Gym & grocery store approaches

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

Any thoughts on this? How do you handle approaches in either of these environments?

Great question..

Gyms: I am probably the biggest advocate of cold approach on this forum...and I believe in cold approaching in ANY venue, place, or establishment and under almost ANY circumstance.

But even with that said, I used to shy away from gym approaches because..

1. Almost every woman at the gym is wearing earbuds.

2. Should the woman reject you, there is usually an awkwardness the next time you see her there, which I'd rather not have.

Nowadays, I don't care about either one, I approach regardless.

Bouncing titties on treadmills and hard nipples through sports bras is too overwhelming for me not to shoot my shot.
....

Grocery stores: Are in my opinion, the single most BEST places for daygame.

90% of my cold approaches take place inside grocery stores, or in the parking lots of grocery stores.

Sometimes, I frequent grocery stores just to cold approach.

....

Both the gym and grocery stores are great places to cold approach.

 

[SW15]

Grocery stores: Are in my opinion, the single most BEST places for daygame.

I agree with this. I have arranged the most dates at the grocery store as compared to other typical daygaming venues. It is likely my favorite traditional daygame venue for approaching.

I find it more enjoyable than doing approaches at the mall.

I find it more enjoyable than doing approaches outdoors. Although outdoor approaching is free, it has some serious downsides. Earbuds are the main downside. A lot of women aren't as receptive to outdoor approaching anymore.

In 2012, Roosh called street approaching the most difficult approach venue.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160331043049/http://www.rooshv.com/how-to-pick-up-girls-on-the-street

Park and walking/hiking path approaching are similar to street game. There isn't much pure street game in my city (or a lot of USA cities) but park and path game is more common. Park and path game has a lot of the similar downsides of street game.

Grocery store game is good for a lot of reasons. Few women use earbuds in the grocery store, though I noticed in the late 2010s it picked up for a bit. Women are more receptive to being approached there. I've tended to start more conversations through indirect methods in grocery stores, such as an environmental observation where I think you've gone more direct.

Sometimes, I frequent grocery stores just to cold approach.

During the 2010s, I used to linger in grocery stores a little bit longer when doing approaches. I did longer approach sessions in the grocery store then. The most viable way to do grocery store approaching is to linger in the store for a bit when grocery shopping to look for approach targets. In the midst of a normal timeline for grocery shopping (maybe 20 minutes in store), it is less likely that you'll find good targets. If a grocery store session is 1 hour +, then you can find more targets.

Gyms: I am probably the biggest advocate of cold approach on this forum...and I believe in cold approaching in ANY venue, place, or establishment and under almost ANY circumstance.

But even with that said, I used to shy away from gym approaches because..

1. Almost every woman at the gym is wearing earbuds.

2. Should the woman reject you, there is usually an awkwardness the next time you see her there, which I'd rather not have.

I dislike the general gym floor for approaching, though there are some attractive women in many gyms. Some gyms are better than others for attracting hotties.

The fitness class method is an alternative with pros and cons I've highlighted.

I like to avoid awkwardness as well. There's always the Classpass or secondary facility option I've mentioned to change up where you go and avoid awkwardness.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Gyms: I am probably the biggest advocate of cold approach on this forum...and I believe in cold approaching in ANY venue, place, or establishment and under almost ANY circumstance.

But even with that said, I used to shy away from gym approaches because..

1. Almost every woman at the gym is wearing earbuds.

2. Should the woman reject you, there is usually an awkwardness the next time you see her there, which I'd rather not have.

Nowadays, I don't care about either one, I approach regardless.

Bouncing titties on treadmills and hard nipples through sports bras is too overwhelming for me not to shoot my shot.

In my experience, women in the gym will give you IOIs and you 100% can and should capitalize on those. It's not always a common occurance, but it's happened to me enough times to know I'm not imagining it. One of the more common things they'll do is "creep" around me, getting in space and line of sight repeatedly when they have no reason to. For instance I was doing squats once in the evening before the gym closed, in a quiet corner of the gym, and some random women came over and started doing curls in the squat rack close to me even though there free weight section was basically empty. Then she "rested" on the bar until the gym closed. I bvtched out like a faggot, but, I'm 99% sure she was hoping I'd talk to her. Women do things like that quite often, giving you those subtle (or not so subtle) IOIs that they want you to talk to them...the same sort of IOIs in any other situation that may be obvious such as looking at you with those puppy dog eyes. One thing they may do is ask for help with a weight, though I'm sure this could easily be misconstrued by a thirsty man so maybe they wouldn't do that. Regardless, I think women who give IOIs are 100% fair game to talk to, but still should be done carefully with the intent to "befriend them" and be gym buddies or something due to the nature of those environments, and not immediately start flirting or asking them out (though I suppose if their IL seems very high, go for it).

In regards to your comment about those closed off women - what a hilarious creature they are: they wear hats and noise cancelling earbuds and constantly look down to avert male gazes, but they're only in the gym during peak hours, wear makeup, "sports bras", and skintight leggings scientifically designed to make their butts as large as possible while hiding their gut. They don't want attention while simultaneously wanting attention, you can't make this shvt up...I cannot imagine the cognitive dissonance. As far as those type of women are concerned...you gotta be a real charming mofo Chad to pull that off without looking like an autistic retard.

 

[SW15]

women who wear hats.

Women who wear hats are generally disinterested in meeting new women. This is true in gyms, grocery stores, and outdoors.

For the women who wear hats and noise cancelling earbuds, yeah...you gotta be a real charming mofo to pull that off without looking like an autistic retard.

That's the worst combination for a gym approach target.

In my experience though, women in the gym who will give you IOIs and you 100% can and should capitalize on those. It's not always super common but it's happened enough times to know I'm not imagining it.

Most women are wearing earbuds now on the general gym floor and not giving IOIs. It's more likely to happen if you are a top tier Chad type.

One of the more common things they'll do is "creep" around me, getting in your space and line of sight repeatedly when they have no reason to. For instance I was doing squats once in the evening before the gym closed, in a quiet corner of the gym, and some random women came over and started doing curls in the squat rack close to me even though there free weight section was basically empty. Then she "rested" on the bar until the gym closed. I bvtched out like a faggot, but, I'm 99% sure she was hoping I'd talk to her. Women do things like that quite often, giving you those subtle (or not so subtle) IOIs that they want you to talk to them.

That can happen. I've rarely seen that in my main gym in recent years, but I know it can happen. My main gym is mostly unmarried people too. I think a lot of people in my gym are in boyfriend-girlfriend relationships.

I think those women are 100% fair game to talk to, but still should be done carefully with the intent to "befriend them" and be gym buddies or something due to the nature of those environments, and not immediately start flirting or asking them out (though I suppose if their IL seems very high, go for it).

I disagree. I would have no interest in "gym buddies". If I'm approaching a woman, I'm doing it with romantic/sexual intent.

This is why I prefer the Classpass method or short term class package at a standalone studio method. I can go to a class, avoid earbuds, chat up a woman after class, and invite her to get together. If the conversation goes well, I have a date. If I get a direct rejection, I won't be back at that place for a bit and won't see her. It mixes up where I go to do approaches.

I will do approaches in my primary gym and at classes at my primary gym but I prefer the methods above. Some of this depends on how much a man likes his primary gym and his willingness to change gyms if things do get awkward. Things can get awkward over one of the following instances.

• An approach that doesn't result in a date and a hard, direct no rejection. 'Soft' rejections (a conversation that goes nowhere without a social invitation) usually won't cause awkwardness
• A situation where there's 1-2 dates, no sex, and no extended relationships. It's going to be awkward to see her at the gym after that.
• A casual sex relationship that burns out. This will lead one or both people to change gyms.
• A longer term committed relationship that fails. This will lead one or both people to change gyms.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I disagree. I would have no interest in "gym buddies". If I'm approaching a woman, I'm doing it with romantic/sexual intent.

This is why I prefer the Classpass method or short term class package at a standalone studio method. I can go to a class, avoid earbuds, chat up a woman after class, and invite her to get together. If the conversation goes well, I have a date. If I get a direct rejection, I won't be back at that place for a bit and won't see her. It mixes up where I go to do approaches.

I think fitness classes are a bit different than being out in the gym floor, since classes are more private, intimate, and less of a sausagefest. While I don't think hiding your intention is good, I really do think that the gym is not the place to start escalating quickly with sexual undertones, though I'm not saying you shouldn't. I've never heard of a man meeting a women in the gym who goes and fvcks her in the bathroom that same day.

Women who wear hats are generally disinterested in meeting new women. This is true in gyms, grocery stores, and outdoors.

Did you mean meet new men or women? In either case, like anywhere else, they do this either to make other women jealous, or to get attention from men, because there's no other reason for them to wear makeup and dress like that at the gym. Either they still want attention and don't want men to shoot their shot, or they're holding out for the top tier gigaChad/gigaTyrone to talk to them and basically closing themselves off to any man who doesn't have the balls to talk to them.

Most women are wearing earbuds now on the general gym floor and not giving IOIs. It's more likely to happen if you are a top tier Chad type

Everyone in the gym wears earbuds now that doesn't mean anything. IOIs are more subtle in the gym and it's possible the men are just clueless about them but yes I'm not implying every man should expect them, but I don't think you need to be a giga chad to receive IOIs either. Women "creeping" around you repeatedly is absolutely not something they would do on accident. Even if they're doing it "for attention" you just need to ask yourself if they'd still be seeking attention from a homeless man or a fat and short middle aged Hispanic man. Almost every behavior of women can be explained by asking "would they do this to a bum?" or "would they do this to Drake?"

 

[SW15]

I really do think that the gym is not the place to start escalating quickly with sexual undertones. I've never heard of a man meeting a women in the gym who goes and fvcks her in the bathroom that same day.

The term "escalating quickly" is subjective. I don't think that asking a woman out for drinks at a bar after a 5-10 minute pleasant gym conversation is considering "escalating quickly". If the conversation is going well, saying something like "you seem cool, let's meet for a drink at X bar at Y time" is too aggressive. If she says yes, then a phone number exchange happens.

Same day sex in a bathroom is very unlikely to happen. I don't think most gym approaching men have that intention.

Everyone in the gym wears earbuds now that doesn't mean anything.

Nearly every female is wearing headphones/earbuds now. Male headphone/earbud wearing is far less common.

Headphone/earbud wearing still means something. It does make a woman less approachable. Most men will have bad results by approaching women wearing headphones/earbuds on the general gym floor.

I think fitness classes are a bit different than being out in the gym floor, since classes are more private, intimate, and less of a sausagefest.

I have done more fitness class approaching than gym floor approaching. Fitness class approaching solves the earbud problem. The ratios are quite good at fitness classes in nearly any class format. 2 to 1 female to male ratios are common and 3 to 1 is possible. The problem with fitness classes is that women are not very sociable after fitness class ends. It's possible to do approaches after a fitness class but it's inefficient even with the spectacular ratios there. Approaching before classes can work too but is usually tougher than after class approaching.

It must be mentioned that some fitness class attendee women have boyfriends/husbands. Over the years, I've tended to go to venues for fitness classes where more unmarried women went than married women. I'm sure that a good portion of the unmarried women that go to fitness classes have boyfriends. That would partially explain why many women are not sociable at fitness classes. A male attending these classes will never know this as the women with boyfriends don't typically announce that they have boyfriends. Many will dart out of classes quickly before they can even be approached or start playing with their smartphones right away at the end of classes. I think the majority of the women I described in the previous sentence have boyfriends but there are unattached women who likely do this as well.

 

[Isildur1]

groccery store is fine , i've haven't ever done gym approaches but i know of wings who've gotten laid by them

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

In my experience, women in the gym will give you IOIs and you 100% can and should capitalize on those. It's not always a common occurance, but it's happened to me enough times to know I'm not imagining it.

I feel it.

But there are a few problems with choosing signals (IOIs).

1. Not every woman will give IOIs.

Sure, there are some anomaly situations, but for the most part, most women just simply aren't wired like that.

2. To make matters even worse; the average guy is not gonna get IOI's from women anyway.

So, to put 1 & 2 in perspective, most women aren't giving guys IOI's..and if they are, you (generally speaking) ain't one of the guys they are giving it to.

3. Even if a woman gives you IOI's, you STILL have to find HER attractive. Suppose you are getting IOI's from fat&ugly women?

I said all that to say, IOI's are great and if you are fortunate to have them thrown your way, definitely seize the moment.

But they don't happen frequent enough to rely heavily on them.

One of the more common things they'll do is "creep" around me, getting in space and line of sight repeatedly when they have no reason to. For instance I was doing squats once in the evening before the gym closed, in a quiet corner of the gym, and some random women came over and started doing curls in the squat rack close to me even though there free weight section was basically empty. Then she "rested" on the bar until the gym closed. I bvtched out like a faggot, but, I'm 99% sure she was hoping I'd talk to her. Women do things like that quite often, giving you those subtle (or not so subtle) IOIs that they want you to talk to them...the same sort of IOIs in any other situation that may be obvious such as looking at you with those puppy dog eyes. One thing they may do is ask for help with a weight, though I'm sure this could easily be misconstrued by a thirsty man so maybe they wouldn't do that. Regardless, I think women who give IOIs are 100% fair game to talk to, but still should be done carefully with the intent to "befriend them" and be gym buddies or something due to the nature of those environments, and not immediately start flirting or asking them out (though I suppose if their IL seems very high, go for it).

I like to move quickly by going for it, especially if she is giving choosing signals.

In regards to your comment about those closed off women - what a hilarious creature they are: they wear hats and noise cancelling earbuds and constantly look down to avert male gazes, but they're only in the gym during peak hours, wear makeup, "sports bras", and skintight leggings scientifically designed to make their butts as large as possible while hiding their gut. They don't want attention while simultaneously wanting attention, you can't make this shvt up...I cannot imagine the cognitive dissonance. As far as those type of women are concerned...you gotta be a real charming mofo Chad to pull that off without looking like an autistic retard.

That shiit is crazy, and a form of gaslighting.

 

[Travel memoir21]

I took the bootcamp challenge during the winter of last year and said hi to all the strangers at Wal Mart and H-E-B here in Texas.

From my observation, most people were friendly and receptive to my approach and I gave them a compliment about what I liked about them. It could be from what they wear and their overall vibe about them.

Most people are friendly, and If they turn out rude, so what? I had one guy cursed me out but he was only one out of hundreds lol.
Now Imagine if you took this approach with the saying hi and just wanting to start a conversation naturally and organically, just go out there man.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I feel it.

But there are a few problems with choosing signals (IOIs).

1. Not every woman will give IOIs.

Sure, there are some anomaly situations, but for the most part, most women just simply aren't wired like that.

2. To make matters even worse; the average guy is not gonna get IOI's from women anyway.


So, to put 1 & 2 in perspective, most women aren't giving guys IOI's..and if they are, you (generally speaking) ain't one of the guys they are giving it to.

I'm making the assumption that the men posting here are not "average guys" that have been with 0-2 women by the time they're 30 and ask for relationship advice about getting out of the friendzone on reddit.

3. Even if a woman gives you IOI's, you STILL have to find HER attractive. Suppose you are getting IOI's from fat&ugly women?

Never happens. I basically never get any interest from "ugly" or even most mid women, as they tend to actually be even more delusional and entitled because don't recognize their own value. More attractive women tend to be more aware of their real value and have the confidence to give men openings.

I said all that to say, IOI's are great and if you are fortunate to have them thrown your way, definitely seize the moment.

But they don't happen frequent enough to rely heavily on them.

Yeah they're not something you should rely on or use as a crutch. I just think in the case of the gym it's a safer option to only talk to women that give you the IOIs or else you might get a bad reputation if you approached them the same way you would in crowded, anonymous environments. But i'm sure there's a way you can do it tactfully with more frequency.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Oh btw...I was going to make a new topic but I'll post it here b/c I don't want people too many people to steal this idea... but more on the subject of venues to meet women outside of normal bars/clubs:

Go to LGBT nightclubs.

There are usually a handful of women there that go to "support" their lesbian/bi friends, and they either won't get hit on or will get hit on by faggy bi men all night so it's not hard to stand out and they won't have their guard up in the same way as a typical nightclub would, plus it's easier to win over her friends since they probably want her to get laid too for supporting them and won't be as likely to c0ckblock you.

Plus, they allow women under 21 so if you're like me and like women around 17-20......it's fair game. I went last night and madeout with a 19yo emo chick with a fat ass and got her blowing up my phone.

 

[SW15]

Go to LGBT nightclubs.

There are usually a handful of women there that go to "support" their lesbian/bi friends, and they either won't get hit on or will get hit on by faggy bi men all night so it's not hard to stand out and they won't have their guard up in the same way as a typical nightclub would, plus it's easier to win over her friends since they probably want her to get laid too for supporting them and won't be as likely to c0ckblock you.

This idea can work.

Many years ago (when I was in my 20s), I went out to an LGBT nightlife venue with multiple people. 2 people in this group that I was with were a lesbian couple.

On that night, I was specifically looking for straight women with gay male friends. I found one and I really hit it off with her.

I had almost no male competition that night.

I think it's best to go to LGBT nightlife venues with any gay or lesbian acquaintances that you might have. A heterosexual male going in there alone or with another heterosexual male is going to be out of place. Very few heterosexual men have LGBT acquaintances/friends to pull off a socially calibrated visit to an LGBT nightlife venue in order to meet the heterosexual women friends of the LGBT crowd. Additionally, most heterosexual men aren't going to go to an LGBT nightlife venue alone. Most heterosexual men don't even like going to conventional, heterosexual nightlife venues alone without any wingmen.

While your idea is good, most men will still need to do more conventional daygame at places like gyms and grocery stores.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

I'm making the assumption that the men posting here are not "average guys" that have been with 0-2 women by the time they're 30 and ask for relationship advice about getting out of the friendzone on reddit.

This forum consists of...

10% Alpha-Don's (like myself).
45% Beta Males
45% Alpha Male wannabes

Never happens. I basically never get any interest from "ugly" or even most mid women, as they tend to actually be even more delusional and entitled because don't recognize their own value. More attractive women tend to be more aware of their real value and have the confidence to give men openings.

Overall, I agree.

But there are some nuances with your point that needs to be unpacked, but we need not get in to it here.

Yeah they're not something you should rely on or use as a crutch. I just think in the case of the gym it's a safer option to only talk to women that give you the IOIs or else you might get a bad reputation if you approached them the same way you would in crowded, anonymous environments. But i'm sure there's a way you can do it tactfully with more frequency.

I agree to a certain extent.

HOWEVER, I just don't like the idea of "I'm gonna wait until she gives me the signal".

I'm more of a "go after it, signal or not" kind of guy.

However, I was more an IOI guy at first (at the gym), but it got to the point that some women were just so attractive that, to HELL with waiting.

But admittedly, the gym is a place where things can get flaky...but outside of the gym, NO EXCUSES.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

This idea can work.

Many years ago (when I was in my 20s), I went out to an LGBT nightlife venue with multiple people. 2 people in this group that I was with were a lesbian couple.

On that night, I was specifically looking for straight women with gay male friends. I found one and I really hit it off with her.

I had almost no male competition that night.

I think it's best to go to LGBT nightlife venues with any gay or lesbian acquaintances that you might have. A heterosexual male going in there alone or with another heterosexual male is going to be out of place. Very few heterosexual men have LGBT acquaintances/friends to pull off a socially calibrated visit to an LGBT nightlife venue in order to meet the heterosexual women friends of the LGBT crowd. Additionally, most heterosexual men aren't going to go to an LGBT nightlife venue alone. Most heterosexual men don't even like going to conventional, heterosexual nightlife venues alone without any wingmen.

While your idea is good, most men will still need to do more conventional daygame at places like gyms and grocery stores.

I need to find a dyke to befriend but I'm not sure that's possible since they tend to hate men. Ig befriending a gay dude could also work since women tend to love gay men...

 

[Guitar_Whizz]

This is more of a general topic for general experiences and discussions about these two environments. I do think they require a different mindset and approach from bars and clubs because women expect to get hit on there, so I think you can use this to your advantage. I know this topic has been discussed a lot, but things change and there's always fresh and newer perspectives on this with our rapidly changing culture and sexual marketplace.

My thoughts:

The gym is a little tricky, since your reputation is at stake a little bit if it's a place you frequent, so you have to do it in a way that's not so "all or nothing" but play the slow game. I think it's most effective to literally just say "hi" and start talking about exercising... you don't need an excuse, you are a man and you like attractive women, and for this reason showing "intention" is just as pointless as any other scenario and it can only backfire here if you come on too strong. That said I do still question if hot women truly understand that the only reason men find them "interesting" is because they're hot, or if they're mostly delusional enough to not understand these men just want to smash - so there's surely a way you need to differentiate yourself from the simps who pretend they don't have a ****. All that is to say, I think there's a bit of a gray area here, but it's pointless to analyze it beyond this.

As far as grocery stores...you can be more direct here and possibly even hit on them but it's probably better to just talk about groceries...since, ya know, you're in a grocery store. In my case, I know so much about food ingredients that I can rant about that alone and I do think women appreciate a learned man that can demonstrate some competence in a way that's not arrogant. But I do think a more direct approach, for instance commenting on their appearance, isn't necessarily a bad idea but it needs to be calibrated more.

Any thoughts on this? How do you handle approaches in either of these environments?

Grocery stores, I'm direct all the way. I've had so much success picking up women in grocery stores from direct approaches over the years.

Definitely DO NOT go indirect and start talking about food. That's not the way to do it.

 

[SW15]

I need to find a dyke to befriend but I'm not sure that's possible since they tend to hate men.

I think friendships between lesbian women and heterosexual men are uncommon.

befriending a gay dude could also work since women tend to love gay men...

I also don't think friendships between homosexual men and heterosexual men are common.

Women who wear hats are generally disinterested in meeting new women.

Did you mean meet new men or women?

That was a typo. I meant women meeting new men. Most hat wearing women aren't very motivated to meet women for regular friendship purposes either, but that's a topic outside of the focus of this thread and this forum.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

yeah i prefer environments where your reputation is much less at risk or much less risk of getting kicked out/banned

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I think friendships between lesbian women and heterosexual men are uncommon.
I also don't think friendships between homosexual men and heterosexual men are common.

I'm friendly with my neighbours. I have gay neighbours and lesbian neighbours across the courtyard. They're probably my nicest neighbours. Plus I grew up with artist parents and am involved with several creative/artistic groups in the city, which by their nature have a lot of gay involvement.
I think that judgmental bias hinders friendships for most people. If you stop caring what other people do in their bedroom, everyone is much easier to get along with.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Definitely DO NOT go indirect and start talking about food. That's not the way to do it.

You mean like that PUA guy that pretends to be an old senile fart when chatting up women? That's so messed up. How in the hell can you sexualise a conversation after that? "I want you to change my diaper"?

Grocery stores, I'm direct all the way. I've had so much success picking up women in grocery stores from direct approaches over the years.

All kinds of shops are great for picking up women. Women like shopping, so it's the easiest place to find women killing time browsing the vintage clothes store and the ecological supermarket. On top of that, most women either shop alone or with just a friend, not with whole groups, and it much easier to strike up a conversation with 1-2 women than with 4-5.
Another thing is that (grocery) shops are full of props you can use to open conversations. And actually, you don't have to go either direct or indirect. Unless you work in the store as an employee, women will realise that you're approaching them.

 

[SW15]

I'm friendly with my neighbours. I have gay neighbours and lesbian neighbours across the courtyard. They're probably my nicest neighbours.

I think that judgmental bias hinders friendships for most people. If you stop caring what other people do in their bedroom, everyone is much easier to get along with.

When heterosexual males have gay and lesbian neighbors, they are generally friendly with their neighbors. If they are outgoing enough, they will talk to them. None of this means that a friendship will form between the gay/lesbian person and the heterosexual male. I've rarely observed these friendships. I think these friendships don't form because there's often a lack of common interests.

All kinds of shops are great for picking up women. Women like shopping, so it's the easiest place to find women killing time browsing the vintage clothes store and the ecological supermarket. On top of that, most women either shop alone or with just a friend, not with whole groups, and it much easier to strike up a conversation with 1-2 women than with 4-5.

Yes, there are multiple retail options for pickup.

Mall game has been discussed a lot in the seduction space. I think mall game has been practiced less in recent years as compared to 10-20 years ago. All non-bar stranger approaching is a bit of a niche activity. The typical guy now is even less motivated to do mall game as compared to 10-20 years ago.

Online shopping has had an effect on the mall space more than the grocery store space. There are also home workouts on the internet in various forms but I don't think they've affected gyms as much as online shopping has affected malls.

Bookstores are an option. I like reading and books, so I like bookstore game.

A lot of non-bar approaching is well suited for a man going out in the real world alone with no wingman. Approaching groups of female strangers in a bar with no wingman is going to be more of a challenge. In non-bar approaching, it is more likely that a man alone can approach a woman alone in some setting.

In a non-bar setting, I would rather approach a woman who is alone than one who is with a friend.

In a non-bar setting, female groups of 2 are going to be more challenging than the solo female for a solo male. When a solo male approaches 2 women in any non-bar setting, he will likely be more interested in one woman than the other and/or have a better conversational connection with one of the women. The other woman will tend to be bored. As a result, she might block the interaction to some extent. Her impatience might shorten the conversation, not letting it develop long enough to end up in an asking out.

Another thing is that (grocery) shops are full of props you can use to open conversations. And actually, you don't have to go either direct or indirect. Unless you work in the store as an employee, women will realise that you're approaching them.

I tend to go more indirect in grocery stores and malls. Both indirect and direct can work in stores.

Going direct on streets, walking/hiking paths, or in parks is better than going direct in stores.

I use more indirect openers than direct openers.