sexual intercourse is a basic human need. Not revealing ASD will help you get sex and satisfy a base physiological need, helping your overall psychological health.

I'm not sure why a PhD Psychologist can't make that connection.

He is seeing escorts so that makes that arguement moot in this case since he has got that base covered. If you start going with the needs assertion then that will wreck any inner game by making someone desperate and into a scarcity mind-set. After all, you can now dumpster-dive, deal with any woman who is available to you because it's a "need" right? Wonder how that will fly in court in a rape case.

Unless you wish to say that "seduction" is in that hierarchy of needs, then that is another story.

To date, @GoodMan32 has not "come out" and he still is relying mainly on escorts. The women that he did end up going with probably would not care one way or another (ie assuming they can speak fluent English and understand what those heavy psyc terms mean in the first place, they would be like "whatever" lets get to bed, lol!)

 

[Clockwerk50]

Women say they want to know your deepest darkest secrets. But it is the fact that they don't know that drives their invest level up. Once you tell them they lose interest.

People often have twisted desires, finding excitement in what is withheld or unattainable. Many people misjudge and give up too quickly, fearing that the other person will become disinterested or that giving them what they want will give the giver a sense of control. In reality, the opposite is true. Once you fulfill what the other person wants, you lose the initiative and risk them losing interest at the smallest provocation.

Hence the reason when women want a relationship and you give them one, they run for the hills.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

I didn't realize that Doc Love was charging $200 in the early 2000s for his book. I didn't buy his book but I read some of his internet articles. They were helpful in my early days of awakening.

He only died in 2020.



I thought my way into good action. I was raised as a blue pilled, beta male nice guy. I was primarily raised by my mom as my dad wasn't around that much. They divorced when I was in high school. My father taught me nothing about interacting with the opposite sex.

I had poor experiences in high school. The first 2 years were a loss because that's when my growth spurt was happening. Around late sophomore year is when I hit 5'7"-5'8" and was at least minimally tall enough. That's when I first noticed that I was taller than most of the girls. The beginning of junior year is when I started to concentrate on meeting women. I was 5'8"-5'9". I topped out at 5'10" at the end of that year. Junior year was the first productive year of high school from a height perspective but I was still not doing as well on my approaching at school as I would have liked. I had personality problems stemming from being a nice guy. Those persisted throughout high school.

I arrive at college. I chose to go to "Hot Girl U" in part because of the seduction opportunities on campus. When freshman year wasn't going as well as I would like, I delved into internet articles and found Doc Love, David DeAngelo, and some others. That's when I started to think my way into good action with the knowledge base I was acquiring. Freshman year on campus is tougher than many would think. The upper class level females (sophomores - seniors) generally aren't interested in freshman males. Freshman females are in high demand from sophomore - senior males, graduate students, and general working age guys alongside other freshman males. I needed to make something happen and that's when re-construction started. It was a long process. As an early 40s male now, I considered all of college part of my process in learning seduction. I had made some good progress by junior and senior years.

OK...so I tell people to do their research...to get a knowledge base. You clearly have done that, you seem to be extraordinarily knowledgeable. From there is into action (I think that was actually the name of an article by Pook). Are you opening women every day? Have you developed the sense of fearlessness regarding rejection? Are you weight training and eating right, perfecting your physique? Are you running a 3 woman rotation?

Also...and this is a topic for another forum...or at least sub forum, but you say you are over 40. Testosterone production peaks and starts to decline at 27. 40's are where a lot of guys see a significant decline and benefit greatly from TRT. Doing so can make you actually healthier.

Normal ranges are 300 to 1100. I advise people I work with to stay in the higher end of the range.

Are you doing any martial arts? You are still young enough to pick up BJJ.

I tried sending you a PM but could not. I guess I can just post it here. This is what I looked like 6 years ago at age 56: photo.php

Here is what I look like now on TRT only: photo.php

Let me know if you need any help with your bodybuilding goals.

 

[GoodMan32]

That might be true in a non-sexual context. In the mating marketplace, it isn't true.

One basic principle of Psychology is Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Sexual intercourse is a basic human need. Not revealing ASD will help you get sex and satisfy a base physiological need, helping your overall psychological health.

I'm not sure why a PhD Psychologist can't make that connection.

For what it's worth, my therapist admitted to owning a top-of-the-line fleshlight (which would suggest he himself struggles to get laid). I suppose that explains a lot.

The exact context of how the topic (of coming out of the closet with my ASD) came up: He said certain dating/hookup websites probably have an ASD support group. I told him I wouldn't want to follow an ASD support group because then any woman who viewed my profile would see that I belong to the ASD support group.

 

[GoodMan32]

I have posted many times about the inability to get good relationship advice from traditional academics, whether therapists and or relationship counselors with PhD's (I have one myself....so trust me when I say academics are useless).

The same about 12 step programs. Therapy can be great for interpersonal growth...AA is fantastic if you want to stop drinking...it worked for me.

But these pursuits are HORRIBLE when it comes to increasing interest levels in women. Stick to the advice you get from forums like this one. There are some good posters here. Also, read the classic posts and the Hall of Fame material.

Much like professors. Many professors got PhDs (and became professors) to avoid the real world.

 

[GoodMan32]

It bears repeating: Psychologists think that communication is the key to relationships. They are wrong, wrong, wrong. It is whether or not the woman loves the man, operationalized as interest level. They also think that male and female brains are similar in design. This is a politically driven decision, not a scientific one.

Even after years of marriage, telling my wife that my mommy used to beat me and that my dad drank himself to death (actually mom did too) does not raise her interest in the slightest. I shared this stuff 6 years into my marriage and my wife became distant. I have shared this stuff in AA meetings, and with therapists. That is where it belongs. You need to unload it in the proper place. I don't talk about my mommy issues with my wife anymore and she is back in total love with me.

Women say they want to know your deepest darkest secrets. But it is the fact that they don't know that drives their invest level up. Once you tell them they lose interest.

BTW....big fan of Maslow.

Hmm, in that case, perhaps it's a good thing I hide a lot of stuff from the ladies.

 

[SW15]

For what it's worth, my therapist admitted to owning a top-of-the-line fleshlight (which would suggest he himself struggles to get laid). I suppose that explains a lot.

A male psychologist is typically a beta male. He may be a married beta male in a dull relationship. If he's a never married or divorced beta male, he is likely struggling to get laid. It's not surprising for a male psychologist/psychotherapist to have a fleshlight and probably be a big time porn watcher.

Going to either a lesbian or heterosexual female psychologist/counselor isn't going to be any better. It could even be worse.

The exact context of how the topic (of coming out of the closet with my ASD) came up: He said certain dating/hookup websites probably have an ASD support group. I told him I wouldn't want to follow an ASD support group because then any woman who viewed my profile would see that I belong to the ASD support group.

Yes, you want to conceal ASD as much as you possibly can.

 

[GoodMan32]

I think communication has some value in romantic relationships. There are times where it can benefit the interaction. It isn't the key to relationships.



This is true.

In the seduction community, the concept of interest level is long standing. Doc Love used to mention interest level in his main book and his internet articles 2-3 decades ago.

A man's behavior affects a woman's interest level.



This is true. Hard science disciplines like neurology have demonstrated the difference in brains.



Another long discussed concept in seduction communities is the difference between what women say they want vs. what they actually respond to. In college, when I was first trying to re-construct myself after I realized my nice guy beta male upbringing was failing me, hearing this concept for the first time was extremely enlightening. High school and early college interactions were making more sense to me. A man needs to pay attention only to what women respond to in terms of their attraction.



When I first learned Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, it made sense to me. I liked where sexual intercourse was ranked on it as a base human needs. As a teenaged male with a strong sex drive, this was relatable.

One criticism I hear of the beta male nice guy is that he only pretends to be nice to get into a woman's pants.

A lot of alphas, on the other hand, don't even try to hide the fact they want her cooch...yet she'll have no qualms about dropping her panties for the alpha.

As for the hierarchy of needs, I agree sex is a need. I hate it when feminist broads insist it isn't a need.

 

[GoodMan32]

I can understand the 'coming out of the closet' when keeping it 'in the closet' would cause psychological harm (like closeted homosexuals), but while some people may be more understanding about Autism 'in general', romantically that revelation would put a damper on burgeoning relationships.
Women might consider an autistic man 'cute' but rarely 'sexually attractive. If they develop any feelings for autistic people, they would be more nurturing / caring / maternal, and not sexual.
Autism in relationships is a liability and, unlike addictions, there's no 12-step-program to cure autism.
In short, your therapist is a dunce.


I don't have a PhD, but I counsel people (mainly women) with C-PTSD. Most of them have seen therapists / psychologists / psychiatrists, but that didn't do them much good. Therapy isn't always the best way to deal with psychological problems, nor does the 'academic approach' work well if it's geared toward therapy.


Everything a man does affects a woman's interest levels. One of the things most men don't understand is that you shouldn't pursue low interest women and you shouldn't treat your lovers like you treat your (male) friends.

In most modern dating situations, I see how most men try to raise interest in a woman by investing more in the emotional connection, but it's the woman who should be investing more if you want to get the right dynamic for an LTR. We have a topic / theory about the ability to walk away, and the person who is the most invested in the relationship is the one sacrificing their ability to walk away. If you want a healthy relationship, you have to make sure the woman is more emotionally invested than you are.

Agreed, my therapist is a dunce. There's a reason I stopped wasting time/money on him.

Interestingly, an ex-girlfriend I dated during my early 20s used the word cute to describe me. The woman I had my last free sex with (a few months before my 30th birthday) also described me as cute, as did a much older neighbor in my building more recently.

I recall Raj on Big Bang Theory ran into a similar problem. He was tired of getting called cute; he wanted to be viewed as sexy.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Honestly, you can just put up a youtube search that "no guys show up to singles" (events) and you'll see a list of videos pile up like crazy. Here are a couple of them.

I initially found this from Better Bachelor and Phil Scott Show, but can't find the specific videos from their channels with that stats. It might be there under a different title. However, it is an extreme trend. Chances are, if the internet rumours are true, if you go to any single's mixer or event, you'll likely have a great sex ratio working in your favour.

It still begs the question. Guys are still not showing up to those events because they know they are wasting their time. Women have unrealistic expectations that only 5-10% of the male population can reach, and those guys have so many options already from dating apps or elsewhere that why would they bother going to such an event when they can get women throwing themselves at them online and coming straight to their home? For guys that are struggling, the women already gut punched them with their bad behaviour, ghosting, flaking, throwing themselves on Chad but making them jump through endless hoops, etc.... Why would they bother showing up for more of the same?

Guys are not avoiding women. They don't feel these women want them in the first place so there is no point trying.

Only people like you believe this nonsense.