Gym & grocery store approaches

[SW15]

I really do think that the gym is not the place to start escalating quickly with sexual undertones. I've never heard of a man meeting a women in the gym who goes and fvcks her in the bathroom that same day.

The term "escalating quickly" is subjective. I don't think that asking a woman out for drinks at a bar after a 5-10 minute pleasant gym conversation is considering "escalating quickly". If the conversation is going well, saying something like "you seem cool, let's meet for a drink at X bar at Y time" is too aggressive. If she says yes, then a phone number exchange happens.

Same day sex in a bathroom is very unlikely to happen. I don't think most gym approaching men have that intention.

Everyone in the gym wears earbuds now that doesn't mean anything.

Nearly every female is wearing headphones/earbuds now. Male headphone/earbud wearing is far less common.

Headphone/earbud wearing still means something. It does make a woman less approachable. Most men will have bad results by approaching women wearing headphones/earbuds on the general gym floor.

I think fitness classes are a bit different than being out in the gym floor, since classes are more private, intimate, and less of a sausagefest.

I have done more fitness class approaching than gym floor approaching. Fitness class approaching solves the earbud problem. The ratios are quite good at fitness classes in nearly any class format. 2 to 1 female to male ratios are common and 3 to 1 is possible. The problem with fitness classes is that women are not very sociable after fitness class ends. It's possible to do approaches after a fitness class but it's inefficient even with the spectacular ratios there. Approaching before classes can work too but is usually tougher than after class approaching.

It must be mentioned that some fitness class attendee women have boyfriends/husbands. Over the years, I've tended to go to venues for fitness classes where more unmarried women went than married women. I'm sure that a good portion of the unmarried women that go to fitness classes have boyfriends. That would partially explain why many women are not sociable at fitness classes. A male attending these classes will never know this as the women with boyfriends don't typically announce that they have boyfriends. Many will dart out of classes quickly before they can even be approached or start playing with their smartphones right away at the end of classes. I think the majority of the women I described in the previous sentence have boyfriends but there are unattached women who likely do this as well.

 

[Isildur1]

groccery store is fine , i've haven't ever done gym approaches but i know of wings who've gotten laid by them

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

In my experience, women in the gym will give you IOIs and you 100% can and should capitalize on those. It's not always a common occurance, but it's happened to me enough times to know I'm not imagining it.

I feel it.

But there are a few problems with choosing signals (IOIs).

1. Not every woman will give IOIs.

Sure, there are some anomaly situations, but for the most part, most women just simply aren't wired like that.

2. To make matters even worse; the average guy is not gonna get IOI's from women anyway.

So, to put 1 & 2 in perspective, most women aren't giving guys IOI's..and if they are, you (generally speaking) ain't one of the guys they are giving it to.

3. Even if a woman gives you IOI's, you STILL have to find HER attractive. Suppose you are getting IOI's from fat&ugly women?

I said all that to say, IOI's are great and if you are fortunate to have them thrown your way, definitely seize the moment.

But they don't happen frequent enough to rely heavily on them.

One of the more common things they'll do is "creep" around me, getting in space and line of sight repeatedly when they have no reason to. For instance I was doing squats once in the evening before the gym closed, in a quiet corner of the gym, and some random women came over and started doing curls in the squat rack close to me even though there free weight section was basically empty. Then she "rested" on the bar until the gym closed. I bvtched out like a faggot, but, I'm 99% sure she was hoping I'd talk to her. Women do things like that quite often, giving you those subtle (or not so subtle) IOIs that they want you to talk to them...the same sort of IOIs in any other situation that may be obvious such as looking at you with those puppy dog eyes. One thing they may do is ask for help with a weight, though I'm sure this could easily be misconstrued by a thirsty man so maybe they wouldn't do that. Regardless, I think women who give IOIs are 100% fair game to talk to, but still should be done carefully with the intent to "befriend them" and be gym buddies or something due to the nature of those environments, and not immediately start flirting or asking them out (though I suppose if their IL seems very high, go for it).

I like to move quickly by going for it, especially if she is giving choosing signals.

In regards to your comment about those closed off women - what a hilarious creature they are: they wear hats and noise cancelling earbuds and constantly look down to avert male gazes, but they're only in the gym during peak hours, wear makeup, "sports bras", and skintight leggings scientifically designed to make their butts as large as possible while hiding their gut. They don't want attention while simultaneously wanting attention, you can't make this shvt up...I cannot imagine the cognitive dissonance. As far as those type of women are concerned...you gotta be a real charming mofo Chad to pull that off without looking like an autistic retard.

That shiit is crazy, and a form of gaslighting.

 

[Travel memoir21]

I took the bootcamp challenge during the winter of last year and said hi to all the strangers at Wal Mart and H-E-B here in Texas.

From my observation, most people were friendly and receptive to my approach and I gave them a compliment about what I liked about them. It could be from what they wear and their overall vibe about them.

Most people are friendly, and If they turn out rude, so what? I had one guy cursed me out but he was only one out of hundreds lol.
Now Imagine if you took this approach with the saying hi and just wanting to start a conversation naturally and organically, just go out there man.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I feel it.

But there are a few problems with choosing signals (IOIs).

1. Not every woman will give IOIs.

Sure, there are some anomaly situations, but for the most part, most women just simply aren't wired like that.

2. To make matters even worse; the average guy is not gonna get IOI's from women anyway.


So, to put 1 & 2 in perspective, most women aren't giving guys IOI's..and if they are, you (generally speaking) ain't one of the guys they are giving it to.

I'm making the assumption that the men posting here are not "average guys" that have been with 0-2 women by the time they're 30 and ask for relationship advice about getting out of the friendzone on reddit.

3. Even if a woman gives you IOI's, you STILL have to find HER attractive. Suppose you are getting IOI's from fat&ugly women?

Never happens. I basically never get any interest from "ugly" or even most mid women, as they tend to actually be even more delusional and entitled because don't recognize their own value. More attractive women tend to be more aware of their real value and have the confidence to give men openings.

I said all that to say, IOI's are great and if you are fortunate to have them thrown your way, definitely seize the moment.

But they don't happen frequent enough to rely heavily on them.

Yeah they're not something you should rely on or use as a crutch. I just think in the case of the gym it's a safer option to only talk to women that give you the IOIs or else you might get a bad reputation if you approached them the same way you would in crowded, anonymous environments. But i'm sure there's a way you can do it tactfully with more frequency.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Oh btw...I was going to make a new topic but I'll post it here b/c I don't want people too many people to steal this idea... but more on the subject of venues to meet women outside of normal bars/clubs:

Go to LGBT nightclubs.

There are usually a handful of women there that go to "support" their lesbian/bi friends, and they either won't get hit on or will get hit on by faggy bi men all night so it's not hard to stand out and they won't have their guard up in the same way as a typical nightclub would, plus it's easier to win over her friends since they probably want her to get laid too for supporting them and won't be as likely to c0ckblock you.

Plus, they allow women under 21 so if you're like me and like women around 17-20......it's fair game. I went last night and madeout with a 19yo emo chick with a fat ass and got her blowing up my phone.

 

[SW15]

Go to LGBT nightclubs.

There are usually a handful of women there that go to "support" their lesbian/bi friends, and they either won't get hit on or will get hit on by faggy bi men all night so it's not hard to stand out and they won't have their guard up in the same way as a typical nightclub would, plus it's easier to win over her friends since they probably want her to get laid too for supporting them and won't be as likely to c0ckblock you.

This idea can work.

Many years ago (when I was in my 20s), I went out to an LGBT nightlife venue with multiple people. 2 people in this group that I was with were a lesbian couple.

On that night, I was specifically looking for straight women with gay male friends. I found one and I really hit it off with her.

I had almost no male competition that night.

I think it's best to go to LGBT nightlife venues with any gay or lesbian acquaintances that you might have. A heterosexual male going in there alone or with another heterosexual male is going to be out of place. Very few heterosexual men have LGBT acquaintances/friends to pull off a socially calibrated visit to an LGBT nightlife venue in order to meet the heterosexual women friends of the LGBT crowd. Additionally, most heterosexual men aren't going to go to an LGBT nightlife venue alone. Most heterosexual men don't even like going to conventional, heterosexual nightlife venues alone without any wingmen.

While your idea is good, most men will still need to do more conventional daygame at places like gyms and grocery stores.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

I'm making the assumption that the men posting here are not "average guys" that have been with 0-2 women by the time they're 30 and ask for relationship advice about getting out of the friendzone on reddit.

This forum consists of...

10% Alpha-Don's (like myself).
45% Beta Males
45% Alpha Male wannabes

Never happens. I basically never get any interest from "ugly" or even most mid women, as they tend to actually be even more delusional and entitled because don't recognize their own value. More attractive women tend to be more aware of their real value and have the confidence to give men openings.

Overall, I agree.

But there are some nuances with your point that needs to be unpacked, but we need not get in to it here.

Yeah they're not something you should rely on or use as a crutch. I just think in the case of the gym it's a safer option to only talk to women that give you the IOIs or else you might get a bad reputation if you approached them the same way you would in crowded, anonymous environments. But i'm sure there's a way you can do it tactfully with more frequency.

I agree to a certain extent.

HOWEVER, I just don't like the idea of "I'm gonna wait until she gives me the signal".

I'm more of a "go after it, signal or not" kind of guy.

However, I was more an IOI guy at first (at the gym), but it got to the point that some women were just so attractive that, to HELL with waiting.

But admittedly, the gym is a place where things can get flaky...but outside of the gym, NO EXCUSES.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

This idea can work.

Many years ago (when I was in my 20s), I went out to an LGBT nightlife venue with multiple people. 2 people in this group that I was with were a lesbian couple.

On that night, I was specifically looking for straight women with gay male friends. I found one and I really hit it off with her.

I had almost no male competition that night.

I think it's best to go to LGBT nightlife venues with any gay or lesbian acquaintances that you might have. A heterosexual male going in there alone or with another heterosexual male is going to be out of place. Very few heterosexual men have LGBT acquaintances/friends to pull off a socially calibrated visit to an LGBT nightlife venue in order to meet the heterosexual women friends of the LGBT crowd. Additionally, most heterosexual men aren't going to go to an LGBT nightlife venue alone. Most heterosexual men don't even like going to conventional, heterosexual nightlife venues alone without any wingmen.

While your idea is good, most men will still need to do more conventional daygame at places like gyms and grocery stores.

I need to find a dyke to befriend but I'm not sure that's possible since they tend to hate men. Ig befriending a gay dude could also work since women tend to love gay men...

 

[Guitar_Whizz]

This is more of a general topic for general experiences and discussions about these two environments. I do think they require a different mindset and approach from bars and clubs because women expect to get hit on there, so I think you can use this to your advantage. I know this topic has been discussed a lot, but things change and there's always fresh and newer perspectives on this with our rapidly changing culture and sexual marketplace.

My thoughts:

The gym is a little tricky, since your reputation is at stake a little bit if it's a place you frequent, so you have to do it in a way that's not so "all or nothing" but play the slow game. I think it's most effective to literally just say "hi" and start talking about exercising... you don't need an excuse, you are a man and you like attractive women, and for this reason showing "intention" is just as pointless as any other scenario and it can only backfire here if you come on too strong. That said I do still question if hot women truly understand that the only reason men find them "interesting" is because they're hot, or if they're mostly delusional enough to not understand these men just want to smash - so there's surely a way you need to differentiate yourself from the simps who pretend they don't have a ****. All that is to say, I think there's a bit of a gray area here, but it's pointless to analyze it beyond this.

As far as grocery stores...you can be more direct here and possibly even hit on them but it's probably better to just talk about groceries...since, ya know, you're in a grocery store. In my case, I know so much about food ingredients that I can rant about that alone and I do think women appreciate a learned man that can demonstrate some competence in a way that's not arrogant. But I do think a more direct approach, for instance commenting on their appearance, isn't necessarily a bad idea but it needs to be calibrated more.

Any thoughts on this? How do you handle approaches in either of these environments?

Grocery stores, I'm direct all the way. I've had so much success picking up women in grocery stores from direct approaches over the years.

Definitely DO NOT go indirect and start talking about food. That's not the way to do it.

 

[SW15]

I need to find a dyke to befriend but I'm not sure that's possible since they tend to hate men.

I think friendships between lesbian women and heterosexual men are uncommon.

befriending a gay dude could also work since women tend to love gay men...

I also don't think friendships between homosexual men and heterosexual men are common.

Women who wear hats are generally disinterested in meeting new women.

Did you mean meet new men or women?

That was a typo. I meant women meeting new men. Most hat wearing women aren't very motivated to meet women for regular friendship purposes either, but that's a topic outside of the focus of this thread and this forum.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

yeah i prefer environments where your reputation is much less at risk or much less risk of getting kicked out/banned

 

[SW15]

I'm friendly with my neighbours. I have gay neighbours and lesbian neighbours across the courtyard. They're probably my nicest neighbours.

I think that judgmental bias hinders friendships for most people. If you stop caring what other people do in their bedroom, everyone is much easier to get along with.

When heterosexual males have gay and lesbian neighbors, they are generally friendly with their neighbors. If they are outgoing enough, they will talk to them. None of this means that a friendship will form between the gay/lesbian person and the heterosexual male. I've rarely observed these friendships. I think these friendships don't form because there's often a lack of common interests.

All kinds of shops are great for picking up women. Women like shopping, so it's the easiest place to find women killing time browsing the vintage clothes store and the ecological supermarket. On top of that, most women either shop alone or with just a friend, not with whole groups, and it much easier to strike up a conversation with 1-2 women than with 4-5.

Yes, there are multiple retail options for pickup.

Mall game has been discussed a lot in the seduction space. I think mall game has been practiced less in recent years as compared to 10-20 years ago. All non-bar stranger approaching is a bit of a niche activity. The typical guy now is even less motivated to do mall game as compared to 10-20 years ago.

Online shopping has had an effect on the mall space more than the grocery store space. There are also home workouts on the internet in various forms but I don't think they've affected gyms as much as online shopping has affected malls.

Bookstores are an option. I like reading and books, so I like bookstore game.

A lot of non-bar approaching is well suited for a man going out in the real world alone with no wingman. Approaching groups of female strangers in a bar with no wingman is going to be more of a challenge. In non-bar approaching, it is more likely that a man alone can approach a woman alone in some setting.

In a non-bar setting, I would rather approach a woman who is alone than one who is with a friend.

In a non-bar setting, female groups of 2 are going to be more challenging than the solo female for a solo male. When a solo male approaches 2 women in any non-bar setting, he will likely be more interested in one woman than the other and/or have a better conversational connection with one of the women. The other woman will tend to be bored. As a result, she might block the interaction to some extent. Her impatience might shorten the conversation, not letting it develop long enough to end up in an asking out.

Another thing is that (grocery) shops are full of props you can use to open conversations. And actually, you don't have to go either direct or indirect. Unless you work in the store as an employee, women will realise that you're approaching them.

I tend to go more indirect in grocery stores and malls. Both indirect and direct can work in stores.

Going direct on streets, walking/hiking paths, or in parks is better than going direct in stores.

I use more indirect openers than direct openers.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

Grocery stores, I'm direct all the way. I've had so much success picking up women in grocery stores from direct approaches over the years.

When you go direct, your eyes become fire and you immediately start to grow a beard..and your voice gets deeper.

You are becoming an Apex of a man.

Bro, yesterday (no bullshiit), outside of the gym I went direct on a latina woman.

She interpreted my directness as being "aggressive".

She playfully asked, "Why you gotta be so aggressive, dang?".

Definitely DO NOT go indirect and start talking about food. That's not the way to do it.

Nah, it's not the way to do it.

"Excuse me, miss. Do you think this is best cooked in a slow cooker, or an air fryer"?

Beta shiit!!

 

[SW15]

Definitely DO NOT go indirect and start talking about food. That's not the way to do it.

"Excuse me, miss. Do you think this is best cooked in a slow cooker, or an air fryer"?

Beta shiit!!

I would never use that line that @We_ArE_VeNOM mentioned. That is far too beta.

In "Day Bang", the standard grocery store opener was to ask "is that good?" about something in a woman's grocery basket/cart or to make an observation about a basket/cart item to start a conversation. Then, you'd tell a story to drop some bait, see if she was interested and cycle through GALNUC to ask a woman out on a date.

I have opened women in grocery stores about basket/cart items. I've also made observations about clothes they are wearing to start conversations.

If you get some good IOIs from strong eye contact and smiling, then going indirect or direct will matter less as she's already interested. The only requirement then is to not look socially awkward.

The main advantage about going indirect in a grocery store is plausible deniability in case you are reported to a store employee for harassment on approaches. That's a rare situation because almost no woman will report a man for harassment on an indirect opener.

 

[SW15]

Oh, yeah, that was the name. Day Bang. Where the PUA author advised to act like as senile octogenarian. Funniest crap I read in a long time. Most PUA are deluded, but that guy was really lost.

"Day Bang" taught me how to do daygame. I read "Day Bang" not long after it came out in 2011 and it helped me transition from a primarily nightlife venue approacher to a non-bar approacher.

The London Daygame Model is another approach to daygame. Open, Stack, Vibe, Invest, Close.

London Daygame Model was based on trying to apply Mystery Method to non-bar approaching. Mystery himself said that Mystery Method was usable in non-bar settings in that book but never explained how it would be done.

I don't think a typical guy knows much about how to approach women in non-bar settings.

As far back as 2005, I had heard that guys were approaching women in yoga classes. Prior to Day Bang in 2011, I never figured how to create non-bar approaches out of thin air.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

.

Good analysis, as usual. @SW15

First off, let me just say; if indirect has/is paying dividends for you, then continue to use it.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

In "Day Bang", the standard grocery store opener was to ask "is that good?" about something in a woman's grocery basket/cart or to make an observation about a basket/cart item to start a conversation. Then, you'd tell a story to drop some bait, see if she was interested and cycle through GALNUC to ask a woman out on a date.

That is a nice, "Cold, Capri Sun on a hot day" approach lol.

I ain't mad at it.

But the reasons I don't care for that approach are as follows..

1. It is dishonest: Yes, it is a light form of dishonesty.

Why?

Because I don't really care about whether the items in her cart is good. So why pretend like I do?

Now, the difference between you and I is, in that same scenario: you will make a comment about something in her cart.

As for me, I will make a comment about her shirt (which you mentioned below ).

"Excuse me miss, I like your shirt"..while signaling to her chest (since I love titties).

This is 100% pure honesty, and the focus of the conversation is right where I want it to be; on her chest.

Then, with adrenaline pumping, I'll anticipate her response and then I'm asking if she is single and can I give her my #.

Her cart items are of no interest to me, but her chest is..so that's where my focus will be.
......

2. Feelings matter: Yes. Feelings matter.

Not her feelings, but my feelings.

With your approach, let's say you spent X amount of time talking about the items in her cart, which leads to subtopics like cooking and food prep.

You think the convo is going well, so you ask her out on a date.

Her: Thank you, but I'm not looking for anyone at the moment.

If this happened to me, I would feel like I wasted time talking to a woman that was never genuinely interested in me (in that manner).

I would walk away disappointed, and upset.

But with the direct approach, even though the rejection still disappointing, I walk away with my head held high and with a sense of pride.

ARC pointed this out, and it's very true.

The feeling(s) you have once you walk away from being rejected, that shiit matters.

Anytime I get rejected and can still walk away with a sense of pride and dignity, despite the disappointment, is the approach that I'd rather go for.

Because the rejections are coming, it is how you feel after the rejections...that is the second element to being an Apex, on the flip side.
......
3. Quick rejections: Piggy backing on #2, I just simply like my rejections quick.

4. Hard to go back: Once you've experienced success with direct approach, it's hard to go back to indirect.

It's like putting your pride & dignity to the side and becoming a lesser man. That's honestly how I feel.

Like going from making $25/hr to $18/hr. Hard to go back.
......

I have opened women in grocery stores about basket/cart items. I've also made observations about clothes they are wearing to start conversations.

There are nuances to the clothes thing, of which we take different angles..but nevertheless, I like.

If you get some good IOIs from strong eye contact and smiling, then going indirect or direct will matter less as she's already interested. The only requirement then is to not look socially awkward.

Mannn, IOIs are cool but they can be so damn misleading.

The main advantage about going indirect in a grocery store is plausible deniability in case you are reported to a store employee for harassment on approaches. That's a rare situation because almost no woman will report a man for harassment on an indirect opener.

I agree. Indirect always leaves you a way out, if need be.

 

[SW15]

Yeah, that seems to be a problem for most younger guys. Social skills require interaction, and I guess modern life for many people is bereft of person-to-person interaction.

The last 2 generations (Gen Y/Millennials and Gen Z/Zoomers) have had poor social skills. Both generations have been known for their increasing reliance upon tech for social interactions.

The oldest Millennials were on the leading edge of this. The oldest Millennials have been turning 40 for the last few years. There are Millennials in their late 30s/early 40s now who never developed good person-to-person interaction skills. Social media and dating website technology came up in the 2000s as they were hitting formative adult years.

London Daygame Model

Yeah, I read that too. Torero. Still felt forced, but it wasn't as deluded as the Day Bang stuff.

Tom Torero and Nick Krauser are most associated with the London Daygame Model. Troy Francis and James Tusk also emerged from that London pickup scene and were associated with daygaming in London.

London has a good scene for street approaching. Other European cities like Paris, Amsterdam, and Prague have sufficient foot traffic and are set up for street approaching. Most USA cities are not well set up for pure street approaching. There are environment similar to pure street approaching in some USA cities. Dallas' Katy Trail is a walking path that could mimic street approaching. Below is a daygame beginner doing Katy Trail approaches in Dallas. I've linked from the point in the video where the Katy Trail approaches start until the end of the video.

The London Daygame Model could be used in environments like the gym and the grocery store. Open Stack Vibe Invest Close is a model that works in all non-bar settings.

 

[SW15]

"Excuse me miss, I like your shirt"..while signaling to her chest (since I love titties).

This is 100% pure honesty, and the focus of the conversation is right where I want it to be; on her chest.

The grocery store is the venue where I have gotten the most dates.

At first after reading "Day Bang", I tended to use the "is that good?" opener followed by GALNUC. I thought it was a good starting point.

As I developed more skill in approaching, I tended to improvise more and use more creative approaches. I tend to more environmental approaches in grocery stores now and talk about a woman's outfit now more than the grocery basket routine.

Sometimes a shirt with words or a picture on it will catch my attention. College alumni t-shirts and sweatshirts are good for this. Shirts from a specific place will do it as well. I can start a conversation based on what she's wearing very easily.

Now, the only time I use the grocery item opener is if something she has in a grocery basket/cart is something that gets my attention for some reason, I am genuinely curious about it, and she's at least somewhat attractive.

 

[SW15]

Probably part of why I recognised its usability. I've lived in all those cities and the street game is comparable.

New York City is the best USA city for street game. Some older USA cities like Boston, Chicago, and Philadelphia have street game options.

Miami has a couple of neighborhoods where street game is an option, like Brickell and South Beach. Playing with Fire (YouTube content creator) does street approaching in Miami.

In Dallas, there are street approaching options in Deep Ellum and off of McKinney in Uptown. However, Uptown has declined in recent years and gotten less safe. Deep Ellum has always had a bit of a creepy vibe and some sketchy looking people around there. Downtown Dallas has a lot of homeless and sketchy looking people on the street. It somewhat limits foot traffic and women's openness to talking to random men there.

The Katy Trail is the least sketchy place in Dallas to do outdoor approaching. That's a designated walking path and not pure street game. There are a couple of parks in Dallas where approaching could happen. Park game is very hit or miss in Dallas, with more missing.

Gym and grocery store daygame is more viable in Dallas than most of the outdoor options, with the exception of Katy.

Venue selection is critical here as you want to choose a grocery store where your target market woman tends to shop. There's nothing unique about grocery store game in Dallas other than the fact that most women are receptive due to weak social circles.

Gym and grocery store daygame can happen almost anywhere.