Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

[Hamurabimbi]

You think @GoodMan32 IOIs are ambigious compared to yours? (ie he said a female customer rubbed his back at work, said another co-worker was "handsy" with him, or another co-worker drew a sketch of him, etc....) That sounds unambiguous to me.

Well. Just different then.

 

[corrector]

Well. Just different then.

Exactly... @GoodMan32 you just got a solid greenlight here from someone who does this at his workplace. You are missing out dude if you create barriers for yourself that are not real.

 

[SW15]

The gynocentric social order in Western nations does give older men a rough time for dating substantially younger women.

Yet another Red Pill canard that collapses under mild scrutiny: Kat McPhee is married to/having babies with a man in his 70s, and 30something Lizzy Winstead and Alexandra Daddario are doing likewise with guys in their 50s. The public at large at worst has a little giggle over this, then wishes them all well. By contrast, pair-ups like Aaron and Sam Taylor Johnson or Olivia Wilde and Harry Styles are openly reviled

If OP thinks he won't be subject to these same social dynamics, when not even our glitterati could escape them, he's in for a rude awakening

Most social circles have a blue pill ideology towards relationships. The majority of people are also with someone close to their own age. Men do get a little bit of a rough time for going 10+ years younger in social circles.

I do think men get a worse time for getting with a woman 10+ years older though.

At 41 right now, the ideal girlfriend for me is 21-26. That would be the age range of a potential girlfriend that would interest me the most.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Most social circles have a blue pill ideology towards relationships

Let's stop pretending that statements like that aren't just as meaningless as sentences overloaded with corporate buzzwords

The 2010s are over



"I do think men get a worse time for getting with a woman 10+ years older though"

Exactly. Thus it behooves OP to adjust to the mores of society, and pursue women his age or younger

 

[SW15]

Thus it behooves OP to adjust to the mores of society, and pursue women his age or younger

I am a man who prefers younger women and would most prefer substantially younger women (10-20 years years younger).

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Exactly. Thus it behooves OP to adjust to the mores of society, and pursue women his age or younger

And/Or stop asking advice about picking up cougars when everybody is experienced with kittens.

 

[BaronOfHair]

And/Or stop asking advice about picking up cougars when everybody is experienced with kittens.

Yeah, I mentioned earlier on this thread that most men have had a romp or brief fling with a real-life Mrs Robinson, at some point in our TEENS. That sh-t ain't cool once a man is 25 or older though

 

[GoodMan32]

Yeah, there would have, thus she didn't do so. Same way Olivia Wilde didn't run around with Drake or Josh back in the late 2000s-early 10s, when she was just on the rise




And we all want to see you succeed, GM, thus we're frustrated to no end when you "That being said..."every last ounce of (extremely sage)counsel you're provided here. Stop making excuses, and start replacing your self-defeating behaviors with adaptative ones, TODAY. Because tomorrow ain't promised for any of us. Ask Anton Yelchin, next time you attend a seance. You're spending an ungodly amount of time and effort fantasizing about bedding a demographic of women who, by and large, have no desire to pair up with men young enough to be their sons. Despite being surrounded by a sea of beauties who are at the peak of their desirability, and eager for a real-life Christian Gray to carry them off to The Red Room




The onus is on you to come in with a subject to work on, hoss. You're going to spend therapy nibbling around the edges of your troubles(I.E. Not getting to the good stuff until the end of every session, when there's no time to dig deep into it), if you expect any shrink to miracously heal you, without meeting them halfway

I've already mentioned on this forum that a 45 year old woman isn't exactly in mom territory for me (I'm 33).

I admit a decent chunk of my preferred age demographic (45 through 60s) is in mom territory. The younger end of that demographic isn't, however.

As for therapy, needless to say, I have lots of issues to work on. The therapist spent most of the session building on issues I had mentioned during previous sessions. That's how our sessions typically go (he builds on issues I mentioned during the last session). I'm confident he really will do what he said during our next session (build on the topic I mentioned during the final 10 minutes of the latest session)

 

[GoodMan32]

Hard to say, would need more information about your relationship with this woman. It could be that you are her friend/good friend and this might be a friendzone. The comment itself is interesting but I wouldn't necessarily interpret it to mean she is expecting me to ask her out. 50/50 at best. However, it is a good quality of friendship for her to disclose that with you, even if you don't make a move.




This is 100%...she started a discussion with you. What more of an obvious hint do you need there?



This is again another 100% because she is touching you like that. You can even remember this to write it down?
See you don't have to use the excuse of being on spectrum not to see interest there.

Did you rub her back too? Would she let you hug her like a doll or pull her hair? How far could you go with her?



That does not mean anything.



Very hard to read this one....very 50/50.



This could be a hint.



This is like 100% -- obviously you can act handsy on her too....where would she let you touch?



May not mean anything.




Very strong interest...she took the time to draw that picture and made that question. You would have to be blind to even question that.

Come to think of it, none of the free sex I've had has come from me making a move (not even the free sex I got from hookup websites).

Of my 9 free partners, 6 came from craigslist (And they messaged me about an ad I posted. I'd say that counts as the woman making the move).

1 messaged me on a site called datehookup

2 just sort of happened (with neither of us really making the move)

As for dates, after thinking on it, I haven't made a move that led to a date since I was 21 (Which ultimately led to the relationship with the 8 monther I mentioned). That was on POF. The last time I made a move in person that led to a date, I was 20. In other words, even with getting a mere date, it's been over a decade since I've made a move that led to a date.

The few dates I've had since then have come from either the woman making the move or (in one case) the date just sort of happened.

Additionally, when I was in college, a girl from my major wanted my assistance on an assignment in our departmental computer lab. Rather than having me pull up a chair, she scooted over in her chair (and had me share the seat with her). Sounds like a pretty sure sign she was into me, right? Wrong. I found out the hard way she wasn't into me. I then felt like the world's biggest idiot every time I ran into her from that point on (luckily I only had a year of college left at that point). I was so glad to graduate college (and never have to run into her again).

Ever since the computer lab story, I've really started 2nd guessing myself about a woman's clues. I never want to end up in the position again where I have the idiot feeling of misperceiving a woman's clues (and imagining interest where none exists).

The computer lab story got me to learn: No matter how obvious a woman's clues might seem, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Plus, seeing as I've made it to 33 without ever making a move that led to free sex, I'm at a loss of what to do about a woman's clues even if the woman really is into me

 

[GoodMan32]

Hard to say, would need more information about your relationship with this woman. It could be that you are her friend/good friend and this might be a friendzone. The comment itself is interesting but I wouldn't necessarily interpret it to mean she is expecting me to ask her out. 50/50 at best. However, it is a good quality of friendship for her to disclose that with you, even if you don't make a move.




This is 100%...she started a discussion with you. What more of an obvious hint do you need there?



This is again another 100% because she is touching you like that. You can even remember this to write it down?
See you don't have to use the excuse of being on spectrum not to see interest there.

Did you rub her back too? Would she let you hug her like a doll or pull her hair? How far could you go with her?



That does not mean anything.



Very hard to read this one....very 50/50.



This could be a hint.



This is like 100% -- obviously you can act handsy on her too....where would she let you touch?



May not mean anything.




Very strong interest...she took the time to draw that picture and made that question. You would have to be blind to even question that.

Now to address your post.

It's interesting how depending on who you share a story with, you'll get different feedback. You're saying the gym story is a 100% sign the woman was into me. My therapist, on the other hand, said the woman might have been trying to trap me into checking out her backside (therapist told me I fell for the bait).

As for the handsy customer, I'd say that one could go either way. Back when Joe Biden was VP, I remember a picture circulated of him acting handsy with Barack Obama. Does that mean Joe wants to bed Barack? Of course not. All it means is Joe is a handsy guy. Some people are simply handsy. Too risky if another customer (or a coworker) who didn't understand what was happening were to see (it could end badly for me).

Same goes for the handsy coworker. Her handsiness was mild anyway (stuff like giving me a light pat on the back after I helped her with some training).

Another example of how everyone has different feedback: You're saying the customer commenting on/asking about my accent doesn't mean anything. Yet one of my bosses (he saw/heard the whole thing) told me I should have exchanged numbers with her.

Even if all of my examples were 100% signs the woman were into me, however, we run into another problem: There's still no telling what exactly the woman wants me to do about her clues. Perhaps she's looking for a date. Perhaps she's looking to go straight to casual sex. Perhaps the woman simply finds me attractive (yet doesn't plan on doing anything with me).

 

[GoodMan32]

What is wrong with you? You have some amazing IOI's from your co-workers and yet you have a policy of not crapping where you eat.
You have clear niche interest through work and if you didn't put up mental barriers you could be successful on here like @Hamurabimbi who actually does get action through work and never gets into any trouble with it.

I don't have great experiences or IOIs like you do. You are now coming across like a type of quiet bragger.

What type of traction do I get at work? At best I might get a breadcrumb here or there from a taken girl on the team, or a crystal friendship bracelet from a fat married woman that I have no romantic interest in......just barely enough to not consistently log-into ASMR video fantasies because real life sucks like crap with it comes to women. You on the other hand HAVE NO EXCUSE.

Can we trade places? I would love to get the IOIs and attention you are getting so I could actually make moves with the women there at work and not see opportunities wasted down the toilet like that. Not to crap where you work, only goes so far in my books....I'm sorry.

I did an analysis of every single thing you brought up and offered my opinion. Come on @GoodMan32. What is wrong with you?

As awesome as my workplace IOIs might sound to you, my IOIs are nothing compared to @Hamurabimbi.

If a female coworker did anything as obvious as wiggling her backside my desk while asking if I need a sexcretary, I would know that's a 100% sign the female coworker wants sex.

A female coworker offering a BJ, that one's self-explanatory. Even a man much further on the spectrum than me would be able to read that clue.

For me to do anything with a coworker, they would need to be as obvious as the broads @Hamurabimbi has worked with.

 

[GoodMan32]

Most social circles have a blue pill ideology towards relationships. The majority of people are also with someone close to their own age. Men do get a little bit of a rough time for going 10+ years younger in social circles.

I do think men get a worse time for getting with a woman 10+ years older though.

At 41 right now, the ideal girlfriend for me is 21-26. That would be the age range of a potential girlfriend that would interest me the most.

Interesting story about the age gap thing.

That Chad VP at my workplace I've told you about knows I had a date last summer that ended badly. He was asking me yesterday about whether I've run into her since our date. So I told him I've run into her twice since then (and she didn't acknowledge me either time).

He said if she's that rude, it sounds like I dodged a bullet by having us fizzle out before getting overly invested in her.

I then told him "She's younger than I prefer anyway."

He said "Oh really, she's younger than you?"

I replied "Older than me. But younger than I'd prefer"

 

[GoodMan32]

Let's stop pretending that statements like that aren't just as meaningless as sentences overloaded with corporate buzzwords

The 2010s are over



"I do think men get a worse time for getting with a woman 10+ years older though"

Exactly. Thus it behooves OP to adjust to the mores of society, and pursue women his age or younger

Of my 9 free partners, 6 were born from the 1950s-70s (I myself was born in the 90s).

The fact I, a man on the spectrum who's never even directly made a move that led to free sex (I have a "let the woman come to me" approach), has managed to bed 6 significantly older women for free would suggest the older woman thing really isn't as much of a hurdle as some of the posters make it out to be.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I've already mentioned on this forum that a 45 year old woman isn't exactly in mom territory for me (I'm 33).

I admit a decent chunk of my preferred age demographic (45 through 60s) is in mom territory. The younger end of that demographic isn't, however.

Now occurs to me that none of us have inquired: Are you sexually attracted to women your age and younger? Are you aroused by footage like

Or is your knee-jerk reaction upon seeing such sights: "Man, I can't help but imagine how great Judy Dench would look in those outfits?" Not even being facetious here, GM

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Not even being facetious here, GM

Not at all.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Not at all.

I am being completely serious. We've yet to ask OP if he's even aroused by and desirous of beautiful young women

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I am being completely serious. We've yet to ask OP if he's even aroused by and desirous of beautiful young women

He's probably intimidated by dealing with young women and just aching for a pair of maternal arms around him.

 

[GoodMan32]

Now occurs to me that none of us have inquired: Are you sexually attracted to women your age and younger? Are you aroused by footage like

Or is your knee-jerk reaction upon seeing such sights: "Man, I can't help but imagine how great Judy Dench would look in those outfits?" Not even being facetious here, GM

Very funny with the Judi Dench joke. She's 89. That's old enough to be the mom of my preferred age group (45 through 60s). She could even be the grandma of a 45 year old.

To answer your question, yeah, I'm sexually attracted to the models you shared. I have been with my own age group (and younger) for dates/sex.

Speaking of age, I had an interesting experience this morning. I had a laser hair removal appointment. The technician is close in age to me. She was talking about music. Turns out we like a lot of the same music. At that point, it occurred to me we have the most in common with our own age group (which is likely why most couplings tend to be close in age)

 

[GoodMan32]

I am being completely serious. We've yet to ask OP if he's even aroused by and desirous of beautiful young women

I'm definitely aroused by young women. I've thought about many a young woman while pleasuring myself, as well as checked out many a young woman (and as I mentioned on my last post, I've been with young women before for dates/sex).

That doesn't mean I'm ever going to go for a young woman again, however.

 

[GoodMan32]

He's probably intimidated by dealing with young women and just aching for a pair of maternal arms around him.

Young women can be intimidating, no doubt. Then again, older women can be intimidating too. One time in 2021, I was thinking of asking out a woman born the same year as my mom (right as the woman was having a discussion with me). The mere thought of asking her out made my heart start pounding a mile a minute. I couldn't do it.

I thought I made it pretty clear through my postings: My main motivation for going older is the fertility thing (I'm petrified of pregnancy)