Feeling like a lost cause - another perfect date turned sour

[Serg897]

Another thing that springs to mind is that I often text these women I like after the date, expressing my interest to meet up again, talking about how I had a good time or something reassuring. Whereas the women I'm not so keen on, I leave hanging. These are the ones who become obsessively interested. This coincides with what people here are saying about keeping that challenge alive in order to increase interest.

Bingo. This may be very significant.

 

[corrector]

But its hard not to act different, I think that is the lynchpin to this problem that I am well aware of. If we could act the same around ALL girls we date and f*ck, then we would have far more success in terms of them wanting to come back for more. We would be in control, not out of control.

That's spot on.

That's what I said before about "oneitis" and all of this learning to be successful with women in general. The issues that a beginner has with their "oneitis" rejecting them that leads them to become a PUA still raises it's ugly head when you find out that when you meet another version of a "oneitis" in a more advanced stage of the game, guess what? You still fail.

Yet, the advice on here is still the same like the beginner (i.e. get good with other women so you would be good with her too and won't fail. GFTOW - or something crazy like that so that this oneitis will lose appeal as you are getting tail). This time is treat her like other women you are not interested in, because obviously you are good with those women but not the recent incarnation of the "oneitis" since you act AFC with her.

The only problem is, that true inner AFC will eventually come out in some form or another and you'll end up losing her anyway. How can you help that? You believe she's your soul-mate and will accept you for her you are at some point, right? How long can you keep up a DJ facade -- eventually that will wear out and you'll learn the hard way if she really accepts your true inner AFC identity that you've learned to mask to be able to win her in the first place. Once you lose her you are back to square one. Let's say you do end up in an LTR with her, then how long will that LTR last? Until you are out-alphaed by another guy, or your inner AFC comes out to her and she loses respect and either dumps you or cheats on you?

Any game that works on another women that you used for ego boosting but didn't really like isn't going to translate to success for a woman that's not an ego-boost, but you really want because now you have "kyptonite".

 

[window]

here is your problem...

"She explained how she was not ready to share her life with someone"

why is she having to explain this after 1 or 2 dates and some casual sex ? pretty sure if you never bring up relationship chatter with a girl UNLESS she brings it first your whole game will change.

 

[st_99]

here is your problem...

"She explained how she was not ready to share her life with someone"

why is she having to explain this after 1 or 2 dates and some casual sex ? .

i think thats a good point and observation.

 

[floydb25]

Corrector: That's the way it works. They want to know the real you, and what not - just not all at once, too soon. It's the chase and challenge that excites them initially, and keeps them attracted - to want to KNOW more. You have to break the dating phase to get there - not bypass it, and enter relationship mode right away. The infatuation phase is key to getting to the relationship phase... You have to attract them for that to happen. You have to give yourself a chance to show them the different aspects of your personality. You can't do this if you screw up too soon.

You are going to reach the comfort stage eventually. If they lose interest after that - then they're not worth keeping around, and are probably addicted to the chase. But, you wont be too attached when that happens, which is a huge positive. You'll also be weeding them out, thinking with your head, etc. It prevents you from getting hurt, and attracts them at the same time. Everyone wins.

Of course, there are no guarantees, and no one-way ticket to success. You're still going to have problems, not going to attract everyone, etc. That's life. But, you will have much more success by adapting these traits and techniques. You'll also have more time to show the fun aspects of your personality. Just don't take it too seriously and build up expectations too soon. That's recipe for disaster.

 

[Jariel]

why is she having to explain this after 1 or 2 dates and some casual sex ? pretty sure if you never bring up relationship chatter with a girl UNLESS she brings it first your whole game will change.

I totally agree and this is a rule I abide by quite strictly. In fact, I never said a word about relationships or moving forward and I realise it was her who did most of this.

She was the one who suggested I go and watch a film with her, after I suggested a more casual drink out. She invited me to stay the night and suggested we go to bed and cuddle. She also told me as we were lying together, "I really like you" and then tried to take it back as she thought it might scare me off. She also told me how her best friend will really like me. And what's more, it was her who text first after the date to suggest we meet again. I forgot to mention that she also took a photo of us together that night.

So I'm starting to think maybe this notion of us getting too heavy was not my doing, but it was actually her who built it up this way in her mind. While I was thinking we could meet up once a week perhaps, I'm guessing she was thinking we would be spending most nights together and getting full on. That would scare me off if I thought that to be honest.

The one thing I do take responsibility for was the sex, which I initiated. But that's what a guy is meant to do, right? And I have no regrets about that at all.

 

[Jariel]

Following from that last post, I've just remembered something else. She wanted us to give each other love bites (hickeys) on our necks. I remember thinking this was bad idea and quickly changed the subject. She did leave marks on my inner thigh and my shoulder though.

The more I think about it the more I realise how heavy she was perceiving things. I really should've pulled back more, but I guess I got caught up in the moment.

 

[Desdinova]

The more I think about it the more I realise how heavy she was perceiving things. I really should've pulled back more, but I guess I got caught up in the moment.

The game is the most difficult to play when the woman seems like an absolutely fantastic match for you whether it be looks-wise, personality-wise, or both. You MUST play the game at the beginning of the 'relationship' in order to make the situation appear that her IL is greater than yours (even if it really isn't)

Whenever I get involved with a woman for a lengthy period, I keep my eyes open for a certain level of neediness on her part. Once I see it, then I know that it's okay to give her a little more rope and show her a bit more interest and attention.

Holding back when you're incredibly attracted is difficult as hell, but when you realize how well it works when it comes to keeping the woman, you force yourself to do it. You NEED to make her chase you a bit and have her feel like you're still not in total reach.

Little by little, you give her more rope and become more within her reach. Once you've been together for a couple of months (or longer), then you have investment on your side. She will be much less willing to drop you when you have time, emotion, and memories invested into the relationship. But remember, that doesn't mean you can slack off. You STILL need to do the things that made her attracted to you in the first place. You still need to be confident, funny, interesting, and exciting. If you quit doing this, then the entire foundation of her interest will be lost and she'll go off to find someone else who has those traits.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Honestly, this overanalysis is making my head spin.

I just wanted to write to you Jariel because you're definitely a righteous dude. Maybe you just haven't met the right chick yet. I know that sounds so goddamn.ed cliche but really you can sit here and like a scientist try and pick this thing apart but in the end you're never going to really know.

You keep acting as though it's all YOU -- "what is wrong with ME that she didn't want to keep going?"

Maybe you don't know her as well as you think and really, she's the one who has the issues. If anything you aren't playing mind games, you're bonding in a great way physically and mentally -- maybe some girls are scared away by the prospect of relationship -- but there are all sorts of women who are *looking* for a good man such as yourself.

Just keep doing what you are doing -- maybe hold back just a little more and force these chicks to come even further towards you.

I promise you buddy you have made incredible gains, you desire a healthy LTR connection and you will find a great woman. Just don't drive yourself into the dust in between, because it's NOT all you, people in general are just mostly crazy anyways.

When going in with the next one, think of holding back a little bit so she gets to discover Jariel a little more...don't make it so easy for her.

/edit/ ps, isn't it always darkest before dawn? You have been working dam.n hard to create a strong mind and body, and to be romantically and physically seductive...your hard work will pay off. Also consider some of these women who are crazy about you -- sometimes what we at first think we don't want, upon further discovery, can be a lot different than what we thought. Maybe they could give you that commitment you are wanting for awhile, perhaps they may not be enough of a challenge for YOU, but they might be loyal as hell.

 

[pete101]

Once again I'm left feeling confused and hopeless. It's the same story with me every time. I meet a girl I like, her interest is scolding hot, everything goes flawlessly, then out of nowhere she loses interest.

The most recent case, I met a girl while at work. She showed a lot of interest and volunteered her number. We exchanged texts and chatted on the phone and really seemed to click, so we met for a drink. We had amazing chemistry, her interest was very high and she seemed so warm and affectionate. We kissed and she cuddled upto me as I walked her to her car. The following week she continued texting me with even higher interest, talking about how excited she was to see me again and invited me for a cosy night in at her house.

The second date was even better than the first. We kissed and cuddled up on the couch, conversation flowed easily, interest was high and she invited me to stay the night. She suggested she wasn't ready to have sex, but we cuddled up in bed, talked, listened to music. We started kissing and it escalated, and we ended up having wild sex through the night. She climaxed many times and was most definitely satisfied. She even dressed up for me. We went to sleep spooning and I felt her kiss me a couple of times through the night. I woke up with her lying on my chest, with her arms wrapped round me.

I had to leave early that morning, but we kissed goodbye and all was good. She text me later to say she'd really like to see me again the following week. We exchanged a few texts later, then the next day she sent me a rejection. She explained how she was not ready to share her life with someone...well, you know the typical rejection speeches.

I really liked this girl so it was a painful one. Rejection is a hard enough thing to deal with, but when it keeps on happening so suddenly with no evident reason, it really leaves me feeling hopeless. It's not like these girls start with low interest - it's usually very high IL to nothing, literally overnight.

No matter what I do, I can’t break out of this cycle. I've tried adapting, self improvement, playing cool, being a jerk, being romantic, you name it. My confidence is at an all time high, I'm in great shape and attract a lot of women. Every time I think I’ve got it right, I end up back at square one wondering what is wrong with me.

I would say maybe I just have no long term appeal. Maybe I'm just the sort of guy women see as a sex object, and yet there are many women I'm not that into who do want me for more and will often pursue me obsessively.

I've been playing the field for the past 2 years, had fvck buddies and dated a lot of women, but I've reached a point where I want more than that. I'm just totally lost and feel like sh!t right now.

you mentioned you exchanged a few texts after she said she wanted to see you the following week.. in more detail what exactly did you say?

you may have let your guard down in those texts and responded too quickly and come across as too needy/clingy and her interest plummeted cos she knew she had you. reason i know is i've been a scenario like this before and let my guard down.

or possibly she got back with her ex-bf and are going to try to work things out. typical BS.

 

[Jariel]

Holding back when you're incredibly attracted is difficult as hell, but when you realize how well it works when it comes to keeping the woman, you force yourself to do it. You NEED to make her chase you a bit and have her feel like you're still not in total reach.

Little by little, you give her more rope and become more within her reach.

Very well put and this really does ring true. I find with each of these girls, their interest is incredibly high to begin with so I often let my guard down...probably too much. With this latest girl everything seemed so perfect and she was into me just as much as I was into her. It felt refreshing to be able to show each other warmth and affection, to compliment each other sincerely and I guess I got complacent, posing no challenge at all.

Now that time has passed, I can see we got way too heavy way too soon. I've always like the analogy of seduction as a volume slider. Turn it up too far too soon and it comes as a shock and is too loud for comfort. Well this is exactly what we did and she got spooked. It was only our second date and we spent it in bed acting like a new couple.

 

[Jariel]

Honestly, this overanalysis is making my head spin.

You keep acting as though it's all YOU -- "what is wrong with ME that she didn't want to keep going?"

I know, overanalysis is rarely a good thing, but it's really driving me crazy because it keeps happening in this same exact pattern and I feel if I don't find an answer I'm destined to keep failing.

If anything you aren't playing mind games, you're bonding in a great way physically and mentally -- maybe some girls are scared away by the prospect of relationship

I believe you're right. In retrospect I have obviously a lot going for me and good seduction skills to build the kind of rapport I've had with these girls and get them into bed, but perhaps you are right and these girls just get too scared by the thought of anything long term...or by the fact that everything got so heavy so soon, as I said in the post above.

When going in with the next one, think of holding back a little bit so she gets to discover Jariel a little more...don't make it so easy for her.

Thanks mate! I will do.

 

[Jariel]

you mentioned you exchanged a few texts after she said she wanted to see you the following week.. in more detail what exactly did you say?

you may have let your guard down in those texts and responded too quickly and come across as too needy/clingy and her interest plummeted cos she knew she had you. reason i know is i've been a scenario like this before and let my guard down.

or possibly she got back with her ex-bf and are going to try to work things out. typical BS.

I kept them fairly cool to be fair. She text me a few hours after I left that morning saying she had a lovely time and we should definitely do it again. I replied just saying I'd like that and I'll let her know when I'm free the following week. We didn't exchange that many texts after that, but she text me later than night to say goodnight and this is where I might've made a mistake. I replied saying "It's too bad we're in separate beds tonight".

I don't think the text itself did too much harm. I think it was most likely the overall experience and how it all happened so fast. We were only on our 2nd date and I have to admit, we were behaving like we were already a couple.

I remember being in this position a few times myself in the past. It all seems so good at the time, then afterwards the thought of being in a new relationship has scared me off.

When she sent me her rejection text, I replied quite casually and friendly just telling her it was cool and we can just chalk it upto a one night stand. I told her I had fun and wished her all the best.

 

[pete101]

I kept them fairly cool to be fair. She text me a few hours after I left that morning saying she had a lovely time and we should definitely do it again. I replied just saying I'd like that and I'll let her know when I'm free the following week. We didn't exchange that many texts after that, but she text me later than night to say goodnight and this is where I might've made a mistake. I replied saying "It's too bad we're in separate beds tonight".

I don't think the text itself did too much harm. I think it was most likely the overall experience and how it all happened so fast. We were only on our 2nd date and I have to admit, we were behaving like we were already a couple.

I remember being in this position a few times myself in the past. It all seems so good at the time, then afterwards the thought of being in a new relationship has scared me off.

When she sent me her rejection text, I replied quite casually and friendly just telling her it was cool and we can just chalk it upto a one night stand. I told her I had fun and wished her all the best.

how quickly did you reply tho.. like immediately? cos tbh despite you getting those text of good night or she would like to meet again.. even though they're good they're also tests! i had the exact thing 2 years ago and i replied fairly swiftly.. remember anxiety and insecurity is what increases her lust for you. i'd have waited till at least the morning before resonding, the good night text i would have just ignored.. she was testing to see if you were sitting around at her beck and call. stupid i know, the text itself from her is good cos she's thinking about you.. but never mistake it not being a test.

also maybe the response of 'shame we're in separate beds' might have made her feel like you were just using her for sex when actually your intention was for something more.. she probably thought it over and felt guilty.. who knows, i over analyze things, all i know is i've done the exact same thing you've done and though it's good that they're texting us and thinking about us, it's not ok for us to respond swiftly and demonstrating our interest.

 

[MaddXMan]

I can totally relate.

I think I am too colored by my past successful relationships.

Like when I met the woman I married...we has sex in the first few dates. Just totally clicked like that. Stayed together long term then got married. Sure we got divorced later but the marriage lasted 8 years.

Other LTR relationships started the same way...with an intense clicking that got physical early.

But now...when things get physical early, and we seem to click hard...the woman loses interest and I get dumped.

The difference between then and now, between when successful LTR's that started like that worked for me? I was younger, in my 20's.

I'm 44 now and seems like relationships just can't start like that anymore.

Seems like that kind of early experiences and expectations are ingrained in me. All I know it does not work like that now, and hasn't for a long time.

 

[Jariel]

Pete: I held back from texting straight back and left it a couple of hours. Perhaps I should've held back longer, but I think she'd already made her decision. However, on past dates, then I have definitely been guilty of texting back too soon and too frequently, i.e. immediately after the date on the train home. I guess I get too complacent when a date has gone so well.


Maddxman: That's interesting that you're noticing this. I didn't really get much action in my early to mid 20s, but the lasting relationships I've had did develop gradually. In fact, my ex girlfriend and I didn't have sex until a month after dating.

Yet, none of the girls I've slept with on a first or 2nd date have worked out for me, despite the intensity and the amazing chemistry. Although it's perhaps not so much about the sex as it is about the cuddling and late night conversations...well, the more romantic stuff.

Perhaps I need to slow things down a lot more in future and let it build more gradually and comfortably. I guess I've just conditioned myself into the PUA mentality, to think of sex as a goal and to go rushing in.

 

[st_99]

Part of me thinks this is all just plain nuts.

I'm a believer in if you approach women with the right mindset, as in you're the prize, self esteem, no fear of loss, and all that good stuff (i know it sounds cliche, but i think its real), then it almost doesn't matter what you say or do because it will just come out right. The female will sense all this somehow and she will behave different.

Jariel, are you fearing loss when you're dating the good looking or interesting ones? Are you already expecting for something to go wrong after you have sex with these women?

 

[floydb25]

I know, overanalysis is rarely a good thing, but it's really driving me crazy because it keeps happening in this same exact pattern and I feel if I don't find an answer I'm destined to keep failing.

Alright, this begs the question on if you're too outcome dependant, and showing signs of desperation. That happens when you have this kind of mindset. It's just natural to come off this way.

The best thing to do is just not care on whether you are doing things right, if this is working, if you're gonna fail, etc. When you think like this, you come off the same way in your behavior. So, when you come on strong, they're thinking you're desperate and pushy - because you want to make things work. You don't want to fail, and that's a problem.

You have to not care if you fail. Expectations shouldn't exist for the first few months. You're just meeting a new person. Don't think too far ahead, and certainly don't worry. Just chill, and make sure they are living up to your standards. Don't do things because you want to win them over, because they can pick up on that, too.

 

[Aaron B]

Perhaps I need to slow things down a lot more in future and let it build more gradually and comfortably. I guess I've just conditioned myself into the PUA mentality, to think of sex as a goal and to go rushing in.

You will benefit from allowing the emotions to build gradually and comfortably.

The sex can happen very early and not interfere with that.

They aren't mutually exclusive.

Sexual intimacy and being close emotionally are not the same thing.

Girls want relationships with guys who don't NEED to be in a relationship and don't CARE if it "works out" or not. They want these relationships with guys who are willing to open their hearts to her gradually over a period of time, not someone who is so invested in having a relationship RIGHT NOW and wants to get very close to her emotionally in a short period of time.

Girls will still go along with the "too close too soon" but then they will often lose interest. Worse yet, the crazy ones will stick around to help you make your life miserable.

 

[Jariel]

I guess I picked up a touch of the old post-rejection paranoia, but now that time has past I'm starting to take it at face value.

The fact is, if there was really something wrong with me we would never have had the night we had together. I now believe it's her who, by her own admission, has the issue, not wanting make changes to her life. Maybe I could've been more aloof, less of a gentleman and so on, but then we probably wouldn't have had the night we did and maybe she'd still have reached the same conclusion.

She had been with the same guy for 8 years since school, and then was in another relationship for 2 years, and doesn't take relationships or sex lightly. I believe she only invited me to stay and had sex with me because she considered me relationship material. In her mind this was a really big deal...so big that it scared her off.

But you have to take the highs with the lows, and even though it sucks now, I'm glad we had such a great experience together. I'm even glad I was able to let my guard down and feel the affection, rather than it being another meaningless fvck.

But as you guys have pointed out, perhaps in future I just need to pay more attention to my post-seduction game, give them space, withhold my texts and attention while they're thinking things over.