Intelligence in males = disadvantage?

[thomasM]

There are many refreshingly intelligent posts on this forum, I am pleasantly surprised. I want to reply to more posts, but I only have time for replies to a few things that were mentioned.

Okay when some half drunk girl starts rubbing up on me in the bar wanting to dance and it's obviously going to end in an easy lay, but instead I turn her away, was I not choosing to turn her away wanting a different girl or was she rejecting herself for me? I think I'm offended at being called a mindless automaton who can't pick my own women. I pick her. She picks me. What OTHER possibility is there? We don't just line up naked for them in a line and they walk down the line and pick one of us out.

Few men will agree with my statements to that effect, even if they are demonstrably true. ;-) Women choose who will provide the genetics with which they will mix their own, to produce unique offspring -- and yes, this is a very wise idea. Men may think they are in control, but they are not. Men will generally mate with whatever female presents herself. Women on the other hand are very choosy, selecting just the right men to satisfy the "selfish genes" which they are attempting to both replicate and improve. Women therefore are generally ruled more by instinct than by logic -- which explains why there are vastly more male as opposed to female Scientists. Would women, if primarily logical, actually choose to produce screaming, drooling poop factories? I think not, and thus another species goes extinct. Essentially, we are all nothing more than slaves to our genes -- which are the true masters guiding our destiny, by seeking through trial and error, ever higher and higher levels of survivability, regardless of what "package" they are carried in.

dude, google up the term "intellectual wh0re" (replacing the "0" with an "o" of course)and then read laddertheory.com and you will find yourself as the prototype of what this term refers to. For your own sake, get the hell out out of that ****ty relation you have with her. You are her b*tch and are only f**king yourself over. Trust me.

I had the same fate in High School -- years too young to date the girls in my grade class, yet intelligent enough to be their "secret friend". They would cry on my shoulder whenever their Jock boyfriend wronged them, then go right back to their Jock boyfriend at the first, even slight indication of remorse. I never understood this behavior, but it must have something to do with survival of the fittest -- Darwin's law of Natural Selection. Even my best friend in Junior High dropped me as a best friend, even humiliating me publicly in front of her "new" friends, simply because I was a nerd. She also went from straight A's in Science to a D- (opting instead to read jewelry catalogs in Science class). Puberty really does a number on most girls.

There is an exception to this. Some women, especially the control freaks among the female gender (whose numbers are disproportinately increasing) are intimidated (fearful) of men that can mentally outmaneuver them. Most women operate in this AFC-ridden world where women with few redeeming characteristics nonetheless receive an excess of male attention. This gives them a certain attitude with men that can only be described as spoiled. When faced with a challenge, these women generally become intrigued, having finally come across a man who doesn't grovel for her attention. Some of these women, however, enjoy the power they inherently have over an AFC. When women become older, more jaded, etc., they begin to have the attitude of the latter category. In any event, this latter category of women is a kind you want to avoid anyhow, unless you happen to like being emasculated/castrated. Men often seek women less intelligent (or experiencd) than themselves for the same reason: it confers a degree of control that, for many men, is an aphrodesiac and adds a degree of comfort.

That my friend is an extremely sad state of affairs indeed. :-(

Unlike the crystalline world of ideas, numbers, principles, etcetera, the social world is dominated by people. People are fickle, emotional, and generally irrational creatures. For the systematizing mind that likes to categorize and deal with abstractions, it is hard to understand people the way one can understand ideas or create mental abstractions

An eloquent expression of exactly where I am right now! Will I remain here for life? Time will tell. However I have my work success, such as interplanetary space research, to give meaning to my otherwise meaningless existence -- even if I never find a wife, or father children (the meaning found in most mens lives).

If you are of the 130+ crowd, I suggest you stop what you are doing and go buy "How to win friends and influence people."

The book is sort of "gamey" and "manipulative", so I'll save you a few bucks and summarize:

Thanks, but the initial inquiry was to see why women reject intelligent men, not "how can I win with women and influence people". I'm a lost cause in that department I'm afraid. I'm just holding out for that one in probably MORE than a million who clicks, and finds me to be charming. In lieu of success, I'm very much resigned to a life of solitude, if that's how things end up. It's not that bad really, I do have broadband after all. ;-)

 

[thomasM]

The OP is 100% correct. According to Gene Expression, every IQ point above 100 increases the chance of virginity by 2.7% at age 19. Over 130, and your probably a virgin!
49% of MIT students=virgins.
45 of Harvard students=virgins.

I am not quite a virgin. That being said, celibacy may be ubiquitous amongst those of Highest Genius, however I assure you that it is not by choice.

but just because im Bill Gates doesn't mean that I understand people or women. It doesn't mean I have "emotional intelligence", that I have mastered myself. Bill Gates once said that his mother still tells him to change his shirt and comb his hair because he doesn't care otherwise. Maybe he has so much money that he doesn't care about that stuff, or maybe he's a great business/technology person but his mother still has better social skills?

Having met Bill Gates, I can say with some level of authority, that Gates is not a nerd, at least not in the classic sense.

The hottest women that I've seen are usually with the guys that can barely speak, and seem to still be struggling with the concept of walking erect. They usually know three words: "meat", "gym", and "beer". The guys with the Ph.D.'s, the aeronautical engineers, the mathematicians...those are the guys that get stuck with the average girls and the fugs.

my point exactly

Women will always want a cave man. This is why rape is more or less a feminist invention in most cases. They don't want a gentleman-they want a moron. Remember, women fall into a more narrowly distributed range of IQ; there just aren't as many 130+ IQ women. Over 130 and you have a very serious disadvantage.

So you're telling me that what we've been taught regarding gender equality is all crap, that women are special, and need to be treated as special, and kept by us as pets -- yet constantly told that they are our equals? Such a woman is not for me. I'd rather be alone.

What is so ironic is that when i'm on i can make others laugh with a real witty flow, but it feels very uncomfortable, like it's illegal or something when this happens and i also don't seem to have control over when i can be witty and when i can't. It's ultimately a self-awareness, self-permission thing coupled with difficulty trusting others with my color and emotion...and to think that i'm a gifted artist!

Now what happens when the man is both significantly more intelligent, and significantly more artistic? What then? Rare among persons of Genius are those of "Universal Genius" -- where both Science and Art become one. These persons are an extreme anomaly and don't fit well within either camp, however I can say from experience that it is much easier to suppress artistic ability than ones general intelligence.

To give you a rather interesting reference point, I often cry in art museums -- now try to find a woman, even an artistic woman who has found herself doing the same. Does art itself move one to tears? It does, but only those who truly understand Art in a way which can only be understood by fellow artists. Art I find, is wasted upon more than 90% of those who collect, and indeed claim to appreciate art.

Though I can't stand "small talk", I learned to find it entertaining. Not that I find it intellectually stimulating. I find it comical. I have a hard time contributing to such drivel, so instead, I shut up and listened.

Shut up + listen = score with women

I understand what you are saying. However, when I do this in a group people tend to think that I am a "wallflower", that I am shy and introverted, when in fact I am not the least bit interested in what they are discussing. Meanwhile, the alpha male of the group sits there making the women laugh at his meaningless banter.

People just LOOooooOOOOve to feel superior. So, let them.

Doesn't this go against being the "alpha male" in the group, to let people feel superior to you?

That would mean dude has a 189.234+ IQ

That is correct. I was born of Highest Genius,+5.5 standard deviations from the mean; scoring septuple nines, in the 99.999998th percentile on the Stanford-Binet form LM, at the age of 9, with a measured IQ of 188. At the present time, there are only 6 living people (including myself) in the United States (129 living people worldwide) whose percentile scores match or exceed my own, a rarity of about one in every fifty million (50,000,000) persons. I hope you can understand why it is exceedingly difficult to find women at my intellectual level.

 

[Jestor]

Although intelligence clearly has a demonstrable advantage in business (and for survival in general), intelligence in males has shown, by personal experience , to be a considerable disadvantage while seeking a mate. I am curious if this is indeed a universal truth, or merely a regional phenomenon?

I found a study performed by the Social Sciences department at the University of Bristol, which suggests a statistical 35% decrease in the likelihood of mating for each positive deviation increase in intelligence (16 IQ points). Thus in my case, this would reflect a 192.5% chance that I will never find a mate. It appears that in general, most women prefer men who are both dumb, and brutish.

This trend is probably instinctive, rooted deeply in an ancient evolutionary survival advantage; for if you mate with a strong brutish man, you will produce strong brutish offspring, those better able to survive. Logically, even today, this still makes evolutionary sense, for on the playground, as well as in adult life, the strong and ruthless are always in charge, and thus command majority control over all human wealth and resources. One never hears reports of dumb brutish kids (bullies) being picked on, or domineered by nerds!

So what is the general consensus out there? Is there really little hope for intelligent men?

haha..I wouldn't say intelligence is a drawback. What IS a drawback is the over-analysis of the minute things women do. I've realized that the real irony in trying to apply too much intelligence to pick up women is that it tends to make you outcome-dependent (needy). Even in the face of success your inner game still takes a beating because you're assuming a difficult path as the way to get women. But dumbing things down means you can relate to women as people rather than like a test you have to ace.

 

[speakeasy]

The OP is 100% correct. According to Gene Expression, every IQ point above 100 increases the chance of virginity by 2.7% at age 19. Over 130, and your probably a virgin!
49% of MIT students=virgins.
45 of Harvard students=virgins.

Part of this is explained by, you guessed it, lower testosterone levels in men with higher IQs. 75-90 IQ range=highest levels of testosterone AND lowest rate of virginity. Smarter men are not any less attractive on average. They are less athletic, less socially aware, and generally more beta male. For me, the problem with my IQ is not my IQ itself-it's the mental illness that so strongly correlates with higher IQ individuals. I have severe OCD and have been hospitalized for depression. Talk about a game killer.

Women will always want a cave man. This is why rape is more or less a feminist invention in most cases. They don't want a gentleman-they want a moron. Remember, women fall into a more narrowly distributed range of IQ; there just aren't as many 130+ IQ women. Over 130 and you have a very serious disadvantage.

Then you had guys like Howard Hughes that were eccentric, had OCD, high intelligence, and he was banging Hollywood actresses. So I don't know, I'm not so sure the intelligence per se has much to do with the lack of female skills. I think we also have this image of intelligent men as socially inept, introspective nerds. But think about someone like Bill Clinton, he was very intelligent, had a very talkative and sociable demeanor and probably did well with the ladies when he was young.

 

[speakeasy]

Somebody said that higher IQ people tend to have less testosterone and are more likely to be sexually inexperienced. Does someone have a reference for that study? I'd be curious to find out more about it.

 

[treefingers]

Nice post szof

Learn how to develop a systematized understanding of people and society

Do you recommend any books towards this goal?

Obviously this is done with personal experience but reading books on these subjects can help one to make sense of some seemingly irrational things. Evolutionary psychology comes to mind.

Moreover, understanding people means accepting that social status is conferred to people who exhibit characteristics whose evolutionary function is defunct.

Can you elaborate on this perhaps? I am assuming you are referring to the evo psych belief that we haven't evolved since the pleitoscene (sp?). This view is looking more and more unlikely if you pay attention to evo biology in particular population genetics. For example read this article...

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/science/26human.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Evolution doesn't take vacations nor does it take long periods to occur.

For example, an intelligent male hunter, if he effectively deploys his intelligence, will kill more game relative to intellectually modest peers. The resulting success in killing game will, in turn, confer social standing which, as we all know, results in more mating opportunities.

I agree. But haven't you ever seen the phenomenon of the hot girl with idiot/******* guy that does really stupid stuff (eg completely irresponsible, no direction in life, thinks nothing of riding his motorcycle while drunk and without a helmet, etc). It's surprisingly common.



And to the OP


Please reference the study to which you refer if at all possible.

I am curious if this is indeed a universal truth, or merely a regional phenomenon?

Hard to say. Look for instance at the very high average intelligence among chinese. Is this due to chinese women actually having a mate selection bias towards intelligent men or is it a product of a cultural system that weeds out and alienates dumb men while steering women towards marrying smart men? If it's the former than there must be a survival benefit from it.

This trend is probably instinctive, rooted deeply in an ancient evolutionary survival advantage; for if you mate with a strong brutish man, you will produce strong brutish offspring, those better able to survive. Logically, even today, this still makes evolutionary sense,

This is the common explanation but I am not quite convinced by it.

What did the brutish caveman do when the smart cavemen used their heads to organize and structure themsellves into a group? Or when the smart cavemen designed bow and arrows?

How did the inhabitants of the new world fair when the smart europeans showed up with guns? Technology matters. Intelligence matters.

So I never quite bought into the idea that some how the brutish man offers a survival advantage over the smart one.

This point is illustrated even better by the following...

He is younger, and has many flaws, including unemployment, fiscal irresponsibility, and so on

This is not uncommon among the jerks/*******s/badboys that women seem to like so much.

Take the 'not being good with money' part. In cave man days this would have meant not managing resources well ex not saving food or water for leaner times/ overexploiting water sources or food sources, etc. This would have = poor survival = less genetic fitness = women shouldn't be hard wired to find such men attractive.

It's also not uncommon for these types of men to be impulsive and irresponsible in general. Being stupid these days isn't so harmful what with modern medicine, cheap food, government hand outs etc In caveman days life was VERY unforgiving so being impulsive and irresponsible = poor survival = less genetic fitness = women shouldn't be hard wired to find such men attractive.

 

[Interceptor]

I'm not positive, but are we just arguing logically on a point that is not really based on a Man's logic?
I mean, women seem to respond to something more primal, like body types, facial charcateristics, and mannerisms of males exhibiting masculine traits, and exuding testosterone.
It just seems like we're arguing the same old "Women Like Jerks!" But they don't recognize our Intellectual Genius! Therefore, they are stupid women!"
Sure, women want "smart" men. But not intelectual Elitists, whom don't really use common conversational verbiage in social settings.
That's a Red Flag to the majority of women IMHO.

Because they want good conversation, know that there are higher probabilities of you being gainfully employed, and may have the intellect to do household things like running a household, etc.
But women really want "masculine" men, because..........well, that's just what they want!

What man here really wants a "butch" female for a wife?

You get my drift?


Just my two..

 

[Luke Skywalker]

If you're just too dam logical when berating a girl (a.ka. Luke), then you are going to get nothing more than a mercy lay.

huh? What is aka Luke? How did my name get on here?

 

[Scought]

The OP is trying way too hard to show his 'intelligence.'

Come on dude, this is suffocating, and reeks of insecurity and a stuck-up attitude.

 

[Create Reality]

Hmmm interesting feedback.......but theres a rumor that goes like this, for every IQ point over 110 a man's chance to solidify a meaniful sexcapade decreases by almost 3 percent. Attraction is never black & white....it's counter-intuitive and falls into the grey area. Most Intelligent men cannot think in the grey zone.....there in lies the parodox. Mensa wannabe's extract knowledge from books n school. Not too many people teaching how to pick up women. Smart people are used to getting A's, hitting on women and one might get rejected and to an aspiring Eienstein, that rejection is a failure.....totally unacceptable.

It's only when the mind opens to free thinking does attraction have a chance.

E=MC2 but never leads to attraction.

COD I must say I find your post to be insightful. It seems as if our mentality around here is fostering this black and white image of attraction. In reality I think the real reason for failures are the walls we build inside to protect our egos, is not allowing us to see the shades of grey that exist when we interact with women. No more of this 'looks matter' shallowness. I do believe that the process of attraction lends itself to openness in thinking, even if that means little fallacious beliefs about life. While there might be a universal truth and fact about the mechanics of life, it doesn't make you an object of her affection when you only treat her as black and white.

 

[The Forms]

Why is it so hard for you guys to understand that it's not your IQ that's turning women off, it's your personality. Lack of basic social skills.

This whole "I'm better than all of you because I'm smart" thing has got to stop. It's really annoying.

You're really showcasing WHY women don't want to be around you. Quit acting so superior. It's not working for you.

Why do so many of you think that a high IQ has anything to do with the problem in the first place? Saying "women don't like me because of my IQ" is like saying "women don't like me because of my periphereal vision."

Regardless, complaining about not getting women is like chewing gum about poverty. It might give you something to do, but it won't fix your problem.

You have all the tools you need at your disposal here at sosuave to fix the problem. You can make this thread 63 pages long and it won't do a thing if you don't absorb the material here and use it.

 

[Nighthawk]

If you can't figure out how to be charming, you're not much of a genius.

I love smart chicks, couldn't date a thicky. But am I going to go for a high IQ woman who is unattractive in every other way? This is where the 'I'm too clever' excuse makers go wrong. Intelligence without wit, or ability to connect (see OPs 'I have no interest in their conversation') is useless. The Bill Clinton example is great, intelligence plus game is the ultimate prize for most women.

 

[belividere]

Why is it so hard for you guys to understand that it's not your IQ that's turning women off, it's your personality. Lack of basic social skills.

This whole "I'm better than all of you because I'm smart" thing has got to stop. It's really annoying.

You're really showcasing WHY women don't want to be around you. Quit acting so superior. It's not working for you.

Why do so many of you think that a high IQ has anything to do with the problem in the first place? Saying "women don't like me because of my IQ" is like saying "women don't like me because of my periphereal vision."

Regardless, complaining about not getting women is like chewing gum about poverty. It might give you something to do, but it won't fix your problem.

You have all the tools you need at your disposal here at sosuave to fix the problem. You can make this thread 63 pages long and it won't do a thing if you don't absorb the material here and use it.

TF, this is your second phenomenal response to this thread. I should have mentioned how much I agreed with your first post in my first response.

The op is a troll. Not that hard to realize after reading three lines into his first post.

If he's not a troll than his problems with girls are based on his NPD. I have no basis in psychology and am able to realize that this douchebag suffers from severe narcissistic delusions of grandeur. The same holds true for everyone who responded to this troll acting like their smarter than everyone else. Your all idiots, or at least fvcked in the head. It is not your intellect holding you back; it is your personality.

And yes my grammar isn't proper.

Anyone who offers an iq score as a mark of intelligence is an idiot, anyone who claims to think outside the box while their stuck in one is an idiot, anyone who acts like a pompous know-it-all knows nothing. Seriously. This is like saying that I have a 14" c0ck so I'm a better lover than you. No one cares except the ones that you dont want to care.

Anyone who is as smart as the op claims should easily be able to will people into their doings.

Personally if I was going to act like I was smarter than everyone else in the world I would prove it by doing something useful like curing cancer, aids, or world hunger. Since your stuck on believing that your better than everyone else and never going to find a female companion to complement you why not spend your time productively? You'll never find an intellectual equal here since your obviously (according to your retarded logic) smarter than people here who do get girls.

 

[robstar]

To the original poster, if in fact you aren't a troll:
Read the Book of Pook. Enough said.

 

[Interceptor]

Read the Book of Pook. Enough said.

I think this can pretty much be used to address most of the issues we're facing in these types of posts.

Really, you guys (who haven't read it) should try it...

You may realize something.
True, you intellectuals probably won't feel so damn good and proud of yourselves after reading it, but hey..at some point you're going to break down and admit it. Why not now?

 

[backbreaker]

quick situation:

I think 7 years ago, I had a HOT GF. Smokin hot. her only downside, if you even want to call it that is that she was from what one would call "trash".

I've always been a smart guy. I'm not the guy that goes around with books on physics or anything, but I have a pretty nice vocab, I study and I don't HIDE my intelligence, however I don't flaunt it either. I've always been comfortable in my own skin. I like who I am for better or for worse. I don't go around doing things that aren't me to fit in and such.

We broke up, mainly because I wasn't "hood" enough for her.

was I WRONG for being smart? hell no. she was just too dumb to see what she had. she now is 23 with 3 kids and works at KFC

As the previous poster said, assuming you don't analyze everything with a toothpick, like attracts like.

 

[backbreaker]

If you can't figure out how to be charming, you're not much of a genius.

I love smart chicks, couldn't date a thicky. But am I going to go for a high IQ woman who is unattractive in every other way? This is where the 'I'm too clever' excuse makers go wrong. Intelligence without wit, or ability to connect (see OPs 'I have no interest in their conversation') is useless. The Bill Clinton example is great, intelligence plus game is the ultimate prize for most women.

charm has little to do with intelligence and everything to do with emotions. you can't calculate charm. There isn't a theory on attraction.

part of being intelligent is knowing when not to think

 

[blueguy]

I wanted to reply here earlier, but I think the answer is obvious.

There are a few recent scientific studies which have confirmed old theories and linked different parts of the brain that account for different types of intelligence.

I believe there are about 7 or 8 different types of intelligence that have been confirmed, some which are related, some not. I don't remember them all, but a few...

Book Intelligence
Social Intelligence
Creative Intelligence
Sport (Coordinative) Intelligence

Actually, here is a list from a professor: http://skyview.vansd.org/lschmidt/Projects/The Nine Types of Intelligence.htm

So of course, the average IQ test, which only measures mathematical and linguistic intelligence is not going to relate to how well a guy does with girls. In fact, it can be argued that guys that focus only on "book" intelligence are not going to develop their other intelligences to the same capacity that most of their peers will. Also, it's important to note that intelligence isn't limited and any area of the brain can become more intelligent with use.

 

[Remulak]

Thomas, you sound like a loser, sorry but intelligence is a great thing to possess but by the way you write I can sense your condescending attitude toward everyone. Guess what buddy, arrogance is not attractive. You probably correct peoples' grammar while they're talking to you, don't you? No one likes to be made a fool of get over yourself. A woman would rather spend time with a funny confident guy than some loser like you who has to ponder existential philosophy and standard deviations all day.

 

[Nighthawk]

charm has little to do with intelligence and everything to do with emotions. you can't calculate charm. There isn't a theory on attraction.

There are plenty of theories of attraction right on this site. I am charming as fuck, and my intelligence has helped me cultivate that. Charm, social dynamics, these are systems that can be analyzed and understood to a large degree, as they are every day by millions of people. If a supposedly highly intelligent man can't get a grip, and even excel with his huge brain advantage, his 'intelligence' must be a severely limited type.