Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[Fruitbat]

Ok. Fair enough. In that case, I guess I'm in the same boat as the typical man (where I have to fail a lot online before I finally succeed). That being said, the fact still remains that I've had better luck online than I've had with making a move in person (which isn't saying much)

the world changed 2010-2015. Apps are the places a lot of people go, after that it’s work and friends.

By in-person are you envisaging the chance encounter on the street? The enraptured damsel who meets your gaze and is irresistibly drawn to you?

id done marginally better than you at your age but that was down to 1/ being a DJ in my early 20s and 2/ the fairly good number of one night stands from clubbing, holidays and just generally being drunk and/or meeting drunk women.

it’s a bit like the animals at the watering hole. Go where the girls looking for “it” go. Apps are where they go, bars and clubs is where they go. Other than that it’s social circle, social clubs, church (for you Americans, the only people who go to church in UK are devout bible bashers who would want marriage first!) and work.
Usually in the work/social group you have to be pretty sure before asking but that’s cool, as women make it super easy for you and make it obvious usually if they want your time and attention. There’s no ambiguity when a woman wants to date you, they are either super chatty or act embarrassed yet very friendly. Either is easy to pick.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

I've had 9 free sex partners. That being said, the "make a move on a woman in person; get laid" strategy has never gotten me laid.

Of my 9 free partners,

• 7 came from hookup websites.
• 2 just sort of happened (with neither of us making the move).

I've also been on dates with 8 different gals. There's very little overlap between my dates and my intercourse (7 of the 8 gals I've had dates with were sexless).

The "make a move in person; get a date" strategy has only worked on one girl (Back when I was in college. And she was extremely strange. I had to break it off shortly into our relationship. Also, it's worth mentioning: She's one of my many sexless dates).

The rest of my dates came from the following strategies:

• Dating/hookup websites.
• The woman making the move on me.
• The date sort of just happened (with neither of us making the move).

So here's my question: Since making a move in person has given me a 0% success rate at getting laid (and only a minimal success rate at getting a date, with a girl I ended up regretting anyway), is it even worth it for me to try with in-person approaches? Or should I stick with methods that have given me more success (Dating/hookup websites. Waiting for the woman to approach me. Allowing it to just sort of happen, with neither of us making the move)?

One more thing I should mention on my OP: I know many of you are aware of my escort habit. I'm going to request everyone refrain from turning this into an escort thread. This thread isn't about escorts; it's about my successes/failures at getting a free woman (and how to maximize the odds of getting a free woman)

I have not read all the posts on this thread. This is my first post on this forum, although I used to read it very often many years ago when I was developing my own system for seduction, romance, dating, and eventually marriage. I Have been happily married for 18 years. Before that I was a very successful dater managing a 3 woman rotation (they call them plates here on this forum). During that time I was very active on the old MASF and actually knew many of the old PUA's going back to the guys in the (now old) book by Neil Strauss.

Before that I had a period where I was unsuccessful with women.

Going from a lack of success to to success took a long time of hard work, discipline, and development of my game. The reason I am posting is that the same can happen for you. Take seduction seriously. Thake the game seriously. Prepare yourself for periods of failure in order to eventually become successful with women.

You can do it if you are willing to do the work, develop the mindset, and the skills.

Start by reading the top material here on this forum, starting with an old poster known as Pook, and then maybe Anti Dump.

Good luck!

 

[Dr_jitsu]

There is so much to unpack here but the problem, once again as is so often is that people think "if I do X then Y HAS to occur". No it doesn't.

There are so many nuances, so many variables that just because you do X, doesn't mean that Y is going to happen regardless.

I think the issue is you want some "fail proof way" of doing it when that doesn't exist and never has and never will.

It's ALL trial and error, trying something and failing, making adjustments and then trying something else.

It's mind boggling that people think this is somehow different than anything else in life.

When you first started riding a bike as a kid, did things go exactly to plan the first time you did it? What about the second, the third, the fiftieth?

Did you just throw your hands up and say, oh well I guess I will give up. Most likely no. You kept at it and kept at it and figured out how to do it and became good at it.

So if you could do that as a little kid and you knew the best way to improve at something is to keep working at and working at it, why are adults unable to simply get out of their own way with their negativity, self doubt and terrible self talk that basically ensures they will never improve and just give up?

I don't get it. Never have, Never will. People are their own worst enemies.

The answer is OP, you need to fail more.

The people who have become successful at this have failed 10 times more than you have even attempted. Minimum. Probably more like 50 or 100 times more.

They didn't care. They got back up and tried again.

So honestly unless you are wanting to change your mindset from having a loser mentality to having a winner mentality, then it's probably not worth it.

Precisely. You need to start at the beginning, which is getting good at opening women. There is lots of material dedicated to this topic, use both natural and canned game. We always want to eventually become naturals, but use canned game until you develop your natural abilities.

Set out to open a woman a day every day. That is 30 women a month. Accept failure...you may number close only 7-8 out of those 30, and date close only 2-3 out of those 7-8 and maybe only get 1 second date. That is OK, it is a process. Each failure moves you closer to success.

Eventually, you will get better. Your number/date/kiss/sex closes will get better over time. I always say "Date like a Samurai." You are going to fall on your sword a lot. So what?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I always say "Date like a Samurai." You are going to fall on your sword a lot. So what?

This is hilarious. Can you elaborate?

 

[corrector]

I have not read all the posts on this thread. This is my first post on this forum, although I used to read it very often many years ago when I was developing my own system for seduction, romance, dating, and eventually marriage. I Have been happily married for 18 years. Before that I was a very successful dater managing a 3 woman rotation (they call them plates here on this forum). During that time I was very active on the old MASF and actually knew many of the old PUA's going back to the guys in the (now old) book by Neil Strauss.

Before that I had a period where I was unsuccessful with women.

Going from a lack of success to to success took a long time of hard work, discipline, and development of my game. The reason I am posting is that the same can happen for you. Take seduction seriously. Thake the game seriously. Prepare yourself for periods of failure in order to eventually become successful with women.

You can do it if you are willing to do the work, develop the mindset, and the skills.

Start by reading the top material here on this forum, starting with an old poster known as Pook, and then maybe Anti Dump.

Good luck!

The world changed allot in the past 18 years.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

The world changed allot in the past 18 years.

It has. Dating and male/female relationships have gotten worse. In fact they are the worst is human history. Cave men had it better. A big driver of the problem is technology. Our culture is also terrible and has declared war on men, especially young men who want to start families

However human beings have not changed. Over 190k years we evolved to be the way we are and except for the ability to process dairy and grains humans have not changed. For example, the female brain is still white matter/process oriented. The male brain is Grey matter, what I call problem solution oriented. If you understand the female brain and how to drive interest levels up in women you can still be successful in dating. It is just harder and there are more minefields. You have to have a system. You can develop a system by examining all the top posts and posters here on this forum.

It requires work, discipline, and the right mindset. I am old, long married, and not that good looking anymore at the age of 62....but I still open (start conversations) with women all the time. If I were 20 years older (before I was married, my wife is beautiful and much younger than me...she still gets carded when we go out) I would still be dating and running a 3 woman rotation.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

This is hilarious. Can you elaborate?

Sure. The Samurai was fearless, was not deterred by the Spector of failure/death. You must approach dating the same way. You are going to open lots of women...cold approach, get a convo going and then try and number close. When you are new you are going to fail more than succeed. From those numbers you will try and date close...lets say you get 9 numbers, you may only get 3 dates. Of those 3 you may only kiss close 1.

So by one measure you have failed 29 times out of 30 if you count the kiss as success. Dating like a Samurai means you are not deterred by these failures, in fact they were all part of the process leading to success. Now as you practice, as you open more, close more, your numbers will improve. You also spend time studying the top posters on this board. 20 years ago while developing my own system I read heavily from this board. I like Pook, but there are many, many others.

This understanding is critical for the OP. He must roll up his sleeves. Study, implement, practice, fail, but ultimately there will be success if he sticks with the process.

 

[GoodMan32]

I can't think of a better phrase for a man to decrease a chick's desire than to say that he is "on the spectrum".

Well-said (that's why I refuse to disclose).

Yeah, I'm aware the woman might lose interest upon getting to know me (when my spectrum mannerisms inevitably come out, even if I never officially inform her I'm on the spectrum).

That being said, informing her right off the bat is a surefire way to decrease her desire (as you pointed out)

 

[GoodMan32]

It would be a bad idea to say it. Nevertheless, the inevitable behavior would eventually turn off a woman. Women operate on feelings and there are likely spectrum behaviors that would not give them the good feelings they need to feel attraction.

What you're saying is true.

The fact I've had some degree of success with the ladies using the strategy I've been using (refusing to disclose I'm on the spectrum) suggests my strategy (of refusing to disclose), however, is at least better than the alternative (disclosing)

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Well-said (that's why I refuse to disclose).

Yeah, I'm aware the woman might lose interest upon getting to know me (when my spectrum mannerisms inevitably come out, even if I never officially inform her I'm on the spectrum).

That being said, informing her right off the bat is a surefire way to decrease her desire (as you pointed out)

Also, why would you mention that you're on the spectrum? You might not even know that something like 'on the spectrum' exists. I'm sure there are quite a lot of people totally unaware of being on the spectrum.

 

[GoodMan32]

the world changed 2010-2015. Apps are the places a lot of people go, after that it’s work and friends.

By in-person are you envisaging the chance encounter on the street? The enraptured damsel who meets your gaze and is irresistibly drawn to you?

id done marginally better than you at your age but that was down to 1/ being a DJ in my early 20s and 2/ the fairly good number of one night stands from clubbing, holidays and just generally being drunk and/or meeting drunk women.

it’s a bit like the animals at the watering hole. Go where the girls looking for “it” go. Apps are where they go, bars and clubs is where they go. Other than that it’s social circle, social clubs, church (for you Americans, the only people who go to church in UK are devout bible bashers who would want marriage first!) and work.
Usually in the work/social group you have to be pretty sure before asking but that’s cool, as women make it super easy for you and make it obvious usually if they want your time and attention. There’s no ambiguity when a woman wants to date you, they are either super chatty or act embarrassed yet very friendly. Either is easy to pick.

Both chance encounters on the street as well as expressing interest in a woman I've gotten to know.

 

[GoodMan32]

It has. Dating and male/female relationships have gotten worse. In fact they are the worst is human history. Cave men had it better. A big driver of the problem is technology. Our culture is also terrible and has declared war on men, especially young men who want to start families

However human beings have not changed. Over 190k years we evolved to be the way we are and except for the ability to process dairy and grains humans have not changed. For example, the female brain is still white matter/process oriented. The male brain is Grey matter, what I call problem solution oriented. If you understand the female brain and how to drive interest levels up in women you can still be successful in dating. It is just harder and there are more minefields. You have to have a system. You can develop a system by examining all the top posts and posters here on this forum.

It requires work, discipline, and the right mindset. I am old, long married, and not that good looking anymore at the age of 62....but I still open (start conversations) with women all the time. If I were 20 years older (before I was married, my wife is beautiful and much younger than me...she still gets carded when we go out) I would still be dating and running a 3 woman rotation.

There's a war on young men who want casual sex too.

The Family Guy episode where a crowd of radical feminists chanted "all sex is rape" is (sadly) becoming closer and closer to a reality (a lot of young new age feminists seriously hold the "all sex is rape" mentality)

 

[corrector]

There's a war on young men who want casual sex too.

The Family Guy episode where a crowd of radical feminists chanted "all sex is rape" is (sadly) becoming closer and closer to a reality (a lot of young new age feminists seriously hold the "all sex is rape" mentality)

The pendulum is going in the opposite direction now as more and more guys are disengaging (MTGOW/going with AI gfs/dolls, escortcelling (like you are), and there are only so many chad/chadlites to go around. Women are complaining that only 10% of guys are showing up to some of their venues. With 68% single guys, who don't want to engage at all in women, if they keep that sh1t up, then it will hit a critical mass, result in Japan level or worst depopulation and they can chant "all sex is rape" in their dystopian wasteland when the whole country is reduced to total economic and structual chaos as the population crashes and less guys are willing to do the hard work to keep things functional. It will be a part of the shameful past in the chronology of the downfall of Western Civilization.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

There's a war on young men who want casual sex too.

The Family Guy episode where a crowd of radical feminists chanted "all sex is rape" is (sadly) becoming closer and closer to a reality (a lot of young new age feminists seriously hold the "all sex is rape" mentality)

Much worse things have been said by other feminists. One claimed that all marriage is rape.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

The pendulum is going in the opposite direction now as more and more guys are disengaging (MTGOW/going with AI gfs/dolls, escortcelling (like you are), and there are only so many chad/chadlites to go around. Women are complaining that only 10% of guys are showing up to some of their venues. With 68% single guys, who don't want to engage at all in women, if they keep that sh1t up, then it will hit a critical mass, result in Japan level or worst depopulation and they can chant "all sex is rape" in their dystopian wasteland when the whole country is reduced to total economic and structual chaos as the population crashes and less guys are willing to do the hard work to keep things functional. It will be a part of the shameful past in the chronology of the downfall of Western Civilization.

WE are already seeing a dearth of young people here in America. We need a larger supply or else our civilization will be at risk.

 

[Travel memoir21]

Regarding the Topic man.....I don't think some dudes should be trying at all. If you're a Muslim Man or an Asian dude living in certain parts of America, you should just go pair up with your culture and community and go from there. Go back fishing in your homeland and take it from there.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

There's a war on young men who want casual sex too.

A war? So we can... shoot em?

 

[Dr_jitsu]

A war? So we can... shoot em?

No...but we must have a system and tactics to even a very uneven playing field. I developed a system. This forum enables its members to develop a system.

 

[corrector]

Well-said (that's why I refuse to disclose).

Yeah, I'm aware the woman might lose interest upon getting to know me (when my spectrum mannerisms inevitably come out, even if I never officially inform her I'm on the spectrum).

That being said, informing her right off the bat is a surefire way to decrease her desire (as you pointed out)

The problem though, is everytime you are posting your "spectrum mannerisms" other people are saying that your behaviour is actually normal but are dealing with low-interest women. You have better quality interactions with women than I do and I'm not on the spectrum and you are at least dealing with escorts (ie which means your "spectrum" is not too bad to put them off from dealing with you even as a client, etc...).

You realize that other posters are not buying the spectrum argument and it is a controversial position since you do have positive interactions with women and have mixed results.

Now, I get it. Getting a high-IL is a tall order. For one, you might not like her, so you don't get a catalogue of high-IL to choose from on demand (ie which is why escortcelling can spoil you). You don't have the time to make allot of cold-approaches. Some posters, like @Bingo-Player, think you have to make ALLOT of approaches to get a high-IL women, like I think he mentioned 3-5% HIGH-IL return out of 100 approaches? You also have other posters who have made approach upon approach and failed.

We both have the same issues, we don't have the time, energy or resources to make allot of approaches in order to find HIGH-IL women who won't flake on you or ghost you like that. However, that is more constructive to own up to that rather than to worry about some MEDIUM/LOW-IL woman that didn't work out, and likely wouldn't work out if someone who did not have any "spectrum" issues dealt with her either.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

No...but we must have a system and tactics to even a very uneven playing field. I developed a system. This forum enables its members to develop a system.

To shoot em?