I had my first date in ages. Here's the good and the bad.

[SW15]

We even chatted for 2 and a half hours (outside) after the dinner. A sure sign she dug me.

Why didn't you take her back to your place for sex? Talking after dinner -- good option for nightcap at your place.

I probably will buy an escort this weekend.

I haven't dated a whole lot these past 8 years (ever since discovering escorts). For the most part, I've used escorts in lieu of dating. So I'm not really able to answer your question of whether I typically buy an escort when it goes badly with a normal woman.

To answer your last 2 questions, I'd say it's the other way around. I utilize escorts to justify not dating. Escorts are my safety net.

You are going to get laid this weekend if you directly pay for sex. Your indirect payment for sex with a dinner didn't work out for you.

 

[GoodMan32]

Never got flaked on setting logistics only. Must be an American problem.

Could very well be an American problem. From what I understand, unlimited phone plans are a lot cheaper here than in most countries. As a result, texting culture is huge with Americans.

 

[GoodMan32]

Where was the first date OP, and how did you meet her?

Restaurant. I met her when her dog came up to me in public.

 

[GoodMan32]

The only way to combat texting for days is to set up the meeting after 2 days of getting her number. If you get the number Monday, by Tuesday you should be asking her to meet up with you on Wednesday or Thursday. That way you dint spend a whole week chatting over nothing.

I really only have free time (at least enough free time to date) on weekends.

 

[GoodMan32]

I believe OP posted SHE initiated the dinner date.



That said and assuming it's what you meant, OP could have suggested something more casual instead. Like drinks at a pub with cool music or something. Sit at the bar next to each other where the opportunity for escalating like kissing and touching is easier (don't tell her that lol) . Maybe share some apps.

Point is OP you need to control the frame, not her.

I agree with others, too much texting gets old and boring. But you should still text to schedule the date and once more prior to touch base, let her know you're still alive and thinking about her. Women really dig that in my experience. If she ends up doing it all, she'll come to resent it which I think is what happened here. And it all went downhill from there including your reaction.

If she texts you, keep it short. Tell her you're looking forward to your date. Remember YOU control the frame.

Not too much, not too little. Keep her wondering while indicating interest. Find the right balance and you're golden!

The story is confusing (so I understand the mix up). Here's how it all went down.

I was going about my business on Saturday. I wasn't initially looking for a date at all. Then her dog came up me in public. The woman started talking to me (and took a liking to me). I ended up asking her to dinner (which totally isn't like me; I'd typically be way too shy).

Dinner time was approaching. So she put her dog back in her apartment. Then we met back up for dinner.

The date went well.

Then come Monday, she told me she'd like to get dinner again the coming weekend. I told her I'd be down.

Then on Tuesday, she asked me where I wanted to go for dinner the coming weekend. That's when I gave her a list of local places I've tried (and liked). I wanted to see if there were any places she disliked (so as to avoid going to a place where she isn't going to like the food). She liked the sounds of all the places I mentioned. That's when I told her I'd make a GameDay decision the day of (And I thought to myself: There's no way I know on Tuesday what type of food I'm going to be in the mood for on the coming weekend).

 

[Clockwerk50]

Do you watch a lot of pr0n? Do you work out? Usually after a lot of brain stimulation it comes to a point where watching people having sex is not enough and then the next step is escorts or so I read somewhere.

I guess another thing is this girl led the whole interaction from the second she spoke to you. She initiated the text conversations, the meet up, etc. As for you, you invited her to dinner. So the question here is what did you want from her? What did you want to do with her? What was the objective?

She seemed to be fair game but there was a lot of hesitation. She didn’t know if you wanted her as a friend or romantic interest. However, if you didn’t like her that it is fair too. You shouldn’t persue things you don’t want. But again, what did you want?

 

[Bokanovsky]

This past Saturday, I had my first date in ages.

Everything was going well. We chatted quite a bit on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday (She reached out to me first on all 3 of those days). On Monday, she even asked me about getting dinner again this coming weekend (I said yeah). Then on Tuesday, she mentioned the topic again (she was wondering where exactly I wanted to go for dinner).

Yesterday, everything changed. She acted more and more annoyed as the day I went on. So around 6:30 pm, I finally told her "Maybe getting to know each other was a bad idea. I say this because it feels like we're not getting along as well today."

There was some back and forth afterwards (I can elaborate if anyone wants to know). Long story short, she wants nothing to do with me anymore.

This goes to show why I've relied mainly on escorts for the past 8 years. With escorts, there's no drama, nor is there any guesswork of whether you'll get laid (and no, I never even so much as kissed the woman this thread is about).

How did you meet her? If a woman want to go for dinner on the first date, it's usually a bad sign.

 

[corrector]

I probably will buy an escort this weekend.

Yeah, you could have the dinner by yourself instead and do that later. Plan-B right?

I haven't dated a whole lot these past 8 years (ever since discovering escorts). For the most part, I've used escorts in lieu of dating. So I'm not really able to answer your question of whether I typically buy an escort when it goes badly with a normal woman.

Do you think that has spoiled you?

To answer your last 2 questions, I'd say it's the other way around. I utilize escorts to justify not dating. Escorts are my safety net.

How many dates with "civvie"s have you been in during the past 8 years, or are you actually saying this is the first date with a "civvie" in 8 years of escortcelling?

Even with the woman this thread is about, I wasn't exactly looking for a date. The date just sort of happened (I was ultimately the one to ask her to dinner this past weekend, but she took the liking to me first).

Do you think the outcome would have been different if you used an escort after that date last week if she didn't come home with you and you didn't seal the deal with her? I mean you got the blue-balls and instead of planning another dinner date, or have it come apart like that, isn't that where escortcelling would come in and actually have a constructive purpose?

While I'm not into it because I'm a Christian and there are other spiritual issues that would spook me out, I can see someone like you doing that as a band-aid for failed dates. Like if you can't get it from a "civvie" then that is like your Plan-B. But if you use that Plan-B, then it spoils you and it's unhealthy in the long-run because you don't have it in you to really fight for what you want in the dating market. In other words, this doesn't seem to co-exist as a dating back-up plan, or a reward back-up if the date doesn't go anywhere, but you reward yourself for trying. Don't you think that using a carrot like that should be better utilized for not caring as much about outcomes with "civvies' since you have the sure thing anyway?

 

[Learning Curve]

Sounds like half of the story.

A chick that blows up your phone and wants to see you and suddenly changes behavior it's because you fuc1ked up.

Probably over-pursuing you have not shared, and acting needy and weak. Typical behavior if you have not dated for ages.

Time to step up your game.

 

[sangheilios]

I have a very low tolerance for stress. The moment a woman starts adding stress to my life, I immediately look for an exit plan.

To me, the only purpose of a woman is to take away stress. That's why once this woman started to become more stress than she was worth, I made a bail attempt.

Your mindset here is totally correct. You'll find that a good amount of stress and unhappiness men are experiencing originates from their relationships and interactions with women. Your interactions with women should be an overall enjoyable experience that adds some sort of value to your life. This is especially the case for when you are in the early dating phases of a relationship, going out on dates should be fun in my opinion.

Unfortunately, more often than not the majority of dating experiences men are experiencing today are the opposite. Disregarding how messed up the overall market in the dating world is and how excessively fussy/picky most women are, there are tons of other issues. First, many men are honestly going for very long periods of time without having even gone on a first date, let alone had one that lead to more than that. This is not a good thing for men because they often approach the dating environment a bit too intense and serious due to being on such a long drought. The blunt answer for this is because if this first date doesn't lead to anything more it could literally be months before you get another shot, anyone in a scenario like this would behave in a similar fashion.

Here is something else that I've noticed from the female side of things. Women are incredibly fussy and have an overabundance of options. A woman today may have more potential suitors in one month than a women prior to the advent of the internet may have had in an entire lifetime. This makes them far more selective with the men they even give a real chance to in the first place, whether this be actually going out on a date with them or even just messaging back and forth. To add to this, I've noticed that women often seem far to readily eager to immediately next men for honestly trivial reasons. It literally could be stupid **** like texting too much or too little, something I've seen actually quite a few times. It could be literally a million different things because they believe that they can find this perfect guy that in reality doesn't exist. They may want a guy that is 6'+, fit, sober and stable but she doesn't like the tone of one guy's voice or another guy's sense of humor or anything you can think of. At the end of it all, they end up serial dating, which actually just furthers this spiral, or they end up settling for something that seems passable when 30 starts approaching.

Side note to all of this. There is nothing wrong with seeing escorts but I believe that doing so on some sort of regular basis as your only means of sex is not a good thing for men. I think it warps your expectations of how fast things lead to sex or more serious interactions with women, which can lead to you becoming quite impatient and perhaps come across as needy or excessively pushy. This is going to be off putting to many women and they may quickly cut a guy off like this unless they are very desperate or needy themselves or highly attracted to you in the first place.

With all of this out of the way, this woman probably wasn't all that highly interested in the first place. I don't mean this as an insult but 90% of the time a man is confused about a woman or feeling the need to write a thread about one on a forum this default answer is the right one lol. Again, I don't say this as an insult, as I've been in the same spot and can relate with a lot of what you've mentioned on here.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Then on Tuesday, she asked me where I wanted to go for dinner the coming weekend. That's when I gave her a list of local places I've tried (and liked). I wanted to see if there were any places she disliked (so as to avoid going to a place where she isn't going to like the food). She liked the sounds of all the places I mentioned. That's when I told her I'd make a GameDay decision the day of (And I thought to myself: There's no way I know on Tuesday what type of food I'm going to be in the mood for on the coming weekend).

This looks like she wanted you to lead more. You could've deflected her questions, tell her the dinner location would be a surprise et cetera. Giving her a list of restaurants you like means you are giving her a choice, which means she has to take action choosing the restaurant. If you're afraid she doesn't like the food, you can always ask her about food allergies.
Also, never tell a woman how you make decisions and why, when it's not absolutely necessary to motivate your decision.

I was going about my business on Saturday. I wasn't initially looking for a date at all. Then her dog came up me in public. The woman started talking to me (and took a liking to me). I ended up asking her to dinner (which totally isn't like me; I'd typically be way too shy).

Sounds like you went for the cliche (dinner) when that is usually a high investment date and rarely a first date. Better first date would be to tell her you can have drinks later (after 21.00 hours) and keep the date short so she has to work a bit more to get you invested.

 

[CornbreadFed]

It all boils down to you having a scarcity mindset.

 

[GoodMan32]

She had low interest this whole time. No high interest woman changes her mind about you that fast. The busy with work related stuff was an excuse, she was just too chicken**** to tell you she wasn’t interested in you as much as you were in her.

Fascinating (the fact you think she wasn't as interested in me as I was in her). Some others on here have said I didn't show enough interest in her.

I'm willing to admit I'm not always right. In this case, however, there is absolutely nothing anyone can say or do to convince me she was always low interest. In addition to all the other clues she gave of being high interest, here's perhaps the biggest clue: The fact she chatted with me outside for 2 and a half hours after the first date. No low interest woman does that.

 

[SW15]

It all boils down to you having a scarcity mindset.

Most normie males (average frustrated chumps) have this.

 

[GoodMan32]

No I understood him perfectly.

How are you defining a chad? It's more than being tall with model looks that's such a misnomer.

Point being, a chad wouldn't have behaved that way. A chad is bold and confident, he leads and creates opportunities to escalate. Not just sex, but touching and kissing which can lead to sex.

A chad isnt afraid to take risks.. He has a IDGAF attitude and goes for what he wants.

Again not too much, not too little, it's a balance.

I agree you acted too beta, never reaching out, never initiating, you took the role of the woman and she became the man. As another poster said, this dried her p*ssy right up.

Ok, you're right, being a Chad goes beyond looks. Chads exhibit a certain type of behavior too.

Sometimes I overuse the term Chad to describe any guy who has more luck with the ladies than I do. Or at least any white man who has better luck than me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression Chad is a description for white men only (The equivalent term I've heard for black men is Tyrone). I myself am white by the way.

As for the reaching out thing, that one is tricky. If the guy reaches out, we could easily be seen as desperate. Furthermore, every woman is different. Some might want minimal contact between the 1st and 2nd date, some might want lots of contact. That's why I let her set the stage (and then followed her lead when she reached out).

As for initiating, I was planning on asking her to dinner again this coming weekend when the time came. By her mentioning the topic as early as Monday, she didn't give me a chance to initiate.

Here's where I'm convinced I went wrong: Reaching out to her on Wednesday (the one day I reached out first). In retrospect, she wasn't in the mood to talk Wednesday. I should have allowed the silence. Had I allowed the silence on Wednesday, I'm convinced she would have reached out to me on Thursday (and I'm convinced the date this weekend would still be on).

 

[GoodMan32]

Another mistake. Believing what women tell you. Course it had everything to do with you, wasn't it obvious?

She lost interest plain and simple. Move on and learn from it.

No, it's not obvious her upset demeanor on Wednesday had everything to do with me.

On Tuesday evening, she was all over me about where I wanted to go for dinner this weekend. Then you expect me to believe she lost interest less than 24 hours later? Nuh-uh. No way.

The only thing I've learned from the whole thing is what I mentioned on my previous post. She obviously wasn't in the mood to talk Wednesday. Rather than me reaching out when I hadn't heard from her by lunch time on Wednesday, I should have let her reach out to me when she was in a better mood.

Even if (as some have hinted at) she was beginning to grow tired of "being the man" (as far as asking me where I want to go for dinner this coming weekend), there's no way she'd undergo such a drastic change of heart in less than 24 hours.

 

[GoodMan32]

Being a halfway decent human being dries up women these days to be honest. If you aren’t done highly toxic mother f’er with a criminal record and some personality disorder they lose interest. So many women these days have avoidant attatchment personality types.

Well-said. It really is amazing. Guys that would have been viewed as the lowest of the low 100 years ago (or even 50 years ago) are somehow viewed as the biggest catches today.

 

[GoodMan32]

Why didn't you take her back to your place for sex? Talking after dinner -- good option for nightcap at your place.



You are going to get laid this weekend if you directly pay for sex. Your indirect payment for sex with a dinner didn't work out for you.

As for why I didn't invite her over.

1. I didn't want to look desperate.
2. Since I've mainly relied on escorts to get laid for 8 and a half years now, I've pretty much lost the ability to sense when a woman is dtf (and my sensing skills were never tremendously sharp to begin with).

Regarding the nightcap, I don't have any alcohol at home anyway. For me, consuming alcohol is more of a social thing I do when I'm out (we both had one drink during dinner).

You're right, I'm going to get laid if I directly pay for sex this weekend. The dinner date last weekend ended up costing me about 40 dollars. Even if the dinner date this weekend were still on (and it ended up costing me 40 dollars again), 80 dollars is still cheaper than escorts. That's why I was willing to go the sex-via-dinner route.

With escorts, however, even though they're more expensive, you get a sure thing. Sex-via-dinner is never guaranteed.

 

[pipeman84]

Cracks me up how people here try to find reason and logic for her behavior and blame OP for every minutiae, totally ignoring the other half of the equation - a mid to late 30s woman.
If she was a clinically sane woman in that age range she would've been busy with work/husband/home/children and not stop and talk to a random guy off the street and go to dinner with him.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Cracks me up how people here try to find reason and logic for her behavior and blame OP for every minutiae, totally ignoring the other half of the equation - a mid to late 30s woman.
If she was a clinically sane woman in that age range she would've been busy with work/husband/home/children and not stop and talk to a random guy off the street and go to dinner with him.

crazy women exist at all ages