Intelligence in males = disadvantage?

[speakeasy]

Although intelligence clearly has a demonstrable advantage in business (and for survival in general), intelligence in males has shown, by personal experience , to be a considerable disadvantage while seeking a mate. I am curious if this is indeed a universal truth, or merely a regional phenomenon?

Interesting question. You know, the more intelligent the woman is, it seems like the less fun our interaction is. I seem to hit if off best with women don't share much in the way of my intellectual interests. In fact, I'm kind of having this problem right now with a girl I'm talking to. I think we're both intelligent people with a lot of interests, and sometimes that almost gets in the way, because our conversations become fixated on things outside of ourselves. Whereas if I'm talking to a girl that's not so intelligent, we avoid those topics and talk about things that are funny and flirtatious. In fact I'm even going to start a seperate thread on this topic because it's been on my mind.

But back to your original question, I don't think intelligence per se stops a guy from having success with women. I think it's that highly intelligent guys tend to not develop those skills for whatever reason. David DeAngelo has made the same observation, that very intelligent guys tend to have very bad fortune with women. I think many of us have a wide variety of interests and love talking about theory and politics and things of that nature which tend to appeal to highly intelligent people. Of course these sort of topics don't lead to the feeling of attraction in a woman, even with an intelligent woman. Which is actually a shame because the human race would be better off if those high IQ genes are the ones that get passed on, rather than the dumbass badboy's genes. But as they say, life isn't fair.

 

[speakeasy]

She spends most of her time with this hunky but dumb and irresponsible guy, but calls me on the phone whenever she is in the need of intelligent conversation. I willingly comply with this arrangement, as it is the only meaningful relationship that I have, and for the moment, the only vocal interaction that I have with a female, whom I find attractive.

Dude, google up the term "intellectual wh0re" (replacing the "0" with an "o" of course)and then read laddertheory.com and you will find yourself as the prototype of what this term refers to. For your own sake, get the hell out out of that ****ty relation you have with her. You are her b*tch and are only f**king yourself over. Trust me.

 

[belividere]

I'll keep this short, sweet, and stupid. I'm a couple of months from getting a phd in engineering. People think that I'm smart because of it; I'm not. Everyday I'm surrounded by people who think that their better than everyone else because they're supposedly smart. Their intelligence doesn't hold them back their attitude does. Most people hate pompous a55holes who try to act like their IQ differentiates them from everyone else.

Get over yourself and quit trying to prove yourself. The smartest people that I know sit in the corner with their mouths shut. When they have something worthwhile to say they say it. They dont go around pissing out big words trying to belittle people.

 

[Infraction]

I see myself as very intellegent, but i don't show "that" side when i am with chicks, i don't need to.
When i am with chicks i am just playfull-its enough. When i am with older people then i let my intellegent side do its magic.

 

[GtarPlayr73]

My own experience has taught me that for a woman to really capture me, she has to be attrative (to a sufficient degree) BUT she also has to be intelligent. A woman who observes things, is well-read, aware of the world and the bigger picture is just such a turn-on. That's why the hot but dumb club chicks are just so damned boring and why i don't even twitch a neuron at the thought of trying pull that kind of ass. I just wouldn't even begin to know where to start and wouldn't want to. Yeah, you know why? Dealing with the shallow clubbing girl is just like dealing with a child. You know how when you had to babysit some kid and you have to lower your intelligence level in order to "relate"? That's what dealing with the clubbing type is like. No thanks. I'd rather keep it real. Yeah, and sex with such a type feels good physically, but it really isn't a complete turn on because you're not able to relate or click with the girl. You KNOW she doesn't get you. You KNOW she wouldn't begin to understand your world, your thoughts, your interests and so you feel that strangeness, that barrier, you KNOW you are still a stranger to her and you always will be.

The hotties that we Americans associate with the clubbing scene are women who are instructed by society to look and act a certain way. They are almost always extroverts which means that their energy and meaning in life comes from the outside world versus an inside world. So they are naturally skilled at learning and adhering to whatever the designated societal code is - dress this way, order this drink, use these words, text using lol and omg, so and so forth. Intelligent or hyper intelligent men are not concerned with such codes. They're operating on a higher, more stimulating level. They are also much more likely to be introverts, that is, energized when alone and studying or thinking or creating. So when the intelligent man encounters an equally intelligent woman, chemistry happens through intelligent convo that is beyond social gossip, reality show recaps, etc.

The key is for the intelligent man and woman to use their intelligence to understand how attraction, appearance, and emotions play an important role in socializing when necessary to enhance a life of inner richness. The omniman or the DJ is that breed of person that can step outside himself, step outside of the box, and become aware that things don't have to be as they have been. It is possible to reach a place of success in all areas through self-acceptance and self-improvement. This is the essence of awakened consciousness.

 

[mrRuckus]

Contrary to common wisdom, women pick men, not the other way around

Okay when some half drunk girl starts rubbing up on me in the bar wanting to dance and it's obviously going to end in an easy lay, but instead I turn her away, was I not choosing to turn her away wanting a different girl or was she rejecting herself for me? I think I'm offended at being called a mindless automaton who can't pick my own women. I pick her. She picks me. What OTHER possibility is there? We don't just line up naked for them in a line and they walk down the line and pick one of us out.

This is just another of those WOWZERS THAT SOUNDS SO PROFOUND AND SMRT IM GONNA REPEAT IT ULL I CIN! MAYBE I SEND TO CONFUSCIUS AND HE PUT IN COOKIE

Man you come in here spouting all this nonsense. Look at this:

I found a study performed by the Social Sciences department at the University of Bristol, which suggests a statistical 35% decrease in the likelihood of mating for each positive deviation increase in intelligence (16 IQ points). Thus in my case, this would reflect a 192.5% chance that I will never find a mate.

What the hell kind of math is that? You actually think that increase is linear and could possibly pass 1? You don't even give a starting point. 16 IQ points increase past WHAT? I'm gonna start sniffing gasoline and rubber cement so i can be dum enuf to get gurls.

God, just act like a moron around girls a little bit and you'll get laid. I'm tired of you arrogant pricks with your starchy shirts hiding behind the "all these girls are so dumb" mantra and looking for an outside source to blame because you refuse to just go have some fun.

Intelligence invariably gets equated to "i'm smart so i get to be boring as sh1t and not have fun."

 

[Vulpine]

What the hell kind of math is that?

Come on... simple Algrebra! All the numbers are there! Just throw them into some math!

If

x = .35

then

16x = 5.6

192.5/5.6 = 34.375


Since he didn't cite a start point, the default start is zero, as in "0 + 34.375". So, his IQ is 34.375


I was just kidding... the actual math on that is:

192.5/35 = 5.5

5.5 * 16 = 88

Again, since he didn't cite a a start point, we can just assume his IQ is 88.
(0+88)

 

[AlphaOmega]

Forgive me if it has already been said, I haven't had time to look through all the posts.

Firstly, what is intelligence really? Can we really define that? Is it being good at certain things, or all things? Can I be intelligent if im good at math, but can't write at a grade 7 level? I think that there is no definition for intelligence, there can not be, because there are so many different things which can be used as a measure of intelligence or which could indicate one is intelligent.

Michael Jordan was a great basketball player, greatest ever. His "basketball IQ", his intellegence, his talent, is not something that cannot be considered intelligence. A report once said, "Michael Jordan plays basketball better than anyone does anything else on the planet", and its hard to disagree with or disprove even though it may be a stretch. What happened when he tried baseball? Moto Racing? Managing a team? He either stunk, failed, quite, or got fired. Does that mean Michael Jordan is an intellegint person or not?

I have seen idiot savants who cannot tie there own shoes, yet a piano or violine is placed into their hands for the first time ever, and they can already play it to a degree that would take anybody else a lifetime to master. Otherwise, these people can not lead regular lives without their parents or some state caretakers.

Basically, if you haven't gotten it by now, what im trying to say is that a person may be great at business, sports, whatever, considered intelligent, successful at life, etc. but just because im Bill Gates doesn't mean that I understand people or women. It doesn't mean I have "emotional intelligence", that I have mastered myself. Bill Gates once said that his mother still tells him to change his shirt and comb his hair because he doesn't care otherwise. Maybe he has so much money that he doesn't care about that stuff, or maybe he's a great business/technology person but his mother still has better social skills?

At the end of the day, what gets you women is your social skills, and that not only includes talking but also understanding people, being able to read them, working on your own appearance (gym, clothes, style), and so on. It is an intelligence in its own which cannot be measured with an "IQ test" and which, if one has all other forms of intelligence (if thats possible), may still never get them women.

 

[tmpgstx]

Michael Jordan was a great basketball player, greatest ever. His "basketball IQ", his intellegence, his talent, is not something that cannot be considered intelligence. A report once said, "Michael Jordan plays basketball better than anyone does anything else on the planet", and its hard to disagree with or disprove even though it may be a stretch. What happened when he tried baseball? Moto Racing? Managing a team? He either stunk, failed, quite, or got fired. Does that mean Michael Jordan is an intellegint person or not?

Good point, Micheal Jordan is an idiot. He is probably smarter than Shack, but that sure as he!! isn't saying much.

So much emphasis is placed on being socialable to date women. It is true, being more socialable will definitley put the odds in your favor, but is not the end-all, be-all solution to dating. There are alot of fake personalities out there. Some people develope a fake laugh, just like a fake smile. They are as insecure as everyone else.

One way you can use intelligence to your advantage is gain validation. The poster is having this girl call him seeking his intelligence stamp of approval. She won't put out for him though, because if he talks like this to her as he does in his post, he isn't gonna be tapping that booty.

I got to hand it to Pook and we should all learn from him. When he wrote an article, it was done in an emotional context. This was no doubt on purpose to get him appealing that way to women. He could still be smart, but with that 'emotional catch'.

Read the poster's text, and then Pook's. Both are very intelligent people, but judging from the conversational elements and tone, what guy do you think is going to get the girl? Pook would. He makes her feel.

 

[GtarPlayr73]

Yeah, i have to bite on the OP's point and the email above ^^^. Women do want only two things when it comes to SEXUAL ATTRACTION: strength and entertainment value. Hell, even take a highly intelligent, brainy nerd-girl and she'll still want a "hot athlete" over a dorky computer programmer just as the dorky computer programmer would take a hot woman off of the Spanish Channel over a brainy nerd-girl every day of the week.

Meeting, dating, and mating women has nothing to do with intelligence. They are emotionally-based creatures and no amount of head knowledge, history, philosophy, sociology, physics, geology, technology discourse is going to get them wet and horny. They want to feel and need to feel emotions in order to be able to respond to you. Facts and figures and theories are utterly useless.

This has been a huge challenge for me. I'm so caught up in my head that i hardly know how to live from my heart. I'm serious, humorless, intellectual, stiff, and passionless. I do not express my emotions. No wonder i couldn't keep the latest HB8.5 interested in me over time. She told me i was "kinda stiff" and remarked several times that i never get angry with anyone. I hardly ever genuinely laugh and i can't remember the last time i wept uncontrollably. I'm emotionally flat when around other people. I'm great at feeling frustrated and getting pissed off when by myself, but, with women, i am hardly animated. All the worse, i can be self-conscious about it when around women. It's a huge issue and is definitely inhibiting my ability to excite women and have FUN with them (outside the bedroom). I suspect i'm not the only one like this on this forum...

I know the root causes, namely, my father was questioned and negated by his father and so he did the same with me growing up. He cracked down on me whenever i screwed up and so i learned that life was serious and so i had to be serious. This carried over to my peer experiences which were very difficult for a number of years. What is so ironic is that when i'm on i can make others laugh with a real witty flow, but it feels very uncomfortable, like it's illegal or something when this happens and i also don't seem to have control over when i can be witty and when i can't. It's ultimately a self-awareness, self-permission thing coupled with difficulty trusting others with my color and emotion...and to think that i'm a gifted artist!

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...Smarter men are not any less attractive on average. They are less athletic, less socially aware, and generally more beta male. ....

This isn't because of a higher IQ. A beer swilling, NASCAR watching, couch potato mouth breather with only a 3rd grade education could fall into this category and not because of his IQ, it would happen if he is lacking in social skills. This would be the case with anyone.

 

[GamePlan]

The dumber or less intellectual you are, the less you're going to overthink things, like approaching women.

Exactly what I was gonna say. There's actually a high correlation between giftedness and being introverted/shyness. I also know some obviously rather dumb people who crash their car 2 times in a row for driving drunk and still dont worry whether that could have actually killed them. Those are 2 extremes, but the tendency is obviously there..

Stop worrying about it, just go out and do something about it even if its harder for you than it is for other people.

You cannot change your genetics so knowing/understanding whether it is true that intelligence has a negative impact on mating or not doesn't even matter. You are you and you have to make the best of it.

I'm curious like that, too and used to always wonder about things like that and dig deeper, but there's no point whatsoever in doing it. It just keeps you from going outside and actually doing something and you're back in the vicious cycle of overthinking.

 

[tmpgstx]

me. She told me i was stiff and remarked several times that i never get angry with anyone. I hardly ever genuinely laugh and i can't remember the last time i wept uncontrollably. I'm emotionally flat when around other people. I'm great at feeling frustrated and getting pissed off when by myself, but, with women, i am hardly animated. All the worse, i can be self-conscious about it when around women. It's a huge issue and is definitely inhibiting my ability to excite and be excited by women. I suspect i'm not the only one like this on this forum...

I grew up 'hard' too, nothing much was even my fault, just displaced anger. You take things much more seriously as you don't want to make mistakes. It's perfectionism. Most intelligent people are perfectionists, now try growing up this way and being intelligent, you get compounded perfectionism.

What's good about this is that it incurs major focus, dertermination, and discipline. All the elements that beget success. However, it does not allow you to take yourself lightly. Around women, it should be light and fun.

One thing i found helped is just to smile at yourself in the mirror. Get used to smiling more. It should be second nature. Smiling is the foundation to having fun.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

This has been a huge challenge for me. I'm so caught up in my head that i hardly know how to live from my heart. I'm serious, humorless, intellectual, stiff, and passionless. I do not express my emotions. No wonder i couldn't keep the latest HB8.5 interested in me over time. She told me i was "kinda stiff" and remarked several times that i never get angry with anyone. I hardly ever genuinely laugh and i can't remember the last time i wept uncontrollably. I'm emotionally flat when around other people. I'm great at feeling frustrated and getting pissed off when by myself, but, with women, i am hardly animated. All the worse, i can be self-conscious about it when around women. It's a huge issue and is definitely inhibiting my ability to excite women and have FUN with them (outside the bedroom). I suspect i'm not the only one like this on this forum...

No, you are definately not the only one like this in my forum. I just broke up with someone yesterday on this who was an 'ideal candidate'.

You know, I wonder if this is genuinely an 'inner game' type of issue, or it's because we aren't meeting enough women and therefore we are anxious over our lack of options.

What are you going to do to deal with this? Seek councelling, therapy, or do you think of buying into one of them e-books or mp3's out there to work on your inner game?

I know the root causes, namely, my father was questioned and negated by his father and so he did the same with me growing up. He cracked down on me whenever i screwed up and so i learned that life was serious and so i had to be serious. This carried over to my peer experiences which were very difficult for a number of years. What is so ironic is that when i'm on i can make others laugh with a real witty flow, but it feels very uncomfortable, like it's illegal or something when this happens and i also don't seem to have control over when i can be witty and when i can't. It's ultimately a self-awareness, self-permission thing coupled with difficulty trusting others with my color and emotion...and to think that i'm a gifted artist!

Well at least you have a cause - I'm an only child and have a controlling mother which may have the same sort of effect, and I'm sort of stuck under their roof over 31 y/o - maybe that's my cause. Let us all know how you are progressing with your stickling points.

 

[Vulpine]

The OP is 100% correct. According to Gene Expression, every IQ point above 100 increases the chance of virginity by 2.7% at age 19. Over 130, and your probably a virgin!
49% of MIT students=virgins.
45 of Harvard students=virgins.
...
What smart guys need to do: help each other out. Encourage each other. Share tips.

I guess I'd be an exception to that rule. I lost my virginity at 15. But, it may have something to do with a little something that Teddy Roosevelt said stuck with me at an early age:

"Walk softly and carry a big stick."

I learned to avoid intellectual conversations. It turns out that I pretty much flat-out suck at talking because I tend to make people feel inept and/or have a hard time relating to many people's thought processes. So I learned an outstanding tool...

Though I can't stand "small talk", I learned to find it entertaining. Not that I find it intellectually stimulating. :nono: I find it comical. I have a hard time contributing to such drivel, so instead, I shut up and listened.

Shut up + listen = score with women.

The mistake that the brainiacs make is simply opening their mouths... then they let them run - onandonandonandon about ultra-instense subjects on levels far beyond the grasp of those with less capacity. So, shut it.

If you are of the 130+ crowd, I suggest you stop what you are doing and go buy "How to win friends and influence people."

The book is sort of "gamey" and "manipulative", so I'll save you a few bucks and summarize:

Put yourself in other people's shoes. Read their reactions to your words. Understand their backgrounds and situations before complaining or bragging. When they say something offensive or otherwise potentially aggrivating, consider why and how they came to saying it. And, before you say something, consider what their reactions will likely be. People are intimidated by those much smarter than themselves, and intimidating women goes against building comfort and raport.

Being fairly sharp, I had a hard time relating to others. For me, things that could be left unsaid had to be said for others. Certain things I took as "given" weren't understood. So, when I did speak, I learned another valuable lesson...

Slow down. Speak slowly and watch that others are following. If they get lost, back up and make sure they understand. I heard a long time ago that the reason people from the south (or, "rednecks", if you prefer) are perceived as stupid is purely because they speak slowly. Bingo - step one for me*. From there, you pause more often to check feedback or field the "but...?" and "so...?" type clarifications. Also, pause to change the 7 tile, 50 point scrabble words to 3 letter ones whenever possible.

*reason #2 was due to my left-handedness and being prone to frequent spoonerisms

People just LOOooooOOOOve to feel superior. So, let them.

Appear fallible, sound acute, go ahead and intentionally ask someone how or why when you already know how, why, and where the origins started.

Hell, even say "Wow! You learn something new every day" to sh!t you know to be false. Then laugh heartily on the inside. No harm, no foul - and you made someone feel smart, thus good.

Oh, and the cherry on top:

Since I've found SS, one huge thing I learned was to not apologize for my "making people feel dumb" mistakes. Being smaght aint somthin ya gotta pologize for. Example:

HB: "Vulpine, you're an azzhole. I'm not completely stupid, you know."
Before...
V: "I'm sorry."
*Vulpine acknowledges azzhole status, woman loses interest*

After...
V: "Huh... really? Jeez, you really had me going there. Wow! You learn something new every day!"
*woman laughs, hits, is more attracted - attempts to qualify, etc.*

I grew up 'hard' too, nothing much was even my fault, just displaced anger. You take things much more seriously as you don't want to make mistakes. It's perfectionism. Most intelligent people are perfectionists, now try growing up this way and being intelligent, you get compounded perfectionism.

Indeed. It's very hard to approach women when you want to do it "perfectly". It's like a clean freak trying to mud wrestle without getting dirty - you just can't.

 

[tmpgstx]

It really has to do with associations and anchors.

You anchor negative emotions to women, likely based on bad experiences (or bad choices). You associate that everytime a girl flakes out on you, that it is you and not her. You are placing all the value on her and none on yourself.

The way to change this creating new associations and anchors. Associate massive pleasure with beautiful worthwhile women and massive pain to not doing anything about it. Massive pain gets us to act. Massive pleasure gets us to act. Either way, keep taking action!

Don't stop because some chic said this or that. You are letting her define who you are. You define who you are.

 

[Nighthawk]

If you think your high IQ is a disadvantage, simply hit yourself over the head with a hammer until you become stupider. Hey presto - more chicks!

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

^you're missing the point. I really think a lot of guys here don't understand basic statistics. The correlation isn't perfect, so there will always be outliers. One counter-example doesn't make the GENERAL inverse relationship between IQ and sexual promiscuity any less accurate.

Everyone knows that statistics is nothing more than a tool to prove something; anything. Knowing that alone should make you question from what specific circumstances the data is gathered and whether the premise isn't just plausible but its probability of absolution.

 

[wayword]

I found a study performed by the Social Sciences department at the University of Bristol, which suggests a statistical 35% decrease in the likelihood of mating for each positive deviation increase in intelligence (16 IQ points). Thus in my case, this would reflect a 192.5% chance that I will never find a mate. It appears that in general, most women prefer men who are both dumb, and brutish.

Ha ha, I might not doubt that! Got a link to a source for that?

 

[Vulpine]

Ha ha, I might not doubt that! Got a link to a source for that?

I personally think the guy is full of sh!T. Last I knew, the IQ median was around 100.

That would mean dude has a 189.234+ IQ.

Uh...

Even if the median was 90, this dude would have a $1.79 IQ.

Or, perhaps he's trying to hook up with a chick with a 30 IQ and he's got a 119?

His 192.5% claim is complete crap because the maxium score on an IQ test is 161.

If he maxed it...

161-100 = 61
61/16 = 3.8125
3.8125 x .35 = 1.334375

The max possible percentage would be 133%, by math. Of course, you can't exceed "100%" in this case, so this guy is a toolbag.

That, or he has fat fingers and can't use a calculator.