Feeling like a lost cause - another perfect date turned sour

[PrettyBoyAJ]

When I date chicks I implement th 72 hour rule. This means that I have 3 dates with her and if she doesn't put out then she really interested. You need to have her at the crib by the third date. If your game is tight then you have no other problems.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Some girls just want "no strings attached" sex. What's the problem with that? Men can "be used" too, if we can call it this way. Next!

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Alex: Another good point. These girls come on with incredible zeal - then back away once they get too close. I've experienced it, too. They could also be unfamiliar with someone who shows interest and affection. They play the role of the pursuer - then don't know what to do once they catch someone. Abuse and neglect is love to them.

The warning signs are always there. Saying they're afraid of getting close, a history of bad relationships, trust issues, being burned by those they get close to, not having people care, etc. These are all red flags, but we tend to look at them as white knight enablers. Mistake.

Bpds are famous for doing this but it doesnt mean they're all Borderline...

 

[floydb25]

Some girls just want "no strings attached" sex. What's the problem with that? Men can "be used" too, if we can call it this way. Next!

This is very true. I think its our conditioning that leads us to believe that all women are looking for relationships. As well, because they CLAIM to be. So, we act the part - thinking its what they want. But, its usually just a means of putting themselves in a positive light - akin to wanting a nice guy. Women love to protect their image, and not appear as being *****es or sluts. Actions over words. Never assume, believe, or excuse anything. Always pay attention to who they are, and focus on the facts.

 

[st_99]

Never assume, believe, or excuse anything. Always pay attention to who they are, and focus on the facts.

True.

For whatever reason there a lot of guys and girls out there that have a
hard time accepting certain facts, like they can beat or change the
reality to fit there desires.

Like a guy can know 100% sure he hooked up with a raging BPD slut but instead of just accepting that and maybe just enjoy the sex and leave it at that it turns into.... HE is different and she will be different with him. She will magically turn into relationship type and it will be just fine. I'm not sure why people do this.

 

[floydb25]

True.

For whatever reason there a lot of guys and girls out there that have a
hard time accepting certain facts, like they can beat or change the
reality to fit there desires.

Like a guy can know 100% sure he hooked up with a raging BPD slut but instead of just accepting that and maybe just enjoy the sex and leave it at that it turns into.... HE is different and she will be different with him. She will magically turn into relationship type and it will be just fine. I'm not sure why people do this.

Because they become infatuated, have their head up in their clouds, and believe everything they say - instead of paying attention to who they are. They focus on the claims - not the person making the claims.

Ex: if a girl is complaining about jerks, claiming nice girls finish last, etc AS she's treating everyone like crap, whoring herself, acting like a blithering ****tard, etc - they focus on what she says, thinking that's who she really is. So, they dig deep and try to find this nice, quality person they CLAIM to be - only to never find it, because it doesn't exist.

This is where a lot of confusion comes in. The guy believes and assumes too much - then goes ahead with excusing her poor behaviors - when she was never nice or innocent to begin with. Everything in front of him was always her. By the time he realizes she was a dumb ***** - when she was one all along - its already too late. He fell in love with a vision of who he thought she was, and how he wanted her to be - instead of accepting her at face value. The problem was always HER. She was never the misunderstood victim she potrayed herself as being. It was all right in front of him the whole time... All the evidence and warning signs.

I remember one guy in particular - who was dating a crazy *****. He focused on her good side, and tried to make her into that person all the time. He didn't realize that everything he saw - both good and bad - was her, and it was here to stay. He refused to believe it. He thought he could tame her. Lo and behold - nothing ever changed. She was still a crazy *****. 80% mean and 20% nice.

He also made the old-age mistake of sympathizing with her, viewing her as the victim, and not taking the red flags seriously enough. He focused on who she potrayed herself as being in the beginning - thinking that was really her - when it was just a charade. He didn't believe she was a crazy ***** - even though everyone told him she was. In his own words: he thought that when she started "acting" like a crazy lunatic - that she was just joking; testing him; seeing how genuine he was. But, it NEVER stopped - because that was the real her. All he ever talked about was how nice she was in the beginning.

I think people don't understand what's real and what's fake. They think the nice girl front that's put on in the beginning is real, and being a jerk is fake. They think being a jerk is just an act, and the good person they claim to be is real. Being bad is misunderstood, afraid, and good hiding. Focusing on potential that isn't even there. Believing too much BS.

I don't think most people even realize what a jerk IS. They see the bitterness, anger, hate, etc, and try to save the crazy *****. Not realizing that all of these issues are going to get dumped onto them. As well, jerks aren't evil monsters. Nobody is 100% jerk all of the time. There are good times to be had. That doesn't mean the bad times aren't real, or that this person isn't a jerk. As well, NOBODY views themselves as a jerk; everyone CLAIMS to be the nice girl victim. Nobody is a good judge of their own character; everyone is only seeing things from their perspective; and that's where the outside perspective comes in. Those involved with them don't usually have the best judgement, either. If everyone tells you she is trouble - she IS.

 

[Serg897]

Cheer up Jariel. At least you are finding rebound girls quite quickly - the first post you made on this thread was on Dec 3rd, less than a month later you had something solid going with another.

Examine both cases and see if you can find a common thread. Are you still subconsciously giving off vibes that indicate neediness, a desire for a relationship, lack of challenge, etc? The problem may be deeply rooted somewhere in your psyche.

I find it quite curious that these girls are comfortable breaking up with you via text. Part of the problem may be that you are texting too much. I never communicate too much with anyone via text, only very brief interactions (to set up a date, or whatever). If I want a real conversation I call.

I dont know, just throwing out ideas. Only you know all the details. Is there anything you could be doing that is communicating AFC vibes to them?

 

[Blue Phoenix]

NOBODY views themselves as a jerk; everyone CLAIMS to be the nice girl victim.

Correct. 1. Most people who cheat say the other deserved it. 2. Criminals who steal/kill/rape blame the victms saying they were naive. No one will admit they're at fault, women included. After all, men are all pigs right?

 

[Jaylan]

OP, don't be so hard on yourself.

I don't think it's your fault.

Maybe you fell in too deep, got attached too quickly or you were too much of a nice guy etc but it sounds like SHE is the one with issues. It's likely she got hurt in a previous relationship and now has commitment issues.

Don't fall into the trap of overanalysing things, blaming yourself 24/7, thinking you're not good enough and beating yourself up about it. Improve yourself because it makes you happy, not because of a fear of inadequacy.

^This.

Its all rather simple. Its quite possible that she just got in too deep and isnt ready for a guy to call her own.

This happened to me a month ago. I freaked out when I slept with a girl I really liked. It is what it is.

No need to over-think things. Just keep on moving and stop over analyzing things and thinking with PUA techniques all the time.

Like Rubato said on page one, just be Jariel.

EDIT: P.S. - Dont forget that sometimes even though the physical attraction might be there, she might not have saw you are her type for the long term. People do this sometimes and it sucks. And my most recent hookup seemed to have used me for sex even though I liked her a lot, so its a tough feeling. Just roll with the punches and dont get down on yourself. Eventually the right girl will turn up bro.

 

[Jaylan]

Honestly, this overanalysis is making my head spin.

I just wanted to write to you Jariel because you're definitely a righteous dude. Maybe you just haven't met the right chick yet. I know that sounds so goddamn.ed cliche but really you can sit here and like a scientist try and pick this thing apart but in the end you're never going to really know.

You keep acting as though it's all YOU -- "what is wrong with ME that she didn't want to keep going?"

Maybe you don't know her as well as you think and really, she's the one who has the issues. If anything you aren't playing mind games, you're bonding in a great way physically and mentally -- maybe some girls are scared away by the prospect of relationship -- but there are all sorts of women who are *looking* for a good man such as yourself.

Just keep doing what you are doing -- maybe hold back just a little more and force these chicks to come even further towards you.

I promise you buddy you have made incredible gains, you desire a healthy LTR connection and you will find a great woman. Just don't drive yourself into the dust in between, because it's NOT all you, people in general are just mostly crazy anyways.

When going in with the next one, think of holding back a little bit so she gets to discover Jariel a little more...don't make it so easy for her.

/edit/ ps, isn't it always darkest before dawn? You have been working dam.n hard to create a strong mind and body, and to be romantically and physically seductive...your hard work will pay off. Also consider some of these women who are crazy about you -- sometimes what we at first think we don't want, upon further discovery, can be a lot different than what we thought. Maybe they could give you that commitment you are wanting for awhile, perhaps they may not be enough of a challenge for YOU, but they might be loyal as hell.

^This.

Buddha is a wise one.

 

[Jariel]

When I date chicks I implement th 72 hour rule. This means that I have 3 dates with her and if she doesn't put out then she really interested. You need to have her at the crib by the third date. If your game is tight then you have no other problems.

Well a lot of these girls I end up fvcking on the first date, or 3rd at the latest. A few people suggested that maybe that's what I was doing wrong and I should perhaps take my time, but with this latest girl I took my time and got the same result (minus the sex).

I have no trouble getting sex, I just hoped for something a bit more long term. Not necessarily serious and heavy, but just someone to hang out with and enjoy days and nights out with.

I'm starting to think maybe I'm just one of those guys who girls just see as a lust object and little more. However, I'm starting to think maybe I should just make the most of it and start fvcking and using women for my own physical gratification.

Cheer up Jariel. At least you are finding rebound girls quite quickly - the first post you made on this thread was on Dec 3rd, less than a month later you had something solid going with another.

Very true. This is why I advocate plate spinning at all times. And you know what, I have a date Tuesday, another one Thursday, and a few others waiting in line. I've also started to rekindle something with an old flame recently, so I can't complain. With my track record it really doesn't pay to invest in one woman.

Examine both cases and see if you can find a common thread. Are you still subconsciously giving off vibes that indicate neediness, a desire for a relationship, lack of challenge, etc? The problem may be deeply rooted somewhere in your psyche.

That's the most confusing part. I did almost the opposite with this latest girl and the truth is I wasn't really feeling it so much. That said, I have a feeling she may have broke it off for different reasons to the other girls and that she's not comfortable with me being sexually forward. The last few days I started escalating the sex talk and she wasn't really responding. I find this scares off a number of women actually, especially if they're defensive about guys playing them for sex. But to be honest, this girl's lack of sexuality was one of the things that was putting me off her.

 

[Atom Smasher]

"In fact, one day I sent a text about wanting to do bad things with her and she got scared."

I keep telling you guys, texting is a dangerous game; a true minefield.

We see it over and over again here. Women will almost always embellish what you text with their imagination. They cannot stop themselves.

Once that happens, for her it is written in stone. It doesn't matter how well you "explain" your true motive. Deep down, in a part of her brain that she cannot access and alter, her original interpretation lives on and affects her future decisions. This is true even after she says, "Oh, now I understand" after your explanation. By then the damage is already done.

When it comes to something that has the slightest potential to scare her off, it's best to remain silent. You already had her in the bag, but you introduced an unecessary fear into her. Game over.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Texting will kill a relationship more quickly and effectively than anything else you can possible do in the early stages.

She should be guessing about you in your absense. You should be scarce. In this way, tension builds in her and she builds up all sorts of reason in her mind to want to see you. Introduce a fear and it's game over. This girl in particular sounds like she needed some careful handling due to her initial shyness.

When it's in the bag, leave it alone and keep her guessing and fantasizing. What happened was that you assumed too much form. At first, you need to be a vapor, a shadow. Nothing should be defined and little should be concretely spoken about. Let the anticipation she feels drive her toward you, this mysterious man. Only then is she free to allow herself to be free with you.

 

[Jariel]

Atom Smasher: That's a very enlightened post and definitely caught my attention. Texting has always been a big part of my successful seduction game and enabled me to build strong rapport and escalate sexual anticipation to a new level.

However, I think you're onto something in terms of post-seduction texting and I need to cut it out, or at least reduce it to a minimum. You're absolutely right about women forming their own perceptions and not being able to let go, even once proven wrong, and if I appear to come on too strong in just one text, then in her mind I may well appear needy.

I'm going to put this into action as of my next date.

 

[Jariel]

Incidentally, another of my bad habits in terms of texts is that I keep reassuring these girls. Because I hate being left hanging and I hate aloof behaviour, I try to avoid doing it to them. I get sucked into the whole "she's really sweet and she is sooo into me" mindset. So when they express how much they like me, say how much they enjoyed our date or how excited they are to see me again, I tend to respond in a reassuring way. Whereas I really need to push that empathy aside, let them wonder about me, let them worry about where they stand and if they will see me again.

I've reached the point now where I'm getting real pissed off at the petty indecisiveness of women that I'm feeling a lot more comfortable acting cold with them and a lot less concerned about screwing with their heads.

 

[WhitePimp]

I have the same issue Jariel. I either get the bang on the 1st or 2nd date and the girl is all over me, then I send out a retarded text or do the opposite and disappear, and the girl stops responding.

I'm very good on the dates but it's the in-between moments that really destroy my success.

Are you seriously looking for an LTR? I think these girls can sense we just want to use them for sex for a few weeks and then move on, and maybe you're putting out the same vibe. Once I get what I want (sex), my demeanor becomes very icy and standoffish and this has to trigger something in the girl's head that maybe I'm just not worth the effort.

 

[Dust 2 Dust]

At least you're spinning plates. A lot of guys in your situation would get rejected and mope around for weeks with no other options.

I had the same thing happen to me a while ago. I was seeing this woman for around a month. I kiss tested her on our first date so I knew her interest was good. We went on 3 dates and for the fourth date I invited her over to my place for dinner and a movie where I planned to escalate towards sex, but she disappeared before the date. No phone calls, returned phone calls, ignored my messages, nothing.

I have a few questions.

1. Do you go NC on these women after they break it off?

2. Do any of them ever try to get back into contact with you after calling it quits after a few dates?

 

[Jariel]

I have a few questions.

1. Do you go NC on these women after they break it off?

2. Do any of them ever try to get back into contact with you after calling it quits after a few dates?

Yeah, I always cut contact with them once they break it off. I'll send them a civil and indifferent message back such as, "No problem. All the best. x" or "No worries. It's probably for the best. Take care. x" and then just move on to another plate. In some cases I'll delete them from FB and totally forget them, but in some cases if she's shown me some respect or we still have a friendly vibe, I'll keep her on FB and we'll comment on each others statuses once in a while.

Some of them actually do come back. Just recently a girl contacted me to wish me a happy Christmas. We got talking back and forward and she started telling me what a great guy I am and how she missed talking to me. After a couple more texts, she told me she regretted passing me up when she had the chance and explained she just wasn't in the right mindset to date at that time. We ended up scheduling a date a week from now.

In fact, a number of them have said the same thing - that they were in a bad state of mind at the time or that they needed time to get over an ex.

 

[Serg897]

Some of them actually do come back. Just recently a girl contacted me to wish me a happy Christmas. We got talking back and forward and she started telling me what a great guy I am and how she missed talking to me. After a couple more texts, she told me she regretted passing me up when she had the chance and explained she just wasn't in the right mindset to date at that time. We ended up scheduling a date a week from now.

In fact, a number of them have said the same thing - that they were in a bad state of mind at the time or that they needed time to get over an ex.

This is why one must never, ever, grovel or beg or continue to chase in any way after a girl has dumped or otherwise rejected you. To do so establishes yourself as a loser and low value male in her mind and she will NEVER come back. If you just smile, walk away, and say "alright, take care" she may decide to come around after she realizes that her decision had absolutely no effect on you, and when she is in a different state of mind.

 

[TopGun2000]

Because they become infatuated, have their head up in their clouds, and believe everything they say - instead of paying attention to who they are. They focus on the claims - not the person making the claims.

Ex: if a girl is complaining about jerks, claiming nice girls finish last, etc AS she's treating everyone like crap, whoring herself, acting like a blithering ****tard, etc - they focus on what she says, thinking that's who she really is. So, they dig deep and try to find this nice, quality person they CLAIM to be - only to never find it, because it doesn't exist.

This is where a lot of confusion comes in. The guy believes and assumes too much - then goes ahead with excusing her poor behaviors - when she was never nice or innocent to begin with. Everything in front of him was always her. By the time he realizes she was a dumb ***** - when she was one all along - its already too late. He fell in love with a vision of who he thought she was, and how he wanted her to be - instead of accepting her at face value. The problem was always HER. She was never the misunderstood victim she potrayed herself as being. It was all right in front of him the whole time... All the evidence and warning signs.

I remember one guy in particular - who was dating a crazy *****. He focused on her good side, and tried to make her into that person all the time. He didn't realize that everything he saw - both good and bad - was her, and it was here to stay. He refused to believe it. He thought he could tame her. Lo and behold - nothing ever changed. She was still a crazy *****. 80% mean and 20% nice.

He also made the old-age mistake of sympathizing with her, viewing her as the victim, and not taking the red flags seriously enough. He focused on who she potrayed herself as being in the beginning - thinking that was really her - when it was just a charade. He didn't believe she was a crazy ***** - even though everyone told him she was. In his own words: he thought that when she started "acting" like a crazy lunatic - that she was just joking; testing him; seeing how genuine he was. But, it NEVER stopped - because that was the real her. All he ever talked about was how nice she was in the beginning.

I think people don't understand what's real and what's fake. They think the nice girl front that's put on in the beginning is real, and being a jerk is fake. They think being a jerk is just an act, and the good person they claim to be is real. Being bad is misunderstood, afraid, and good hiding. Focusing on potential that isn't even there. Believing too much BS.

I don't think most people even realize what a jerk IS. They see the bitterness, anger, hate, etc, and try to save the crazy *****. Not realizing that all of these issues are going to get dumped onto them. As well, jerks aren't evil monsters. Nobody is 100% jerk all of the time. There are good times to be had. That doesn't mean the bad times aren't real, or that this person isn't a jerk. As well, NOBODY views themselves as a jerk; everyone CLAIMS to be the nice girl victim. Nobody is a good judge of their own character; everyone is only seeing things from their perspective; and that's where the outside perspective comes in. Those involved with them don't usually have the best judgement, either. If everyone tells you she is trouble - she IS.

yeah i used to make such mistakes. now i am able to put my emotions aside and judge things based on facts.

 

[Nutz]

This is why one must never, ever, grovel or beg or continue to chase in any way after a girl has dumped or otherwise rejected you. To do so establishes yourself as a loser and low value male in her mind and she will NEVER come back. If you just smile, walk away, and say "alright, take care" she may decide to come around after she realizes that her decision had absolutely no effect on you, and when she is in a different state of mind.

While good advice, it's easier said than done.